MTG Salvation

I'm wondering if a deck based around Black Vise and the like is vintage playable. I know that turn 1 Lotus, land, 4x Vise is pretty dangerous. But is it enough to build a vintage deck around? Or is this already an existing archetype?
Just wondering.
-BPC

Please take the time to add more content to your thread starters. Asking about a single card is legitimate, but please provide some of your own analysis. Just stating that a statistical anomaly could conceivably be "dangerous" is not sufficient, and requesting a decklist is in violation of vintage forum rules. No further action will be taken on this post due to how drastic and recent the new vintage policies are, but for future reference, posts in the vintage forums will necessitate some analysis and direct the intended conversation. Threads are for the purpose of developing the metagame and our understanding of the metagame, and a poor OP will lead to a poor discussion.

The closest deck you'd want would a a stax variant (mishra's workshop to 3 black vises is a lot more reliable than lotus to 3 black vises). Stax also has numerous cards that make casting spells difficult -- sphere of resistance, trinisphere, thorn of amethysts, so that the opponent can't get rid of the cards in his hand.

However, as far a kill conditions go, 4 black vises isn't nearly fast enough, even if you can plop them down on turn 1. You'd rather, say, play a trinisphere on turn 1 than 3 black vises. That way, it will help prevent you from suddenly dying should your opponent have some method of comboing on turn 1. Once control has been established, stax will generally want kill conditions that will kill faster than the measly 3 damage per turn that a black vise can deal. juggernaut, for example, swings in for 5, and painter's servant + grindstone can deplete the library in 1 turn.

edit: mill->grind; thanks thefreakaccident

I tried black vise in an interesting deck I made right after it got unrestricted. If you run it in a deck with 4 howling mines and something like 20 to 24 bolts+fireblasts with other supplemental/useful burn, it can be quite deadly. However, it's best as a sort of metagame deck. If you're full of gush variants, it's actually quite deadly, provided you can resolve the vise t1 or t2. Other than that, It's just a variant of howling burn that does alright in a relatively unpowered meta. I did do well vs. some powered decks, but if they can empty their hand, you're better off boarding it out for something like smash to smithereens or other, more useful hate. (I'm finding pyrostatic pillar maindeck quite hilarious, for instance). I'm sure many of the more experienced vintage players would disagree, though, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

--welt

@mondo- I hope you meant grindstone... millstone is absolutely worthless...

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