MTG Salvation

I guess I should start this out with a "why I am doing this" blurb. I used to play magic many years ago when I was in the 4th grade (~1997), I didn't understand a lot of the intricate interactions and raw power cards had except a few namely: Priest of Titania, High Tide and Dark Ritual. Every deck I made (which back then in my playgroup of 9 year olds wasn't restricted by 4 of and all that) started with all my copies of one of those cards because fast mana into my awesome Leviathan, B.F.M. (Big Furry Monster) and Fireball was -awesome-. Fast forward to Grand Prix San Jose 2012 and I unloaded my standard rares to a vendor in exchange for cash and some Vintage "good stuff". I played in a couple of Legacy side events there and did quite well (1st in one, 2-1 drop the other), but I have never played in the Vintage world. One legacy deck I always liked however was High Tide, but never put all the pieces together to run a competitive version, so I looked on these forums and didn't see a Vintage version of the deck. So I am here hoping that a couple other people are in the same boat as me and would really like to develop a Vintage High Tide build.

My Goals for the Deck:

• Follow the Banned/Restricted list of Vintage.
• Be able to win games, even if it isn't the most competitive deck in the world.
• Create a fairly consistant and tuned deck.
• Most importantly be a deck I have fun building, showing people and playing with friends.

To the left of the text is my initial build. I hope my introduction shows that I am humble enough to acknowledge that I am not in any way shape or form the greatest deck builder. The basic premise I had while building this was the three cards I linked as images at the top of this post: Frantic Search, High Tide, and Gush. I then immediately tried to put four Merchant Scrolls into the deck, only to see it firmly on the restricted list, so only one made it in. After the Merchant Scroll, I decided to splash Black for Yawgmoth's Will, Demonic Tutor, and Vampiric Tutor. Green is splashed mainly for Fastbond to combo with Gush and adding additional drawn lands to the field while comboing, but also Regrowth as a means to recover spent cards. At this point I wasn't quite sure which "untap" effects I wanted in the deck outside of Frantic Search, but I knew I wanted in the ball park of 7 of the effects total and settled with two Turnabout and one Time Spiral. I am not sure if that is correct, or my fairly arbitrary number of seven total is correct either. I thought about Cloud of Fairies and Snap like the Spring Tide decks used to run, but I figured I'd roll with what I listed to gold fish with. I then added some "draw 3" effects in Meditate, Ancestral Recall and Ideas Unbound, to add gas while attempting to combo out. I then added two Cunning Wish and a mini-version of a wish board like the legacy version runs. Instead of a third Cunning Wish, I took Stephen Menendian's idea of Research/Development and Mind's Desire. I added a very basic mana base, which quite possibly should include basic Islands, but once again I am not sure. Talking about the land base, I considered adding Library of Alexandria. I had an instant debate in my head if the power of drawing an additional card per turn it is in play outweighed the benefit of being Island land type during the High Tide combo turn, but once again I am unsure. The same argument to me happened for the Mox, does the early mana acceleration outweigh the fact it is not an Island? Should I run all the Moxen, or the three on Color? How about Black Lotus? To answer this, I decided on just the Sapphire, mainly because I own it but also because I feel it is the most relevant. During the combo turn, it adds a free storm and 1 mana. On the early game it can get me that extra mana needed for one of my 2 mana outs to not miss a land drop (Demonic Tutor, Regrowth, etc.). I would never bash Black Lotus, but I feel that this deck can run just as optimally with just Mox Sapphire for accelerate in power form as when we are comboing the 3 additional mana is likely less relevant than the consistant 1 mana ramp Saphire provided during the set up turn(s). This is my thought process though, and very likely incorrect. I hope this wall of text somewhat explains my card choices while constructing this deck. To try and goldfish it here is the current deck on tapped out: link

You will be wanting more Flusterstorm and Mental Misstep in the main, and possibly more in the side.

Regrowth and Ideas Unbound probably aren't good enough. Two more Preordain, maybe even Timetwister.

To further increase the power of your d7s and frantics, running more moxen (at least Jet and Emerald) and of course Lotus are good ideas. Test petal as well.

You do not need three tendrils in the board. You only need one unless you plan to sideboard it in at some point, in which case two is your upper limit.

You'll want one mainboard win-con that isn't Cunning Wish and something to fight stax main, like Hurkyl's Recall.

You do want Library. It and Search/spiral are BFFS. You might also want Tolarian Academy, especially if you play more artifacts. And you should.

Quote from Gaka

You will be wanting more Flusterstorm and Mental Misstep in the main, and possibly more in the side.

I like this suggestion, but being a combo storm deck how many counters do you want to actually run? More than 8 in a constructed deck is usually a poor idea, but this is an archetype (storm) I don't have experience in and a meta I have never played in before. I would assume additional counters should be Flusterstorms.

Quote from Gaka

Regrowth and Ideas Unbound probably aren't good enough. Two more Preordain, maybe even Timetwister.

In gold fishing Regrowth has often been a dead card, mainly because when it would become useful I draw into Yawgmoth's Will and it is irrelevant at that point.
Ideas Unbound though has been excellent. When you are casting the spells like this and Meditate, there isn't going to be an end step. With that in mind 2 mana draw 3 and 3 mana draw 4 are fantastic. The only better mana to card draw ratios I can think of is Ancestral Recall, and Time Twister which eats your graveyard right around when you'd like to be casting the Will. The negative I just wrote is often why I don't cast Time Spiral too, because when it becomes at it's best will outclasses it. Time Spiral has the added benefit of generating mana in this deck though, and has been an out for me a couple times.

Quote from Gaka

To further increase the power of your d7s and frantics, running more moxen (at least Jet and Emerald) and of course Lotus are good ideas. Test petal as well.

Why? On my combo turn (usually 2-4) I generate enough mana to hard cast multiple eldrazi if I wanted. The generation of mana comes from having 2 islands in play, after that you practically can not have mana issues unless you are facing strong hate or have really poor draws. I don't think this is the deck for Lotus or the Moxen, unless you add a Tinker into Blightsteel Colossus for plan b.

Quote from Gaka

You do not need three tendrils in the board. You only need one unless you plan to sideboard it in at some point, in which case two is your upper limit. You'll want one mainboard win-con that isn't Cunning Wish

The 3 Tendrils and 1 Brain Freeze is for when you build storm and cast Mind's Desire you use Research/Development (Research Side) to bring them all in to your deck. Mind's Desire then finishes it off. So there is Research and Cunning Wish (unless you are suggesting a plan b, like Blightsteel/Tinker+power 9)

Quote from Gaka

and something to fight stax main, like Hurkyl's Recall.

I could see the Rebuild from the sideboard taking Regrowth's place pretty easily.
If you used the Cloud of Faeries + Snap, then Echoing Truth is probably worth two or so slots in the maindeck as well.

Quote from Gaka

You do want Library. It and Search/spiral are BFFS. You might also want Tolarian Academy, especially if you play more artifacts. And you should.

I will probably make a proxy version with the full moxen and academy, but I really don't understand how it will be better at all other than a tinker package as plan b. I think that would ultimately convert this from a storm high tide deck to a bastardized blue control with a combo wincon. I don't know yet though.

Thanks for the comment, especially about the insight on what you believe will be weak links as I identify cards to cut out for answers to answers.

i think Mental Misstep is particularly useful in High Tide decks, since you want to protect your own Tides from your opponent's Missteps (in addition to the general utility of the card).

i would second Gaka's suggestion of adding more artifacts and tolarian academy, since it has such good synergy with untap effects. candelabra of tawnos might be worth a try, and i'd probably also go for tinker and blightsteel colossus. you might also want a memory jar if you're doing that, to turn your tinker into a potential draw-7

Timetwister and Tinker-->Memory Jar are definitely plays you want access to. I would also max the Time Spirals. Winning with High Tide generally involves untapping your lands over and over again until you have enough mana to do whatever you want.

Candelabra is also a huge source of mana. It isn't necessary, some High Tide decks choose not to run it, but it's usually preferred, especially when you're running Tinker/Jar, Tolarian Academy, and more Moxen (which, as Gaka said, you should).

Gaka's point wasn't that 3 Tendrils was a bad wincon, it's that it was too many. You can easily Research for 1 or 2 Tendrils and maybe a Brain Freeze and kill them.

I also echo the sentiment that you want a non-Wish wincon in the maindeck. Blue Sun's Zenith would be preferred, since you can target yourself mid-combo to draw more cards, or kill your opponent. It is also a better Plan A than Brainfreeze, since you will likely face Oath decks at some point.

I think Research/Development needs to go; when you combo off you should be able to simply Cunning Wish for a single wincon and win.

For reference, here's the High Tide deck that my friend will be running at our next Vintage event:



Right now the changes I'm thinking about making are: either Spell Pierces or MM maindeck, another Island or 2, and/or one or two more Cunning Wish.

But it runs smooth, and I think there are some ideas here that Gaka pointed out that you should at least try.

I have a few questions for the list you provided

• Why one Frantic Search main, and 1 in the side? With running black, isn't Yawgmoth's Will the best card you have access to? It has been for me in my run throughs and the synergy between the two has been pretty awesome, and one of the big reasons I do not rely on a Time Spiral / Time Twister effects as much. I guess graveyard hate is a reasoning, but is that the reason?
• What is the point of the Time Vault / Voltaic Key combo? I originally thought as a plan b when I saw the Tinker, but there is no big robot (Inkwell Leviathan or Blightsteel Colossus) in the deck to take advantage of the turns if the storm plan has been hated out. Is it just to take more turns to play 1 land per turn if you did not get Fastbond, or it was removed/countered?
• Is Mana Drain an all star in this deck? I have four of those and the Time Vault, but I did not know if that would convert this more towards control list than a combo. I can see countering their spell then having some additional mana to cast Blue Sun's Zenith, Time Spiral and what not. Is that about what you use it for, and does that seem good enough?
• Is there a reason to run 3 Gush over 4?
• How has no graveyard hate been with Dredge and Oath existing? Dredge in stopping them, and Oath in winning with Brain Freeze while Emrakul, the Eons Torn and the like shuffling?

Quote from BlackVise

It's not my deck so don't take my answers as the answers, but I think I can answer two of those questions.

Frantic Search - One in the main deck to help with draws, the other in the sideboard as a target for Cunning Wish.

I meant why not 3 in the main and 1 in the board, or 4 in the main?

Quote from Wildfire393

Gush seems kind of counterproductive for a High Tide deck, as it makes your untap effects less potent.

Unless you have Fastbond out, then it generates mana.

Quote from inked

I have a few questions for the list you provided

• Why one Frantic Search main, and 1 in the side? With running black, isn't Yawgmoth's Will the best card you have access to? It has been for me in my run throughs and the synergy between the two has been pretty awesome, and one of the big reasons I do not rely on a Time Spiral / Time Twister effects as much. I guess graveyard hate is a reasoning, but is that the reason?
• What is the point of the Time Vault / Voltaic Key combo? I originally thought as a plan b when I saw the Tinker, but there is no big robot (Inkwell Leviathan or Blightsteel Colossus) in the deck to take advantage of the turns if the storm plan has been hated out. Is it just to take more turns to play 1 land per turn if you did not get Fastbond, or it was removed/countered?
• Is Mana Drain an all star in this deck? I have four of those and the Time Vault, but I did not know if that would convert this more towards control list than a combo. I can see countering their spell then having some additional mana to cast Blue Sun's Zenith, Time Spiral and what not. Is that about what you use it for, and does that seem good enough?
• Is there a reason to run 3 Gush over 4?
• How has no graveyard hate been with Dredge and Oath existing? Dredge in stopping them, and Oath in winning with Brain Freeze while Emrakul, the Eons Torn and the like shuffling?

1 Frantic Search main is actually one less than I want, but I have a lot of trouble finding slots in this deck, and FS is card disadvantage. The untap effect is only good when I am already comboing off, so I forgo more FS in favor of more CA draw spells.

Yawgmoth's Will is not that great in this deck. I know that's surprising, seeing as it's easily in the top 3 most broken cards ever, but it simply isn't at its best in High Tide. Why? Because the deck runs 5 shuffle effects that are pretty much necessary to resolve if you want to win. If you cast Yawgwin before the shuffle effects, you don't get back cards that you want. If you cast it after the shuffle effects, there's nothing in the graveyard. So, it ends up being much better to just cast more Time Spirals, get back your Recall, High Tides, Black Lotus, countered wincon, etc., and untap some lands.

The point of the VaultKey combo is to be the best wincon in Vintage. Infinite turns means that I can combo out whenever I feel like it, and it costs 3 colorless mana across two cards that can both be Tinker'd out. There is literally no reason outside of "budget non-proxy meta" to not run these two cards. Also, Key untaps Candelabras, which is nontrivial. It is not Plan A, but it is cheap, compact, and wins upon resolution. And sometimes, you just have Island, Lotus, VaultKey, Force, [blue card] in your 7.

Mana Drain is indeed an all star. Countering a combo piece or Thalia and then having extra mana for Time Spiral is solid. You can't combo out with too few Islands anyway, so your combo is limited by ither the number of turns, or finding Fastbond. Either way, you aren't going off turn 1-2 unless you have the godhand, so you have to play the control game until turn 3 or 4.

3 Gush instead of 4 is for a reason similar to FS. Gush is a bit clunky for the combo when you are using it early to dig; you need your Islands, so Gushing slows you down (though Gushing in response to Wasteland feels good). It also weakens untap effects as Wildfire noted. Unless you find Fastbond, or are already going off and just hardcast it, multiple Gushes are clunky.

The way that you win against Oath decks with Brainfreeze is by not playing Brainfreeze. This deck's Plan A is Blue Sun's Zenith, which gets around Emrakul quite handily.

Dredge is a bit trickier. I would like some hate for them, probably Ravenous Trap, but for now the plan is to counter crucial spells (Dread Return).

I recently opened a box of Fallen Empires and I felt like making a deck from one of the two playable cards in the set. This is my first attempt at a deck and it also seems like a way to get into vintage without needing all Power 9 because the deck lacks 3-4 of 5 moxen. I was looking at a UG build using the Cloud of Faeries/Snap to untap and Xantid Swarm as protection from disruption. This is what I've got so far:

You really want to play Frantic Search over Ideas Unbound. It makes the deck really consistent.

Probably also want some Turnabouts? The card is pretty killer in Legacy High Tide.

You probably want more than one Rebuild to fight workshop decks.

Why no Candelabra of Tawnos? It's pretty good in Legacy and I imagine it would be the same in Vintage especially if you play Tolarian Academy. Why do you play the academy? You seem pretty far from the minimal critical mass of artifacts and it doesn't play well with High Tide.

I think Hurkyl's Recall is better than Rebuild in the sideboard since you play so few artifacts and a single mana makes a difference against MUD.

Quote from varal

Why no Candelabra of Tawnos? It's pretty good in Legacy and I imagine it would be the same in Vintage especially if you play Tolarian Academy. Why do you play the academy? You seem pretty far from the minimal critical mass of artifacts and it doesn't play well with High Tide.

I think Hurkyl's Recall is better than Rebuild in the sideboard since you play so few artifacts and a single mana makes a difference against MUD.

I tried a Candelabra/power9/tolarian academy High Tide deck in a vintage tournament a month or so ago. It was absolutely terrible. I liked my original list far more, although it is still not good enough.

Frantic Search was very important and pretty much the only out to a Tangle Wire lock.

Another idea may be to go Bant, to have enlightened tutors. E-tutor finds fastbond, candelabra, and whatnot.

I also think Empty the Warrens is likely a better kill card than Tendrils. Empty can be cast off lower storm to "answer" Smokestacks where otherwise you would start to lose lands too quickly. Also less color heavy. Something to think about.