MTG Salvation

I know most storm decks in vintage run blue, but I'm really liking Winds of Change and Wheel of Fortune. Winds, I think might even be worth splashing into normal U/B versions because it's just crazy when you resolve Ad Nauseam. It has drawn me anywhere from 7-20 cards at once and allowed me to draw 45 cards total on a turn 2 kill along with Wheel. It's a really spectacular out when Ad Nauseam fails to set you up properly. I haven't been able to test it in a tournament yet, since there's not much of a vintage scene here, but so far, I have to wonder why it's not restricted. It's like a far more broken Timetwister since it costs 1 mana and lets you keep your graveyard for Yawgmoth's Win.

Quote from flaming infinity

I have to wonder why it's not restricted. It's like a far more broken Timetwister since it costs 1 mana and lets you keep your graveyard for Yawgmoth's Win.

You can't get card advantage from it directly. You'll always have one less card after it resolves than you did before you played it.

I'd say that has to be it.

I know, it generally sucks, but in Ad Nauseam decks, you draw all kinds of lands, disruption, and things that you can't use, anyway, so it trades all of that in for a huge chunk of cards at the price of 1 mana. It's not like card disadvantage is an issue in storm decks. All those rituals and lotuses are all card disadvantage unless you can recur them. Hell, storm could easily be the largest amount of card disadvantage in the history of competitive decks.

re: Winds of Change: Cards that are only good after resolving Ad Nauseam are not worth playing in Ad Nauseam decks.

winds of change, on the other hand, is exceptionally good at wrecking those wonderfully sculpted hands that blue decks like to get...

Quote from D00msday

re: Winds of Change: Cards that are only good after resolving Ad Nauseam are not worth playing in Ad Nauseam decks.

Normally, I'd agree, but in this case, it's very powerful (has consistantly drawn double digits worth of cards), very cheap at 1 mana, and has pulled off nearly every game that Ad Nauseam has failed to outright win. I'm not sure it's necessarily better than Angel's Grace, but it does come in a color with rituals and Wheel as well.

How are you holding a double-digit grip after casting Ad Nauseam and not being able to win from there? It's the very definition of a win-more card in this case.

Quote from D00msday

How are you holding a double-digit grip after casting Ad Nauseam and not being able to win from there? It's the very definition of a win-more card in this case.

As strange as it sounds, I've had tons of games where I resolve Ad Nauseam and don't have Tendrils (or a way to get Tendrils this turn) or enough cards to build my storm count, since I hit mostly lands and high cmc cards. Winds of Change pretty much always fixes that. Maybe I'm just really unlucky with Ad Nauseam, but it's been very useful for winning games I would have lost otherwise.

After only 1 test match, I came to dislike only 2 Tendrils main board, as the 3 point life chunks from Seething Song added up over time. 4 Tendrils also makes it into a safer Consultation target - not completely sold yet on including red, but I would cut the # of Songs down and add some Tendrils.

I already tried it with more Tendrils. I've ended up hitting it way too much off of Ad Nauseam and 4 life hurts quite a bit, especially for a card that I only want one of. I had 3 Ad Nauseam and 4 Tendrils at one point and I killed myself too many times. Sure, it would be safer for Consultation, but by the time I'm casting Consultation for Tendrils, I've already resolved Ad Nauseam and have the storm count, so I don't really care if it exiles 1/2 my library. That was a big part of why I went looking for other options and tried Winds of Change.

Quote from flaming infinity

I already tried it with more Tendrils. I've ended up hitting it way too much off of Ad Nauseam and 4 life hurts quite a bit, especially for a card that I only want one of. I had 3 Ad Nauseam and 4 Tendrils at one point and I killed myself too many times. Sure, it would be safer for Consultation, but by the time I'm casting Consultation for Tendrils, I've already resolved Ad Nauseam and have the storm count, so I don't really care if it exiles 1/2 my library. That was a big part of why I went looking for other options and tried Winds of Change.

But you have the chance to exile your Tendrils and just deck out. Seems bad.

Quote from flaming infinity

Normally, I'd agree, but in this case, it's very powerful (has consistantly drawn double digits worth of cards), very cheap at 1 mana, and has pulled off nearly every game that Ad Nauseam has failed to outright win. I'm not sure it's necessarily better than Angel's Grace, but it does come in a color with rituals and Wheel as well.

If you can't win after resolving ad nauseam in a Vintage deck, then chances are pretty good that your deck contains too many wasted cards like Winds of Change, because the game should be over as soon as your opponent says 'resolves' to AN.

I think you will find that this deck doesn't goldfish any faster than a pure black storm deck or, for that matter, a TPS deck, with considerably less disruption and protection for your combo.

There's a reason ANT decks don't place competitively in Vintage .. they're just too fragile. Combo without blue protection just isn't fast enough, they do a good job of restricting the things that can cause 70% 1st turn goldfishes.


Compare what you're getting to what TPS runs:

Stuff you have they dont:

Red Mana acceleration (which is slower than black mana accel and artifact mana)
Winds of Change / Wheel of Fortune
Ad Nauseam

Stuff they have that you don't:

2 alternate win conditions, one of which works through 3sphere etc (tinker/bot and Mind's Desire)
Blue card draw and tutoring (ancestral, brainstorm, gifts ungiven, fact or fiction, mystical tutor)
Ability to run Bob
Time Walk
Timetwister
Force of Will

Also, stuff TPS has that your deck simply should also have:

Yawgmoth's Bargain
Necropotence

You run basically 3 cards that cause your combo to initiate and go off (Ad Nauseam). TPS has 5-6 different paths to initiating its combo, including 3 draw engines that are superior to Ad Nauseam, and also Bob.


In fact, many TPS decks have run a volcanic island or two as well as Wheel of Fortune, so you can't even necessarily include that in the list of your RB perks.

The second deck has better draw, better combo protection, and maindeck win cons that are not hosed by Ethersworn Canonist and Spheres.

I understand that TPS is probably the hardest deck in Vintage to play (learning to master difficult singleton cards like FoF and Gifts, plus the draw7s), but its simply the best storm combo deck you can get, since its just as fast and a lot more resilient and a lot more able to disrupt other combo decks, like Oath.

Winds of Change isnt restricted because it sucks

By the way, the reason timetwister is restricted when Winds isn't is that 2 timetwisters would make your deck infinite: you'd always shuffle one back when casting the other, so without a way for people to rfg one of them, it would be impossible to deck.

thats to say nothing of how cool 1st turn timetwister on the play is: you basically force your opponent to mulligan to a possibly inferior hand, after getting some of your artifact mana on the table and refilling. Being able to do that reliably is GG.