MTG Salvation

Meandeck Ad Nauseam


ANT by Robert Maffei (1st Place, D-Day 3/15/09, 182 players)


Menedian's Meandeck Ad Nauseam Article: Link

Why was the old one deleted??? Grrr... anyways, I got 3rd place with this list in the last tournament I played it in a while ago.

Since then I've replaced Intuition and a land with the other 2 Dark Confidants, which I really like.
I don't really see how or why people run 4 Nauseams and 4 Tendrils. It's purely unnecessary and just greatly increases the risk you'll kill yourself off of Nauseam.
With my list, I never lose once I resolve an Ad Nauseam.

I like 4x Ad Nauseam because I absolutely want it as soon as possible, every game. Menendian's build has no Pacts, he says because the only thing they can protect is the Ad Nauseams. I wouldn't want to play this without them though, and I play 4x Bob too so the extra lifeloss from flipping (and playing) Thoughtseize instead is significant in comparison.

Thank you for creating a new thread d00msday

AdNaus is the deck I've been runnin' in vintage for the best of the last month. I like it a whole lot so fat. I've started from the Maffei List and decided to proceed to the following changes:

MAIN
-1 Chain of Vapor
+1 Imperial Seal
-1 Chrome Mox
+1 Mox Emerald

I often found myself wishing for an extra tutor, and Chain is not really something you'll find yourself playing every time it's in your hand, while imperial seal is. I think that 2 chains of vapor are fine.

I also like chrome mox, but I feel that 4 is too much due to the card disadventage inherent to playing it. I don't like hands with double chrome moxen, and that why I decided to cut one for a 3rd mox, which is for most part off-color but sometimes comes down as able to play a swarm for you, which is nice in theory.

SIDE
-1 Xantid Swarm
-2 Extirpate
-1 Engineered Explosives
+4 Dark Confidant

I wanted to make room for DC in the board, since it's a good card against control deck with card advantage. It's either forced, or helps you draw into your duresses. If it's drained, it's no biggie as it's 2 free mana as opposed to 5 for AdNauseam. Since it helps against control decks, I figured I could cut a swarm. 7 creatures to side in is way more then enough.

I decided to cut extirpate because I simply don't like the card, and I can tutor up Tormod's Crypt just fine against graveyard based combos.

Engineered explosives still remains as a singleton, but I'm definitely wondering why. I barely ever side them in. I have 3 maindeck bounce spells, 2 more in the sideboard, so what do I really need to explosives away? Dosen't even get rid of the annoying Gaddock Teeg you'll meet from time to time.

I am supposed to attend a 5 proxy vintage event next saturday with the deck, I will come back and tell how I fared (and hopefully why).

I would urge you to move the DCs to maindeck. As you pointed out, they're great against control for card advantage. They help a ton against STAX since they can beat every turn or help you draw into answer. There really isn't anything they're not good against.

I'm considering it, though I'd have a hard time cutting stuff for it.

I could to
-1 Ponder
-1 Thoughtseize
-1 Tendrils of Agony
-1 Chain of vapor (reducing to 1 last chain)

but I feel I'm weakening my maindeck if I do that. I'd have to try against actual players though.

ok so ever since i found that TPS kinda sucks and is sort of slow, i've been trying ANT.

this build Drops a Ad nauseum and just cycles thru the deck till you draw tendrils and the mana to play it. with 28 total cmc in the whole deck minus the ad nauseum, that means its impossible to loose b4 drawing a tendrils.

i've played 4 matches.

im 3-1 with the deck.

3 turn 1 or 2 kills.
then the only match i lost was to a deck that droped teeg T2 and i didnt have slaughter pact in the deck yet.
the decks that pose the biggest threats are Stax and Fish. stax you need to win b4 they start stacking costs up. fish only dies if you have no negation pact. without ferther adu...

Quote from Numotflame96

ok so ever since i found that TPS kinda sucks and is sort of slow, i've been trying ANT.

this build Drops a Ad nauseum and just cycles thru the deck till you draw tendrils and the mana to play it. with 28 total cmc in the whole deck minus the ad nauseum, that means its impossible to loose b4 drawing a tendrils.

i've played 4 matches.

im 3-1 with the deck.

3 turn 1 or 2 kills.
then the only match i lost was to a deck that droped teeg T2 and i didnt have slaughter pact in the deck yet.
the decks that pose the biggest threats are Stax and Fish. stax you need to win b4 they start stacking costs up. fish only dies if you have no negation pact. without ferther adu...

SKRules's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
12 Swamp 4 Badlands 3 Ornithopter 4 shield Sphere 4 Crimson Kobolds 3 Ad Nauseam 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 2 Spellbook 1 Lotus Petal 1 Black Lotus 4 Lotus Bloom 2 Tendrils of Agony 4 Chrome Mox 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Shattering Spree 1 Demonic Intent 4 Pact of Negation 2 Slaughter Pact	sideboard 3 shattering spree 4 tormod's crypt 3 extripate 4 Red elemental blast

Um... I'm very confused.
What in the world is with all the 0 cost creatures? It seems the only way to abuse them is with the singleton Diabolic Intent... not a very good use of 11 creatures.
Lotus Bloom is WAY too slow.
Using all 5 Moxen isn't good.
Red in the deck is unnecessary. The only thing you do with it is Shattering Spree, which isn't needed.
Slaughter Pact isn't needed main. It's a dead draw against most decks, and even decks with creatures tend to only play Teeg sideboard.
16 lands is too many for a deck planning to win T1-2. I've found 11 lands is fine.
Spellbook is... why??? Once you play Ad Nauseam you win. You don't need to worry about maximum hand sizes.

Try looking through the thread at the other lists. I like mine very much, but I'm biased of course.

Quote from Numotflame96

ok so ever since i found that TPS kinda sucks and is sort of slow, i've been trying ANT.

this build Drops a Ad nauseum and just cycles thru the deck till you draw tendrils and the mana to play it. with 28 total cmc in the whole deck minus the ad nauseum, that means its impossible to loose b4 drawing a tendrils.

i've played 4 matches.

im 3-1 with the deck.

3 turn 1 or 2 kills.
then the only match i lost was to a deck that droped teeg T2 and i didnt have slaughter pact in the deck yet.
the decks that pose the biggest threats are Stax and Fish. stax you need to win b4 they start stacking costs up. fish only dies if you have no negation pact. without ferther adu...

D00msday's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
12 Swamp 4 Badlands 3 Ornithopter 4 shield Sphere 4 Crimson Kobolds 3 Ad Nauseam 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 2 Spellbook 1 Lotus Petal 1 Black Lotus 4 Lotus Bloom 2 Tendrils of Agony 4 Chrome Mox 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Shattering Spree 1 Demonic Intent 4 Pact of Negation 2 Slaughter Pact	sideboard 3 shattering spree 4 tormod's crypt 3 extripate 4 Red elemental blast

Spell Book is completely worthless for this deck. You either Ad Nauseam at the end of their turn and go off on yours (in between which you are never forced to discard anything) or cast it on your turn and win (again, at no point are you forced to discard). 0-Cost cards are good in ANT, but only if they serve a real purpose.

As SK said, Lotus Bloom is terrible. If you think TPS is slow, wait until you try playing with these things.

The deck is missing Dark Rituals & Cabal Rituals, which are absolutely necessary to be able to cast Ad Nauseam before you're dead.

Also missing are Duress and/or Thoughtseize, you most definitely need disruptive turn 1 plays if you can't cast Ad Nauseam turn 1. Some bounce like Chain of Vapor is good because it can up your Storm count to lethal levels, increase mana production, or deal with threats. Being on blue also gives you access to all of the broken card draw and an additional tutor that you
need.

Basically my advice is to replace all of the Kobolds, Shield Spheres, Spell Books, Lotus Blooms and Ornithopters with cards that are good like Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Duress, Chain of Vapor, Ancestral Recall, Brainstorm, Ponder, Demonic Consultation, Mystical Tutor, etc. Looking at the posted deck, I only see 4 or 5 cards that I would ever want to topdeck, which is not what you want to go for.

yes there are alot of cards that are nxt to useless(or even some useless) cards. the point is that they are 0 cmc, and are better than lands because they up the storm count.

my deck is based on percentages. there are 3 nauseums and 3 cards to tutor for it. that 6/60 or 1/10. fairly good odds to get it by turn 1-3.

cards that are good like Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Duress, Chain of Vapor, Ancestral Recall,

yes all thoughs cards are good for storming but they become very painful when trying to find tendrils with ad nauseum. thats the kind of stuff that makes TPS. maybe im not playing stuff right but i very rarely get a chance to go off using all that stuff.

Quote from Numotflame96

yes there are alot of cards that are nxt to useless(or even some useless) cards. the point is that they are 0 cmc, and are better than lands because they up the storm count.

my deck is based on percentages. there are 3 nauseums and 3 cards to tutor for it. that 6/60 or 1/10. fairly good odds to get it by turn 1-3.


yes all thoughs cards are good for storming but they become very painful when trying to find tendrils with ad nauseum. thats the kind of stuff that makes TPS. maybe im not playing stuff right but i very rarely get a chance to go off using all that stuff.

That just doesn't make any sense. You don't have enough acceleration in there, so this deck will be much slower than my version.
In my deck the average cost is 1.35, so I'll draw 14 cards on average. That's definitely enough to win.
You may be drawing 20+ cards, but your chance of being able to win is less, since you only have 2 Tendrils and 2 ways of getting it.
My deck has many many more ways to find combo pieces to go off, so it's much more consistent and goes off much quicker.
Just test it out. You'll like it.

You do as you please, Numotflame96, but as it seems to be build your version is not getting there.

whats the advantage to running 3-4 tendrils when you'll be drawing your deck off of add nauasium? i really can't see this deck playing more than 2.

You are not actually drawing your entire deck. I think 3 is the right number, and that 4 is overkill. Play the deck a little and you'll find out that 2 is leading the way to times where the combo would work, if only you had a darn tendrils! Topdeck tutors don't work without the aid of Ponder or Brainstorm, and you only play 2 of those. You really need your tendril, don't you?

Quote from popeye79

whats the advantage to running 3-4 tendrils when you'll be drawing your deck off of add nauasium? i really can't see this deck playing more than 2.

I agree, Popeye, I only think 2 is Necessary. You can usually Ad Nauseam for ~15 cards, and in those 15 cards you can get:
2 Tendrils
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
And for the following all you need is Ponder, Brainstorm, or Ancestral Recall in addition to:
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
And Ponder, Brainstorm and Recall all did 3 cards deep anyway, so even worst-case if all you draw is one of them you still have a chance to find Tendrils. The chance that you're going to totally whiff is almost nil.

Well, it's a different version than the one I like. What's with the transformative Oath sideboard though? Why?
There's really no reason it should be restricted, it's definitely not dominating the meta or anything.

Hey I'm a big fan of the last list you posted, it's almost the exact same as mine when I build it without the Confidants. Mine is +1 LED, +1 Cabal Ritual, +1 Imperial Seal, -1 Land, -1 Thoughtseize, -1 Hurkyl's Recall. My manabase is different and without the transformational sideboard.

I think Ad Nauseam is very powerful but not really in danger of being restricted. It doesn't dominate the format (it doesn't even really Top 8 that much, but that's probably because it's underplayed). I think the big thing is that it creates a decktype, but can't really be included easily in others. You don't want to throw an Ad Naus into TPS or Tezz for example.

Quote from SKRules

I agree, Popeye, I only think 2 is Necessary. You can usually Ad Nauseam for ~15 cards, and in those 15 cards you can get:
2 Tendrils
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
And for the following all you need is Ponder, Brainstorm, or Ancestral Recall in addition to:
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
And Ponder, Brainstorm and Recall all did 3 cards deep anyway, so even worst-case if all you draw is one of them you still have a chance to find Tendrils. The chance that you're going to totally whiff is almost nil.

The last time I played ANT was at the ICBM Open back in July, but the extra copies of Tendrils let me set up several double Tendrils scenarios. They were important with the sideboarded Dark Confidants and make the Necro plan a lot better. Extra copies also make Demonc Consultation a lot less scary. Because I had 3 copies there were two hands that I won by turn 1 Consult into Yawg Will into Consult for Tendrils (I RFG'd 2 Tendrils along the way). I'd be very much anything that neuters my best tutor.

It's been FAR too long since someone has commented on this deck and how Insane this deck is. Maybe today wasn't my day for testing, but I'm starting to hate this deck! The last time I hated a deck I was compeled to build it. This deck can win through double force backup and not even give you a turn. The sickest cards in the deck are the Consultation and the Pacts.

What are other people’s mulligan strategies for this deck? Should mulligan equal a free tutor? In my testing of the two og builds one out of 5 opening hands might look good but all I drew into was more mana. However you can’t just mull till you get an Ad Nauseam (this is why it seems the 4x ad nauseam is better imo).
Also this deck is very capable of going budget. Just the simple and crass (and ironic) switch of the 4 power with 1 islands and 3 swamps still allows the deck to “go off” rather early and just seems to push back the average win turn to 2-3.

Turn 1 or 2 is situational mate. As a Stax player, if I go first, you won't go off on Turn 1 or 2. If I am playing Tezz or Fish, the odds of you going off turn 1 or 2 is also very low.

Be weary on advice that isn't always accurate. If your statement was 100% true, Ad Nauseum would be "the deck" to play.

This archetype is one of the fastest, most resilient combo decks in vintage at the moment. It's power lies in having both good discard and counters to back up it's powerful, speedy attack - it can fight thru decks that are prepared for it. It's weakness, is with the growing use of Sad Sack, it's playing only 3 Tendrils at most and scoops if something happens. Gaddock Teeg and Null Rod are both uncomfortable plays but the Chains help with those. I am considering this as a deck of choice more and more.

Numot looking back at your ANT Culling lists, you might check out this deck here:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29332

It's proven that it can win somewhat, and although I think the straight ANT decks slightly superior, it does give you a slightly different attack angle more discard via Cabal Therapy is available but it loses the Pacts. Listing the deck for reference for those who don't want to click the link.