I'm a fairly experienced Legacy player who discovered a Vintage event finally coming to my area. Since I basically have everything for these decks except Power, I figured I'd give it a go. I'm eyeing Bant Noble Fish. I'm having a very big issue with my deck design:
To fit in all the hate I want, I need to go low on counterspells (just 4 Daze and 4 FoW). Alternatively, I could up the counterspells, but this reduces the consistency of the hate.
By not playing Mental Misstep, Spell Pierce, not even a singleton Brainstorm, this deck increases the chances that your cascades hit Stony Silence or Grafdiggers cage. If I put in counterspells, removal, and/or other utility, I'd definitely cut the Agents and maybe some Meddling Mages.
To many, making those cuts for good counterspells seems obvious and foolproof. But consider this alternate perspective: I have enough counterspells to interact with people's crazy turn 1s (right? I need a professional opinion on this). After that, Stony Silence and Grafdiggers Cage shut down all non-creature decks in the format (and my MD Tarmogoyfs beat regular creature decks).
So, cascade and hate consistency vs utility and counterspells?
Warning for failure to use deck tags, in future please post a deck list as well as/instead of a link to an off-site deck list - BlackVise
As a legacy player, you should understand how brainstorm is the best card in legacy. It is even more powerful in vintage, because the spells it is finding are that much more powerful. Brainstorm is one of the best cards in the format; Cascading into brainstorm is just insanely good. Especially with all the singleton power spells that should be in your deck like time walk. Personally those counter spells are extremely relevant especially against mud. You either counter their turn 1 sphere/chalice or auto lose.
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Top 8'd spring states 2013 with esper control
Top 8'd modern states with tarmo-twin
My current concerns:
- I'm not sure what to trim to get my land count higher
- Without Meddling Mage, my game 1 combo match plummets. I'm under the impression that Workshop decks have kinda beat combo into submission. But I'd still like to not automatically give up game 1 to combo.
- I think I should generally have more counterspells. I'd like to fit Daze back in.
To fit in all the hate I want, I need to go low on counterspells (just 4 Daze and 4 FoW). Alternatively, I could up the counterspells, but this reduces the consistency of the hate.
Here is the starting point for me:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8892&iddeck=64978&lang=DE
By not playing Mental Misstep, Spell Pierce, not even a singleton Brainstorm, this deck increases the chances that your cascades hit Stony Silence or Grafdiggers cage. If I put in counterspells, removal, and/or other utility, I'd definitely cut the Agents and maybe some Meddling Mages.
To many, making those cuts for good counterspells seems obvious and foolproof. But consider this alternate perspective: I have enough counterspells to interact with people's crazy turn 1s (right? I need a professional opinion on this). After that, Stony Silence and Grafdiggers Cage shut down all non-creature decks in the format (and my MD Tarmogoyfs beat regular creature decks).
So, cascade and hate consistency vs utility and counterspells?
Warning for failure to use deck tags, in future please post a deck list as well as/instead of a link to an off-site deck list - BlackVise
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Top 8'd modern states with tarmo-twin
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral
1 Timewalk
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
2 Spell Pierce
3 Moxen
1 Lotus
My current concerns:
- I'm not sure what to trim to get my land count higher
- Without Meddling Mage, my game 1 combo match plummets. I'm under the impression that Workshop decks have kinda beat combo into submission. But I'd still like to not automatically give up game 1 to combo.
- I think I should generally have more counterspells. I'd like to fit Daze back in.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I just realized that my blue count is horrendously low. Now I need to fit in more blue spells and more land >_<
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival