This deck made its first appearance {report}, and as of late is becoming one of the most fear rogue decks on the scene.
Bottomline using my opinion...this one of the best decks I've tested, played against, and have seen in the last few years hands down.
If you're into Mono-Black and want a competitive shot/edge at winning p9 style events vs todays meta, well this is the deck of your dreams...or nightmares as one pro wrote.
S.M.
This deck was invented by Max Brown, and he used it to win the first Blue Bell Games Day of 2010 on Jan 3, 2010. Ryan Glackin just played it to top 8 at Vintage Champs. Max wrote an excellent primer, which can be found on TMD. I've also written about it several times on SCG.
I agree with you that this deck is for real. Hexmage is an excellent choice in a format full of Jace, as is maindeck needle and a mana denial strategy. I strongly advise a main-deck Crucible of Worlds to support the mana denial plan. The Trygon Tezz deck from Champs doesn't have bounce effects that can hit Marit Lage and he is immune to Duplicant from Shop decks.
When played right this deck has answers for most of the viable decks in type 1 right now. The deck really punish's people who agressivly mulligan, and can easily win against dredge game 1.
This deck was invented by Max Brown, and he used it to win the first Blue Bell Games Day of 2010 on Jan 3, 2010. Ryan Glackin just played it to top 8 at Vintage Champs. Max wrote an excellent primer, which can be found on TMD. I've also written about it several times on SCG.
I agree with you that this deck is for real. Hexmage is an excellent choice in a format full of Jace, as is maindeck needle and a mana denial strategy. I strongly advise a main-deck Crucible of Worlds to support the mana denial plan. The Trygon Tezz deck from Champs doesn't have bounce effects that can hit Marit Lage and he is immune to Duplicant from Shop decks.
Max is credited {I'm well aware of Browns posts and decks} with that thread link :).
Voltron what do you think about the random versions that have toss in the Key/Vault Combo?...I know it's a bit of a oxymoron, but I can see the Oops factor really shining throughout some of those other rogue variants.
S.M.
it was about time! Brown's dec deserved a mention. i have some questions. i try to use my sb slots as effectively i can. ghost quarter is an interesting card choice as a 4X vs dredge and mud. what is your opinion? did anyone playtested cabal pit and bojua bog as a 1 of instead of 2x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth? how about adding fetch lands for the purpose of deck thinning? your thoughts for dystopia as a sb material vs oath and fish? vs oath it can be used to delay them as they must sacrifice one of their three creatures especially iona or they must sacrifice oath. i strongly suggest the use of bitterblossom as a 4x instead emissary of despair because blossom can be used agaist mud and fish. thoughts?
Lets break this down shall we:
First the Graveyard removal and effects are solid placements in the SB, so I wouldn't toy around too much with that area. The options that currently sit are proven, and when something isn't broke there's no reason to fix it.
Emissary is simply a feared creature that Mudd players don't want to see, and I have to place his power level almost right at the mark were Trygon Predator sits when taking in that match-up...he recks their game plans without a second thought.
Blossom is a new addition to the archeytpe and there's no reason to have more then the correct tempo number {2 in this situation} in this archetype. This deck doesn't need them really at all {from what I've seen}, but it's nice to have some killer SB option vs certian archetypes in the format...hense I understand the reasons behind the deck using just the 2 copies, but in lamen terms anything more is a overkill.
I would never cut the Urborgs....done on that topic for sole reasoning of commonsense...take one minute to really think about the "why" they're in the deck good member in the first place.
As for Oath ect I believe this deck {Dark`Times} is well prepared for those match-ups, and when you take in the land denial this deck runs and ofcourse the 8 disrupt effects...Diabolic and Sad`Sacks.....ok I think you can follow were I'm going with this. This deck punishes combo molds, and trust me when I say a resolved 20/20 that can't die will make Iona and Oath in general look like a joke.
My opinion is this deck is everything Max Brown envisioned, and it'll only take 1-4 wrong tweaks in this mold to really screw up the balance he work so hard to showcase. Right now subtle changes {adding a CoW for example} are welcome, but mages really need to take in consideration that this deck right now just as it sits....is a complete walking nightmare taking in it's rogue and not even tier.
This deck doesn't need anything drastic yet, but instead mages just need to learn how to pilot it better "I" feel to gain smoother tourney results.
S.M.
I don't think you want Key/Vault in this deck, especially with the format becoming more hostile to it with Trygon and Nature's Claim. Otherwise yeah I agree on pretty much all points.
would gate to phyrexia be a possible inclusion?
i cant say how many times i end up with void-helm set but foiled by my own null rod.
also being an artifact destroyer is a plus in vintage. my main complaint is the timing restrictions...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Trade Thread here Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
would gate to phyrexia be a possible inclusion?
i cant say how many times i end up with void-helm set but foiled by my own null rod.
also being an artifact destroyer is a plus in vintage. my main complaint is the timing restrictions...
I think it can possibly be good in the sideboard, but I don't think it is relevant enough to mainboard.
It just costs you too much to do not enough in like 90% of the matchups you face. You only run 8 guys, and all 8 of them are potentially extremely relevant. Kill a Hexer and you potentially screw yourself out of a 20/20. Kill a Bob and you lose your card advantage engine (if you're not playing the Necro version at least.) Granted, it does give you a cute way to get rid of a Bob that could potentially kill you late game, but even then, you still have to take one more trigger out of it.
I think it fits in very well against Stax. You can Null Rod them out and then blow it up the turn you want to go off. But against everything else I'm not sold. You have enough other ways to win that if you can't get off your Helm/Leyline combo, you can find another route to victory easily enough.
How's this for a starting point I wonder with regards to adding that splash?
My meta reflects the additional artifact hate ect...stax just slaughters this archetype when a timed chalice {turn 1 lets say} hits online charged at 2. The Claims allow me to have a out (EOT), and I'm almost tempted to run 4 deep...seeing they almost never appear to be a dead card, and 4 life isn't a drop of sweat to worry about.
Any critisim is welcome as always,
S.M.
2 Tarmogoyf and 3 Bob? Not so much the two tarmogoyf, but only 3 Bob's?
Also there are a lot of 1 of artifacts and only two tutors. Most of them I agree with only 1, but only 1 Null Rod seems weird. I would be tempted to try and up that to 4 personally.
Other than that I really like the direction your list is going. Darkblast seems extra cool in the Bob-crazy meta right now.
2 Tarmogoyf and 3 Bob? Not so much the two tarmogoyf, but only 3 Bob's?
Also there are a lot of 1 of artifacts and only two tutors. Most of them I agree with only 1, but only 1 Null Rod seems weird. I would be tempted to try and up that to 4 personally.
Other than that I really like the direction your list is going. Darkblast seems extra cool in the Bob-crazy meta right now.
I'm having a problem fitting the Seal in the mold right now, and I'm stuck on the Null Rod factor myself. My templete is coming from Max and Jacks tested decklists, but I completely hear what you're saying seeing I'm lacking that 3rd tutor.
As for the 3 Bob's I'm more or less just trying to use them like the mini-draw engines that they're in most cases, and their cut allowed for the 2 Goyfs {Kings} which have been a nice reliable mid-late game Mcgwire`Bat.
I do feel that the archetype needs to embrace that green as stated by other competitive players inorder to maintain a stable chance vs some of those pesky Workshop builds, but that's just my opinion as I find myself really starting to run this archetype.
Thanks for the imput C-Pride, and if you have any strong ideas that might get this sucker running more smoothly with that green`splash I'm all eyes;).
S.M.
I think green is the way to go as well. Nature's claim is absolutely amazing, and thinking back to when I played painter, half of my workshop plan was just put tarmogoyfs in the board. It worked. Well. Adding nature's claim just makes it nuts.
Sadly there aren't that many other playable green spells in vintage that fit this deck. Perhaps Regrowth would be OK, but to be honest, I'm not sure what you would want to regrow so importantly that its worth removing a real card from the deck for.
The decklist looks super tight as is, I feel like I really want 4 null rods, but I cant find 1 card to cut, nevermind 3. There are 2 more in your board though, so maybe it will be ok.
Keep us posted on your testing. I'm very interested to see how your build in particular does. I think I will suggest this list to my friend if he decides to go with this type of deck for our next local vintage tournament. (He played it at gencon, since he is unpowered, but he went for GWSx in the proxy environment, and he liked both decks).
My meta is extremely small, but this deck seems very well prepared for it.
The only way I see to get the Seal in this deck is with 1 of these cards taking the axe:
1x Grim Discovery {I just really like the comfort the card allows me against fish, control ect...but if I had to be honest....I don't use it very much}
1x Darkblast {I learned my lession through testing against Marriedwithchildren and his SCV deck....I'll probably run a darkblast in every major deck I pilot just to stay on the safe side, so this card can't be sliced}
1x Cabal Therapy {I've already dropped the 8 count down to 6 with regards to the disruption, so I don't think it's worth going any lower in the limbo to get this green in right now...I'll name Chalice of the Void...I just made a funny;)}
1x Crucible of Worlds {yep it's just so good to get that sweet combo out via oops lol, and when thinking about it I'm right back at staring at the Grim Discovery again}
If this hurdle can be jumped I believe this archetype with that splash could seriously inflict massive damage on the scene, and hell the surprise factor is still strong with Dark`Times...it's just to aggressive only falling short most of the time to Damn Shop decks {for the most part} in my opinion.
Should I just place a number on those 4 slots....and roll a dice, because this is a hard choice seeing the Seal should be present I think.
S.M.
S.M., what about Hidden Guerrillas in the side against shop decks? Seems like a good comeback to Lodestone Golem....
Talk about a flashback, bravo on that highlight!
I'll have to really put some thought into that choice seeing my meta is wet with Shop decks. I can honestly state that it would be a wrecking ball considering if multiple copies were flopped down in the early game right before their pressure started to boil.
Solid mention bud, and I know I'm going to sounds crazy...but I've had moments when I've considered tossing in some red into this deck just to pack Meltdown in my SB. But then I remember there's more to the meta than Shops {hense the green`splash}, it only feels like that's all I've been facing of late:-/.
S.M.
No problem, I found a couple in a box at my local shop and figured they'd come in handy... Not sure how they'll work out, but they could be useful against more than just shop decks seeing as moxen are nearly ubiquitous... If you decide to test them, let me know how they work out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
Sorry if this is being posted in the wrong place, but other forums are dead to say the least. If I were to build this deck for MTGO where P9 has not been printed (Yet!) would a reasonable substitute for the Mox Jet/Emeral and Black Lotus be 3 more Lotus Petal? Petal's not restricted in Classic. This is nothing to do with budget, but literal availability. Otherwise this deck looks extremely fun to play, and I'm really diggin' the Green splash!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Sorry if this is being posted in the wrong place, but other forums are dead to say the least. If I were to build this deck for MTGO where P9 has not been printed (Yet!) would a reasonable substitute for the Mox Jet/Emeral and Black Lotus be 3 more Lotus Petal? Petal's not restricted in Classic. This is nothing to do with budget, but literal availability. Otherwise this deck looks extremely fun to play, and I'm really diggin' the Green splash!
Is Mox Diamond on MODO (it was in Relics wasn't it)? If you run the Crucible version the drawback isn't horrible. If it is only in relics I might wait to see if the price comes down first, though.
Is Mox Diamond on MODO (it was in Relics wasn't it)? If you run the Crucible version the drawback isn't horrible. If it is only in relics I might wait to see if the price comes down first, though.
Nope it's online, they printed Stronghold last year I think. Both versions sell for $17 so that just may be better. Before I made the jump to MTGO I used to play combo in Vintage, so I tend to forget that these decks run... lands
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Nope it's online, they printed Stronghold last year I think. Both versions sell for $17 so that just may be better. Before I made the jump to MTGO I used to play combo in Vintage, so I tend to forget that these decks run... lands
I would run the Lotus Petal in a heartbeat over the Mox Diamond in Dark`Times if "I" wasted my money via online play {classic}, but that's my opinion seeing I don't want to pitch a land and feel that the Petal is more explosive.
S.M.
Can someone give me the rationale for not playing Sol Ring over the 11th Swamp? Is it just because of Null Rod, or is there something else I'm missing?
It just seems like having Sol Ring would make the Helm Combo easier to pull off and Sacraments easier to kick, and even helps to facilitate a turn 1 null rod...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
I would run the Lotus Petal in a heartbeat over the Mox Diamond in Dark`Times if "I" wasted my money via online play {classic}, but that's my opinion seeing I don't want to pitch a land and feel that the Petal is more explosive.
S.M.
I ended up running the Petals, as I never really needed the mana to "stay", and it's working fine. I want to defend online play though, as it's hardly a waste when there's no one to play paper Magic with within 300 miles of where I live :/
Unless you're talking about investing in Classic, then I'd agree. However it's Legacy I'm invested in, and having that card pool makes playing Classic fairly easy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
Here's my current Dark`Times deck with the most recent, and in my opinion efficient changes of late regarding the splash of green.
Sadly The King of Kings {Tarmogoyf} didn't make the cut for clear reasoning that this archetype is going to force feed that 20/20 in 90% of the situations.
S.B. and meta choice
2+ Pernicious Deed (Solid card for what it does and that's taking in it's a little slow. The truth is when a deed hits online you know it's there...and your opp does as well. This card has the potential to adjust almost any situation...I like this card:)}
Results:
I'm not losing to Shop decks anymore like I was before the green came into effect, and the Deeds/Claims were never wasted cards during testing.
This is a rough mold I know, but in time I should have all the kinks strangled out soon if I'm lucky.
@S.M.
Very interesting build... I'm interested in hearing how that build plays out in a real tournament environment.
Quick questions:
Is Demonic Consultation really better than Yawgmoth's Will in the deck?
Has dropping to six discard spells negatively affected the early game at all?
Has dropping the main deck Sacrament hurt the "oops I win" factor at all? Also, are only two in the side enough to make it relevant when you want it?
Format: Vintage
24 Participants
5 rounds of Swiss
- followed by T8 Playoffs
1x Mox Jet
1x Lotus Petal
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Helm of Obedience
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Duress
1x Imperial Seal
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Grim Discovery
1x Sadistic Sacrament
4x Thoughtseize
4x Dark Ritual
1x Darkblast
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Demonic Consultation
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Strip Mine
2x Dark Depths
4x Wasteland
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
11x Snow-Covered Swamp
2x Bitterblossom
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
2x Emissary of Despair
1x Pithing Needle
2x Null Rod
1x Faerie Macabre
3x Sadistic Sacrament
1x Dark Depths
2x Yixlid Jailer
This deck made its first appearance {report}, and as of late is becoming one of the most fear rogue decks on the scene.
Bottomline using my opinion...this one of the best decks I've tested, played against, and have seen in the last few years hands down.
If you're into Mono-Black and want a competitive shot/edge at winning p9 style events vs todays meta, well this is the deck of your dreams...or nightmares as one pro wrote.
S.M.
I agree with you that this deck is for real. Hexmage is an excellent choice in a format full of Jace, as is maindeck needle and a mana denial strategy. I strongly advise a main-deck Crucible of Worlds to support the mana denial plan. The Trygon Tezz deck from Champs doesn't have bounce effects that can hit Marit Lage and he is immune to Duplicant from Shop decks.
4 dark ritual
1 Demonic tutor
3 diabolic edict
4 duress
4 leyline of the void
1 Necropotence
4 thoughtseize
4 vampire hexmage
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s will
1 Crucible of worlds
1 Helm of obedience
1 Lotus petal
1 Null rod
1 Pithing needle
2 dark depths
1 Strip mine
11 swamp
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 wasteland
1 Imperial seal
1 Black lotus
1 Mox jet
1 Demonic consultation
1 Darkblast
2 emissary of despair
1 Engineered plague
1 Sadistic sacrament
2 yixlid jailer
1 Pithing needle
3 null rod
1 Trinisphere
1 Phyrexian tower
When played right this deck has answers for most of the viable decks in type 1 right now. The deck really punish's people who agressivly mulligan, and can easily win against dredge game 1.
Max is credited {I'm well aware of Browns posts and decks} with that thread link :).
Voltron what do you think about the random versions that have toss in the Key/Vault Combo?...I know it's a bit of a oxymoron, but I can see the Oops factor really shining throughout some of those other rogue variants.
S.M.
Lets break this down shall we:
First the Graveyard removal and effects are solid placements in the SB, so I wouldn't toy around too much with that area. The options that currently sit are proven, and when something isn't broke there's no reason to fix it.
Emissary is simply a feared creature that Mudd players don't want to see, and I have to place his power level almost right at the mark were Trygon Predator sits when taking in that match-up...he recks their game plans without a second thought.
Blossom is a new addition to the archeytpe and there's no reason to have more then the correct tempo number {2 in this situation} in this archetype. This deck doesn't need them really at all {from what I've seen}, but it's nice to have some killer SB option vs certian archetypes in the format...hense I understand the reasons behind the deck using just the 2 copies, but in lamen terms anything more is a overkill.
I would never cut the Urborgs....done on that topic for sole reasoning of commonsense...take one minute to really think about the "why" they're in the deck good member in the first place.
As for Oath ect I believe this deck {Dark`Times} is well prepared for those match-ups, and when you take in the land denial this deck runs and ofcourse the 8 disrupt effects...Diabolic and Sad`Sacks.....ok I think you can follow were I'm going with this. This deck punishes combo molds, and trust me when I say a resolved 20/20 that can't die will make Iona and Oath in general look like a joke.
My opinion is this deck is everything Max Brown envisioned, and it'll only take 1-4 wrong tweaks in this mold to really screw up the balance he work so hard to showcase. Right now subtle changes {adding a CoW for example} are welcome, but mages really need to take in consideration that this deck right now just as it sits....is a complete walking nightmare taking in it's rogue and not even tier.
This deck doesn't need anything drastic yet, but instead mages just need to learn how to pilot it better "I" feel to gain smoother tourney results.
S.M.
i cant say how many times i end up with void-helm set but foiled by my own null rod.
also being an artifact destroyer is a plus in vintage. my main complaint is the timing restrictions...
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
I think it can possibly be good in the sideboard, but I don't think it is relevant enough to mainboard.
It just costs you too much to do not enough in like 90% of the matchups you face. You only run 8 guys, and all 8 of them are potentially extremely relevant. Kill a Hexer and you potentially screw yourself out of a 20/20. Kill a Bob and you lose your card advantage engine (if you're not playing the Necro version at least.) Granted, it does give you a cute way to get rid of a Bob that could potentially kill you late game, but even then, you still have to take one more trigger out of it.
I think it fits in very well against Stax. You can Null Rod them out and then blow it up the turn you want to go off. But against everything else I'm not sold. You have enough other ways to win that if you can't get off your Helm/Leyline combo, you can find another route to victory easily enough.
My meta reflects the additional artifact hate ect...stax just slaughters this archetype when a timed chalice {turn 1 lets say} hits online charged at 2. The Claims allow me to have a out (EOT), and I'm almost tempted to run 4 deep...seeing they almost never appear to be a dead card, and 4 life isn't a drop of sweat to worry about.
Any critisim is welcome as always,
S.M.
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Lotus Petal
1x Crucible of Worlds (Win)
1x Helm of Obedience (Win)
1x Pithing Needle (Tech)
1x Null Rod (Tech)
2x Nature's Claim (Tech)
3x Duress
2x Thoughtseize
1x Cabal Therapy (Tech)
1x Sadistic Sacrament (Win)
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Grim Discovery (Just a nice safety net)
1x Demonic Consultation
4x Dark Ritual
1x Darkblast (Tech)
3x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Tarmogoyf
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Dark Depths
1x Forest
3x Swamp
2x Yixlid Jailer
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Pithing Needle
2x Null Rod
2x Pernicious Deed
1x Sadistic Sacrament
2x Emissary of Despair
1x Krosan Grip
1x Nature's Claim
2 Tarmogoyf and 3 Bob? Not so much the two tarmogoyf, but only 3 Bob's?
Also there are a lot of 1 of artifacts and only two tutors. Most of them I agree with only 1, but only 1 Null Rod seems weird. I would be tempted to try and up that to 4 personally.
Other than that I really like the direction your list is going. Darkblast seems extra cool in the Bob-crazy meta right now.
I'm having a problem fitting the Seal in the mold right now, and I'm stuck on the Null Rod factor myself. My templete is coming from Max and Jacks tested decklists, but I completely hear what you're saying seeing I'm lacking that 3rd tutor.
As for the 3 Bob's I'm more or less just trying to use them like the mini-draw engines that they're in most cases, and their cut allowed for the 2 Goyfs {Kings} which have been a nice reliable mid-late game Mcgwire`Bat.
I do feel that the archetype needs to embrace that green as stated by other competitive players inorder to maintain a stable chance vs some of those pesky Workshop builds, but that's just my opinion as I find myself really starting to run this archetype.
Thanks for the imput C-Pride, and if you have any strong ideas that might get this sucker running more smoothly with that green`splash I'm all eyes;).
S.M.
Sadly there aren't that many other playable green spells in vintage that fit this deck. Perhaps Regrowth would be OK, but to be honest, I'm not sure what you would want to regrow so importantly that its worth removing a real card from the deck for.
The decklist looks super tight as is, I feel like I really want 4 null rods, but I cant find 1 card to cut, nevermind 3. There are 2 more in your board though, so maybe it will be ok.
Keep us posted on your testing. I'm very interested to see how your build in particular does. I think I will suggest this list to my friend if he decides to go with this type of deck for our next local vintage tournament. (He played it at gencon, since he is unpowered, but he went for GWSx in the proxy environment, and he liked both decks).
My meta is extremely small, but this deck seems very well prepared for it.
Thanks for the list
1x Grim Discovery {I just really like the comfort the card allows me against fish, control ect...but if I had to be honest....I don't use it very much}
1x Darkblast {I learned my lession through testing against Marriedwithchildren and his SCV deck....I'll probably run a darkblast in every major deck I pilot just to stay on the safe side, so this card can't be sliced}
1x Cabal Therapy {I've already dropped the 8 count down to 6 with regards to the disruption, so I don't think it's worth going any lower in the limbo to get this green in right now...I'll name Chalice of the Void...I just made a funny;)}
1x Crucible of Worlds {yep it's just so good to get that sweet combo out via oops lol, and when thinking about it I'm right back at staring at the Grim Discovery again}
If this hurdle can be jumped I believe this archetype with that splash could seriously inflict massive damage on the scene, and hell the surprise factor is still strong with Dark`Times...it's just to aggressive only falling short most of the time to Damn Shop decks {for the most part} in my opinion.
Should I just place a number on those 4 slots....and roll a dice, because this is a hard choice seeing the Seal should be present I think.
S.M.
I am John Galt.
Talk about a flashback, bravo on that highlight!
I'll have to really put some thought into that choice seeing my meta is wet with Shop decks. I can honestly state that it would be a wrecking ball considering if multiple copies were flopped down in the early game right before their pressure started to boil.
Solid mention bud, and I know I'm going to sounds crazy...but I've had moments when I've considered tossing in some red into this deck just to pack Meltdown in my SB. But then I remember there's more to the meta than Shops {hense the green`splash}, it only feels like that's all I've been facing of late:-/.
S.M.
I am John Galt.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Is Mox Diamond on MODO (it was in Relics wasn't it)? If you run the Crucible version the drawback isn't horrible. If it is only in relics I might wait to see if the price comes down first, though.
Nope it's online, they printed Stronghold last year I think. Both versions sell for $17 so that just may be better. Before I made the jump to MTGO I used to play combo in Vintage, so I tend to forget that these decks run... lands
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
I would run the Lotus Petal in a heartbeat over the Mox Diamond in Dark`Times if "I" wasted my money via online play {classic}, but that's my opinion seeing I don't want to pitch a land and feel that the Petal is more explosive.
S.M.
It just seems like having Sol Ring would make the Helm Combo easier to pull off and Sacraments easier to kick, and even helps to facilitate a turn 1 null rod...
I am John Galt.
I ended up running the Petals, as I never really needed the mana to "stay", and it's working fine. I want to defend online play though, as it's hardly a waste when there's no one to play paper Magic with within 300 miles of where I live :/
Unless you're talking about investing in Classic, then I'd agree. However it's Legacy I'm invested in, and having that card pool makes playing Classic fairly easy.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Sadly The King of Kings {Tarmogoyf} didn't make the cut for clear reasoning that this archetype is going to force feed that 20/20 in 90% of the situations.
Maindeck:
1- Yawgmoth's Will
1- Sadisitic Sacrament
1- Duress
2- Thoughtseize
8- Swamp
vs
1+ Pernicious Deed
1+ Cabal Therapy
3+ Nature's Claim
1+ Bloodstained Mire
4+ Verdant Catacombs
2+ Bayou
1+ Forest
S.B. and meta choice
2+ Pernicious Deed (Solid card for what it does and that's taking in it's a little slow. The truth is when a deed hits online you know it's there...and your opp does as well. This card has the potential to adjust almost any situation...I like this card:)}
Results:
I'm not losing to Shop decks anymore like I was before the green came into effect, and the Deeds/Claims were never wasted cards during testing.
This is a rough mold I know, but in time I should have all the kinks strangled out soon if I'm lucky.
S.M.
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Lotus Petal
1x Null Rod (Tech)
1x Pithing Needle (Tech)
1x Helm of Obedience (Oops)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Duress
1x Imperial Seal
1x Demonic Tutor
2x Thoughtseize
1x Cabal Therapy (Tech)
4x Dark Ritual
1x Darkblast (Tech)
2x Diabolic Edict (Tech)
1x Demonic Consultation
3x Nature's Claim (The reason for the Splash, and a standout for this deck to function against those archetypes that toss problems your way)
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Pernicious Deed (Tech)
1x Strip Mine
2x Dark Depths
4x Wasteland
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Forest
2x Bayou
2x Bitterblossom (MVP & I now have a better understanding for the reasons it's played in the S.B.)
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
2x Emissary of Despair
1x Pithing Needle
2x Null Rod
2x Pernicious Deed (MVP)
1x Faerie Macabre
2x Sadistic Sacrament
2x Yixlid Jailer
Very interesting build... I'm interested in hearing how that build plays out in a real tournament environment.
Quick questions:
Is Demonic Consultation really better than Yawgmoth's Will in the deck?
Has dropping to six discard spells negatively affected the early game at all?
Has dropping the main deck Sacrament hurt the "oops I win" factor at all? Also, are only two in the side enough to make it relevant when you want it?
I am John Galt.