Who's the troll...I never said anything about east cost, and we're done.
I don't reply back you, you don't reply back to me...and you can live in your world of I speak for every vintage player, and I'll speak the light, of there's a larger picture that effects the game.
S.M.
SM, are we even speaking the same language How many of those links are for tournaments on the East Coast? My response was specifically to refute this quote:
"It's hard to believe that the East Coast meta has only a small % of Fish players considering that this deck has been taking Top 3s consistently, and that is a fact."
And you're throwing a dozen top 8s from Europe, CA, and the rest of the world out there... what does that have to do with anything?
SM, are we even speaking the same language? How many of those links are for tournaments on the East Coast? My response was specifically to refute this quote:
"It's hard to believe that the East Coast meta has only a small % of Fish players considering that this deck has been taking Top 3s consistently, and that is a fact."
And you're throwing a dozen top 8s from Europe, CA, and the rest of the world out there... what does that have to do with anything?
I never said that I was only talking about the East Coast. Where have I said that? You are assuming this. You can read the quote, it states, the East Coast meta has a small % of Fish players considering that this deck has been taking Top 3s consistently [and I never said where. And if you want clarification, then yes, I was stating the whole world] Why would I say that Fish takes Top3s while admitting that Fish is a small % of the meta in the East Coast?
It's okay. It's a misunderstanding.
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Quote from Anonymous »
Don't get me wrong, playing Dredge is one of my guilty pleasures, along with eating chunky monkey ice cream and watching my Gilmore Girls DVDs in my underpants, but it's pretty much, in my opinion, the very last deck that I'd want anyone to start a career in Vintage with.
None of this has anything to do with what I said initially that got you both so riled up, which is that it is highly unlikely in current Vintage (to the point that I would say it isn't going to happen) that any Fish player is going to have his/her Fetches hit by Pithing Needle.
Its POSSIBLE that it will happen, but it is highly, highly unlikely that anyone is going to try to utilize such a low-EV strategy. The higher-EV play is to run Mistys with a Forest and an Island given how the meta is going to shake out with Worldwake's release.
I realize I'm not going to convince you of this, and that's fine - I wasn't really trying to. Just providing a counterpoint to the idea that you want to run just a Basic island and play Windswepth Heath, which I personally believe is incorrect. Just my opinion. Readers can do with it what they want.
Maybe I'll run a poll in an SCG article or on TMD and ask how often its happened to people. Would that help?
EDIT: Food for thought guys... take a look at the lists that you both linked to, and tell me - how many of those lists have 4 Misty Rainforest? Isn't that the crux of this debate? Aren't the very links you're providing proving that the field is, in many cases, running 4 Mistys? Is the whole world on crazy pills?
More reason to not forget you can be effective with that needle, so yeah I noticed...and currenty have another route I'm taking to ensure...I won't face that risk.
I wonder how many times we're going to go back and forth with answering my questions, turning it around and then doing it again...
The world isn't on crazy pills...but I know few members that are....{note this isn't a direct hit to you, but hey it could be directed at me...who knows right ;)} so lets just go with we all have a misunderstanding...well me and myw002 seem to be on the same page...but hey that's the real world as we both stated {I found something I can agree with good member},
EDIT: Food for thought guys... take a look at the lists that you both linked to, and tell me - how many of those lists have 4 Misty Rainforest? Isn't that the crux of this debate? Aren't the very links you're providing proving that the field is, in many cases, running 4 Mistys? Is the whole world on crazy pills?
Regardless of the flames that are flying, I still think this deck can be viable in the meta. Especially here in the midwest, where I am seeing a lot of oath.
With that said, 4 misty is going to happen. I have had it named and it sucked, but that was against mono black after a landlock. Yes, I lost as a result, but is oath really going to name misty? or any deck that runs the same land, for that matter?
Voltron, Rome and I were talking and I was curious to know what you thought of selkie in general. From your experience, what would you change in my list in respect to the meta here in the midwest? To see previous top8, see: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39667.0
Any input would be appreciated.
I really do like this deck, but it sounds like it doesn't do very well lately. Atleast not on the coast.
I would like to make this work, and if that is just NOT very viable, the spike in me wants some advice as to which direction to take this.
I love playing, but I love winning even more.
Crazy pills FTW,
M.H
Team Empire
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First and foremost Crazy Pills are the thing of the future didnt you know?
Hey look a clown...
Ok back to the crazy world...
Paul glad to see you posting again been quite some time since I've been back east and playing. Ive been out here in the midwest and the meta is a bit diffrent not as many stax decks that im happy about. Though that will be changing weather its stax or its little sister agroshop. The meta out here is pretty much defined by ICBM. Shout out to Carp, King, Solly, and Seroogy. On that note Quik and myself have been doing alot of testing talking and moving things around in all the decks. Get ahold of me more privately if you dont want to feel you have to put on a show for the masses.
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~Rome aka Ceaser Founder of Team Empire~
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
I think Selkie is best in a meta with other Fish decks, it seems like a huge game-ender there. I think its kind of mediocre in the field I'm expecting. The list I'm playing right now has Trygon and Thada, although I think you could play Selkie over Thada.
What decks do you expect to see for this upcoming event (Philly Open), in terms of prevalence?
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Quote from Anonymous »
Don't get me wrong, playing Dredge is one of my guilty pleasures, along with eating chunky monkey ice cream and watching my Gilmore Girls DVDs in my underpants, but it's pretty much, in my opinion, the very last deck that I'd want anyone to start a career in Vintage with.
Thada can be good against shop if your in board control take a tangle wire or a stax or a chalice and play it lol.
Out here with the latest event we had I expect to see a pretty big Oath population so based on that Noble is a good choice.
Those are all possible. You would probably be better off just grabbing a crucible and wasting them every turn if you have the upper hand. Or fetching every turn so you get +1 permanents each turn plus resources. Thus negating their wires, stax, trin, etc.
Back to 18 lands.
Added the Mystical Tutor, Hurkyl's Recall for synergy VS Inwell Leviathan...I know...might not be the best move.
I think 4 Mr. DCI is just a overkill, and that goes for the 4 Rods. I never had a problem with 3 Rods, 4 Pridemage.....so I'm back on that route.
Negate is a killer card {I'm on the ladder with this deck running 4 or not}, so for now I'm sticking to Spell Snare seeing it's also another true vintage hard counter.
Well I'm going to do some testing tonight, and I hope my results bring some positive fruit to report.
S.M.
p.s.
I'm surely being open minded to the member that shared the StP are a must for todays current meta {I can completely understand that statement}, so with that in mind the count is 3 strong....might as well make it worth it.
This is what I've been testing for the past week... pretty happy with it so far. If you really feel like you have to have Meddling Mage, just go -2 Kataki, -1 Bant Charm, +3 Meddling Mage. Personally, I was never all that pleased with it. If you feel you need Selkie, just swap for Thada or Trygon, depending on which you feel is worst in your meta.
What's with the Bant Charm? And I asume you were happy with Thada in testing then? Also Matt you can just add [deck*] insert deck here [/deck*] without the stars to format it.
What's with the Bant Charm? And I asume you were happy with Thada in testing then? Also Matt you can just add [deck*] insert deck here [/deck*] without the stars to format it.
Deck now looks sufficiently fancy, thanks.
And yes, so far Thada's been pretty awesome against Tezz. I like it more than Aven Mindcensor, and the extra blue cards gave me the room to cut Mage and still feel like I have enough blue for FoW.
Also, I just have a random love of Bant Charm. It really does everything you want... counters Gifts, blows up Time Vault, gets Confidant and Sower out of play, counters Repeal or Chain of Vapor on Null Rod, its great in the mirror as creature control and a hard counter on Swords, and so on. My old list had two main, but I like having 2 Pierce main and it isn't the easiest thing to cast against Shops (although when you can, its awesome).
Ive been messing around with some stuff. This is what i am working with now. Like always, I really dont know what to do with the sideboard, but in MWS testing it works out fine. However, I never face Ichorid, so I have no idea how that will work in in real life. The top 8's i have made with previous version of this deck have lost in the first round to dredge.
I don't know yet with this little gem creature...hmm I know it can be a must deal with RIGHT now type of creature vs some archtypes, but I'm on the ladder because of the casting....Selkie swings both ways;).
Now what's the deal with the bant Charm....did I miss something here with a card that's 3`multi-colours? I'm curious on your opinion with the topic VoL? Friendly simple Q that's all, and what are the results like.....is it worth it?
S.M.
I don't know yet with this little gem creature...hmm I know it can be a must deal with RIGHT now type of creature vs some archtypes, but I'm on the ladder because of the casting....Selkie swings both ways;).
S.M.
Thada dosn't get Dark Blasted. Personally I wasn't a fan when I played Selkie strike at the ICBM double power nine and just missed top 8 cut. I ended up cutting the Nobles and the selkie for more main board answers like cannonist and kataki (Cannonist being newer at the time) took that build to nats and X-0 with no game losses.
That being said Quik plays a noble build that is very good but I like the way this one looks with thada but selkie is a huge drawl engine and makes a big diffrence. Id sooner cut goyf for 3 selkie and 1 StP and 1 Null rod for 1 StP
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:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
I have been having a lot of success with StP, and I found Stifle to be underwhelming. I suggest people give it a try, really. I have never been disappointed to get rid of a Bob or a Welder.
Also, can anyone provide a breakdown of Leyline vs Wheel of Sun and Moon?
My rationale was that I would have to mulligan to see it in my opening hand to win, regardless. I figure I would rather start with it in play as opposed to having to try to cast it. Especially game 3, where I may not be on the play (assuming dredge steals game 1 and I can pull out game 2).
EDIT: Looks like a lot of builds are running 3 wheel of sun and moon and 1 ravenous trap where I run the 4 leylines. So far I am liking the idea - makes topdecking those cards a lot more relevant than something I can't do anything with.
Wheels are almost made for this deck, so I would surely take them in consideration before placing Voids in.
The build looks pretty good as a whole, and it's true the swords do come in handy vs some meta. I myself love the use of stifle, but I have found a way to get both in my current build {I even added that darn forest to cover any what if's} after adjusting the deck to fit the times.
Good luck member at the event, and I hope you share your thoughts on the new creature!
S.M.
Round 1
I am on the play. I lay an island and pass.
I counter a mox with a spellpierce, and daze a crop rotation. The board was clear for a few turns and he eventually scooped to some creature I played.
I didn't know what he was playing, really. So i removed the nullrods and sided in 2 Jittes and a flux. I saw a Taiga and wasn't sure if I was up against zoo or something.
Game 2
I mull to 5, keep a saph and no land hand. I didn't want to go down any lower. He lands a smokestack and I scoop.
Out go the Jittes, in goes another Flux and a StP
Game 3
I land an early trygon predator and seal the deal.
2-0
Round 2
Against Mono Black
This was a friend of mine, and we tested about 15 games on Friday.
Game 1
I resolved an early Thada Adel, and he Demonic Consultations for Pithing Needle as a response. He learned that if i grab it naming Hexmage, it's GG.
He ends up milling 30 cards or so, and I end up grabbing and casting his helm of obedience.
I mill him a few times (he had maybe 10 cards left, if that) and land a meddling mage naming hexmage. He scoops.
I take out null rods in favor of 2 echoing truths (for Marit Lage) and a StP.
Game 2
He dumps his hand on a thoughtseize and a duress, demonic tutor, rituals, and a Bob. He takes away my two echoing truths.
I draw, play land-mox-goyf (with another in my hand). He plays strip mine to take my only land, and I swing in with a 6/7 goyf turn 2. He draw up damnation taking 4, and a few turns later, it was gg.
2-0
Round 3
Against Stax
Game 1
I was on the draw. He resolves Lodestone Golem turn 1.
I scoop.
Game 2
Thada adel hits, and I steal his lotus. I swing again and steal his crucible, with waste backup. Eventually, it got there.
Game 3
Turn 1 3sphere. No counter backup. Scoop.
2-1
Round 3
Against 5 color Stax
Game 1
I am on the play and resolve a turn 1 Trygon Predator. Not much to say after that.
Game 2
I am on the draw and mulligan to 6. He plays lotus, which I counter with FoW, pitching Time Walk. He plays Crop Rotation, which I also counter with FoW, pitching recall. We play draw-go for a few turns before I get a Trygon in play and 1 in hand.
3-1
I end up IDing with a friend playing goblins to get into top8
Top 8
Against Soly
Game 1
I don't know what he is playing and Lorescale Coatl gets huge. See his list. It was nuts. He ends up assembling vault/key anyway.
Game 2
He draws 2 old man of the sea and gets a giant Coatl.
I am still relatively new to the format, so I think that had to do with some of the mistakes that I had made. Still, I am pleased that I placed.
On that note, Thada has been absolutely outstanding in testing, contrary to what a lot of other people have been saying. I strongly urge you guys to try her out. As for the maindeck StP, I like it, but it turned out to be a little underwhelming. I think I am going to hunt for a different answer.
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This was a friend of mine, and we tested about 15 games on Friday.
Game 1
I resolved an early Thada Adel, and he Demonic Consultations for Pithing Needle as a response. He learned that if i grab it naming Hexmage, it's GG.
He ends up milling 30 cards or so, and I end up grabbing and casting his helm of obedience.
I mill him a few times (he had maybe 10 cards left, if that) and land a meddling mage naming hexmage. He scoops.
I take out null rods in favor of 2 echoing truths (for Marit Lage) and a StP.
Game 2
He dumps his hand on a thoughtseize and a duress, demonic tutor, rituals, and a Bob. He takes away my two echoing truths.
I draw, play land-mox-goyf (with another in my hand). He plays strip mine to take my only land, and I swing in with a 6/7 goyf turn 2. He draw up damnation taking 4, and a few turns later, it was gg.
2-0
Please note that when I ripped the two Truths out of your hand I left you with Misty/goyf/goyf/pridemage and my last card was strip mine. Rips the Mox like a Champ!. Kidding aside, congrats on the T8 Mike, hopefully next time I'm in there too.
Please note that when I ripped the two Truths out of your hand I left you with Misty/goyf/goyf/pridemage and my last card was strip mine. Rips the Mox like a Champ!. Kidding aside, congrats on the T8 Mike, hopefully next time I'm in there too.
It was a bit of luck pulling up the second source, but I knew it was bound to happen. I couldn't ship back a hand with 2 truths in it. Besides, I knew you took out the pithing needle out of fear of the thada-steal, so I figured the fetch was pretty safe. Strip mine in hand or not, that thing wasn't going to get cracked until I had the necessary mana to cast what I needed to.
That being said, I notice that you have dropped your mono black idea altogether. I do not think that it is a bad deck, but there are many ways of play that I'm not sure you took into consideration.
For instance:
When you went for the Demo, I believe you had enough mana to sad-sac instead of duress-Bob. I think this is what I would have done, personally. You knew my list, and I would have taken away either moxen, or my 3 trops. I hear it's really hard to cast goyfs (or anything) with only 5 land left in the deck and 1 green source.
If you took tundras, Meddling Mage would have never hit the table.
Also, would you think that infest is better than damnation in your SB?
Regardless, I think you should keep the deck around atleast for a bit.
Also, have you considered playing any fish variants as you are searching for a new deck? Just from watching you play combo I don't think it is necessarily for you. I know you like the BAM moments, but I was worried that you were going to have a stroke a few times when your combo pieces were disrupted
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It was a bit of luck pulling up the second source, but I knew it was bound to happen. I couldn't ship back a hand with 2 truths in it. Besides, I knew you took out the pithing needle out of fear of the thada-steal, so I figured the fetch was pretty safe. Strip mine in hand or not, that thing wasn't going to get cracked until I had the necessary mana to cast what I needed to.
That being said, I notice that you have dropped your mono black idea altogether. I do not think that it is a bad deck, but there are many ways of play that I'm not sure you took into consideration.
For instance:
When you went for the Demo, I believe you had enough mana to sad-sac instead of duress-Bob. I think this is what I would have done, personally. You knew my list, and I would have taken away either moxen, or my 3 trops. I hear it's really hard to cast goyfs (or anything) with only 5 land left in the deck and 1 green source.
If you took tundras, Meddling Mage would have never hit the table.
Also, would you think that infest is better than damnation in your SB?
Regardless, I think you should keep the deck around atleast for a bit.
Also, have you considered playing any fish variants as you are searching for a new deck? Just from watching you play combo I don't think it is necessarily for you. I know you like the BAM moments, but I was worried that you were going to have a stroke a few times when your combo pieces were disrupted
I don't like playing out my whole hand on turn 1 unless there is a 20/20 or bob involved. If I eat your hand and essentially mine as well we are both in the same position but if I land bob then I will out card you fairly quickly. Sad Sack is not that great and I am sure that they were out for game 2, I believe that leylines, helm, null rod, and sacks came out for gatekeeper, shriekmaw, jittes, 2 jailer (to hold said jitte and be a body) and the misers damnation. And about that damnation. When I first made the deck I was mulling over the sb obtions and thought to myself that the hard matchups would be fish and stax. I knew both were played in our area but at the time a lot of people were still playing GW in addition to all the Bug players and noble fishes, so I decided to go that route. From there I added the kill spells and jitte. Damntion was the 15th card added because I did not want to lose to fat Tarmogoyf, which infest does not answer at all.
Oh, and while you think that combo may not be for me, I counter with the fact that I consider myself a combo player at heart. The first deck I ever top 8'd a major event with was UR Dragonstorm, and since I've played mono red dragonstorm, swathshot, Sunrise Eggs, Mind's Desire and now HexDepths. Interacting with teh opponent is overrated, I like to just win the game.
I also built a new deck last night and its very blue. When combo isn't viable, I love me a good control deck.
I don't reply back you, you don't reply back to me...and you can live in your world of I speak for every vintage player, and I'll speak the light, of there's a larger picture that effects the game.
S.M.
I never said that I was only talking about the East Coast. Where have I said that? You are assuming this. You can read the quote, it states, the East Coast meta has a small % of Fish players considering that this deck has been taking Top 3s consistently [and I never said where. And if you want clarification, then yes, I was stating the whole world] Why would I say that Fish takes Top3s while admitting that Fish is a small % of the meta in the East Coast?
It's okay. It's a misunderstanding.
My Trade Thread
Its POSSIBLE that it will happen, but it is highly, highly unlikely that anyone is going to try to utilize such a low-EV strategy. The higher-EV play is to run Mistys with a Forest and an Island given how the meta is going to shake out with Worldwake's release.
I realize I'm not going to convince you of this, and that's fine - I wasn't really trying to. Just providing a counterpoint to the idea that you want to run just a Basic island and play Windswepth Heath, which I personally believe is incorrect. Just my opinion. Readers can do with it what they want.
Maybe I'll run a poll in an SCG article or on TMD and ask how often its happened to people. Would that help?
EDIT: Food for thought guys... take a look at the lists that you both linked to, and tell me - how many of those lists have 4 Misty Rainforest? Isn't that the crux of this debate? Aren't the very links you're providing proving that the field is, in many cases, running 4 Mistys? Is the whole world on crazy pills?
I wonder how many times we're going to go back and forth with answering my questions, turning it around and then doing it again...
The world isn't on crazy pills...but I know few members that are....{note this isn't a direct hit to you, but hey it could be directed at me...who knows right ;)} so lets just go with we all have a misunderstanding...well me and myw002 seem to be on the same page...but hey that's the real world as we both stated {I found something I can agree with good member},
With that said, 4 misty is going to happen. I have had it named and it sucked, but that was against mono black after a landlock. Yes, I lost as a result, but is oath really going to name misty? or any deck that runs the same land, for that matter?
Voltron, Rome and I were talking and I was curious to know what you thought of selkie in general. From your experience, what would you change in my list in respect to the meta here in the midwest? To see previous top8, see:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39667.0
Any input would be appreciated.
I really do like this deck, but it sounds like it doesn't do very well lately. Atleast not on the coast.
I would like to make this work, and if that is just NOT very viable, the spike in me wants some advice as to which direction to take this.
I love playing, but I love winning even more.
Crazy pills FTW,
M.H
Team Empire
Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Type 1.5
:symw::symu::symg: NO CounterTop
Type II:
Standard is AIDS
Hey look a clown...
Ok back to the crazy world...
Paul glad to see you posting again been quite some time since I've been back east and playing. Ive been out here in the midwest and the meta is a bit diffrent not as many stax decks that im happy about. Though that will be changing weather its stax or its little sister agroshop. The meta out here is pretty much defined by ICBM. Shout out to Carp, King, Solly, and Seroogy. On that note Quik and myself have been doing alot of testing talking and moving things around in all the decks. Get ahold of me more privately if you dont want to feel you have to put on a show for the masses.
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
My Trade Thread
20-30% Tezz
10-15% Shops (although this could very well spike given Lodestone)
8-12% Oath
8-12% Dredge
4-6% TPS
4-6% Keeper
4-6% Fish
Remainder - Misc
So, given that, if I were going to play Fish, I'd probably play 3x Trygon Predator and 3x Thada, b/c that hits the top 3 decks the best I think.
If I'm looking at the 3-drops...
Trygon Predator - Amazing against Oath, good against Shops, decent against Tezz and Keeper, bad against Dredge / Fish / Beats
Aven Mindcensor - Very good against Tezz and Keeper, decent against Oath, bad against Shops / Dredge / Fish / Beats
Cold-Eyed Selkie - Very good against Fish, good against Tezz and Keeper, decent against Oath, bad against Shops / Dredge / Beats
Thada - Very good against Tezz and Keeper, decent to bad against the rest of the field
Out here with the latest event we had I expect to see a pretty big Oath population so based on that Noble is a good choice.
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
Those are all possible. You would probably be better off just grabbing a crucible and wasting them every turn if you have the upper hand. Or fetching every turn so you get +1 permanents each turn plus resources. Thus negating their wires, stax, trin, etc.
AVOID MTG Fanatic ! Remands Orders and Re-lists cards for more money!
Added the Mystical Tutor, Hurkyl's Recall for synergy VS Inwell Leviathan...I know...might not be the best move.
I think 4 Mr. DCI is just a overkill, and that goes for the 4 Rods. I never had a problem with 3 Rods, 4 Pridemage.....so I'm back on that route.
Negate is a killer card {I'm on the ladder with this deck running 4 or not}, so for now I'm sticking to Spell Snare seeing it's also another true vintage hard counter.
Well I'm going to do some testing tonight, and I hope my results bring some positive fruit to report.
S.M.
p.s.
I'm surely being open minded to the member that shared the StP are a must for todays current meta {I can completely understand that statement}, so with that in mind the count is 3 strong....might as well make it worth it.
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
3x Null Rod
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Cold-Eyed Selkie
3x Meddling Mage
3x Tarmogoyf
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Hurkyl's Recall
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Spell Snare
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Windswept Heath
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Flooded Strand
2x Island
3x Tundra
3x Tropical Island
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
3x Trygon Predator
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Curfew
4x Wheel of Sun and Moon
Noble Fish
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Trygon Predator
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
3 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
1 Bant Charm
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Null Rod
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ravenous Trap
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Bant Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
2 Jotun Grunt
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
Deck now looks sufficiently fancy, thanks.
And yes, so far Thada's been pretty awesome against Tezz. I like it more than Aven Mindcensor, and the extra blue cards gave me the room to cut Mage and still feel like I have enough blue for FoW.
Also, I just have a random love of Bant Charm. It really does everything you want... counters Gifts, blows up Time Vault, gets Confidant and Sower out of play, counters Repeal or Chain of Vapor on Null Rod, its great in the mirror as creature control and a hard counter on Swords, and so on. My old list had two main, but I like having 2 Pierce main and it isn't the easiest thing to cast against Shops (although when you can, its awesome).
3x Tropical Island
3x Tundra
3x Wasteland
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Savannah
1x Strip Mine
Dudes:
4x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Meddling Mage
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4x Force of Will
4x Spell Pierce
2x Misdirection
1x Time Walk
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Tinker
Artifacts:
3x Null Rod
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sol Ring
4x Mystic Remora
Board:
3x Hurkyl's Recall
3x Swords to Plowshares
3x Path to Exile
2x Sower of Temptation
4x Wheel of Sun and Moon
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
I don't know yet with this little gem creature...hmm I know it can be a must deal with RIGHT now type of creature vs some archtypes, but I'm on the ladder because of the casting....Selkie swings both ways;).
Now what's the deal with the bant Charm....did I miss something here with a card that's 3`multi-colours? I'm curious on your opinion with the topic VoL? Friendly simple Q that's all, and what are the results like.....is it worth it?
S.M.
Thada dosn't get Dark Blasted. Personally I wasn't a fan when I played Selkie strike at the ICBM double power nine and just missed top 8 cut. I ended up cutting the Nobles and the selkie for more main board answers like cannonist and kataki (Cannonist being newer at the time) took that build to nats and X-0 with no game losses.
That being said Quik plays a noble build that is very good but I like the way this one looks with thada but selkie is a huge drawl engine and makes a big diffrence. Id sooner cut goyf for 3 selkie and 1 StP and 1 Null rod for 1 StP
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Meddling Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
3 Trygon Predator
Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
3 Null Rod
Lands
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Echoing Truth
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Children of Korlis
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Energy Flux
I have been having a lot of success with StP, and I found Stifle to be underwhelming. I suggest people give it a try, really. I have never been disappointed to get rid of a Bob or a Welder.
Also, can anyone provide a breakdown of Leyline vs Wheel of Sun and Moon?
My rationale was that I would have to mulligan to see it in my opening hand to win, regardless. I figure I would rather start with it in play as opposed to having to try to cast it. Especially game 3, where I may not be on the play (assuming dredge steals game 1 and I can pull out game 2).
EDIT: Looks like a lot of builds are running 3 wheel of sun and moon and 1 ravenous trap where I run the 4 leylines. So far I am liking the idea - makes topdecking those cards a lot more relevant than something I can't do anything with.
Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Type 1.5
:symw::symu::symg: NO CounterTop
Type II:
Standard is AIDS
The build looks pretty good as a whole, and it's true the swords do come in handy vs some meta. I myself love the use of stifle, but I have found a way to get both in my current build {I even added that darn forest to cover any what if's} after adjusting the deck to fit the times.
Good luck member at the event, and I hope you share your thoughts on the new creature!
S.M.
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39854.0
Here is a breakdown of how my matches went.
Round 1
vs Stax
Round 1
I am on the play. I lay an island and pass.
I counter a mox with a spellpierce, and daze a crop rotation. The board was clear for a few turns and he eventually scooped to some creature I played.
I didn't know what he was playing, really. So i removed the nullrods and sided in 2 Jittes and a flux. I saw a Taiga and wasn't sure if I was up against zoo or something.
Game 2
I mull to 5, keep a saph and no land hand. I didn't want to go down any lower. He lands a smokestack and I scoop.
Out go the Jittes, in goes another Flux and a StP
Game 3
I land an early trygon predator and seal the deal.
2-0
Round 2
Against Mono Black
This was a friend of mine, and we tested about 15 games on Friday.
Game 1
I resolved an early Thada Adel, and he Demonic Consultations for Pithing Needle as a response. He learned that if i grab it naming Hexmage, it's GG.
He ends up milling 30 cards or so, and I end up grabbing and casting his helm of obedience.
I mill him a few times (he had maybe 10 cards left, if that) and land a meddling mage naming hexmage. He scoops.
I take out null rods in favor of 2 echoing truths (for Marit Lage) and a StP.
Game 2
He dumps his hand on a thoughtseize and a duress, demonic tutor, rituals, and a Bob. He takes away my two echoing truths.
I draw, play land-mox-goyf (with another in my hand). He plays strip mine to take my only land, and I swing in with a 6/7 goyf turn 2. He draw up damnation taking 4, and a few turns later, it was gg.
2-0
Round 3
Against Stax
Game 1
I was on the draw. He resolves Lodestone Golem turn 1.
I scoop.
Game 2
Thada adel hits, and I steal his lotus. I swing again and steal his crucible, with waste backup. Eventually, it got there.
Game 3
Turn 1 3sphere. No counter backup. Scoop.
2-1
Round 3
Against 5 color Stax
Game 1
I am on the play and resolve a turn 1 Trygon Predator. Not much to say after that.
Game 2
I am on the draw and mulligan to 6. He plays lotus, which I counter with FoW, pitching Time Walk. He plays Crop Rotation, which I also counter with FoW, pitching recall. We play draw-go for a few turns before I get a Trygon in play and 1 in hand.
3-1
I end up IDing with a friend playing goblins to get into top8
Top 8
Against Soly
Game 1
I don't know what he is playing and Lorescale Coatl gets huge. See his list. It was nuts. He ends up assembling vault/key anyway.
Game 2
He draws 2 old man of the sea and gets a giant Coatl.
I am still relatively new to the format, so I think that had to do with some of the mistakes that I had made. Still, I am pleased that I placed.
On that note, Thada has been absolutely outstanding in testing, contrary to what a lot of other people have been saying. I strongly urge you guys to try her out. As for the maindeck StP, I like it, but it turned out to be a little underwhelming. I think I am going to hunt for a different answer.
Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Type 1.5
:symw::symu::symg: NO CounterTop
Type II:
Standard is AIDS
Please note that when I ripped the two Truths out of your hand I left you with Misty/goyf/goyf/pridemage and my last card was strip mine. Rips the Mox like a Champ!. Kidding aside, congrats on the T8 Mike, hopefully next time I'm in there too.
It was a bit of luck pulling up the second source, but I knew it was bound to happen. I couldn't ship back a hand with 2 truths in it. Besides, I knew you took out the pithing needle out of fear of the thada-steal, so I figured the fetch was pretty safe. Strip mine in hand or not, that thing wasn't going to get cracked until I had the necessary mana to cast what I needed to.
That being said, I notice that you have dropped your mono black idea altogether. I do not think that it is a bad deck, but there are many ways of play that I'm not sure you took into consideration.
For instance:
When you went for the Demo, I believe you had enough mana to sad-sac instead of duress-Bob. I think this is what I would have done, personally. You knew my list, and I would have taken away either moxen, or my 3 trops. I hear it's really hard to cast goyfs (or anything) with only 5 land left in the deck and 1 green source.
If you took tundras, Meddling Mage would have never hit the table.
Also, would you think that infest is better than damnation in your SB?
Regardless, I think you should keep the deck around atleast for a bit.
Also, have you considered playing any fish variants as you are searching for a new deck? Just from watching you play combo I don't think it is necessarily for you. I know you like the BAM moments, but I was worried that you were going to have a stroke a few times when your combo pieces were disrupted
Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Type 1.5
:symw::symu::symg: NO CounterTop
Type II:
Standard is AIDS
I don't like playing out my whole hand on turn 1 unless there is a 20/20 or bob involved. If I eat your hand and essentially mine as well we are both in the same position but if I land bob then I will out card you fairly quickly. Sad Sack is not that great and I am sure that they were out for game 2, I believe that leylines, helm, null rod, and sacks came out for gatekeeper, shriekmaw, jittes, 2 jailer (to hold said jitte and be a body) and the misers damnation. And about that damnation. When I first made the deck I was mulling over the sb obtions and thought to myself that the hard matchups would be fish and stax. I knew both were played in our area but at the time a lot of people were still playing GW in addition to all the Bug players and noble fishes, so I decided to go that route. From there I added the kill spells and jitte. Damntion was the 15th card added because I did not want to lose to fat Tarmogoyf, which infest does not answer at all.
Oh, and while you think that combo may not be for me, I counter with the fact that I consider myself a combo player at heart. The first deck I ever top 8'd a major event with was UR Dragonstorm, and since I've played mono red dragonstorm, swathshot, Sunrise Eggs, Mind's Desire and now HexDepths. Interacting with teh opponent is overrated, I like to just win the game.
I also built a new deck last night and its very blue. When combo isn't viable, I love me a good control deck.