Oh thanks. How's BobStorm? Is that just TPS with Bob? lol. But yeah, kinda wish there was a viable deck like Keeper used to be.
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Don't get me wrong, playing Dredge is one of my guilty pleasures, along with eating chunky monkey ice cream and watching my Gilmore Girls DVDs in my underpants, but it's pretty much, in my opinion, the very last deck that I'd want anyone to start a career in Vintage with.
If you're looking for "BobStorm" stuff it's mostly known as GWSx and you should be able to find primers out there. There is "a viable deck just like Keeper used to be", it's called "The Deck 2K9" and there's a thread here, as well as a Menendian SCG article (which is currently Premium only, should be free around 3/14/10)
EDIT: Forgot to mention that there should also be a free article about The Deck2K9 on SCG written by Pat Chapin as well.
Oh thanks. How's BobStorm? Is that just TPS with Bob? lol. But yeah, kinda wish there was a viable deck like Keeper used to be.
The concept is rather the same, but it has a more stable playout. Since I've been playing this archtype since almost the creation I can share that yes bobs surely give it the extra tempo, but they also serve as a swing for 2 a turn slave reducing the storm count later....making the deck much more viable for that leathal storm. This archtype also can play out of dangerous situations were the normal TPS build falls short if the early rush is stopped.
I don't have much info to give on the keeper comment {I'm still building and testing this TECH deck} so maybe Doom can help with a PM later for you.
Anyways I hope you have found this to be some help, and if you want a primer for Bob'Storm I'm sure I can whip one up for you later. There's no doubt that GWSx aka Bob'Storm is one of the most solid tier decks as of late. I would recommend if you're thinking about playing a tendrils build that this is the one to try first.
S.M.
I played in my first vintage tourny today and essentially won with this list. I went 4-0 beating Affinity, Workshop-Staxs, Oath, and Stifle Nought. I know that the last 3 players were highly skilled in type 1. The first guy got the news late that it was Vintage and not Standard so his list wasnt that ready.
Null Rod costs 2 and is a lot easier to get out turn 1. Energy Flux will be too late to matter vs a lot of stuff, it doesn't prevent broken stuff with things like Lotus, Memory Jar, etc
You're playing Wastelands and Strip Mine in this deck, you don't want to give them extra lands
Null Rod costs 2 and is a lot easier to get out turn 1. Energy Flux will be too late to matter vs a lot of stuff, it doesn't prevent broken stuff with things like Lotus, Memory Jar, etc
You're playing Wastelands and Strip Mine in this deck, you don't want to give them extra lands
I understand that its easier to get out on turn 1 or 2 but in the stax matchup I had tonight. If I land a t2 or t3 flux its a near scoop, pretty much. The only match up I would have prefered Rod for was the Affinity match and that was really easy with Predator and Pridemages.
I think of all the games I watched besides myself and 2 other perople I saw no basic lands. Maybe it was just the meta, but their was only like 8 basics between almost 15-20 people, and I had 4 of them.
Idk Ill have to start looking out side of my first tourny to see what I can come up with
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Vintage: UWG Poorman Aggro UWG
That's why Energy Flux is in the sideboard, it's only really good vs Stax. Tezz or Combo players will just hold the artifacts they need and then play them when they're going off or they need the mana boost. Much less effective than Null Rod, which stops them from using them altogether.
There should be plenty of basic lands around. Almost every competitive deck plays some for immunity to Wasteland. Path is definitely bad when you're playing land destruction.
Couple of questions for the vets playing this archetype, mostly stemming from board.
I have seen (3) slots dedicated to dredge, differing between wheel of sun and moon, pithing needle (I assume for bazaar), Tormod's Crypt, and singleton Relics of Progenitus. Which has been the most effective? My meta is pretty heavy in dredge and oath, and was planning on running wheels (though I have heard the argument that it is too slow?). What are your thoughts on this?
I was going to replace Kataki with energy flux, but with Kataki, dude swings. Which has been better in testing?
Finally, I was looking at Thada Adel from WWK as a possible 2 of. I think she could be good. I don't plan on adopting her straight away, but will be picking up a playset based solely on potential (and the fact that she's cheap).
Finally, there are some Goblin and Elf decks that have made their way into my meta. Is there any way to really handle them besides the singleton Jitte in the SB?
Couple of questions for the vets playing this archetype, mostly stemming from board.
I have seen (3) slots dedicated to dredge, differing between wheel of sun and moon, pithing needle (I assume for bazaar), Tormod's Crypt, and singleton Relics of Progenitus. Which has been the most effective? My meta is pretty heavy in dredge and oath, and was planning on running wheels (though I have heard the argument that it is too slow?). What are your thoughts on this?
I was going to replace Kataki with energy flux, but with Kataki, dude swings. Which has been better in testing?
Finally, I was looking at Thada Adel from WWK as a possible 2 of. I think she could be good. I don't plan on adopting her straight away, but will be picking up a playset based solely on potential (and the fact that she's cheap).
Finally, there are some Goblin and Elf decks that have made their way into my meta. Is there any way to really handle them besides the singleton Jitte in the SB?
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Kataki, War's Wage (energy flux?)
1 Meddling Mage (necessary?)
1 Relic of Progenitus (necessary with wheels?)
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Trygon Predator (2 enough?)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (1 enough?)
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon (Over Tormod's?)
Maindeck is identical to the two winning ones in above post by SM.
Would it be worth it to add in 2 ghostly prisons? If yes, over what?
Meta breakdown of last tournament:
Couple of Mono/Sui Black with Sad Sac, Hexmage, Leyline Combo
Couple of The Deck 2k9
Not much fish, I bet there will be more as people were trying out WG beats
Couple Goblins/Elf decks
3 Stax decks or so
2 TPS
2 Aggro Shop
LOTS of oath
Those are the only ones I can really remember coming across from the 40 people or so.
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Kataki, War's Wage (energy flux?)
1 Meddling Mage (necessary?)
1 Relic of Progenitus (necessary with wheels?)
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Trygon Predator (2 enough?)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (1 enough?)
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon (Over Tormod's?)
Not excited about that board to be honest with you bro.
I tested wheels out alot and I was not impressed it was simply too slow vs crypt. Now with new said lands i would go 2 crypt 2 lands or even run leyline (yes its black but u mull vs dredge till u get it.)
Jitte running a 1 of isnt going to do anything for you in board % chance to see will be way too low needs to be a 2 of if your looking at that for more of a mirror.
Your forgetting a huge thing here as well and thats Tinkering in a big dude what way do you want to deal with him. Curfew is a good one pops to hand instead of killing makes Oath much less of a threat thats why that was my choice when i was playing this before moving to stax.
With kataki being main board I like Flux 1 its an ench and 2 it makes them pay 2. I heard if your opp kills it it makes goyf bigger and that seems good.
for what your trying to do i think Hurkyls recall is almost a dead spot. What i think is better there is eather Aura of silence or Serienty thats going to take care of all the issues your looking at with recall.
Preds I like running 3 main personaly because even if they dont cap an art they swing in the air and they have an ass of 3 big enough to kill and live though 90% of the beats in the format (minus tinker targets goyf and jug-o-spheres now)
3 swords is good
the 1 mage isnt a big deal with 3 in main
the relic can be removed if you run 2 and 2 of the lands and crypts or leylines
the echoing truth is good against dredge but so is a powder keg or a dude you can cap yourself
Missing also a Combo breaker such as cannonist or teeg or traps personaly i like the cannonist cuz dude swings and still stops alot of the spell count bs.
Granted im not a fish player as you know there quicky but i played it for awhile. I think the board should be something along this
3 swords
2 echoing truth
2 curfew
2 energy flux
2 serienity
2 crypt
2 crypt lands
it would be good to have needles and or the jittes and cannonists in board but thats more of a meta call with those 3 this is more of a solid overall board.
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:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
where to start...
First the sideboard as noted throughout most of this thread has been proven to handle todays meta {note I'm not reffering to rogue or casual decks} so you must take that in mind when you view them.
Second;
Kataki is a proven tempo controller that swings for turns and turns to come once resolved.
Trygon can be ranged between the 2-3 count, but is a must in some matchups. This is where your fight for flux is now dissmissed {if you were playing bug you would have flux in SB and trygons Main}.
Relic can be dropped altogether and is a personal choice since the WoSM will handle most cases with ease {again proven}.
Wheel of Sun and Moon isn't slow when taking in aspects against dredge, you'll probably never get that zero drop crypt out when it matters {think chalice}....and 2 mana is silly good when thinking about how their game is almost surely but ended.
The one Jitte can bounce between 1-2, but in most cases the actual card itself doesn't have an impact though most current events. It's just in side for that random case vs rogue.
Swords of Plowshare is almost worthless in vintage, so having maybe 1 or 2 is all that is needed at most {think meta and Inkwell}.
Bottomline is the sideboard you posted wouldn't get you past the meta of todays current powerhouses, and since you openly admited that you aren't a fish player [active} I would give the current post that share them a whirl.
I myself play this version and can share that most of the current staples in SB are a given to face todays meta...with that in mind...I'm out.
S.M.
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Kataki, War's Wage (energy flux?)
1 Meddling Mage (necessary?)
1 Relic of Progenitus (necessary with wheels?)
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Trygon Predator (2 enough?)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (1 enough?)
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon (Over Tormod's?)
Not excited about that board to be honest with you bro.
I tested wheels out alot and I was not impressed it was simply too slow vs crypt. Now with new said lands i would go 2 crypt 2 lands or even run leyline (yes its black but u mull vs dredge till u get it.)
Jitte running a 1 of isnt going to do anything for you in board % chance to see will be way too low needs to be a 2 of if your looking at that for more of a mirror.
Your forgetting a huge thing here as well and thats Tinkering in a big dude what way do you want to deal with him. Curfew is a good one pops to hand instead of killing makes Oath much less of a threat thats why that was my choice when i was playing this before moving to stax.
With kataki being main board I like Flux 1 its an ench and 2 it makes them pay 2. I heard if your opp kills it it makes goyf bigger and that seems good.
for what your trying to do i think Hurkyls recall is almost a dead spot. What i think is better there is eather Aura of silence or Serienty thats going to take care of all the issues your looking at with recall.
Preds I like running 3 main personaly because even if they dont cap an art they swing in the air and they have an ass of 3 big enough to kill and live though 90% of the beats in the format (minus tinker targets goyf and jug-o-spheres now)
3 swords is good
the 1 mage isnt a big deal with 3 in main
the relic can be removed if you run 2 and 2 of the lands and crypts or leylines
the echoing truth is good against dredge but so is a powder keg or a dude you can cap yourself
Missing also a Combo breaker such as cannonist or teeg or traps personaly i like the cannonist cuz dude swings and still stops alot of the spell count bs.
Granted im not a fish player as you know there quicky but i played it for awhile. I think the board should be something along this
3 swords
2 echoing truth
2 curfew
2 energy flux
2 serienity
2 crypt
2 crypt lands
it would be good to have needles and or the jittes and cannonists in board but thats more of a meta call with those 3 this is more of a solid overall board.
where to start...
First the sideboard as noted throughout most of this thread has been proven to handle todays meta {note I'm not reffering to rogue or casual decks} so you must take that in mind when you view them.
Second;
Kataki is a proven tempo controller that swings for turns and turns to come once resolved.
Trygon can be ranged between the 2-3 count, but is a must in some matchups. This is where your fight for flux is now dissmissed {if you were playing bug you would have flux in SB and trygons Main}.
Relic can be dropped altogether and is a personal choice since the WoSM will handle most cases with ease {again proven}.
Wheel of Sun and Moon isn't slow when taking in aspects against dredge, you'll probably never get that zero drop crypt out when it matters {think chalice}....and 2 mana is silly good when thinking about how their game is almost surely but ended.
The one Jitte can bounce between 1-2, but in most cases the actual card itself doesn't have an impact though most current events. It's just in side for that random case vs rogue.
Swords of Plowshare is almost worthless in vintage, so having maybe 1 or 2 is all that is needed at most {think meta and Inkwell}.
Bottomline is the sideboard you posted wouldn't get you past the meta of todays current powerhouses, and since you openly admited that you aren't a fish player [active} I would give the current post that share them a whirl.
I myself play this version and can share that most of the current staples in SB are a given to face todays meta...with that in mind...I'm out.
S.M.
Well where to start on my side too. First and formost I am an Active vintage player who plays every deck in test just when it comes to tourny play I play stax yes. Quick who knows me knows I know how to and do play fish well I X-0 in at nats tourny and played the noble version the bant version and the bug version I even played the esper version for one tourny as well. (granted tez was hotter then but the meta sway is not to far away)
2ndly Swords is a must have if you are not playing black think meta as you say (Bob, Welder, Goyf, selkie, tombstalker, darkdepths, the token oath gives you..., the list goes on you get it)
The wheel I disagree with due to 1 card that wrecks fish challice for 2 that shuts down a ton of your hate. thats thinking meta so what is in essence better the 0 cost tormod and the new lands or the wheels i think thats an obivous choice sine the land cant be countered.
trygon main board is amazing why do you play it main bc dude is swinging for at them and not much can block it and its bad to take away the other answers like that challice for 2 or 0 away i think it seems good
you also mentioned a point I made in the tinker target dude such as a solution in curfew, and lets not forget Iona who is usualy called on white or black so a blue return spell for her seems good at instant speed and for 1 that dosnt target so you could get inkwell as well.
I also like flux due to the fact it is a 3 drop like I said that exta 2 slot could be a prefrence choice.
but on a sideboard I feel would get by the "powerhouse" meta because I am playing in it with 5c Stax, also lets not forget your meta could be diffrent then ours and seeing how he is in my meta i think the sugestion was valid and don't really like the attack at me, but this is why I dont talk much on here or any other boards for that matter for the fact of know it all people when someone in said meta was adding a thought. So thank you for that have a great day and Maze it Sir
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:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
and don't really like the attack at me, but this is why I dont talk much on here or any other boards for that matter for the fact of know it all people when someone in said meta was adding a thought. So thank you for that have a great day and Maze it Sir
No attack at you, and if you thought it was I apologize then. Trust me it's one of the reason I don't post nearly as much do these days seeing others have sensitivity issues {not many but a handful} when I do make my comments {hense your reply missing my points and taking it as a direct hit to you like I even care...meaning my goal isn't to highlight you as a person but to stay focused on the thread, and if you feel that why with only 3 posts in on this site...then trust me when I say others are even more blunt then me...so don't take us/them so personal:)} as of late.
If your deck is tuned you won't need Swords, that new land, Energy FLux, Echoing truth ect {I can provide net proof if that's what you seek}. But you're right about one thing and that's the meta a person faces. My meta contains Iona, Unseen, Noble, Ant, Stax, DrainTendrils, BUG, DarkTimes {I face no rogue sadly, my meta and team members are why to competitive to bend outside their strong decks} ect. So in my personal situations is all I can share about.
Take care and I wish you luck with your deck and future post.
S.M.
I also have tested around the meta as quik explained our meta as it stands now it sways very heavy month to month. You will see just about anything when it comes to the decks out here. I had stax tez fish (bug noble bant and esper) and mono black built just for testing reasons for awhile. with my team as well we can have the meta basicly covered testing wise with everything. Granted the diffrences in metas will choose and dictate what the sideboard consists of is the point I was getting at and the one i was trying to hint at.
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:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
My meta contains Iona, Unseen, Noble, Ant, Stax, DrainTendrils, BUG, DarkTimes {I face no rogue sadly, my meta and team members are why to competitive to bend outside their strong decks} ect. So in my personal situations is all I can share about.
S.M.,
Could you post what you board out/in for said matchups?
The boarding in part doesn't seem too too difficult, but I want to make sure I'm not taking anything too important out.
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Currently Playing: Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Could you post what you board out/in for said matchups?
The boarding in part doesn't seem too too difficult, but I want to make sure I'm not taking anything too important out.
I sure can good member,
THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO....
This is a tourney report that I'll use for an example mold;
Now we'll handle a Stax Match-up first {this is the cake walk, so understand that prespective first and all will fall together} since it is becoming more and more played.
Out
1- Misdirection {this is flatout pointless}
3- Null Rod {this is something that is almost pointless vs the meta STAX}
2- Cold-Eyed Selkie {this are wonderful, but adding the Grunt will cause early damage and allow me to gain back my lands}
In
1+ Energy Flux {note this version has maindeck STAX worse Nightmare in Trygon Predators...don't be fooled this a auto scoop in some situations...the predators that's...Flux picks up the slack}
3+ Wheel of Sun and Moon {this allows their game plan to be hindered seeing everything will recur back into their decks allowing Strip plans to problemsome....smokestack/crucible what?....hell there have been times I have enchanted myself to ensure I gain all my lost cards back, Lands and ect to Smokestax leaving my Grunts to eat their yard}
2+ Jotun Grunt {Noted}
Now this verion runs Swords in the deck and side so you have to feel that out.
Instead of giving all my siding habits I think if you have a direct question on which archtype you want i'll share future advice. because I'm short on time at the moment.
This example I have shared though is a solid route with regards to handling Stax and taking a win to advance in a event....so to speak
S.M.
Would Thada Adel, Merfolk Acquisitor be viable here? It seems to be quite the bomb, at the very least grabbing a mox, at best exiling their Time Vault or Inkwell Leviathan.
It won a tourney three times as large, but... Children of Korlis... is this some tech I don't really understand? What's that in against? Inkwell stall?
It won a tourney three times as large, but... Children of Korlis... is this some tech I don't really understand? What's that in against? Inkwell stall?
Not sure if this belongs here, didn't see a separate thread for a fish deck in these colors without the Selkies. Usually called "Noble Fish". Anyway Matt Elias recently took 4th at a 48 man tournament with Noble Fish. Report here
EDIT: Thanks for the heads-up, SM. Fixed the link.
It won a tourney three times as large, but... Children of Korlis... is this some tech I don't really understand? What's that in against? Inkwell stall?
On the ladder for the main StP, but we I have a few team members that are claiming this is the strongest build to date as for keeping a consistant amount of control throughout the game.
I myself caught the list of the MORPH so later I'll do some testing. I can share that I have dropped the stifle as a whole about 2 months ago and haven't even felt the pinch with regards to what they bring to the table. Now the Children of Korlis is almost a must with todays storm meta and serve as a total reverse tempo threat if an opp can't handle the little 1 drop;).
Will report later to you on more of my thoughts bud.
Oh Doom this is the Noble`Goyf thread so by all means you can post any content that has relative material, and to note your LINK IS BROKE BUD so you might want to edit that so others can have access to the deck you're sharing:).
S.M.
I still don't know about this creature, but so far the shell for the archtype is pretty full. I don't see her being a choice in the future for the deck that holds Rods, Pridemages, Meddlings ect main.
I guess time will tell, but I can share my teammate has tested a bit and the results are hindering to date. I suppose if something is winning first place on a regular basis why mess it up.
I have to say this new version with Negate....and yes even the StP is probably the best build I have tested so far. In my team games I have to yank the STP's out 90% of the time...but I know it's best to be safe then to be sorry.
S.M.
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My Trade Thread
EDIT: Forgot to mention that there should also be a free article about The Deck2K9 on SCG written by Pat Chapin as well.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
The concept is rather the same, but it has a more stable playout. Since I've been playing this archtype since almost the creation I can share that yes bobs surely give it the extra tempo, but they also serve as a swing for 2 a turn slave reducing the storm count later....making the deck much more viable for that leathal storm. This archtype also can play out of dangerous situations were the normal TPS build falls short if the early rush is stopped.
I don't have much info to give on the keeper comment {I'm still building and testing this TECH deck} so maybe Doom can help with a PM later for you.
Anyways I hope you have found this to be some help, and if you want a primer for Bob'Storm I'm sure I can whip one up for you later. There's no doubt that GWSx aka Bob'Storm is one of the most solid tier decks as of late. I would recommend if you're thinking about playing a tendrils build that this is the one to try first.
S.M.
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Cold-Eye Selkie
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Meddling Mage
2x Trygon Predator
4x Force of Will
3x Spell Pierce
3x Daze
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Path to Exile
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
1x Time Walk
1x Plains
2x Forest
4x Flooded Strand
2x Flooded Strand
1x Strip Mine
3x Wasteland
4x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Energy Flux
3x Ravenous Trap
3x Ghostly Prision
2x Krosan Grip
1x Echoing Truth
I have 2 main questions.
1.Why is Null Rod played over Energy Flux main? It just seems better to completely clear boards.
2. Why does path get hated on by everyone? There are not that many deck that run alot of basic lands. Especially Workshop-stax and oath.
I just wanted to know what people with a lot more experience thought.
Type 2: UBControlBW
Extended: UWBGControlGBWU
Legacy:UWRGContolUWRG
Vintage: UWG Poorman Aggro UWG
You're playing Wastelands and Strip Mine in this deck, you don't want to give them extra lands
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
I understand that its easier to get out on turn 1 or 2 but in the stax matchup I had tonight. If I land a t2 or t3 flux its a near scoop, pretty much. The only match up I would have prefered Rod for was the Affinity match and that was really easy with Predator and Pridemages.
I think of all the games I watched besides myself and 2 other perople I saw no basic lands. Maybe it was just the meta, but their was only like 8 basics between almost 15-20 people, and I had 4 of them.
Idk Ill have to start looking out side of my first tourny to see what I can come up with
Type 2: UBControlBW
Extended: UWBGControlGBWU
Legacy:UWRGContolUWRG
Vintage: UWG Poorman Aggro UWG
There should be plenty of basic lands around. Almost every competitive deck plays some for immunity to Wasteland. Path is definitely bad when you're playing land destruction.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
I have seen (3) slots dedicated to dredge, differing between wheel of sun and moon, pithing needle (I assume for bazaar), Tormod's Crypt, and singleton Relics of Progenitus. Which has been the most effective? My meta is pretty heavy in dredge and oath, and was planning on running wheels (though I have heard the argument that it is too slow?). What are your thoughts on this?
I was going to replace Kataki with energy flux, but with Kataki, dude swings. Which has been better in testing?
Finally, I was looking at Thada Adel from WWK as a possible 2 of. I think she could be good. I don't plan on adopting her straight away, but will be picking up a playset based solely on potential (and the fact that she's cheap).
Finally, there are some Goblin and Elf decks that have made their way into my meta. Is there any way to really handle them besides the singleton Jitte in the SB?
Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Type 1.5
:symw::symu::symg: NO CounterTop
Type II:
Standard is AIDS
what does your sideboard look like now?
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Kataki, War's Wage (energy flux?)
1 Meddling Mage (necessary?)
1 Relic of Progenitus (necessary with wheels?)
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Trygon Predator (2 enough?)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (1 enough?)
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon (Over Tormod's?)
Maindeck is identical to the two winning ones in above post by SM.
Would it be worth it to add in 2 ghostly prisons? If yes, over what?
Meta breakdown of last tournament:
Couple of Mono/Sui Black with Sad Sac, Hexmage, Leyline Combo
Couple of The Deck 2k9
Not much fish, I bet there will be more as people were trying out WG beats
Couple Goblins/Elf decks
3 Stax decks or so
2 TPS
2 Aggro Shop
LOTS of oath
Those are the only ones I can really remember coming across from the 40 people or so.
Top 8 Report of the tourney here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39667.0
Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Type 1.5
:symw::symu::symg: NO CounterTop
Type II:
Standard is AIDS
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Kataki, War's Wage (energy flux?)
1 Meddling Mage (necessary?)
1 Relic of Progenitus (necessary with wheels?)
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Trygon Predator (2 enough?)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (1 enough?)
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon (Over Tormod's?)
Not excited about that board to be honest with you bro.
I tested wheels out alot and I was not impressed it was simply too slow vs crypt. Now with new said lands i would go 2 crypt 2 lands or even run leyline (yes its black but u mull vs dredge till u get it.)
Jitte running a 1 of isnt going to do anything for you in board % chance to see will be way too low needs to be a 2 of if your looking at that for more of a mirror.
Your forgetting a huge thing here as well and thats Tinkering in a big dude what way do you want to deal with him. Curfew is a good one pops to hand instead of killing makes Oath much less of a threat thats why that was my choice when i was playing this before moving to stax.
With kataki being main board I like Flux 1 its an ench and 2 it makes them pay 2. I heard if your opp kills it it makes goyf bigger and that seems good.
for what your trying to do i think Hurkyls recall is almost a dead spot. What i think is better there is eather Aura of silence or Serienty thats going to take care of all the issues your looking at with recall.
Preds I like running 3 main personaly because even if they dont cap an art they swing in the air and they have an ass of 3 big enough to kill and live though 90% of the beats in the format (minus tinker targets goyf and jug-o-spheres now)
3 swords is good
the 1 mage isnt a big deal with 3 in main
the relic can be removed if you run 2 and 2 of the lands and crypts or leylines
the echoing truth is good against dredge but so is a powder keg or a dude you can cap yourself
Missing also a Combo breaker such as cannonist or teeg or traps personaly i like the cannonist cuz dude swings and still stops alot of the spell count bs.
Granted im not a fish player as you know there quicky but i played it for awhile. I think the board should be something along this
3 swords
2 echoing truth
2 curfew
2 energy flux
2 serienity
2 crypt
2 crypt lands
it would be good to have needles and or the jittes and cannonists in board but thats more of a meta call with those 3 this is more of a solid overall board.
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
First the sideboard as noted throughout most of this thread has been proven to handle todays meta {note I'm not reffering to rogue or casual decks} so you must take that in mind when you view them.
Second;
Kataki is a proven tempo controller that swings for turns and turns to come once resolved.
Trygon can be ranged between the 2-3 count, but is a must in some matchups. This is where your fight for flux is now dissmissed {if you were playing bug you would have flux in SB and trygons Main}.
Relic can be dropped altogether and is a personal choice since the WoSM will handle most cases with ease {again proven}.
Wheel of Sun and Moon isn't slow when taking in aspects against dredge, you'll probably never get that zero drop crypt out when it matters {think chalice}....and 2 mana is silly good when thinking about how their game is almost surely but ended.
The one Jitte can bounce between 1-2, but in most cases the actual card itself doesn't have an impact though most current events. It's just in side for that random case vs rogue.
Swords of Plowshare is almost worthless in vintage, so having maybe 1 or 2 is all that is needed at most {think meta and Inkwell}.
Bottomline is the sideboard you posted wouldn't get you past the meta of todays current powerhouses, and since you openly admited that you aren't a fish player [active} I would give the current post that share them a whirl.
I myself play this version and can share that most of the current staples in SB are a given to face todays meta...with that in mind...I'm out.
S.M.
Well where to start on my side too. First and formost I am an Active vintage player who plays every deck in test just when it comes to tourny play I play stax yes. Quick who knows me knows I know how to and do play fish well I X-0 in at nats tourny and played the noble version the bant version and the bug version I even played the esper version for one tourny as well. (granted tez was hotter then but the meta sway is not to far away)
2ndly Swords is a must have if you are not playing black think meta as you say (Bob, Welder, Goyf, selkie, tombstalker, darkdepths, the token oath gives you..., the list goes on you get it)
The wheel I disagree with due to 1 card that wrecks fish challice for 2 that shuts down a ton of your hate. thats thinking meta so what is in essence better the 0 cost tormod and the new lands or the wheels i think thats an obivous choice sine the land cant be countered.
trygon main board is amazing why do you play it main bc dude is swinging for at them and not much can block it and its bad to take away the other answers like that challice for 2 or 0 away i think it seems good
you also mentioned a point I made in the tinker target dude such as a solution in curfew, and lets not forget Iona who is usualy called on white or black so a blue return spell for her seems good at instant speed and for 1 that dosnt target so you could get inkwell as well.
I also like flux due to the fact it is a 3 drop like I said that exta 2 slot could be a prefrence choice.
but on a sideboard I feel would get by the "powerhouse" meta because I am playing in it with 5c Stax, also lets not forget your meta could be diffrent then ours and seeing how he is in my meta i think the sugestion was valid and don't really like the attack at me, but this is why I dont talk much on here or any other boards for that matter for the fact of know it all people when someone in said meta was adding a thought. So thank you for that have a great day and Maze it Sir
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
No attack at you, and if you thought it was I apologize then. Trust me it's one of the reason I don't post nearly as much do these days seeing others have sensitivity issues {not many but a handful} when I do make my comments {hense your reply missing my points and taking it as a direct hit to you like I even care...meaning my goal isn't to highlight you as a person but to stay focused on the thread, and if you feel that why with only 3 posts in on this site...then trust me when I say others are even more blunt then me...so don't take us/them so personal:)} as of late.
If your deck is tuned you won't need Swords, that new land, Energy FLux, Echoing truth ect {I can provide net proof if that's what you seek}. But you're right about one thing and that's the meta a person faces. My meta contains Iona, Unseen, Noble, Ant, Stax, DrainTendrils, BUG, DarkTimes {I face no rogue sadly, my meta and team members are why to competitive to bend outside their strong decks} ect. So in my personal situations is all I can share about.
Take care and I wish you luck with your deck and future post.
S.M.
I also have tested around the meta as quik explained our meta as it stands now it sways very heavy month to month. You will see just about anything when it comes to the decks out here. I had stax tez fish (bug noble bant and esper) and mono black built just for testing reasons for awhile. with my team as well we can have the meta basicly covered testing wise with everything. Granted the diffrences in metas will choose and dictate what the sideboard consists of is the point I was getting at and the one i was trying to hint at.
:xmana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Empire Stax:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana:
S.M.,
Could you post what you board out/in for said matchups?
The boarding in part doesn't seem too too difficult, but I want to make sure I'm not taking anything too important out.
Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Type 1.5
:symw::symu::symg: NO CounterTop
Type II:
Standard is AIDS
I sure can good member,
THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO....
This is a tourney report that I'll use for an example mold;
Now we'll handle a Stax Match-up first {this is the cake walk, so understand that prespective first and all will fall together} since it is becoming more and more played.
Out
1- Misdirection {this is flatout pointless}
3- Null Rod {this is something that is almost pointless vs the meta STAX}
2- Cold-Eyed Selkie {this are wonderful, but adding the Grunt will cause early damage and allow me to gain back my lands}
In
1+ Energy Flux {note this version has maindeck STAX worse Nightmare in Trygon Predators...don't be fooled this a auto scoop in some situations...the predators that's...Flux picks up the slack}
3+ Wheel of Sun and Moon {this allows their game plan to be hindered seeing everything will recur back into their decks allowing Strip plans to problemsome....smokestack/crucible what?....hell there have been times I have enchanted myself to ensure I gain all my lost cards back, Lands and ect to Smokestax leaving my Grunts to eat their yard}
2+ Jotun Grunt {Noted}
Now this verion runs Swords in the deck and side so you have to feel that out.
Instead of giving all my siding habits I think if you have a direct question on which archtype you want i'll share future advice. because I'm short on time at the moment.
This example I have shared though is a solid route with regards to handling Stax and taking a win to advance in a event....so to speak
S.M.
I like this build a lot, but it differs from many skeletons I have seen.
Have you tried this build? How is the MD misdirection and lack of stifles treating you? Also, how is it with just 2 Tarmogoyfs?
I had originally planned on running the 3 stifle 3 goyf version, but I really like the idea of MD Trygons (could not fit before).
Type I:
:symu::symb::symr: Remora Control
Type 1.5
:symw::symu::symg: NO CounterTop
Type II:
Standard is AIDS
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1208
It won a tourney three times as large, but... Children of Korlis... is this some tech I don't really understand? What's that in against? Inkwell stall?
Anti-storm tech, I believe.
EDIT: Thanks for the heads-up, SM. Fixed the link.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
On the ladder for the main StP, but we I have a few team members that are claiming this is the strongest build to date as for keeping a consistant amount of control throughout the game.
I myself caught the list of the MORPH so later I'll do some testing. I can share that I have dropped the stifle as a whole about 2 months ago and haven't even felt the pinch with regards to what they bring to the table. Now the Children of Korlis is almost a must with todays storm meta and serve as a total reverse tempo threat if an opp can't handle the little 1 drop;).
Will report later to you on more of my thoughts bud.
Oh Doom this is the Noble`Goyf thread so by all means you can post any content that has relative material, and to note your LINK IS BROKE BUD so you might want to edit that so others can have access to the deck you're sharing:).
S.M.
N/A
Modern
UrzaTron
Legacy
N/A
Vintage
Dark Times
EDH
Horobi, Death's Wail
Pauper
Affinity :symu::symr::symb::symg:
Special thanks to ChibiSwan for the avatar! (link)
I still don't know about this creature, but so far the shell for the archtype is pretty full. I don't see her being a choice in the future for the deck that holds Rods, Pridemages, Meddlings ect main.
I guess time will tell, but I can share my teammate has tested a bit and the results are hindering to date. I suppose if something is winning first place on a regular basis why mess it up.
I have to say this new version with Negate....and yes even the StP is probably the best build I have tested so far. In my team games I have to yank the STP's out 90% of the time...but I know it's best to be safe then to be sorry.
S.M.