I bet you'll all seen this deck, or for that matter at least heard of it. This is the archtype that GWS has perfected while winning top seats of many recent tourneys.
Here's the most recent version, and taking out 71 with a top 8 playoffs swiss style.
There's one thing certian about this archtype, it's not a flook, or just a random ROGue deck. This deck is the real deal, and you can be prepared all day for it, and still take second afterwards to its first!
So we've BuG, and Noble, all better then your standard Gay fish archtypes cleaning house and winning the big ones {Lotus}, so if your into Rods, dazes, stifles, and ofcourse the King of Kings this thread is for you!
Never heard of being called that {But each place is different}, but yes {I'm changing the name to that one now}. This deck uses the draw Mech with the Exalted Trigger to gain massive tempo with Selkie.
I'm in the proccess of building it, and I love BuG so this should be a great deck to pursue.
Thanks for the tag notice,
S.M.
Where I'm at we call it Cold Fish, or Bant Fish. Never heard of Selkie Strike before, though I get the point.
3 Goyfs and 3 rods looks like a sin to me. I'd probably cut the Hurkyl's Recall's for a 4th of each. I think I'd cut a daze for the last Stifle too, reflecting the way I tend to play fish decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
I've seen a version simular with those changes. Man this deck is just flat out a brusier!
I was a old fish player years ago, and have recently got back into the SEA with BuG. I don't know which one's better right now, but I can surely say that both are sick.
Even to the sideboard this archtype comes in fast, and finishes strong in the late.
Noble Hierarch opened the door to this all, and I was on the ladder for her as far as her card stock went......now I'm sold!........now if I can just find 4 in a shoe box somewhere......maybe a garage sell:o lol.........her price reflects her potential.
I have to agree with the others, should drop daze down to 2 for the extra goyf. I will post my version at a later date, but as for the sideboard.
I would make some changes. Ghostly Prison is nice, but I find Windborn Muse to be a better choice. With the mana this style of deck can make, its easy to drop one when you need it. Kataki, War's Wage had a home in my sideboard, but i dropped it for Magus of the Unseen to test it out. Personally I think Kataki isnt that good ATM, the 1 mana per artifact is a drop in the bucket to most decks that you want to bring Kataki in for and then they will just pay for their most important artifacts and let the others fade away. All the other things seem pretty standard.
Forgot the Walk, and I thought there was a Scroll.....but no scroll.
They've been added, and I apologize for the missing cards.
So any other list a member would like to provide?
Forgot the Walk, and I thought there was a Scroll.....but no scroll.
They've been added, and I apologize for the missing cards.
So any other list a member would like to provide?
I would imagine you're running the Selkie now, but the overall of your deck is very pleasing to veiw.
You were on this archtype a while ago, so tell me fellow member.....does it feel good to pawn your opp with this deck? Don't be shy you must :facepalm:, because it just seems so consistant!
I would imagine you're running the Selkie now, but the overall of your deck is very pleasing to veiw.
You were on this archtype a while ago, so tell me fellow member.....does it feel good to pawn your opp with this deck? Don't be shy you must :facepalm:, because it just seems so consistant!
My deck is still somewhat different from this. My draw engine of choice is Mystic Remora. I find that its much better. For U it works not only as a draw, but a tempo changer. Your opponent holds cards in their hand to prevent you from drawing while you keep dropping lands for the turn and building up your army. Not to mention I would much rather beat face with a 5/6 goyf and 2-3 Exalted dudes in play then a 3/3-4/4 Selkie.
As I see it, BUG and URG have a better disruption base, but Cold Fish/Bant Fish got the better beats with Exalted and massive card-drawing abilities with Selkie.
And this also have a slight better MU vs aggro because of it not potentially killing itself too much due to use of Bob, seize + fetchlands. Like URG this version may (perhaps) miss the hand-disruption package of UB/x decks.
More like 6/7's bud, and I hear your reasoning on Mystic Remora. I haven't seen a version pack those, so if you can provide a deck post that would bring something interesting to comment on.
My deck is still somewhat different from this. My draw engine of choice is Mystic Remora. I find that its much better. For U it works not only as a draw, but a tempo changer. Your opponent holds cards in their hand to prevent you from drawing while you keep dropping lands for the turn and building up your army. Not to mention I would much rather beat face with a 5/6 goyf and 2-3 Exalted dudes in play then a 3/3-4/4 Selkie.
What I find just remarkable is the Selkie! I mean really in most cases you're gaining 2 pure cards alone with him, and when you start thinking about all the maindeck utility this archtype supports...........cough stifle, then your opp is left choking to maintain any type of control.
Stifle is great. I was playing it in BuGfish, and once my opponent had bounced my Rod and assembled the vault-key, he thought he was good to win the game. Wasn't. Stifle Time Vault, take a precious turn to replay rod and wreck face. Gotta love Stifle... In fish decks it's wonderful utility & mana denial!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Swords to Plowshares should not even need a comment, but for some I can see their points on how many times this just a dead card taking up slots. I'm in a meta with bobs, welders, fish ect.......I'm running them.
Umezawa's Jitte this is just a test, but there has been several decks that have won mirrors with this slaughterhouse EQ. I can say so far the swords have been enough, but in some overkill way I feel comfort with them as of now.
Children of Korlis man what can I say about this card to shine some light after the STORM........hmm I can't think of anything;). You can also run Ethersworn Canonist, and I have my 3 just in case.
Kataki, War's Wage This guy is a stable from all the post I've seen, and for the most part a given vs Stax.
from there each version had at least 2 copies of T.Crypt and a min of 3x Wheel. The Relic is optional, and I really don't like it in most cases.
The Main deck;
I found that 1 sole copy of H.Recall was all I needed, and would recomment taking that in consideration before packing 2 of them.
Life from the Loam is a card that I really enjoy using in BuG and this is something I've carried over. I've won games with this card via SweetWaste, and I just can't see myself not running it right now.
Now if you have noticed I've cut the copies of;
3x Cold-Eye Selkie
3x Meddling Mage
and with that drop of 1 Hurkyl's Recall went with the choice to main;
3x Trygon Predator and folks I want to share this card is never, ever, a dead card. If you're just snacking on moxen it's worth it. Yesterday I ate about 1500 bucks worth......very tastey lol.
Now I just went MAX on each of these to ensure a boot is always at hand.
4x Daze
4x Stifle
4x Null Rod
Well I surely can answer Q's, but I think so far everyone has been on the same page with my posts in regards to BuG, and Noble as of yet.
I would think that Qasali Pridemage would be better than the Predator in this deck. Although it can only kill one artifact or enchantment, it doesn't have to attack to do so (keeping your draw engine going better), gives exhalted (really keeping your draw engine going better) and is cheaper to cast. Has Trygon worked better for you in practice?
Hasn't been bad at all.
4x Noble
= Exalted 1 at almost all times, I'm hoping she sits.
so the Selkie cut has had no effect to be honest.
The Predator just seems to be a real threat 3/4 attacker with an ability to wreck. To note if you're playing one of the big achtypes you must deal with this predator or lose to it, and if they're trying to handle him............what will it be like when the Goyf goes online?
Remember this concept was build by multi players, and current or past winning decks.
We do have another deck list, and it looks like this.
Doesn't run the Loam, the Hurkyl's, the 4th rod.....I hate it, but it's another point of veiw.
I know the Pridemages are great, but this is just something I'm trying......and the trygons don't get needled.
Just to play devil's advocate, I don't think that Tez or Storm need to deal with the Predator or lose, Storm will just hold their artifacts to build storm the turn they go off, and Tez won't play a Vault until they can untap it. At least the Pridemage can stop Key/Vault if he's on the table, whereas the Predator will never get another attack step to do his thing.
Predator is most definitely much better vs Stax though.
Then let the devil speak, lol.
If they are going to go off in a single turn, then yes the predator is not so good........but if you lay a single key without the vault then you get my pic.
Besides in that respects have you forgotten about the Rods?
Remember I'm using this situation as a whole, and for that matter storm can fight the rods, tezz better go off in a single turn, and stax....well can take the short end of the stick.
EDIT
The devil has to admit and bring a highlight to D00msday's post.
This was a matter I should have waited to post on, and I did so only because of my success with T.P.
So I've seen the light and clearly after todays plays "I can see why the Pridemage" is the creature of choice {doom you were dead on} as for taking care of pesky Enchantments/artifacts. His Exalted ability is just a bonus, so you stand correct bud! thanks for the post, because I had that feeling I shouldn't have posted without a little more research........this isn't BuG, and noble/goyf relays on a different scheme.
Just to play devil's advocate, I don't think that Tez or Storm need to deal with the Predator or lose, Storm will just hold their artifacts to build storm the turn they go off, and Tez won't play a Vault until they can untap it. At least the Pridemage can stop Key/Vault if he's on the table, whereas the Predator will never get another attack step to do his thing.
Predator is most definitely much better vs Stax though.
Hey I'm just trying to help out :). I do like the Predators a lot vs Stax though. Is it worth sideboarding any of them or are the Kataki's enough? Looks like the deck has a pretty good game vs Stax already with all of the permanents and anti-artifact stuff.
I played the 3 rod, pridemage, no hrecall version today versus a Tezz list similar to the one that won Gen Con vintage championship.
I felt helpless against a t1-t3 tinker into Inkwell or DSC as that is game over against the list I was using. It simply can not race that. So, I often named Tinker with my mmages. That said, I was helped out some as that is usually not the correct play because mass artifact bounce hate exists. It just so happens the deck doesn't use it and he still played around it.
The combo of pridemages and trygons was strong as one provides protection from dropping multiple pieces in a turn and the other prevents them from being played out earlier. The 3 cc of predator is a slight problem for the deck.
We played like 4 games preboard and 3 games post. I think I went 3-1, 2-1 without boarding in a card post board.
I like the blowouts that can happen with something like wasteland followed up with next turn stifle (for a fetch). A null rod within the next 2 or 3 turns is just icing. Believe it or not Tarm was actually the weaker of creatures. Often I'd run out a pridemage before tarm simply because a damage or two was irrelevant compared to protection vs infy turns.
I double handed 3 games of this deck versus my oath deck and oath straight lucksacked 3 wins in a row. The fish deck went first all 3 games. The first 2 games oath opened with ancestral recall in hand and landed t1 and t2 oath off of it.
This was the opening hand for the fish deck g3. It looks like it should win.
Noble H
Trop Island
Bstorm
Mmage
TPredator
Tpredator
Mystical tutor
That means t1 noble with t2 mana for mmage on oath and being able to mystical a time walk or arecall. Predators would follow in short order eating any oaths that were dropped without oath also having a time walk even if it could deal with the mage.
Oath opens with:
flooded strand
black lotus
oath
lat nams legacy
hellkite
negate
vamp tutor and draws into mana leak
I would fly all over the country for t1 tournaments if I knew I could play t1, t2, t1 oaths with recalls.
Fish usually have a bad MU vs Oath decks though, but where is your Force of Will, Daze, Stifle and Waste/Strip?
If I were facing Oath and opened a hand like that and knowing that I'm on the play. I would probably have used a mulligan. If I were on the draw, I would consider a keep. But since the hand only have 1 land. I would probably mulligan anyway.
Here's the most recent version, and taking out 71 with a top 8 playoffs swiss style.
There's one thing certian about this archtype, it's not a flook, or just a random ROGue deck. This deck is the real deal, and you can be prepared all day for it, and still take second afterwards to its first!
So we've BuG, and Noble, all better then your standard Gay fish archtypes cleaning house and winning the big ones {Lotus}, so if your into Rods, dazes, stifles, and ofcourse the King of Kings this thread is for you!
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
3x Null Rod
4x Meddling Mage
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Cold-Eyed Selkie
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Tarmogoyf
1x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
1x Mystical Tutor
3x Daze
2x Hurkyl's Recall
3x Stifle
1x Time Walk
4x Flooded Strand
1x Island
2x Polluted Delta
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
3x Tropical Island
3x Tundra
2x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
4x Trygon Predator
3x Wheel of Sun and Moon
Also, you may want to fix the tags on Kataki, War's Wage and Wheel of Sun and Moon.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
I'm in the proccess of building it, and I love BuG so this should be a great deck to pursue.
Thanks for the tag notice,
S.M.
3 Goyfs and 3 rods looks like a sin to me. I'd probably cut the Hurkyl's Recall's for a 4th of each. I think I'd cut a daze for the last Stifle too, reflecting the way I tend to play fish decks.
I was a old fish player years ago, and have recently got back into the SEA with BuG. I don't know which one's better right now, but I can surely say that both are sick.
Even to the sideboard this archtype comes in fast, and finishes strong in the late.
Noble Hierarch opened the door to this all, and I was on the ladder for her as far as her card stock went......now I'm sold!........now if I can just find 4 in a shoe box somewhere......maybe a garage sell:o lol.........her price reflects her potential.
Also heres the thread from TMD about the UWg architype http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37264.0
I have to agree with the others, should drop daze down to 2 for the extra goyf. I will post my version at a later date, but as for the sideboard.
I would make some changes. Ghostly Prison is nice, but I find Windborn Muse to be a better choice. With the mana this style of deck can make, its easy to drop one when you need it. Kataki, War's Wage had a home in my sideboard, but i dropped it for Magus of the Unseen to test it out. Personally I think Kataki isnt that good ATM, the 1 mana per artifact is a drop in the bucket to most decks that you want to bring Kataki in for and then they will just pay for their most important artifacts and let the others fade away. All the other things seem pretty standard.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
They've been added, and I apologize for the missing cards.
So any other list a member would like to provide?
I have some older deck lists I can share.
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36926.0
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
You were on this archtype a while ago, so tell me fellow member.....does it feel good to pawn your opp with this deck? Don't be shy you must :facepalm:, because it just seems so consistant!
My deck is still somewhat different from this. My draw engine of choice is Mystic Remora. I find that its much better. For U it works not only as a draw, but a tempo changer. Your opponent holds cards in their hand to prevent you from drawing while you keep dropping lands for the turn and building up your army. Not to mention I would much rather beat face with a 5/6 goyf and 2-3 Exalted dudes in play then a 3/3-4/4 Selkie.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
And this also have a slight better MU vs aggro because of it not potentially killing itself too much due to use of Bob, seize + fetchlands. Like URG this version may (perhaps) miss the hand-disruption package of UB/x decks.
lol, and if their was a planeswalker in the grave he might be a 7/8, although out of all the games Ive played goyf has never got to a 7/8.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
I actually got a Goyf to be a 8/9 once against some odd deck when I made him discard his Bitterblossom and destroyed his Tezzeret
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
4x Null Rod
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Tarmogoyf
3x Cold-Eye Selkie
3x Meddling Mage
3x Trygon Predator
4x Daze
4x Stifle
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Life from the Loam
1x Island
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
3x Tropical Island
3x Tundra
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Moon of Sun and Moon
I need to address my SB first;
Swords to Plowshares should not even need a comment, but for some I can see their points on how many times this just a dead card taking up slots. I'm in a meta with bobs, welders, fish ect.......I'm running them.
Umezawa's Jitte this is just a test, but there has been several decks that have won mirrors with this slaughterhouse EQ. I can say so far the swords have been enough, but in some overkill way I feel comfort with them as of now.
Children of Korlis man what can I say about this card to shine some light after the STORM........hmm I can't think of anything;). You can also run Ethersworn Canonist, and I have my 3 just in case.
Kataki, War's Wage This guy is a stable from all the post I've seen, and for the most part a given vs Stax.
from there each version had at least 2 copies of T.Crypt and a min of 3x Wheel. The Relic is optional, and I really don't like it in most cases.
The Main deck;
I found that 1 sole copy of H.Recall was all I needed, and would recomment taking that in consideration before packing 2 of them.
Life from the Loam is a card that I really enjoy using in BuG and this is something I've carried over. I've won games with this card via SweetWaste, and I just can't see myself not running it right now.
Now if you have noticed I've cut the copies of;
3x Cold-Eye Selkie
3x Meddling Mage
and with that drop of 1 Hurkyl's Recall went with the choice to main;
3x Trygon Predator and folks I want to share this card is never, ever, a dead card. If you're just snacking on moxen it's worth it. Yesterday I ate about 1500 bucks worth......very tastey lol.
Now I just went MAX on each of these to ensure a boot is always at hand.
4x Daze
4x Stifle
4x Null Rod
Well I surely can answer Q's, but I think so far everyone has been on the same page with my posts in regards to BuG, and Noble as of yet.
S.M.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
4x Noble
= Exalted 1 at almost all times, I'm hoping she sits.
so the Selkie cut has had no effect to be honest.
The Predator just seems to be a real threat 3/4 attacker with an ability to wreck. To note if you're playing one of the big achtypes you must deal with this predator or lose to it, and if they're trying to handle him............what will it be like when the Goyf goes online?
Remember this concept was build by multi players, and current or past winning decks.
We do have another deck list, and it looks like this.
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
3x Null Rod
3x Meddling Mage
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Cold-Eyed Selkie
3x Trygon Predator
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Tarmogoyf
1x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
1x Mystical Tutor
4x Daze
4x Stifle
1x Time Walk
3x Flooded Strand
1x Island
3x Polluted Delta
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
3x Tropical Island
3x Tundra
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Moon of Sun and Moon
Doesn't run the Loam, the Hurkyl's, the 4th rod.....I hate it, but it's another point of veiw.
I know the Pridemages are great, but this is just something I'm trying......and the trygons don't get needled.
Predator is most definitely much better vs Stax though.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
If they are going to go off in a single turn, then yes the predator is not so good........but if you lay a single key without the vault then you get my pic.
Besides in that respects have you forgotten about the Rods?
Remember I'm using this situation as a whole, and for that matter storm can fight the rods, tezz better go off in a single turn, and stax....well can take the short end of the stick.
EDIT
The devil has to admit and bring a highlight to D00msday's post.
This was a matter I should have waited to post on, and I did so only because of my success with T.P.
So I've seen the light and clearly after todays plays "I can see why the Pridemage" is the creature of choice {doom you were dead on} as for taking care of pesky Enchantments/artifacts. His Exalted ability is just a bonus, so you stand correct bud! thanks for the post, because I had that feeling I shouldn't have posted without a little more research........this isn't BuG, and noble/goyf relays on a different scheme.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
I felt helpless against a t1-t3 tinker into Inkwell or DSC as that is game over against the list I was using. It simply can not race that. So, I often named Tinker with my mmages. That said, I was helped out some as that is usually not the correct play because mass artifact bounce hate exists. It just so happens the deck doesn't use it and he still played around it.
The combo of pridemages and trygons was strong as one provides protection from dropping multiple pieces in a turn and the other prevents them from being played out earlier. The 3 cc of predator is a slight problem for the deck.
We played like 4 games preboard and 3 games post. I think I went 3-1, 2-1 without boarding in a card post board.
I like the blowouts that can happen with something like wasteland followed up with next turn stifle (for a fetch). A null rod within the next 2 or 3 turns is just icing. Believe it or not Tarm was actually the weaker of creatures. Often I'd run out a pridemage before tarm simply because a damage or two was irrelevant compared to protection vs infy turns.
AVOID MTG Fanatic ! Remands Orders and Re-lists cards for more money!
This was the opening hand for the fish deck g3. It looks like it should win.
Noble H
Trop Island
Bstorm
Mmage
TPredator
Tpredator
Mystical tutor
That means t1 noble with t2 mana for mmage on oath and being able to mystical a time walk or arecall. Predators would follow in short order eating any oaths that were dropped without oath also having a time walk even if it could deal with the mage.
Oath opens with:
flooded strand
black lotus
oath
lat nams legacy
hellkite
negate
vamp tutor and draws into mana leak
I would fly all over the country for t1 tournaments if I knew I could play t1, t2, t1 oaths with recalls.
AVOID MTG Fanatic ! Remands Orders and Re-lists cards for more money!
If I were facing Oath and opened a hand like that and knowing that I'm on the play. I would probably have used a mulligan. If I were on the draw, I would consider a keep. But since the hand only have 1 land. I would probably mulligan anyway.