I finally got ahold of the expensive components for building U/B fish - the Underground Sea's & Chains of Mephistopheles, allusive little bastards I tell you!
Anyhow, I want to build this deck because, well, it's my last hope and last try at fish. Fish is just a decent deck. It's not a tournament winning deck, in most cases. I've run strict decklists of Fish and variants of it, U/W and U/R - usually winning half of my games, keeping me out of the Top 8 and away from the prizes.
With that said, I want to use the following cards in my decklist, but I'm seeking some advice and alternate builds from you guys.
Let me know what you come up with and what you think of my list.
Creature Base:
4x Cloud of Faeries - I know this is a highly debated card because it doesn't always offer much, but I truly feel like it belongs. The tempo it creates is very nice and as a late game draw it offers you a chance to cycle for a different top deck, and finally - it flies.
4x Dark Confidant - He's become such a house in Type 1, his aggro power ( 2 ) and card ( advantadge ) draw won't trigger Chains of Meph. This makes him something I think is a necessity in the deck.
4x Mesmeric Fiend - He's only a 1/1, so his beats ( like the faeries ) are weak - but he does take away anything of my choice creating disruption and card advantadge. I also like the fact that he can pick up where Duress leaves off, or even do more.
3x Stifle - Stifle is such a great card in my opinion. You can disrupt some small stuff and heavy stuff - from fetchlands to a tendrils - this card can be an absolute house and is a must in my opinion. 3 mainboard, too much? I wish I could run 4, but you tell me.
4x Daze - Daze is also a great card in my opinion, sometimes useless late game - but very strong early game - which is usually is the only 'game' you get in Vintage. Some will debate this as well, I believe. Opinions?
4x Duress - I think this card also speaks for itself, disruption at it's finest.
1x Chain of Vapor - I've decided ( as you'll see ) to run 1, 2 and 3 casting cost bounce because of the Chalice threat. The card itself is an obvious choice.
1x Echoing Truth - This pertains to the above explanation.
xX Annul - This is a tough card, it can be very useful considering nearly every deck in the current Meta runs a strong enchantment or artifact base. Sometimes it only counters a mox/lotus though which makes it, well, less than good. Thoughts?
3x Chains of Mephistopheles - First of all, should I run 4 or should 3 be enough? This is a very interesting card, something I never thought I'd run but - wow - it's power can easily be recognized. I really think this is an awesome card and because it's so cheap to play - why not?
Acceleration/Other
1x Time Walk - I don't know if I can run Ancestrall Recall because of Chains, so I definetly want to run this.
1x Ancestrall Recall - Can I run this with Chains being a focus of the deck?
xX Standstill - Is there room for this card? Obviously if I run it, I have to run a few Ninja of the Deep Hours or at the very least, a full set of Mishra's Factories.
xX Brainstorm - I usually don't like to run this in Fish, sometimes I just end up stuck with what's coming and it's frustrating. Usually ends up FoW fodder if not. Sometimes it does come in handy though, not sure. Thoughts?
xX Forget - I really wanted to run this with Chains of Meph - it's just such a great combo ya know? They lose 4 cards and draw 2, I can see how that can help them, but I can see how it can be devastating to them too, early game especially. Is this card not good enough to run main, or even sideboard?
Land:
xX Wasteland - Land disruption is a part of fish, I'm guessing these are a must ( 4 ), agreed?
xX Diabolic Edict - I figure this is my Oath sideboard necessity, not much to explain, eh?
xX Shadow of Doubt - I was thinking about this sideboard - but I'm not sure if it's that necessary, it does cantrip so maybe it is a worthy sideboard or even run a few main? I'm not sure, what do you think?
xX Planar Void / Tormod's Crypt - Tough call because Chalice for 0 is very common, not that chalice for 1 is hard - but vs. Fish they will want to Chalice for 2 more than 1, so I'm not sure, which one folks?
xX Stifle - I figure I'll want to run a full 4 vs. Combo ( Dragon/TPS ) so the rest will be in the board, no doubt.
xX Other suggestions?
I greatly appreciate any and all feedback, thanks alot guys.
Keep in mind, my Meta plays the following:
Control Slaver
TPS / TT-Confidant
Stax
Oath
There is little to no FCG / Fish / Dragon at all, honestly.
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
Well, one card should be a maindeck 4 of, and that is Rootwater Thief. Control Slaver looses slaver, tps can't win, stax looses its usually only win condition outside of welder beats, and oath looses its angels.
Now what card could be really good against all of those artifact and quick artifact mana reliant decks... hmm... something that perhaps counters artifact abilities? But what would possibly do that?...
Also, Artifact Flux is great against stax, your worst matchup of the bunch by far. Get three mana and win.
You want to have about 20-22 mana sources, and 5 strips are necessary. About 4 basics should be good, as well. Fill in from there.
You need more creatures. 12 just isn't enough.
Forget sux. Don't consider it.
I'll be back with more input, these are just some preliminary comments.
Null Rod is a definite, sorry I forgot to add that to my list, Updated now.
Rootwater Thief huh? Interesting. I have them so I can give them a shot - Mesmeric Fiend can take it from their hand and the Thief can take it from their deck. This will fill the creature gap that I AGREE is in need of filling.
Energy Flux is good, but it doesn't win the game against stax in many cases, I've run it in most of my boards with Fish and sometimes its great, sometimes it's just, whatever to them.
Poor Forget, I tried little buddy!
I truly appreciate your feedback, keep it up and I'll let you know what I come up with today when I build a preliminary version at my local shop.
Thanks bro.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
I love what it can do, but I've noticed that without running Forget it's not as good, at all. Which makes me rethink my entire decklist, or makes me rethink Chains altogether, AGH!
Tough choices.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
I think Planar Void / Tormod's Crypt are the best anti-graveyard pieces in the game, no need for the rats.
As for Infernal Tutor, meh, maybe, maybe not. I don't even like to run Demonic Tutor or Vampiric Tutor in Fish to be honest. We'll see.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
Mr. Ninja Rat is most definitly worse than Wretch, even if double black is hard, the 1 per card is so much more effecient.
Perhaps you should maindeck chain of vapor for fun fiend trix.
Keep in mind that planar void doesn't work against good players, and crypt doesnt work with rod. Try wretch, or Nezumi Graverobber. Void can work, but it doesn't really stop welder.
You should definitly run recall. Even if you have a chains or two out, you can target your opponant and use it as a discard card (fun after they tutor).
Very good call, never even thought that Ancestrall could be so offensive but with Chains out - it definetly is.
Ya, wretch is far better, I can board him for sure.
Bounce and recast with fiend? They would get back the original card taken though... what are you suggesting?
Thanks for the feedback!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
Mr. Ninja Rat is most definitly worse than Wretch, even if double black is hard, the 1 per card is so much more effecient.
Perhaps you should maindeck chain of vapor for fun fiend trix.
Keep in mind that planar void doesn't work against good players, and crypt doesnt work with rod. Try wretch, or Nezumi Graverobber. Void can work, but it doesn't really stop welder.
You should definitly run recall. Even if you have a chains or two out, you can target your opponant and use it as a discard card (fun after they tutor).
Actually I was thinking of skullsnatcher which is much better than wretch in resource management, and comes out easier. Wtretch's ability is better, mind you, but I was thinking about the overall tempo of the deck, and the fact that chains will screw them up royally.
In that sense, I don't see what the problem with standstill being in the deck would be. If anything you can pop it and act as another recall in response to attacking with shortfang and really screw them up, or gain good card advantage without chains out (since you only have 2 anyway).
*edit* I've been working on a version of this deck that differs slightly from yours, if you want to see it.
I fear using ANOTHER 1 toughness creature because Darkblast is so utterly ownage against me :(. That's why Wretch is better, because I can remove it right away and not give them the chance to reclaim it after they Time Walk, or this, or that. I suppose they can still brainstorm or recall it back though.
I just don't think SkullSnatcher is good enough, but I could obviously be wrong.
Post up your list for sure bro.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
Well, relooking at it, it's a MAYBE, haha. I sorta like him since his ninjitsu is only 1... interesting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
Cast fiend, in rsp to cip, cast chains on fiend, sac a land, cast a copy on an opponants bad card, rfg a card in their hand permanently, recast fiend, get rid of the bounced card.
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
I'd be more inclined to run Stifle main board over Annul, just for my Meta at least.
Voidmage Prodigy huh? Interesting indeed, uncounterable-counter - I can see the asset, not sure if I'd go for it though. I like rootwater thief but he is a bit slow so maybe trying the prodigy isn't so bad, hmm...
I don't agree with 4x Ninja's, you have no creatures you really wanna bounce do you? Mesmeric's are holding a card away from them... Bob is your draw engine and voidmage needs to be out to counter, I guess with Aether Vial it's okay but... hmm.
It also seems that since your only running 3x Factory you don't have enough creatures, or does it do fine with what it has?
Thanks for the post, lets discuss more!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
I'd be more inclined to run Stifle main board over Annul, just for my Meta at least.
Voidmage Prodigy huh? Interesting indeed, uncounterable-counter - I can see the asset, not sure if I'd go for it though. I like rootwater thief but he is a bit slow so maybe trying the prodigy isn't so bad, hmm...
I like to be able to win a counter war when its necessary. Countering tinker or will is absolutely necessary for me to be able to pull off, and daze+force are not going to be enough to win it when someone is pulling multiple counters out of their deck just to defeat your wall. Thus, voidmage. The entire deck is a meta call, and this is mine.
I don't agree with 4x Ninja's, you have no creatures you really wanna bounce do you? Mesmeric's are holding a card away from them... Bob is your draw engine and voidmage needs to be out to counter, I guess with Aether Vial it's okay but... hmm.
I hardcast ninjas plenty. But bob is usually my bounced creature of choice, though I have been known to bounce a factory or two. I am trying skullsnatchers instead but haven't actually tested anything yet. Ninjas are card draw, plain and simple. Easy to get out, easy to let go. People will be wasting removal on fiends, which is exactly what I want them to do.
Also, voidmage does NOT need to be out to counter. You can vial it in and use its ability all in response.
It also seems that since your only running 3x Factory you don't have enough creatures, or does it do fine with what it has?
Thanks for the post, lets discuss more!
There are four factories?
Quote from Sempai »
maybe a blast of your own in place of a stifle would be decent(just to skrew welders and the like)
There is a stifle main for a reason, most of which is buying one turn while racing oath, or making sure tanglewire is a dead card. With the counter wall in effect, fueling welder's ability is hard....If I even let one resolve. If I were to take stifle out, I would probably put in pithing needle before something even more conditional like dark/blue blast.
Interesting, I just don't know about 4x Ninja, especially if you draw 2 ninja's in your opening hand and have nothing to bounce, and honestly, hard casting a ninja for fish isn't exactly easy...
Thanks for your feedback!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
Since the metagame is shifting, I'm not sure Fish is all that great. Sure, you can metagame it to win, but it has a tough time with Tendrils.
UbaStax is still running around a little and everyone and their mom is now running IT.
UW Fish is good. And UBW Fish is good as well. Kataki helps with the Stax match. Confidant also happens to be most excellent against Stax. Extract is far better than Thief will ever hope to be. Thief isn't active until turn 4. So, that's way too late against IT or GrimLong.
And UW/UWB Fish even have game against Slaver... when I say game, I mean Slaver just rolls to it.
You cast Fiend, fiend resolves. Then, fiend's ability goes on the stack. In response, you cast chain of vapor on your fiend. Copy chain targeting whatever you want (like opposing colossi and such). Copy resolves, returning your opponants junk. The original chain resolves, fiend is returned to your hand. Fiend's leaves play ability goes on the stack. This ability resolves, but has no effect. The comes into play effect resolves, and you can remove a card from your opponants hand, which includes the bounced spell. The card is then removed permanently, as the leaves play ability has already resolved (similar to the stp a gorger trick, but good). You can then recast fiend if you want. Its quite techy and can be really cool.
You cast Fiend, fiend resolves. Then, fiend's ability goes on the stack. In response, you cast chain of vapor on your fiend. Copy chain targeting whatever you want (like opposing colossi and such). Copy resolves, returning your opponants junk. The original chain resolves, fiend is returned to your hand. Fiend's leaves play ability goes on the stack. This ability resolves, but has no effect. The comes into play effect resolves, and you can remove a card from your opponants hand, which includes the bounced spell. The card is then removed permanently, as the leaves play ability has already resolved (similar to the stp a gorger trick, but good). You can then recast fiend if you want. Its quite techy and can be really cool.
While it's cool, it's 1UB AND a land. That's not exactly something I want to do against a deck that Fish can already beat. Nor is it good against combo, because of it's steep price. Furthermore, I don't see Fiend being all the great against Stax or Combo. There are better cards than Fiend, like Kataki, Stormscape Apprentice, or even Spiketail Hatchling.
Ya, I heard about this from someone locally too, not that amazing to actually do...
As for your run down of the meta, your pretty much right.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This member has been found guilty of ripping a number of users on MTGSalvation. As a result he has been banned on this site and all his positive feedback has been removed. The MTGSalvation Staff wants to strongly encourage you NOT to trade with this member ever again in whatever situation might come up.
Spread the word.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I finally got ahold of the expensive components for building U/B fish - the Underground Sea's & Chains of Mephistopheles, allusive little bastards I tell you!
Anyhow, I want to build this deck because, well, it's my last hope and last try at fish. Fish is just a decent deck. It's not a tournament winning deck, in most cases. I've run strict decklists of Fish and variants of it, U/W and U/R - usually winning half of my games, keeping me out of the Top 8 and away from the prizes.
With that said, I want to use the following cards in my decklist, but I'm seeking some advice and alternate builds from you guys.
Let me know what you come up with and what you think of my list.
Creature Base:
4x Cloud of Faeries - I know this is a highly debated card because it doesn't always offer much, but I truly feel like it belongs. The tempo it creates is very nice and as a late game draw it offers you a chance to cycle for a different top deck, and finally - it flies.
4x Dark Confidant - He's become such a house in Type 1, his aggro power ( 2 ) and card ( advantadge ) draw won't trigger Chains of Meph. This makes him something I think is a necessity in the deck.
4x Mesmeric Fiend - He's only a 1/1, so his beats ( like the faeries ) are weak - but he does take away anything of my choice creating disruption and card advantadge. I also like the fact that he can pick up where Duress leaves off, or even do more.
Disruption Base:
3x/4x Null Rod - Easy choice.
4x Force of Will - This card speaks for itself.
3x Stifle - Stifle is such a great card in my opinion. You can disrupt some small stuff and heavy stuff - from fetchlands to a tendrils - this card can be an absolute house and is a must in my opinion. 3 mainboard, too much? I wish I could run 4, but you tell me.
4x Daze - Daze is also a great card in my opinion, sometimes useless late game - but very strong early game - which is usually is the only 'game' you get in Vintage. Some will debate this as well, I believe. Opinions?
4x Duress - I think this card also speaks for itself, disruption at it's finest.
1x Chain of Vapor - I've decided ( as you'll see ) to run 1, 2 and 3 casting cost bounce because of the Chalice threat. The card itself is an obvious choice.
1x Echoing Truth - This pertains to the above explanation.
1x Rebuild - Again, read above.
xX Annul - This is a tough card, it can be very useful considering nearly every deck in the current Meta runs a strong enchantment or artifact base. Sometimes it only counters a mox/lotus though which makes it, well, less than good. Thoughts?
3x Chains of Mephistopheles - First of all, should I run 4 or should 3 be enough? This is a very interesting card, something I never thought I'd run but - wow - it's power can easily be recognized. I really think this is an awesome card and because it's so cheap to play - why not?
Acceleration/Other
1x Time Walk - I don't know if I can run Ancestrall Recall because of Chains, so I definetly want to run this.
1x Ancestrall Recall - Can I run this with Chains being a focus of the deck?
1x Vampiric Tutor - Is it necessary in Fish?
1x Demonic Tutor - Again, is it?
1x Mox Jet - Duh.
1x Mox Saphire - Duh.
xX Standstill - Is there room for this card? Obviously if I run it, I have to run a few Ninja of the Deep Hours or at the very least, a full set of Mishra's Factories.
xX Brainstorm - I usually don't like to run this in Fish, sometimes I just end up stuck with what's coming and it's frustrating. Usually ends up FoW fodder if not. Sometimes it does come in handy though, not sure. Thoughts?
xX Forget - I really wanted to run this with Chains of Meph - it's just such a great combo ya know? They lose 4 cards and draw 2, I can see how that can help them, but I can see how it can be devastating to them too, early game especially. Is this card not good enough to run main, or even sideboard?
Land:
xX Wasteland - Land disruption is a part of fish, I'm guessing these are a must ( 4 ), agreed?
1x Strip Mine - Easy choice I think
xX Mishras Factory - This will give me more creatures then the 16 I'm thinking of running now and are usually always great in Fish, right?
4x Polluted Delta - Not much to say.
4x Underground Sea - Not much to say.
xX Islands / Swamps - Uh, ya.
Sideboard
xX Diabolic Edict - I figure this is my Oath sideboard necessity, not much to explain, eh?
xX Shadow of Doubt - I was thinking about this sideboard - but I'm not sure if it's that necessary, it does cantrip so maybe it is a worthy sideboard or even run a few main? I'm not sure, what do you think?
xX Planar Void / Tormod's Crypt - Tough call because Chalice for 0 is very common, not that chalice for 1 is hard - but vs. Fish they will want to Chalice for 2 more than 1, so I'm not sure, which one folks?
xX Stifle - I figure I'll want to run a full 4 vs. Combo ( Dragon/TPS ) so the rest will be in the board, no doubt.
xX Other suggestions?
I greatly appreciate any and all feedback, thanks alot guys.
Keep in mind, my Meta plays the following:
Control Slaver
TPS / TT-Confidant
Stax
Oath
There is little to no FCG / Fish / Dragon at all, honestly.
Thanks again!
Spread the word.
Now what card could be really good against all of those artifact and quick artifact mana reliant decks... hmm... something that perhaps counters artifact abilities? But what would possibly do that?...
Also, Artifact Flux is great against stax, your worst matchup of the bunch by far. Get three mana and win.
You want to have about 20-22 mana sources, and 5 strips are necessary. About 4 basics should be good, as well. Fill in from there.
You need more creatures. 12 just isn't enough.
Forget sux. Don't consider it.
I'll be back with more input, these are just some preliminary comments.
Rootwater Thief huh? Interesting. I have them so I can give them a shot - Mesmeric Fiend can take it from their hand and the Thief can take it from their deck. This will fill the creature gap that I AGREE is in need of filling.
Energy Flux is good, but it doesn't win the game against stax in many cases, I've run it in most of my boards with Fish and sometimes its great, sometimes it's just, whatever to them.
Poor Forget, I tried little buddy!
I truly appreciate your feedback, keep it up and I'll let you know what I come up with today when I build a preliminary version at my local shop.
Thanks bro.
Spread the word.
3x Stifle
4x Force of Will
4x Duress
2x Null Rod
2x Standstill
2x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Time Walk
4x Cloud of Faeries
4x Rootwater Thief
4x Dark Confidant
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Saphire
4x Wasteland
4x Mishras Factory
1x Stripmine
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
2x Island
2x Swamp
The sideboard I have so far is...
2x Null Rod
4x Planar Void / Tormod's Crypt
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Rebuild
1x Echoing Truth
1x Stifle
1x Darkblast
Spread the word.
4x Chains
or
4x Standstill
Both isn't really viable because they counter-act one another ya know?
I got the chains because, especially in my Vintage Meta, card draw is outta control. To give you an idea:
Bazaar of Bagdad ( Stax )
Accumulated Knowledge ( Oath )
Ancestrall Recall ( Everything )
I love what it can do, but I've noticed that without running Forget it's not as good, at all. Which makes me rethink my entire decklist, or makes me rethink Chains altogether, AGH!
Tough choices.
Spread the word.
Also, the ninja rat that eats graves would probably work well. In the side at least.
As for Infernal Tutor, meh, maybe, maybe not. I don't even like to run Demonic Tutor or Vampiric Tutor in Fish to be honest. We'll see.
Spread the word.
Perhaps you should maindeck chain of vapor for fun fiend trix.
Keep in mind that planar void doesn't work against good players, and crypt doesnt work with rod. Try wretch, or Nezumi Graverobber. Void can work, but it doesn't really stop welder.
You should definitly run recall. Even if you have a chains or two out, you can target your opponant and use it as a discard card (fun after they tutor).
Ya, wretch is far better, I can board him for sure.
Bounce and recast with fiend? They would get back the original card taken though... what are you suggesting?
Thanks for the feedback!
Spread the word.
Actually I was thinking of skullsnatcher which is much better than wretch in resource management, and comes out easier. Wtretch's ability is better, mind you, but I was thinking about the overall tempo of the deck, and the fact that chains will screw them up royally.
In that sense, I don't see what the problem with standstill being in the deck would be. If anything you can pop it and act as another recall in response to attacking with shortfang and really screw them up, or gain good card advantage without chains out (since you only have 2 anyway).
*edit* I've been working on a version of this deck that differs slightly from yours, if you want to see it.
I fear using ANOTHER 1 toughness creature because Darkblast is so utterly ownage against me :(. That's why Wretch is better, because I can remove it right away and not give them the chance to reclaim it after they Time Walk, or this, or that. I suppose they can still brainstorm or recall it back though.
I just don't think SkullSnatcher is good enough, but I could obviously be wrong.
Post up your list for sure bro.
Spread the word.
Spread the word.
Cast fiend, in rsp to cip, cast chains on fiend, sac a land, cast a copy on an opponants bad card, rfg a card in their hand permanently, recast fiend, get rid of the bounced card.
Spread the word.
// Lands
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
4 [R] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [AQ] Strip Mine (2)
1 [8E] Swamp (4)
1 [PT] Island (2)
// Creatures
4 [TO] Mesmeric Fiend
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [ON] Voidmage Prodigy
4 [BOK] Ninja of the Deep Hours
// Spells
1 [SC] Stifle
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [U] Black Lotus
1 [U] Mox Sapphire
1 [U] Mox Jet
1 [U] Ancestral Recall
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [NE] Daze
3 [US] Duress
1 [PS] Rushing River
3 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [US] Annul
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SC] Stifle
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 2 [US] Annul
SB: 2 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 3 [AN] Old Man of the Sea
SB: 4 [4E] Energy Flux
I'm going to ditch vials for thiefs or skulls eventually. This list is for my oath/stax meta.
I'd be more inclined to run Stifle main board over Annul, just for my Meta at least.
Voidmage Prodigy huh? Interesting indeed, uncounterable-counter - I can see the asset, not sure if I'd go for it though. I like rootwater thief but he is a bit slow so maybe trying the prodigy isn't so bad, hmm...
I don't agree with 4x Ninja's, you have no creatures you really wanna bounce do you? Mesmeric's are holding a card away from them... Bob is your draw engine and voidmage needs to be out to counter, I guess with Aether Vial it's okay but... hmm.
It also seems that since your only running 3x Factory you don't have enough creatures, or does it do fine with what it has?
Thanks for the post, lets discuss more!
Spread the word.
I like to be able to win a counter war when its necessary. Countering tinker or will is absolutely necessary for me to be able to pull off, and daze+force are not going to be enough to win it when someone is pulling multiple counters out of their deck just to defeat your wall. Thus, voidmage. The entire deck is a meta call, and this is mine.
I hardcast ninjas plenty. But bob is usually my bounced creature of choice, though I have been known to bounce a factory or two. I am trying skullsnatchers instead but haven't actually tested anything yet. Ninjas are card draw, plain and simple. Easy to get out, easy to let go. People will be wasting removal on fiends, which is exactly what I want them to do.
Also, voidmage does NOT need to be out to counter. You can vial it in and use its ability all in response.
There are four factories?
There is a stifle main for a reason, most of which is buying one turn while racing oath, or making sure tanglewire is a dead card. With the counter wall in effect, fueling welder's ability is hard....If I even let one resolve. If I were to take stifle out, I would probably put in pithing needle before something even more conditional like dark/blue blast.
Thanks for your feedback!
Spread the word.
UbaStax is still running around a little and everyone and their mom is now running IT.
UW Fish is good. And UBW Fish is good as well. Kataki helps with the Stax match. Confidant also happens to be most excellent against Stax. Extract is far better than Thief will ever hope to be. Thief isn't active until turn 4. So, that's way too late against IT or GrimLong.
And UW/UWB Fish even have game against Slaver... when I say game, I mean Slaver just rolls to it.
You cast Fiend, fiend resolves. Then, fiend's ability goes on the stack. In response, you cast chain of vapor on your fiend. Copy chain targeting whatever you want (like opposing colossi and such). Copy resolves, returning your opponants junk. The original chain resolves, fiend is returned to your hand. Fiend's leaves play ability goes on the stack. This ability resolves, but has no effect. The comes into play effect resolves, and you can remove a card from your opponants hand, which includes the bounced spell. The card is then removed permanently, as the leaves play ability has already resolved (similar to the stp a gorger trick, but good). You can then recast fiend if you want. Its quite techy and can be really cool.
While it's cool, it's 1UB AND a land. That's not exactly something I want to do against a deck that Fish can already beat. Nor is it good against combo, because of it's steep price. Furthermore, I don't see Fiend being all the great against Stax or Combo. There are better cards than Fiend, like Kataki, Stormscape Apprentice, or even Spiketail Hatchling.
As for your run down of the meta, your pretty much right.
Spread the word.