How is this build faster? My manaless build wins the majority of games on turn 2 Are you saying this wins a lot of games turn 1? I thought the whole point of adding mana was to make it more reliable (aka slower but harder to disrupt) not faster.
This wins a lot more of the games turn 1. The function of adding mana makes it both reliable, but also faster, although this is highly dependent on playskill. From testing, traditional ichorid tends to have about a 2.6 turn win whereas manaed ichorid has about a 2.1 turn win, iir, about a .5 turn difference on average. This is due to a variety of reasons. One is that you have a much higher reliability of having multiple enablers, which tends to lead to a much faster win. For instance, going bazaar, breakthrough tends to win the game on the spot as long as you bazaar away a dredger. Alternatively, you have a higher percentage of obtaining an acceptable hand with less mulligans due to increased enablers, which leads to subsequent less obvious factors which influence speed, such as dodging hate and having a higher quantity of disruption per acceptable hand. In addition, it is more difficult to mull into oblivion.
Now, this isn't an extremely comparable statistical analysis, but results would indicate that this is true, as manaed ichorids have, in the last few months, been putting up a higher quantity of results in tournament settings, albeit a relatively low sample size, but thats what we have to work with in this format.
That being said, I would advise slight revisions of the above decklist. Replacing sea with colossium is almost obvious, as colossium is significantly better than even bazaar once threshold is reached (meaning, after a dredge typically from some other source). LED also seems underwhelming, so I would advise its replacement.
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Main Deck
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichroid
4 Golgari Grave-troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
4 Dryad Arbor
2 Cephalid Sage
2 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Bazzar of Baghdad
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Bridge from Below
4 Serum Powder
4 Chalice of the Void
Side Board
2 Taiga
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Contagion
4 Reverent Silence
3 Emerald Charm
I would like to see you thoughts on this. I'm trying to find a newer build but I havn't seen any. Sad thing is all im missing is my bazzars for a complete deck. :<
ive played a lot of variants to manaless ichorid i saw this one online and had to try it out i like the way it runs, the only thing i dont like is if i run up against a monoB and the sb extripates tormods crypt or yixlid jailer, i cant stop that exept with therapys. im going to a t1 torny with this deck on the 18 lmk what you think. Maindeck:
First of all, you have over 60 cards, which seems rather silly, particularly in this deck. Baubles are awful as well, I would use the space to bolster key cards, and include more neutral sideboard cards main (such as arbor, leyline, or unmask). In this way, you gain more sideboard space without really hurting the deck.
First of all, you have over 60 cards, which seems rather silly, particularly in this deck. Baubles are awful as well, I would use the space to bolster key cards, and include more neutral sideboard cards main (such as arbor, leyline, or unmask). In this way, you gain more sideboard space without really hurting the deck.
the baubles are great to help dredge, and what r u talking about mb has 60
Could you provide some statistical analysis regarding the baubles? They really seem inferior to other options. How often does a delayed single draw really influence an accelerated kill? A bazaar by itself kills somewhere between turn 2 and 3 on average, and even street wraith can be underwhelming in my experience, as a single draw isn't that influential when compared to other options. Furthermore, you have completely vulnerized yourself to many ichorid hate cards. You actually literally just lose if they cast a Yixlid Jailer, for instance, or even needle can shut you down, since you have no methods to remove such cards.
i can take care of the needles with the sb, the only way i can take care of jailers is with therapys, im trying to find other stuff to take care of that problem, baubles and the street wraiths are to dredge, plus the baubles can help out therapys. and after i cycle street wraith i can remove it with ichord.
So i just build this last night and was goldfishing it a little bit. What I want to know is how do you know when to mulligan with the serum powder in your hand. It seems like that is the most difficult part. What are the cards that I absolutly dont want to remove?
You don't want to remove vital stuff- no removing Bazaar (duh!), no removing Dread Returns (If you can help it) no removing bridges, and try not to remove narcomoebas or ichorids. Especially don't remove any Flame-kin dudes. Everything else is fair game.
You don't want to remove vital stuff- no removing Bazaar (duh!), no removing Dread Returns (If you can help it) no removing bridges, and try not to remove narcomoebas or ichorids. Especially don't remove any Flame-kin dudes. Everything else is fair game.
Yeah Bazaar I know. Though its certain situations where some things seem justifiable. Like tossing a Dread Return against stax where your probably going with the aggro ichorid route. I guess I should just play it and see what happens. Is removing a multiple dredgers really worth it? 1 troll and 1 Stinkweed to improve your chances for a Bazaar? To many difficult decisions in type 1. Thanks for the help.
Mulliganing can be pretty difficult with manaless ichorid. Here's a guide I constructed.
Step 1: Do you have Bazaar of Baghdad in your hand?
-> If yes, go to step 2
-> If no, mulligan (removing a powder for its effect at all times if possible) and repeat step 1.
Step 2: Keep
Really, thats all you do. Always. Don't overthink it, you mulligan into bazaar. Even removing win conditions is usually okay. Statistically, all you need is the bazaar.
Mulliganing can be pretty difficult with manaless ichorid. Here's a guide I constructed.
Step 1: Do you have Bazaar of Baghdad in your hand?
-> If yes, go to step 2
-> If no, mulligan (removing a powder for its effect at all times if possible) and repeat step 1.
Step 2: Keep
Really, thats all you do. Always. Don't overthink it, you mulligan into bazaar. Even removing win conditions is usually okay. Statistically, all you need is the bazaar.
I have never played Ichorid, but I have universally found this to be true in all of my matches against Ichorid. My opponent will always mulligan into Bazaar. That is pretty much the strategy; that's what makes the deck so consistent.
Mulliganing can be pretty difficult with manaless ichorid. Here's a guide I constructed.
Step 1: Do you have Bazaar of Baghdad in your hand?
-> If yes, go to step 2
-> If no, mulligan (removing a powder for its effect at all times if possible) and repeat step 1.
Step 2: Keep
Really, thats all you do. Always. Don't overthink it, you mulligan into bazaar. Even removing win conditions is usually okay. Statistically, all you need is the bazaar.
In fairness, I think that was missing the question, which was specifically about serum powder. E.G. It's hand 1 and you have a powder, flame-kin, and no Bazaar. Do you paris mulligan or do you powder? Getting Bazaar into your hand is a no-brainer and wasn't at issue.
My post answered that question indirectly: ditch the flame-kin. It won't matter if you have flame-kin in deck or not if you don't have bazaar, and powder gives you a valuable free mulligan plus statistical increase in likelihood of hitting bazaar.
In short, ditch the flame-kin. You can easily win without it.
My post answered that question indirectly: ditch the flame-kin. It won't matter if you have flame-kin in deck or not if you don't have bazaar, and powder gives you a valuable free mulligan plus statistical increase in likelihood of hitting bazaar.
In short, ditch the flame-kin. You can easily win without it.
Well seems straight foreward enough. I'm gonna be testing it some this weekend, so i'll keep to this stategy and see how it works out.
I have also noticed the street wraith has been taken out of most lists. Is there a better card to run in its place, or should it be a spot to move some of the sideboard cards into the main (emerald charm) to combat some of the mainboard hate people are running now. Whats better sideboard against needle, ancient grudge or oxidze. I like the grudge because you dont have to draw it to use it.
Im really likeing this deck and its a nice change from GAT.
has anyone ever considered taking this deck and mixing it with elements of the 8 land stopmy deck from a while back? The 'Free' landfetch spell from Mercadian Masques seems like it could be used with a 1 of bayou or something to make this deck stronger...or maybe even give it an alternate way to win against the Leyline of the Void SB
I run two Bayous in my board, and have never felt the need to ruin the consistency of the deck so that I could draw one. Especially since Dryad Arbors should be in your deck anyways.
To answer the mulligan Q's, dont get rid of ichorids, unless absolutely necessary, like if you mulled to 3 and you have serum powder, and i dont use bayou cause i dont need it. i rarely have to SB, cause the deck's MB dose well against most meta deck, i havent lost to stax, GAT, or DEEZ NAUGHTs. my record with it is 13-1, i lost cause i had to leave.
Now, this isn't an extremely comparable statistical analysis, but results would indicate that this is true, as manaed ichorids have, in the last few months, been putting up a higher quantity of results in tournament settings, albeit a relatively low sample size, but thats what we have to work with in this format.
That being said, I would advise slight revisions of the above decklist. Replacing sea with colossium is almost obvious, as colossium is significantly better than even bazaar once threshold is reached (meaning, after a dredge typically from some other source). LED also seems underwhelming, so I would advise its replacement.
<.<
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichroid
4 Golgari Grave-troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
4 Dryad Arbor
2 Cephalid Sage
2 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Bazzar of Baghdad
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Bridge from Below
4 Serum Powder
4 Chalice of the Void
Side Board
2 Taiga
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Contagion
4 Reverent Silence
3 Emerald Charm
I would like to see you thoughts on this. I'm trying to find a newer build but I havn't seen any. Sad thing is all im missing is my bazzars for a complete deck. :<
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Serum Powder
3 Urza's Bauble
Creatures
1 Cephalid Sage
2 Flame-kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Shambling Shell
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
Enchantments
4 Bridge From Below
Sorceries
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Dread Return
Lands
4 Bazaar Of Baghdad
Sideboard:
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Emerald Charm
4 Reverent Silence
1 Windswept Heath
4 Dryad Arbor
the baubles are great to help dredge, and what r u talking about mb has 60
Could you provide some statistical analysis regarding the baubles? They really seem inferior to other options. How often does a delayed single draw really influence an accelerated kill? A bazaar by itself kills somewhere between turn 2 and 3 on average, and even street wraith can be underwhelming in my experience, as a single draw isn't that influential when compared to other options. Furthermore, you have completely vulnerized yourself to many ichorid hate cards. You actually literally just lose if they cast a Yixlid Jailer, for instance, or even needle can shut you down, since you have no methods to remove such cards.
I run three in my SB.
Thanks to Alacar Leoricar for the awsome banner!
Great Quotes
"Luck is statistics taken personally." - X DarkAngel X
Yeah Bazaar I know. Though its certain situations where some things seem justifiable. Like tossing a Dread Return against stax where your probably going with the aggro ichorid route. I guess I should just play it and see what happens. Is removing a multiple dredgers really worth it? 1 troll and 1 Stinkweed to improve your chances for a Bazaar? To many difficult decisions in type 1. Thanks for the help.
Thanks to Alacar Leoricar for the awsome banner!
Great Quotes
"Luck is statistics taken personally." - X DarkAngel X
Step 1: Do you have Bazaar of Baghdad in your hand?
-> If yes, go to step 2
-> If no, mulligan (removing a powder for its effect at all times if possible) and repeat step 1.
Step 2: Keep
Really, thats all you do. Always. Don't overthink it, you mulligan into bazaar. Even removing win conditions is usually okay. Statistically, all you need is the bazaar.
I have never played Ichorid, but I have universally found this to be true in all of my matches against Ichorid. My opponent will always mulligan into Bazaar. That is pretty much the strategy; that's what makes the deck so consistent.
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Both hilarious and effective. And true.
Follow this man!
In short, ditch the flame-kin. You can easily win without it.
Well seems straight foreward enough. I'm gonna be testing it some this weekend, so i'll keep to this stategy and see how it works out.
I have also noticed the street wraith has been taken out of most lists. Is there a better card to run in its place, or should it be a spot to move some of the sideboard cards into the main (emerald charm) to combat some of the mainboard hate people are running now. Whats better sideboard against needle, ancient grudge or oxidze. I like the grudge because you dont have to draw it to use it.
Im really likeing this deck and its a nice change from GAT.
Thanks to Alacar Leoricar for the awsome banner!
Great Quotes
"Luck is statistics taken personally." - X DarkAngel X