Quote from The PinsirI tried searching for the answer, but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. Forgive me if this is posted elsewhere.
I've heard (and read) that a lot of vintage tourneys (perhaps all of them?) allow players to use proxies, either because some cards are too hard to get or because players would rather not bend/scratch power cards. Anyway, is this true?
If so, how many can you have per deck? I'm sure there has to be a limit; it'd be kinda stupid if I was allowed to show up to a tourney with 60 proxies and play. Also, do you print your own proxies, sharpie on a common/land or something, or does the judge provide them at the event?
Also, if the proxy thing is true, does playing vintage eventually end up cheaper than T2 in the long run? It would seem like it, but I've never really played T2 except for fun FNM tourneys.
Quote from LoneDerangerUsually the number is about 10, although I've recently been seeing more and more 25+ish ones.
Quote from necrogenesis
Wow, 25 proxies? Where are those at? How big are the turnouts? What's the entry fee and prize structure for those like? I'm really curious.
Quote from nannaI think proxies are bad for tourneys. I also think that tourneys who allow proxies are bad. If you wanna make proxies to run ideas with your friends that fine. But I think that any event held at any store that sells cards should not allow them. If you dont have the $$ for the real cards, play Type II.
Quote from bocephusCost one less then tinker and has legs (I wont even go into the extra cost for tinker)... To me thats better.
Quote from hecuterAs someone who's just getting into vintage, the initial investment is pretty off-putting. Sure, I've picked up the Vault and FoWs, and I'm considering the Underground Seas/Mana Drains, but when I look at $3500 for Jewelery as compare that to my moving out savings, it's a matter of priority. I'd love to play Vintage formats, but when the current players sniff at proxies like those using them are to be looked down on, it makes them seem like a bunch of elitist snobs. Ultimately the format needs new blood to stay alive and proxies seem like a good way of doing just that.
Quote from CaselogikEven though I feel the same way, Proxies are a necessary evil. If you sit accross from someone who is fully powered, and you have a budget deck, there is a definite advantage to the fully powered individual. Also, if we implemented this practice, we would speeden the destruction of this beloved format. Currently, there are only a few hundred people in the US who play this format competitively. We rely on proxy tournaments to generate interest in this format.
However, I find myself slightly disappointed when I am in the top 8 at a Vintage tourney and my first match or two are with people who have "Black Lotus" scribbled illegibly on the back of shockland.
Quote from quicksilverviiThere is an excellent article about this very question by Steve Menendian. I cannot locate it, but you have a couple of things to think about.
The amount of proxies in the tournament really affects which decks are played.
If you allow unlimited proxies, more people will play, but people will shy away from decks like fish which are considerably cheaper to build than decks like Oath and TPS. However, it does not require people to invest in the format.
People will not have to own power, but will have to own things like dual lands. You will see some decks fully powered, but you will still need cards like duals and grim tutor to play TPS. Will also shift the meta, but not by much.
This is force people to own power, or try budget alternatives. Though I think this is where I would like most people to be able to play (and keep the format healthy) it creates a larger barrier to entry than the previous options.
No proxy - sanctioned.
I think the magic number is 5, but to get a decent turnout (especially in a new place) you will have to entice new members and remove the cost barrier to play. I think you should try what my shop does and then adjust accordingly in subsequent months:
They do the 25-25-25 rule.
25c per proxy beyond the 25th card.
It is a great way to get people interested in the format, and doesn't quite break the bank.
Eventually, I think you may want to decrease this number to 20, 15, and so on as people pick up the cards to be able to play.
Quote from Yesterdays HeroI proxy my Alexandria. My Twister. Will proxy my Sapphire when it shows up. Along with the rest of my p10. Proxy a dual? Die. P10 should have proxys, as I don't need some snot nosed asshat 'checking' to see if my ancestral is real or not.
Quote from CaselogikHowever, I find myself slightly disappointed when I am in the top 8 at a Vintage tourney and my first match or two are with people who have "Black Lotus" scribbled illegibly on the back of shockland.
Quote from Yesterdays HeroPerhaps I'm misunderstanding 'Proxy'.
If I'm at a Vintage Tourney and someone has a Camel with Black Lotus scrawled on it, and there's no physical Lotus they own at the Tourney? Then yeah I have a problem with that.
If they have their Power in Hard Sleeves and throw them over a Proxy when the Proxy is played? Fine with me. I've seen some real dumb players shuffle someone elses power deck, and they cards (especially the top parts) get scraped.