MTG Salvation

Quote from Leelue »

Anyway, to the people not running Migrating Ketradon: why not? It, skyserpent seeker, and gloryheath Lynx seem like the only absolute slam dunks.

Ketradon costs 6 mana as has cycling cost of 2, so its overpriced on both fronts. I could only see it if you were running reanimator theme, where the colorless cycling cost is probably better than if it was just . Its not a great ramp payoff either and without trample can easily be chumped. Ridgescale Tusker is cheaper, Great Oak Guardian is a better ramp payoff. (I know im running much worse high mana cards in green, but thats because of the UG archetype needs. And my vision of fun ).

skyserpent seeker - I don't get the hype for the card. It's a 1/1 flying deathtouch for Its ovepriced as green gets deathtouchers for 1 mana, and hard to cast. Is the combination of flying deathtouch so desperately needed in UG? Why? Because of the lack of removal in those colors? Ramping for 4 mana (for 6 really) is overcosted and on a defensive deathtoucher additional power won't matter. I'd rather have Maraleaf Pixie instead. Is it because of the counter synergies in UG? I love the art and when in my DnD campaign our druid will finally be albo to turn into Quetzalcoatlus it will look like this not some random pterodactyl, but the card doesn't appeal to me.

gloryheath Lynx - card doesn't synergize with anything in my cube outside of Bloodthirsty Aerialist and cat in the art looks like a squirrel to me. And I'm wary about adding cards on stats alone in a color that supports 4 different archetypes. Id rather add Sundial, Dawn Tyrant that beats it on stats and is an artifact for UW pair.

Adding:

• Gloryheath Lynx
  
• Stock Up
  
• Shefet Archfiend
  
• Greasewrench Goblin
  
• Fuel the Flames
  
• Defend the Rider
  
• Veteran Beastrider
  
• Skyserpent Seeker

Quote from Vandergahast »

"Ketradon costs 6 mana as has cycling cost of 2, so its overpriced on both fronts."
This is all the 5 drops of the last decade with more than 4 power and more than 4 toughness:
https://scryfall.com/search?q=cmc=5 pow>4 tou>4 r<r year>2015 -is:reprint -t:vehicle&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
The only cards here that could suggest that a 6/6 reach etb gain 4 costs 5 are Quaketusk Boar and Charging Monstrosaur. If you looked at all the 6 drops, Ketradon even without cycling fits right in:
https://scryfall.com/search?q=cmc=6 pt>10 r=u year>2015 -is:reprint -t:vehicle game=paper&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
(I changed the filter a bit to exclude less relevant cards, but it did also take off great oak guardian)
Just looking at the on-board result most of us would put Great Oak Guardian first, then... Galewind Moose, then... the ketradon is there with Spinewoods armadillo. I would wager that whatever you make up for in results when you cast the Moose is made up for and then some in what you get by not taking a virtual mulligan every hand where it isn't timely and you need other cards now.


Its not a great ramp payoff either and without trample can easily be chumped.
Shouldn't worry about chumping much when the life you gained is going to make it harder for them to kill you in return. Over half of my green high drops gain life, and this inherent mitigation makes the prospect of edicting yourself to win a race untenable

Ridgescale Tusker is cheaper, Great Oak Guardian is a better ramp payoff.
Tusker isn't a card for defensive builds. And I'm not talking about replacing The Tree, which is probably the best or second best high drop in the color

skyserpent seeker - Is the combination of flying deathtouch so desperately needed in UG? Why? Because of the lack of removal in those colors?
No, but that does help its case.

Ramping for 4 mana (for 6 really) is overcosted...
Not fair to lump the cost of what will be a 2/2 the flying deathtoucher, which is certainly 2 mana, in with the ability.

and on a defensive deathtoucher additional power won't matter.
Turning from a defensive creature to one that now is a significant contributor in the race matters. Of course it matters. A 1/1 deathtouch flyer is never getting blocked. Now, if you're ahead, it can start necessitating trades with things bigger than it.

I'd rather have Maraleaf Pixie instead.
Never thought I'd hear those words
Once the snake activates it ability, it never has to be tied down again. And it will attack better, block better, ramp more, ramp permanently, and for more colors. Dumping lands into play is one of the most broken effects in the game, very often better than drawing cards

Is it because of the counter synergies in UG?
I generally think those synergies are bad and very few cards are worth running that care about counters, especially outside of white

gloryheath Lynx - I'm wary about adding cards on stats alone in a color that supports 4 different archetypes.
This I can understand. You're way, way on the end of the spectrum for explicit theme support. My themes are much more sparse, but even accounting for that we don't have much overlap: Only 93 of the cards in your 420 are in mine (most cubes share about 40% the same cards and we're at 28%) And there are cards I don't run for being too boring, too

Skyserpent Seeker getting as much attention as it is says more about Simic than the quality of the card tbh. I'm not running it because "ramp" is a shitty guild identity and while Blue has some cool top end cards, its creatures from like 4-6 are pretty uninspiring as far as "omg gotta ramp these fatties" go. I think simic has a lot more potential to be an interesting grave guild in the UBG shard.

Or maybe I'm just biased against ramp decks hahaha

The discussion around Skyserpent Seeker is interesting. As the only card I will be adding, I feel the need to come to its defense.

-A 2-mana Flying Deathtouch comes down early and discourages more aggressive attacks, as it trades favorably with just about any creature (without first strike).
-It compares to Baleful Strix, the most played Dimir card in the 2024 average cube. It's clearly not as powerful (what is?), missing the cantrip, but it does offer an Explosive Veggies-like effect in consolation (without costing another card).
-The combination of buying time (on defense) and ramping into larger threats works in its favor.
-Being in green, the color most likely to pump it to greater power, makes it more relevant as an evasive threat on offense.
-The +1/+1 counter it gives itself may be the most minor aspect, but even that helps, both on defense and on offense.
-Cards that support multiple archetypes are more desirable in draft. This fits Flying, +1/+1 Counters-Matters/Proliferate, and Ramp/Big Stompy.
-I just don't ever see myself disappointed to pull this in a draft.

Not a huge fan of vehicles and saddles, so this was a pretty disappointing set. Black and red still got some nice cards though.

Definite Adds

• Ride’s End - Slightly versatility upgrade to Seized from Slumber, and it exiles instead of destroys. I am purposely trying out some of White's less powerful removal.
• Grim Bauble - Cheap removal that can also be used for self mill
• Wreckage Wickerfolk - Good blocker against the plethora of bird and spirit tokens while providing some graveyard and card filtering support.
• Fuel the Flames - Probably worth the additional mana over Pyroclasm
• Greasewrench Goblin - Good on turn 1, provides value later, not completely dead if drawn late. Amazing 1 drop.

Considered

• Gloryheath Lynx - Good stats but not on theme and I don't care much for saddle.
• Lotusguard Disciple - I like the ETB but I'm trying to up the number of specifically instant speed combat tricks, so this doesn't help.
• Diversion unit - Blue's 2/1 Flyers for 2 have gotten really packed. This is probably the 3rd or 4th best version, and I only have room for 2 (Plumecreed Escort and Zephyr Sentinel)
• Stock Up - Seems good, but sorcery speed and not putting cards into the graveyard means it's just not interesting enough.
• Sabotage Strategist - Seems interesting but a bit fragile.
• Shefet Archfiend - Not sure I have room for another 6+ plus creature in black, but it is a good reanimation target. Might test still.
• Migrating Ketradon - Has a very high floor and will almost never be bad. However, it's kind of boring and I think worse than Spinewoods Armadillo and Generous Ent
• Molt Tender - Needed better stats or to mill more. I like the concept though.
• Broodheart Engine - Good if played early, but 6 mana for a reanimate is bad if you draw it late. I still might test this.

Ramp is an uninspired identity, but junk winder, woodland champion, cloakwood swarmkeeper, and combine chrysalis can't carry a theme all on their own. Neither Green nor Blue are in the top 2 colors for aggro, and they are the two worst colors for removal. So... what is there to do? Not every simic deck had to lean into it, but you can't deny that drawing cards and making mana are peanut butter and chocolate: it just works.

Lastly, I agree, blue doesn't have much high end in the way of creatures. But you can just bury your opponent in cards and cast multiple spells every turn cycle.

I wonder how often Skyserpent Seeker will actually dissuade or stall attackers. It doesn't feel great to attack into, but I think I will almost always would because of I don't it will get worse. So unless the exhaust ability gets used immediately, it should probably function more like a removal spell or magnet. Still good enough, I think, but needing it to survive a couple turns to actually ramp might hurt a lot vs a good aggro deck.

If you value the ramp ability of the skyserpent seeker enough that you won't block with it, than it having deathtouch doesn't matter. Its owner gains mana advantage only if it kill 3+ drop or uses its ability - and in that case it would have to not trade by turn 4, so its not deterring attackers and not ramping in the meantime. 2 mana is a weird spot for the ramp deck, as 1 mana mana dorks allow playing 3 drops on turn 2, and those hopefully are better at defending as they don't trade as easily as 1/1 deathtouchers.

I have to agree with Leelue that Ketradon is the best stabilizer for 6 mana in green. I just think that stabilization should come sooner for the ramp decks, than at 6 mana.

That

Quote from Vandergahast »

If you value the ramp ability of the skyserpent seeker enough that you won't block with it, than it having deathtouch doesn't matter.

?? This is some wholly unnecessary black and white thinking
Everything is conditional.
Stuck on 2? trade it off. Stuck on 3? consider trading it off. Your hand happens to be easier to dump than expected? consider trading it off. Afraid of losing to... Sundial, Dawn Tyrant? Trade it off without getting value since you'd rather be alive than dead. Not under a ton of pressure? double ramp and probably win the game.

//

I think the only 5 mana green stabilizer that I really like is Blossom Prancer, but Arborback stomper isn't bad. At 4 there's Obstinate Baloth/Fierce Witchstalker. Professor of Zoomancy to a lesser extent. But it's not like you shouldn't be able to make it to 6 mana in a ramp deck unless the tokens have swarmed you down and you had no sweeper.

It should be noted that Greenbelt Guardian is doing really well if DFT. Koitsume pointed out to me that it is like a modernized Untamed Kavu. It'll become a 5/5 "haste" at some point. Paying for cards in installments has been working really well this decade.

Quote from Leelue »

It should be noted that Greenbelt Guardian is doing really well if DFT. Koitsume pointed out to me that it is like a modernized Untamed Kavu. It'll become a 5/5 "haste" at some point. Paying for cards in installments has been working really well this decade.

That's actually a really good point. I will likely replace Untamed Kavu with it. Vigilance and not having to pay for trample is nice, sure, but I would prefer the ability to play early and upgrade later as well as the ability to spread trample as needed.

While I know most Alchemy cards aren't ever printed on paper due to being too hard to track or play out in paper Bail out is super sweet and honestly has no reason not to be printed in paper so I might test it out in my cube.

Oooh I really wish they printed Bail Out as a real card!

Quote from Ulka »

While I know most Alchemy cards aren't ever printed on paper due to being too hard to track or play out in paper Bail out is super sweet and honestly has no reason not to be printed in paper so I might test it out in my cube.

I think you really need the overload to play a combo role in aristocrats for this to be good. Otherwise, I don't like playing a trick that can't help my creature win combat. I like Supernatural Stamina and Unnatural Endurance more for that reason.

Having a.... sigh... bailout on the card shouldn't make you judge it more harshly. If it was just a 4 mana instant with the effect it'd be cool but perhaps a bit too clunky.

I would include alchemy cards (that can be done on paper) alllllll the time if I could expect my secondary draft group to not vomit reflexively at the mention of it. I think they'd accept Forsaken Crossroads, but the card I'm really stalking is Tenacious Pup. Sadly, I think the word "boon" is over the line for these Jabronis even if I did throw most of a day's pay away to get the paper version.

Quote from Aidoneus »

Quote from Ulka »

While I know most Alchemy cards aren't ever printed on paper due to being too hard to track or play out in paper Bail out is super sweet and honestly has no reason not to be printed in paper so I might test it out in my cube.

I think you really need the overload to play a combo role in aristocrats for this to be good. Otherwise, I don't like playing a trick that can't help my creature win combat. I like Supernatural Stamina and Unnatural Endurance more for that reason.

The reason I like Bail Out is more of the combo potential. Goblin Bombardment sacs become 3 damage so swinging with five 1/1s then saccing them to Bombardment and using this is 20 damage.

Yes that is a magic Christmas land scenario but still even for 4 attackers its 12 damage on sac and whatever gets through so it becomes a combo card in that regard.

I see. I was looking at it more for the one mana side with the overload as bonus. If you see this more as a four mana card, then I dislike it for a different reason. Now we're talking about a four mana spell that only has an effect when you 1) already have a built up board, 2) already have a sac outlet, 3) don't mind obliterating your own board, and 4) have your opponent at a life total where this is a game-winning play. That is way too conditional for me to want to draft, let alone use up a cube slot on, especially because it really only goes in 1 or 2 archetypes.