MTG Salvation

Let's get this controversy party started.
In all seriousness, this set will likely be divisive, but we do have some cards spoiled, so we may as well discuss them.

Reprieve - A color-shifted Remand that can even hit uncounterable stuff. This is a decent tempo piece that replaces itself and explores some new territory for white. The generic name gives me hope that we may get a reprint in a non-Universes Beyond set.

Samwise the Stouthearted - Mechanically, I like this card, aside from, you know, the part that I don't know what it means. I really hate it when they print cards where reading the card does not, in fact, explain the card. If they cut the last five words, I'd be tempted.

You Cannot Pass! - We've been getting a lot more uncommon legends, but Peasant cube just isn't the home for this card.

Gollum, Patient Plotter - Again, no idea what being tempted by the ring does. Even without that, this is no Reassembling Skeleton, as you have to pay 1BB and sac a creature each time you recur it.

Yeah, I already really do not like the 'the ring tempts you' mechanic for it not being explained on the cards and having such a specific naming which tells you nothing, too. If it is like Initiative or dungeons, I will very likely not include the cards with it. Monarch is fine to me because you just get an emblem that interacts with basic mechanics in a consistent way. The ones that rely on reminder cards are such a huge no-no because you cannot explain the mechanics simply if someone asks. You have to refer to the reminder cards while drafting to even remember what the cards actually do in play.

However, I am interested in Reprieve and at least Sam does seem usable if the extra effect is not *****e.

Hah. Imagine if the effect is something referenced on the One Ring card such as drawing a card and then losing a life for each time that the ring has tempted you in this game.

REPRIEVE!

Reprieve is such a 360 windmill dunk of a card for Peasant cubes. Unlike other white counterspells (like Mana Tithe) this is directly comparable to a blue spell that is very highly cubed.

For a sneak preview, it is kind of fun to speculate on what it means to be "Tempted by the Ring." I am presuming the effect has some benefit based on the cards currently showcased. Especially given that Gollum, Patient Plotter seems to have a clear "1BB: Get Tempted by the Ring" mode. I had a friend suggest something like a dungeon where maybe the 5th step is a big drawback, but the first four are small rewards. VariSami's idea makes the most sense to me, since it creates uniformity amongst cards in the set.

Reprieve is a snap include into both my standard Peasant cube and turbo peasant cube which is rare a card makes both.

Samwise the Stouthearted is intriguing for me for atleast turbo cube given the flash and the fact that there are so many self-sacrificing artficat in that cube for free that he becomes an added draw + extra triggers.

I've been fiddling with white counterspells in my custom cube, and this sounds great. Guess I'm waiting til *this* set to officially update my cubecobra list.

Re: Reprieve

I am in the minority on this one it seems, but I don't love the idea of white getting a better Remand. From Maro's 2021 article on the color pie:

Counterspell

Primary: Blue
Tertiary: White

Counterspelling is one of the few abilities that's almost universally used in a single color. White dips its toe into the ability with taxing and delay-style counterspells.

Reprieve is definitely a delay-style counterspell, but unlike Lapse of Certainty, which was a more expensive version of another card we run, Memory Lapse, Reprieve is just plain better than Remand. That seems inconsistent with the definition of tertiary and the way abilities are normally used in their tertiary colors. And, perhaps most importantly from a cube design standpoint, I don't want White doing Blue's thing better than Blue.

Quote from A_WasherDryer »

Re: Reprieve

I am in the minority on this one it seems, but I don't love the idea of white getting a better Remand. From Maro's 2021 article on the color pie:

Counterspell

Primary: Blue
Tertiary: White

Counterspelling is one of the few abilities that's almost universally used in a single color. White dips its toe into the ability with taxing and delay-style counterspells.

Reprieve is definitely a delay-style counterspell, but unlike Lapse of Certainty, which was a more expensive version of another card we run, Memory Lapse, Reprieve is just plain better than Remand. That seems inconsistent with the definition of tertiary and the way abilities are normally used in their tertiary colors. And, perhaps most importantly from a cube design standpoint, I don't want White doing Blue's thing better than Blue.

I view Reprieve as less a counterspell, which is a hard answer, and more of a soft tempo card. While it's true that blue has thus far had a monopoly on all forms of countermagic, I actually hope this is a sign that the color pie is evolving to give each color a more nuanced approach/identity.

Take for example, blink/flicker cards. For a while, blue and white had no distinct identity for this mechanism. But over time, they seem to have settled on blue getting instant flicker (exiles and comes back immediately) while white tends to get slow flicker (exiles until end of turn). This matters, because while both colors can retrigger abilities and break targeting lock, blue gets surprise untap while white can dodge board wipes. They are different flavors of a similar ability.

And to me it makes sense that blue should be primary in hard counters, but they should not have a monopoly on all forms of stack interaction. Seriously, blue has hard counters by the dozens like Counterspell AND taxation counters like Mana Leak AND tempo counters like Memory Lapse/Unsubstantiate AND theft counters like Desertion/Aethersnatch. It's about time they find color-appropriate ways to give tools to the other colors. Tibalt's Trickery gives red a chaotic version, and Reprieve (as well as Lapse of Certainty) give white a chance to buy some time.

This is a topic that I have to begrudgingly admit is subjective, but I do feel fairly strongly about.

Plenty of colors get one-off standout cards that are better or competitive with the primary colors. Tertiary can mean that the cards are worse, but it also can mean that the cards are just less commonly printed.

If in 2024 MaRo writes an article where he explains that white has been upgraded to have soft counters regularly, and then we go through a couple of years of this new development, would you run them then?

I don't want to design based on the year by year whims of the company. I just want stuff that's justifiably printable.

I can say that it does feel... weird? to give white directly analogous cards that are strictly better than famous blue cards. I would have preferred if they gave white different competitive soft counters rather than reskinned greatest hits. But this form of soft counter (bounce instead of tithing) doesn't have the same in-game ramifications, insofar as being worried that your important card is going to go directly from the stack to the yard, never to be seen again. Which is a play pattern that remains firmly in blue, even with such an addition.

@FunkyDragon and @Leelue - I appreciate you both weighing in on this. FunkyDragon's point about the way blink/flicker effects have been refined over the years into something that feels distinctly different is well taken and has shifted my thoughts on Reprieve a bit. And, Leelue, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels a bit weird about including a strictly better white remand.

Also, I totally get not wanting your design choices to feel tied to whatever choices the people currently running WotC are making. But, aren't we all sort of beholden to that already since we're designing cubes using cards they create (and at rarities they assign)? But, to answer Leelue's question, "maybe." I already accept things in my cube that break from the current understanding of the color pie just because they were printed a long time ago and my playgroup and I have a lot of nostalgia associated with them (e.g., I run Sword to Plowshares despite Black being the primary color for unconditional removal). So, it isn't too much of a stretch to say that what I'd accept for a color to do might shift as the color pie evolves and more cards get printed.

Going to think a bit more on Reprieve. For now though, I like having white's stack interaction be more creature focused (e.g., Ephemerate, Fight as One, Harm's Way, Feat of Resistance).

Thanks again to both of you for responding and giving your perspective!

Reprieve is exciting - I’m already running mana tithe (at the moment at least), and reprieve I think is in an interesting spot where it’s clearly a better card on average than tithe/spike, but perhaps a bit worse in white relatively because it’s two mana. The higher cost I think is important, just because blue simply has more instants/flash so it’s more likely to be able to hold up 2 mana than white, which makes reprieve inherently just a bit more telegraphed and situational than remand. That dynamic I think assuages any fears I would have about color pie blurring.

Quote from A_WasherDryer »

I totally get not wanting your design choices to feel tied to whatever choices the people currently running WotC are making. But, aren't we all sort of beholden to that already since we're designing cubes using cards they create (and at rarities they assign)?

The primary draws to living with the peasant(or peasant+) cube restriction are:
1) Justifying to other people why certain cards are not in the list
2) Having our ragtag community to bounce ideas off of

But yes, it is ultimately somewhat arbitrary. If we had some list of cards objectively ranked by how warping they are to the singleton limited format around them they would be, we could all use the... "Cloudgoat Ranger and friends" cube instead.

Quote from Bellectrons »

blue simply has more instants/flash so it’s more likely to be able to hold up 2 mana than white, which makes reprieve inherently just a bit more telegraphed and situational than remand. That dynamic I think assuages any fears I would have about color pie blurring.

Well, until white gets 4 more Cathar Commando variants