I know the Baloth has been a bit outclassed in recent years, even by uncommons, but I want to give it a shot. There was a time when it was even a powered cube regular and I want to see how it might perform in my environment.
Zephyr Sentinel > Skyship Plunderer - Sentinel supports UG flash, and UW blink/ETB effects, while being straight up stronger. I just wish it didn't mention soldiers, I don't want drafters getting the false impression there's a soldier theme in my cube. Skyship plunderer is still pretty good, it may make it back into my cube over a different 2 drop eventually.
Dreams of Steel and Oil > Harsh Scrutiny - Hitting artifacts, something from the graveyard, and exiling both is more important than the scry 1 on Harsh Scrutiny
Maybe Include/Still Searching for a Cut
Combat Thresher - Good payoff for counters/auras/equipment and blink. May be weak without the support though.
Ashnod's Harvester - Pretty strong aggro card and having some mild graveyard hate is probably good for the cube.
Burrowing Razormaw - I've been looking for more self-milling effects for green and this seems like a reasonable rate on a creature for it. Competing against Excavation Mole.
Bushwhack - Decent options on both sides. Would be a definite include if it were instant speed.
For my artifact/enchantment theme cube, this set provides some needed artifact synergy to black and green, and a good number of color-aligned artifacts. I'm thinking of making a special section for them. The following cards are likely additions.
I totally missed that card during spoilers and my set review. Definitely an upgrade, as it has three advantages.
- Adds non-creature artifacts (only affects 7 cards in my cube, most notably Sol Ring or an uncrewed Untethered Express)
- Less color restrictive (3U rather than 2UU)
- ETB rather than kicker (saves mana if it's going to be countered, and in a desperate situation, it can be reset on a later, more urgent untapped target with Teferi's Time Twist)
I'll be making this switch in my cube, as well.
Zephyr Sentinel ...I just wish it didn't mention soldiers, I don't want drafters getting the false impression there's a soldier theme in my cube.
Random question for everyone - Mark Rosewater some years ago wrote an article about this phenomenon, where extra text on a card adds undesired complexity and distracts from the main use of the card, giving players a false impression or leading them to reject the card even when it otherwise serves their purposes. I've tried off and on to find the article again, or at least to remember what he called the phenomenon, but I haven't had any luck. Any chance anyone remembers this?
I remember something like that, but I can't be 100% certain I am not conflating it with other topics he or others have spoken on. I want to say it was a discussion about a Kavu card with kicker, possibly Kavu Titan or Untamed Kavu,and how players "misplayed" the card because they saw the kicker text and undervalued the option to just play it as a 2/2 when they needed a 2/2.
I remember something like that, but I can't be 100% certain I am not conflating it with other topics he or others have spoken on. I want to say it was a discussion about a Kavu card with kicker, possibly Kavu Titan or Untamed Kavu,and how players "misplayed" the card because they saw the kicker text and undervalued the option to just play it as a 2/2 when they needed a 2/2.
Thank you! I checked out the Kavu Titan story, and a couple google searches down that rabbit hole, I found what I was looking for. He called it "additive distraction."
People will focus on the [specific condition], and many will come to the conclusion that there isn't really a deck for this card... But here's the thing: players were excited by the card without the extra line of text... It has a conditional upside. It's just as good as the original and, in a very narrow case, can be even better. My point is that how players perceive cards is very connected to how they process what's on it. -Source
I've been looking unsuccessfully for this for a couple years, and the conversation about Zephyr Sentinel prompted me to ask.
"My point is that how players perceive cards is very connected to how they process what's on it."
At least from our standpoint, we could give false impressions that there are synergies to be seen that aren't to be found. But from a "how good is this card" standpoint, purely at the power level of things... I'm frustrated. Dealing with humans is so hard for me.
"My point is that how players perceive cards is very connected to how they process what's on it."
At least from our standpoint, we could give false impressions that there are synergies to be seen that aren't to be found. But from a "how good is this card" standpoint, purely at the power level of things... I'm frustrated. Dealing with humans is so hard for me.
Yeah, I kind of wish Zephyr Sentinel didn't have the soldier text, so so it was a more straight-forward card. It's plenty powerful without that text, and I hope it doesn't confuse any drafters. But I just added it to my cube anyway.
I actually used to exclude all tribe affiliated cards from my cube, since it's all fundamentally arbitrary. And to some degree I still believe that the cube would be better without these random tags mattering. (In fact, in my "all-these-cards-are-fake cube", cards that are similar to imperious perfect all make tokens that are creature types that otherwise don't exist in the cube at all, like... oozes)
I think as long as the ability isn't insanely powerful (and thus screams 'build around me') and as long as there is at least some kind of synergy in the cube it's fine from my pov.
I have plenty of soldiers in my cube (just like everyone else around here probably), just not in blue. It also depends on who you play with. I play with the same group of people so no one expects a soldier theme in blue. But I still don't believe that if you played with random people someone would first pick Zephyr Sentinel and then try to build a mono blue soldier tribal deck because of it. Especially since pretty much every Magic player who isn't completely new to the game probably knows that soldiers are a white creature type traditionally.
Zephyr Sentinel for Skyship Plunderer - not much to say here that hasn't already been said. The risk that the soldier text would mislead my drafters is low, and is outweighed by the upside Sentinel offers. It just does everything.
Recruitment Officer to Mardu Woe-Reaper - Each card offers slight upside, but that's not why we run Savannah Lion variants. The more interesting question was whether to cut Woe-Reaper or Dryad Militant and I think for now Woe-Reaper gets cut since it's "upside" is easier to forget and requires mental energy from my players than Militant does.
Giant Cindermaw for Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith - Toggo is the more interesting card, but it hasn't been good enough in practice. Plus, cutting Toggo let's me cut the Rock tokens and I've been fighting back against token creep lately. Cindermaw is big, dumb, and should play better than Toggo did based on how RG is actually being drafted in my cube.
Cards I may test from BRO:
Combat Thresher - I see this one primarily as a white card, and am mainly interested in it as a blink target.
Yes, it can be ramped into or reanimated, but with three toughness, Thresher dies to a little too much in my cube to be worth the extra work for those decks.
On the topic of ramp and reanimator, I may test Rust Goliath and Su-Chi Cave Guard in place of the more commonly run Eldrazi, Ulamog's Crusher and Artisan of Kozilek. Annihilator 2 will probably win games more consistently than 10 power of trample damage, but its such an unfun way to lose. I also like fact that Ward 4 on Cave Guard helps prevent players from getting punished for doing the ramp/reanimator things.
Ashnod's Harvester - decent aggressive card that helps give a little counter-play to graveyard shenanigans.
Gaea's Gift - 2 mana is so much more than 1, but I may test this over Blossoming Defense since it plays well with +1/+1 counter synergies and I want to have something else in that space in green besides just Snakeskin Veil.
Buying But Not Planning to Play / Don't Have Home For Yet:
Bushwhack - Solid Spell. Not excited about either mode on their own, but could see play if I want both effects but only have one spot in the future.
Third Path Iconoclast - Great card. But, UR already has plenty of ways in my environment to make bodies, half of my gold cards are already creatures (Sprite Dragon and Balmor, Battlemage Captain), and I want to leave some room for actual spells.
Static Net - Another 3W exile enchantment with upside is always welcome, but I like our existing options better for now.
Gurgling Annointer - someone else is going to have to show me that this card is worth the hassle. I don't think my black decks, especially UB, will have any trouble growing this, but those decks want to do that anyway without having to put a 3-mana 1/3 in their deck.
Horned Stoneseeker - A 2-mana 2/2 with Menace isn't bad, and like someone else mentioned the powerstone can be used for equipment, and there are some slight sacrifice synergies. I could see this finding a home one day.
Recommission - There are some good targets to bring back with this, but I don't want white using the yard like this in my cube.
Obstinate Baloth - Baloth got dunked on pretty hard in where when the downshift got spoiled, and I can see why. The options available to us at 5-mana (e.g., Arborback Stomper and Blossom Prancer) are significantly more powerful. BUT, I think people are also undervaluing how well Baloth can stabilize and board and four mana is a LOT less than five. I can see this making the cut one day if I find that my green decks need a little help getting over the hump against aggro.
But I still don't believe that if you played with random people someone would first pick Zephyr Sentinel and then try to build a mono blue soldier tribal deck because of it. Especially since pretty much every Magic player who isn't completely new to the game probably knows that soldiers are a white creature type traditionally.
Oh, I don't think that the average, thoughtful, invested player would either. But it'll happen every once in a while. My issues are really more about 1) it being arbitrary and 2) the strange psychological phenomenon of some people thinking a card is worse when it is given a niche bonus. The latter isn't a strike against the card's inclusion in cube, just an indictment of the species
Recommission - There are some good targets to bring back with this, but I don't want white using the yard like this in my cube.
But... why not? It's one thing to say "My blue section can't support an aggro card, so I don't run cloudfin raptor", because the card wouldn't perform. But if the card would actually play well, I don't understand why someone would have an issue with running it just because it does something against what's expected.
But... why not? It's one thing to say "My blue section can't support an aggro card, so I don't run cloudfin raptor", because the card wouldn't perform. But if the card would actually play well, I don't understand why someone would have an issue with running it just because it does something against what's expected.
I'm not quite sure what answer you're looking for. It is a design choice, and like most design choices, if you abstract it enough, its arbitrary.
But, in a general sense, I want the different decks in my environment to feel different. I want them to have things that they are better and worse at than the other decks, and to play differently from one another. It is an entirely viable design choice to have White care about the yard. Just look at what it is doing in BRO. Similarly, you could choose to run lots of Blue and Green cards that care about +1/+1 counters and make that Simic's thing, or run Green and White cards that care about token generation and make Green-White the go-wide archetype. BUT, if you've chosen to do those things in other color pairs (e.g., Green-White for counters and Red-White for token go-wide), then omitting otherwise playable Blue cards that care about +1/+1 counters (e.g., Cloudfin Raptor) or Green cards that make tokens (e.g., Jade Mage, Sprout Swarm, Imperious Perfect) is a reasonable design choice.
The two colors I want interacting the most with the yard in my environment are Black and Green. Does that mean no other colors can? No. For example, in White, I have Sunscourge Champion, Phyrexian Missionary, Custodi Squire, and Battle Screech as cards that in some way make use of, or are useful while in the graveyard. In Blue, I have cards like Treasure Cruise, Rise From the Tides, Striped Riverwinder, and Waker of Waves. But, for my tastes, Recommission is too close to a White Unearth for me to want to run it over other viable options that better support what White is doing in my cube. It is a totally fine card and I wouldn't begrudge anyone for playing it. It just isn't for me with my current set up.
I suppose I just haven't heard of (or thought of) excluding cards to reserve themes for other colors. The closest I can think of is how many people even in traditional cubes eschew using signets so that there's more motivation to play green. But I will at least acknowledge that your response is very thoughtful.
If we were in person, I would be really interested to have you get me to understand what you mean by "if you abstract it enough, it's arbitrary".
I have a bunch of cubes, and one of them is the... uh... "weird interaction" cube? Thran Vigil is in there. I should probably put in carrion feeder and putrid goblin to try and enable it. Thanks.
Recruitment Officer --> Venerable Knight
Zephyr Sentinel --> Faerie Seer
Obstinate Baloth --> Tireless Provisioner
Third Path Iconoclast --> Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
I know the Baloth has been a bit outclassed in recent years, even by uncommons, but I want to give it a shot. There was a time when it was even a powered cube regular and I want to see how it might perform in my environment.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Maybe Include/Still Searching for a Cut
Powerstones should be quite good in the format.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
- Adds non-creature artifacts (only affects 7 cards in my cube, most notably Sol Ring or an uncrewed Untethered Express)
- Less color restrictive (3U rather than 2UU)
- ETB rather than kicker (saves mana if it's going to be countered, and in a desperate situation, it can be reset on a later, more urgent untapped target with Teferi's Time Twist)
I'll be making this switch in my cube, as well.
Random question for everyone - Mark Rosewater some years ago wrote an article about this phenomenon, where extra text on a card adds undesired complexity and distracts from the main use of the card, giving players a false impression or leading them to reject the card even when it otherwise serves their purposes. I've tried off and on to find the article again, or at least to remember what he called the phenomenon, but I haven't had any luck. Any chance anyone remembers this?
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Woah, how big is your gold section? 5?
"My point is that how players perceive cards is very connected to how they process what's on it."
At least from our standpoint, we could give false impressions that there are synergies to be seen that aren't to be found. But from a "how good is this card" standpoint, purely at the power level of things... I'm frustrated. Dealing with humans is so hard for me.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I have plenty of soldiers in my cube (just like everyone else around here probably), just not in blue. It also depends on who you play with. I play with the same group of people so no one expects a soldier theme in blue. But I still don't believe that if you played with random people someone would first pick Zephyr Sentinel and then try to build a mono blue soldier tribal deck because of it. Especially since pretty much every Magic player who isn't completely new to the game probably knows that soldiers are a white creature type traditionally.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
Cards I may test from BRO:
Buying But Not Planning to Play / Don't Have Home For Yet:
Oh, I don't think that the average, thoughtful, invested player would either. But it'll happen every once in a while. My issues are really more about 1) it being arbitrary and 2) the strange psychological phenomenon of some people thinking a card is worse when it is given a niche bonus. The latter isn't a strike against the card's inclusion in cube, just an indictment of the species
But... why not? It's one thing to say "My blue section can't support an aggro card, so I don't run cloudfin raptor", because the card wouldn't perform. But if the card would actually play well, I don't understand why someone would have an issue with running it just because it does something against what's expected.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I'm not quite sure what answer you're looking for. It is a design choice, and like most design choices, if you abstract it enough, its arbitrary.
But, in a general sense, I want the different decks in my environment to feel different. I want them to have things that they are better and worse at than the other decks, and to play differently from one another. It is an entirely viable design choice to have White care about the yard. Just look at what it is doing in BRO. Similarly, you could choose to run lots of Blue and Green cards that care about +1/+1 counters and make that Simic's thing, or run Green and White cards that care about token generation and make Green-White the go-wide archetype. BUT, if you've chosen to do those things in other color pairs (e.g., Green-White for counters and Red-White for token go-wide), then omitting otherwise playable Blue cards that care about +1/+1 counters (e.g., Cloudfin Raptor) or Green cards that make tokens (e.g., Jade Mage, Sprout Swarm, Imperious Perfect) is a reasonable design choice.
The two colors I want interacting the most with the yard in my environment are Black and Green. Does that mean no other colors can? No. For example, in White, I have Sunscourge Champion, Phyrexian Missionary, Custodi Squire, and Battle Screech as cards that in some way make use of, or are useful while in the graveyard. In Blue, I have cards like Treasure Cruise, Rise From the Tides, Striped Riverwinder, and Waker of Waves. But, for my tastes, Recommission is too close to a White Unearth for me to want to run it over other viable options that better support what White is doing in my cube. It is a totally fine card and I wouldn't begrudge anyone for playing it. It just isn't for me with my current set up.
I hope that helps explain it.
If we were in person, I would be really interested to have you get me to understand what you mean by "if you abstract it enough, it's arbitrary".
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
That alone probably won't make me play Thran Vigil but I figured it was worth mentioning since no one else brought it up.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article