Is Amethyst Dragon actually going to be that good though? I mean, I see the appeal:
From a player's perspective, it's floor is a 2-for-1 if you cast both halves. Plus, depending on how many creatures you kill with Explosive Crystal, you can easily make this a 3- or even 4-for-1.
From a cube design perspective, it does a lot for one card. It gives controlling red decks a way to answer multiple creatures and a late-game threat. It gives GR ramp/monsters some reach and a hasty, evasive threat. And, even red aggressive decks can use this as an inefficient burn spell.
Plus, the roles this card plays are already pretty well addressed in most lists. My list is not a huge outlier, and in my cube, the red controlling decks already have access to Pyroclasm, Flames of the Firebrand, and Staggershock to keep aggro opponents in check. They also have both modes of Slice and Dice and Shower of Coals. The aggressive red decks want to get the opponent dead before turns 5 and 6, and if they really need reach, they have access to quite a few options before considering 4 damage for 5 mana. That said, ValhallaPDX is right that there aren't many red creatures worth ramping into after Charging Monstrosaur, but I've seen 6+ as Green's job in those decks if they even want them at all.
Maybe my card evaluation skills are just bad. Maybe I'm still not giving enough credit to the built-in flexibility of adventure, but there are plenty of adventures that didn't make the cut just by having adventure. So, can someone help me see what I'm missing?
I'd be tempted to replace a card like Shower of Coals or Slice and Dice with Amethyst Dragon. Pyrotechnics and Volcanic Dragon may not be popular peasant inclusions, but putting both options on the same card makes for what looks like a really solid control or midrange card for red.
Is Amethyst Dragon actually going to be that good though? I mean, I see the appeal:
From a player's perspective, it's floor is a 2-for-1 if you cast both halves. Plus, depending on how many creatures you kill with Explosive Crystal, you can easily make this a 3- or even 4-for-1.
From a cube design perspective, it does a lot for one card. It gives controlling red decks a way to answer multiple creatures and a late-game threat. It gives GR ramp/monsters some reach and a hasty, evasive threat. And, even red aggressive decks can use this as an inefficient burn spell.
Plus, the roles this card plays are already pretty well addressed in most lists. My list is not a huge outlier, and in my cube, the red controlling decks already have access to Pyroclasm, Flames of the Firebrand, and Staggershock to keep aggro opponents in check. They also have both modes of Slice and Dice and Shower of Coals. The aggressive red decks want to get the opponent dead before turns 5 and 6, and if they really need reach, they have access to quite a few options before considering 4 damage for 5 mana. That said, ValhallaPDX is right that there aren't many red creatures worth ramping into after Charging Monstrosaur, but I've seen 6+ as Green's job in those decks if they even want them at all.
Maybe my card evaluation skills are just bad. Maybe I'm still not giving enough credit to the built-in flexibility of adventure, but there are plenty of adventures that didn't make the cut just by having adventure. So, can someone help me see what I'm missing?
Y'all are usually right about the cards on here.
Dude, super good breakdown. And every point you bring up makes a lot of sense for not including it. I like to think of Amethyst Dragon as more as a Pyrotechnics with flashback. Rarely would I be excited to play this card without using its adventure side first. That being said Im going to find a place for it, because its checks too many boxes.
I think Amethyst Dragon will replace Shower of Coals for me. The upside Coals has, in my experience, is usually that it does 2 damage face instead of killing two two-toughness creatures. Yes, it has Threshold, but I feel it usually deals three times 2 damage. the dragon on the other hand has a lot more options, which makes it the more attractive card to cube with.
Crystal Dragon is too slow in my opinion, and will too often just be sitting there in hand.
Beckoning Will-o'-Wisp is also pretty interesting, I think. I'm considering cutting Accorder Paladin, because both cards can give the team a +1/+0 boost, and lately there have been more white 3/1's added to my list that I feel Accorder's time has come.
Beckoning Will-o'-Wisp is also pretty interesting, I think. I'm considering cutting Accorder Paladin, because both cards can give the team a +1/+0 boost, and lately there have been more white 3/1's added to my list that I feel Accorder's time has come.
Beckoning Will-o'-Wisp checks a lot of boxes - fits aggro and flying tribal, has evasion, has reasonable toughness, and does not need to attack to pump. Fills a similar role as Soltari Champion, without the questionable rarity.
I am not sold on Ghost Lantern. To its credit, it is fairly costed, but the artifact side requires a lot of setup to work (most likely a sacrifice outlet and 2+ creatures to sacrifice) and is very weak to creature removal.
Split the Spoils - It is too bad it only hits permanents and your opponent decides the pile. Does have an interesting interaction with Syr Konrad, the Grim and other cards that care about things going into the graveyard.
I am slightly taken by Sailors' Bane, the jumbo sized Cryptic Serpent. I like Cryptic Serpent as a pay-off card for spells matter decks while also being a reasonable control card for 5 mana without turboing spells. Sailors' Bane shifts away from being reasonable in non-dedicated spells decks to being a strong reanimation target. I feel the synergy between the Dimir-based control decks and reanimation strategies has been overlapping significantly over the last several sets, so I like Sailors' Bane there. If I was not so interested in making reanimator work right now, I would probably skip this.
[...] red is definettly begging for some quality drops at 6+. After charging Monstrosuar, its a huge drop off on curve.
That what I've trying to push in my red section for gruul decks, and any midrange deck in red. I think these are not bad options to consider. Charging Monstrosaur Frenzied Saddlebrute Pugnacious Pugilist Red Dragon, is like Volcanic Dragon without the need to attack to deal the damage when you cast it.
I will add Amethyst Dragon, too, even when I cut Pyrotechnics some sets ago, and knowing Volcanic Dragon is not awesome, but... both cards in a single card? I think that’s great for any midrange deck.
I am slightly taken by Sailors' Bane, the jumbo sized Cryptic Serpent. I like Cryptic Serpent as a pay-off card for spells matter decks while also being a reasonable control card for 5 mana without turboing spells. Sailors' Bane shifts away from being reasonable in non-dedicated spells decks to being a strong reanimation target. I feel the synergy between the Dimir-based control decks and reanimation strategies has been overlapping significantly over the last several sets, so I like Sailors' Bane there. If I was not so interested in making reanimator work right now, I would probably skip this.
Blue has some good finishers for control decks, and they are good targets for reanimator decks, as many of them selfdiscard themselves while serving as cantrips for the control deck.
I like Sailors' Bane for reanimator decks, too, specially for the ward ability, which I really appreciate to protect the creature.
But, at least in my Cube, the competition for a slot in cmc 6-7 is tough, and I think I prefer to add Sapphire Dragon, as I play with Pteramander, yet. Probably Errant Ephemeron is the card to remove.
Topaz Dragon - We've never had a 2-mana instant that gives all of our creatures deathtouch before. The fact that it can then be reanimated into a 4/4 Flying Deathtouch is solid. I like cards that have both setup and payoff for reanimator. Think this will be going in my cube.
Have we reached the critical mass for gates to start playing the payoff cards like Gate Colossus, Gates Ablaze?
There are what - 18 non-rare Gates? The original 10 are worse than most other land options. Gateway Plaza is nothing special. Gond Gate and Heap Gate are parasitic and not worth running without a high density of other Gates. The new Thriving Gates are pretty flexible and pretty much the only ones worth running. But if you do run all 18 in a smaller cube, barring running multiples, each player will get 2-4 Gates, which they may or may not have in play throughout the course of each game. I really don't see this being enough to run Gate-dependant cards. The ceiling isn't high enough to justify the very low floor of being unplayable without enough gates in play. How many Gates do you need for each of those cards to be worth running?
Thoughts on this? I feel like it is alright with the one activation it provides (and the option to use the mana is also okay) and if there are more ways to get Treasures in your cube it gets quite good really quick.
Thoughts on this? I feel like it is alright with the one activation it provides (and the option to use the mana is also okay) and if there are more ways to get Treasures in your cube it gets quite good really quick.
Liked it at first, then realized I think its poop. Too much work to make this card good.
To start, it is quite bad outside of aggressive decks. Its ability only triggers when you attack, and by itself it is a 3-mana 2/2 that makes a treasure on ETB. That compares pretty poorly to other 3-drop treasure makers like Plundering Barbarian and Jewel Thief.
In aggressive decks, its not much better. Again, a 3-mana 2/2 lines up pretty poorly compared to the other commonly cubed red 3-drops. And, unlike a lot of those cards, Swashbuckler asks you to spend time setting up the board so that you can leverage its ability effectively. You need multiple creatures AND multiple treasure tokens. By the time you've set all of that up, your opponents will probably have stabilized the board and/or found removal for Swashbuckler.
Finally, from a set design perspective, I'm not sure we have enough playable "treasure-matters" cards yet to make Swashbuckler work consistently without making lots of concessions in other areas of the environment.
I am curious about everyone's thoughts on Candlekeep Inspiration. It seems like a good finisher for Blue aggro, but there are going to be times when it is a dead card.
Assuming your average creature is a 2/2, it will take at least 5 instant/sorcery/adventure cards to match Overrun and it does not give trample.
I am curious about everyone's thoughts on Candlekeep Inspiration. It seems like a good finisher for Blue aggro, but there are going to be times when it is a dead card.
Assuming your average creature is a 2/2, it will take at least 5 instant/sorcery/adventure cards to match Overrun and it does not give trample.
Technically it only takes 4 not 5 cards, since your creatures are more than likely going to have atleast 1 power. I like this card and think its almost an auto include.
I am curious about everyone's thoughts on Candlekeep Inspiration. It seems like a good finisher for Blue aggro, but there are going to be times when it is a dead card.
Assuming your average creature is a 2/2, it will take at least 5 instant/sorcery/adventure cards to match Overrun and it does not give trample.
Technically it only takes 4 not 5 cards, since your creatures are more than likely going to have atleast 1 power. I like this card and think its almost an auto include.
I'm surprised no one is talking about Bloodboil Sorcerer and Undercellar Sweep. Initiative looks amazing in aggro decks, the trap room is a beating. Sweep's tokens can trigger more tokens the next turn and Sorcerer fits red's plan quite nicely.
Wild Magic Surge is an interesting card since it hits any permanent. Real high-risk, but lets red interact with enchantments, creatures with large toughness (that are outside of burn range), and lands (color denial). Seems fun.
Technically it only takes 4 not 5 cards, since your creatures are more than likely going to have atleast 1 power. I like this card and think its almost an auto include.
Sort of. As richard09 mentioned, it changes base power, so there are diminishing returns if the base power of the creature is already high, whereas Overrun is a flat boost. I do not disagree that it is worth testing - spellslinger decks will be happy with this card especially if you can pump tokens from Murmuring Mystic and Young Pyromancer.
I'm surprised no one is talking about Bloodboil Sorcerer and Undercellar Sweep. Initiative looks amazing in aggro decks, the trap room is a beating. Sweep's tokens can trigger more tokens the next turn and Sorcerer fits red's plan quite nicely.
I have mixed feelings about initiative. Forge -> Trap -> Archives is quite strong and, unlike Monarch, I like that taking the initiative results in an immediate effect. However, it feels needlessly complex - the mechanic requires a literal flow chart to understand. For that reason, I am inclined to leave it out of the cube.
I'm surprised no one is talking about Bloodboil Sorcerer and Undercellar Sweep. Initiative looks amazing in aggro decks, the trap room is a beating. Sweep's tokens can trigger more tokens the next turn and Sorcerer fits red's plan quite nicely.
I love the power level of both the Monarchy and the Initiative for Peasant. I realized a while ago that I was judging those cards as people judge Planeswalkers: How well does this protect itself the turn you play it?
The three most popular Monarch cards definitely fit this criteria- Feast of Succession, Palace Jailer and Fall from Favor. And behind those in popularity are the more generic Monarch creatures.
With that said, none of the currently spoiled Initiative cards do an amazing job in this category. I like Passageway Seer as a good value card, but it is a fragile creature right away. I do not particularly care for Bloodboil Sorcerer's ability, as it looks pretty dependant on your opponent's board for its value. Undercellar Sweep is so weird, since it basically does nothing to defend itself the turn you play it, but promises an extra two 1/1 attackers every turn for the rest of the game. I suppose even if your opponent takes the Initative, you can easily take it right back.
Full list is up. A couple of cards that stand out:
Blessed Hippogriff: Both sides are reasonable. On par with Ardenvale Tactician. Arms of Hadar: One-sided wraths are pretty rare for peasant. I wish it was one mana less. Overwhelming Encounter: Improved Overcome. Possibly worth considering if you think Overrun is too strong or you really are digging deep for sources of +1/+1 counters. d20 roll is not for me. Druidic Ritual: I think this is pretty strong for G/X mill/graveyard - 2 cards for 3 mana is a good rate. The mill is also optional. Nefarious Imp: Warteye Witch with evasion.
Kind of surprising that they just stapled Pyrotechnics to Volcanic Dragon without adding mana cost.
Crystal Dragon is not as good, but seems playable as well. Sort of Argivian Find stapled to Serra Angel with a 1 mana tax on both.
Greatsword of Tyr is a good aggro / +1/+1 counter equipment. Tapping down a creature can be stronger than it looks.
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Its going to be great, red is definettly begging for some quality drops at 6+. After charging Monstrosuar, its a huge drop off on curve.
Crystal Dragon is great too.
But, it doesn't do any of these things particularly well. Not many of us are playing Pyrotechnics or Volcanic Dragon. In fact, According to the MTGS Average Peasant 2021 Google Doc, only two people were running Pyrotechnics and only one person was running Volcanic Dragon (and they're no longer running it).
Plus, the roles this card plays are already pretty well addressed in most lists. My list is not a huge outlier, and in my cube, the red controlling decks already have access to Pyroclasm, Flames of the Firebrand, and Staggershock to keep aggro opponents in check. They also have both modes of Slice and Dice and Shower of Coals. The aggressive red decks want to get the opponent dead before turns 5 and 6, and if they really need reach, they have access to quite a few options before considering 4 damage for 5 mana. That said, ValhallaPDX is right that there aren't many red creatures worth ramping into after Charging Monstrosaur, but I've seen 6+ as Green's job in those decks if they even want them at all.
Maybe my card evaluation skills are just bad. Maybe I'm still not giving enough credit to the built-in flexibility of adventure, but there are plenty of adventures that didn't make the cut just by having adventure. So, can someone help me see what I'm missing?
Y'all are usually right about the cards on here.
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Dude, super good breakdown. And every point you bring up makes a lot of sense for not including it. I like to think of Amethyst Dragon as more as a Pyrotechnics with flashback. Rarely would I be excited to play this card without using its adventure side first. That being said Im going to find a place for it, because its checks too many boxes.
Crystal Dragon is too slow in my opinion, and will too often just be sitting there in hand.
Beckoning Will-o'-Wisp is also pretty interesting, I think. I'm considering cutting Accorder Paladin, because both cards can give the team a +1/+0 boost, and lately there have been more white 3/1's added to my list that I feel Accorder's time has come.
Ghost Lantern also caught my eye. Order of Midnight is one of my cubers' favourite cards, so does this also cut it?
Pegasus Guardian and Guardian Naga may be too slow, but they are here. Thoughts?
WiJ
Peasant 540 Cube
Beckoning Will-o'-Wisp checks a lot of boxes - fits aggro and flying tribal, has evasion, has reasonable toughness, and does not need to attack to pump. Fills a similar role as Soltari Champion, without the questionable rarity.
I am not sold on Ghost Lantern. To its credit, it is fairly costed, but the artifact side requires a lot of setup to work (most likely a sacrifice outlet and 2+ creatures to sacrifice) and is very weak to creature removal.
I could see running Pegasus Guardian over Otherworldly Journey, but the creature side of Pegasus Guardian is not especially exciting. At 7 mana, Guardian Naga is really underpowered.
Rescuing Chwinga - A different take on Whitemane Lion. It cannot bounce itself, but it can bounce any permanent and the bounce is optional. I could see this being competition for Shepherd of the Flock.
Split the Spoils - It is too bad it only hits permanents and your opponent decides the pile. Does have an interesting interaction with Syr Konrad, the Grim and other cards that care about things going into the graveyard.
Edit:
Hammers of Moradin is just a straight-up better Territorial Hammerskull.
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That what I've trying to push in my red section for gruul decks, and any midrange deck in red. I think these are not bad options to consider.
Charging Monstrosaur
Frenzied Saddlebrute
Pugnacious Pugilist
Red Dragon, is like Volcanic Dragon without the need to attack to deal the damage when you cast it.
And even Rite of the Raging Storm.
I will add Amethyst Dragon, too, even when I cut Pyrotechnics some sets ago, and knowing Volcanic Dragon is not awesome, but... both cards in a single card? I think that’s great for any midrange deck.
Blue has some good finishers for control decks, and they are good targets for reanimator decks, as many of them selfdiscard themselves while serving as cantrips for the control deck.
Jetting Glasskite
Mirrorshell Crab
Striped Riverwinder
Waker of Waves
I like Sailors' Bane for reanimator decks, too, specially for the ward ability, which I really appreciate to protect the creature.
But, at least in my Cube, the competition for a slot in cmc 6-7 is tough, and I think I prefer to add Sapphire Dragon, as I play with Pteramander, yet. Probably Errant Ephemeron is the card to remove.
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Liked it at first, then realized I think its poop. Too much work to make this card good.
To start, it is quite bad outside of aggressive decks. Its ability only triggers when you attack, and by itself it is a 3-mana 2/2 that makes a treasure on ETB. That compares pretty poorly to other 3-drop treasure makers like Plundering Barbarian and Jewel Thief.
In aggressive decks, its not much better. Again, a 3-mana 2/2 lines up pretty poorly compared to the other commonly cubed red 3-drops. And, unlike a lot of those cards, Swashbuckler asks you to spend time setting up the board so that you can leverage its ability effectively. You need multiple creatures AND multiple treasure tokens. By the time you've set all of that up, your opponents will probably have stabilized the board and/or found removal for Swashbuckler.
Finally, from a set design perspective, I'm not sure we have enough playable "treasure-matters" cards yet to make Swashbuckler work consistently without making lots of concessions in other areas of the environment.
Assuming your average creature is a 2/2, it will take at least 5 instant/sorcery/adventure cards to match Overrun and it does not give trample.
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Technically it only takes 4 not 5 cards, since your creatures are more than likely going to have atleast 1 power. I like this card and think its almost an auto include.
Candlekeep Inspiration changes the base power and toughness, not grant +x/+x
I'm surprised no one is talking about Bloodboil Sorcerer and Undercellar Sweep. Initiative looks amazing in aggro decks, the trap room is a beating. Sweep's tokens can trigger more tokens the next turn and Sorcerer fits red's plan quite nicely.
Sort of. As richard09 mentioned, it changes base power, so there are diminishing returns if the base power of the creature is already high, whereas Overrun is a flat boost. I do not disagree that it is worth testing - spellslinger decks will be happy with this card especially if you can pump tokens from Murmuring Mystic and Young Pyromancer.
I have mixed feelings about initiative. Forge -> Trap -> Archives is quite strong and, unlike Monarch, I like that taking the initiative results in an immediate effect. However, it feels needlessly complex - the mechanic requires a literal flow chart to understand. For that reason, I am inclined to leave it out of the cube.
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I love the power level of both the Monarchy and the Initiative for Peasant. I realized a while ago that I was judging those cards as people judge Planeswalkers: How well does this protect itself the turn you play it?
The three most popular Monarch cards definitely fit this criteria- Feast of Succession, Palace Jailer and Fall from Favor. And behind those in popularity are the more generic Monarch creatures.
With that said, none of the currently spoiled Initiative cards do an amazing job in this category. I like Passageway Seer as a good value card, but it is a fragile creature right away. I do not particularly care for Bloodboil Sorcerer's ability, as it looks pretty dependant on your opponent's board for its value. Undercellar Sweep is so weird, since it basically does nothing to defend itself the turn you play it, but promises an extra two 1/1 attackers every turn for the rest of the game. I suppose even if your opponent takes the Initative, you can easily take it right back.
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-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Blessed Hippogriff: Both sides are reasonable. On par with Ardenvale Tactician.
Arms of Hadar: One-sided wraths are pretty rare for peasant. I wish it was one mana less.
Overwhelming Encounter: Improved Overcome. Possibly worth considering if you think Overrun is too strong or you really are digging deep for sources of +1/+1 counters. d20 roll is not for me.
Druidic Ritual: I think this is pretty strong for G/X mill/graveyard - 2 cards for 3 mana is a good rate. The mill is also optional.
Nefarious Imp: Warteye Witch with evasion.
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