A card like Syr Conrad the Grim (besides the overly fantasy-ized spelling of Sir) makes me sorta mad.
As someone who now finally owns a fully fan-made-card cube, I look at the laborious wording of Conrad and feel jealous.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, would tolerate this effect from me. And the annoying way that we need to say "card" when referring to cards not on the battlefield has made the wording of this effect unnecessarily verbose.
/rant
sorry, I'm still salty about the number of designs I've had to scrap with similar intentions.
A card like Syr Conrad the Grim (besides the overly fantasy-ized spelling of Sir) makes me sorta mad.
As someone who now finally owns a fully fan-made-card cube, I look at the laborious wording of Conrad and feel jealous.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, would tolerate this effect from me. And the annoying way that we need to say "card" when referring to cards not on the battlefield has made the wording of this effect unnecessarily verbose.
/rant
sorry, I'm still salty about the number of designs I've had to scrap with similar intentions.
Ha! Yeah, if I tried to do this kind of thing on Club Flamingo, I'd never get anywhere.
I think Faerie Guidemother would be okay if Gift of the Fae were an instant. As is, I think you're better off with Healer's Hawk.
I think Faerie Guidemother compares badly to the blue Flying Men variants (Siren Stormtamer, Pteramander, Faerie Seer or Spectral Sailor) as they give you both the flyer on turn one and the upside while Guidemother either gives you the upside and a 1/1 flyer you hardly need anymore or the Flying Men on turn one. White is the best color for aggro one drops, so I don't feel the need to run this.
Return from Clouds (translated name of the card) will probably replace Restock in my cube. One mana cheaper and instant speed for the same effect if you use three green mana to cast it. And not terrible without three green mana when you really need it. My green decks usually have a lot more green mana than other mana, especially by the time I can cast 4-5 mana spells. So three green mana should happen regularly.
A card like Syr Conrad the Grim (besides the overly fantasy-ized spelling of Sir) makes me sorta mad.
As someone who now finally owns a fully fan-made-card cube, I look at the laborious wording of Conrad and feel jealous.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, would tolerate this effect from me. And the annoying way that we need to say "card" when referring to cards not on the battlefield has made the wording of this effect unnecessarily verbose.
/rant
sorry, I'm still salty about the number of designs I've had to scrap with similar intentions.
Please propose a funtionally equivalent wording of these abilities that would work within the rules of the game.
A card like Syr Conrad the Grim (besides the overly fantasy-ized spelling of Sir) makes me sorta mad.
As someone who now finally owns a fully fan-made-card cube, I look at the laborious wording of Conrad and feel jealous.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, would tolerate this effect from me. And the annoying way that we need to say "card" when referring to cards not on the battlefield has made the wording of this effect unnecessarily verbose.
/rant
sorry, I'm still salty about the number of designs I've had to scrap with similar intentions.
Please propose a funtionally equivalent wording of these abilities that would work within the rules of the game.
They massage the rules all the time for mostly frivolous reasons. Then on a godawful clunker like this they insist There Is No Alternative.
They massage the rules all the time for mostly frivolous reasons. Then on a godawful clunker like this they insist There Is No Alternative.
You got any examples of that? This game is complex. There are rules in place that dictate what we call certain things when they are in certain places. Tokens aren't called 'cards', so if we want this to trigger for tokens dieing, we can't just use 'whenever a creature card is put into the graveyard from anywhere'.
Target opponent reveals their hand. You choose a nonland card in that player's hand or graveyard, and exile it. For as long as that card remains exiled, you may cast it, and you may spend mana as though it were any type to cast it.
Not sure how good it is. I suppose the graveyard-clause gives you somewhat of a safety-net so you can find a spot to fire it off where it won't be entirely wasted.
Probably good in the same games/metas/cubes/situations where Mind Rot is good?
Target opponent reveals their hand. You choose a nonland card in that player's hand or graveyard, and exile it. For as long as that card remains exiled, you may cast it, and you may spend mana as though it were any type to cast it.
Not sure how good it is. I suppose the graveyard-clause gives you somewhat of a safety-net so you can find a spot to fire it off where it won't be entirely wasted.
Probably good in the same games/metas/cubes/situations where Mind Rot is good?
If I didn't have to use a guild slot on it I would like it. As is I don't think it's good enough thought.
I also think Covetus Urge isn't that great. I can imagine that a lot of times it's nothing but an expensive and weird Regrowth. Interesting effect though.
Hypnotic Sprite is a good one, reasonable counterspell with a decent body tacked on it. After Order of Midnight another good reason to add adventure cards (unfortunately...kind of).
@optboy
is there some reason why the rules couldn't function if Konrad said "whenever a creature is put into or leaves your graveyard"?
Put another way, is the only reason why we need to say "card" to refer to cards off the battlefield because the rules happen to say so? Or is there a good reason behind why this awkward wording is needed?
We already have "dies" to specify a creature in play, so it can't be to make sure we have a way differentiate between the two when we need to. And we could still invoke "card" when we want to exclude tokens.
Wow, Syr Karah, the Bold is great. A bit fragile for 5 cmc, but the effect is really powerful. In a spells deck she can theoretically draw several cards per turn. Wish she had haste, but I will still add her. Can't wait to see the white, green and blue 'Syrs'.
Hypnotic Sprite is awkward. Double UU on an aggressive body is awkward. Having to play the more expensive half first is awkward. The counterspell not being worthwhile at all early on the draw as it doesn't hit 4 drops is awkward. Then even if it works out you're only getting a 2/1 flyer, which doesn't really make up for it.
Syr Karah, the Bold is really slow. I wouldn't play a 5 cost 3/3 with T: draw a card at sorcery speed, and this is has pretty minor utility to make up for impulse drawing. Optimistically you can chain burn spells together, but spending mana to impulse draw and not affect the board is not great, especially when you just spent 5 mana on a 3/3.
Claim the Firstborn is so mana efficient it's worth a test. Hard to say without testing, but I have a hard time imagining it's not great in the hard aggro decks. Also makes combining it with a sac effect much easier: Claim + Plaguecrafter is a pretty easy 3 for 2 that can be done as early as t4. 5 is also quite a bit easier to get to for Barter in Blood than 6-7 for Wrangle/Act of Treason, same with 6 for Rakshasa Gravecaller.
I think Hypnotic Sprite is the bee's knees. Versatility is the name of the game.
I'm less sure on Syr Karah, the Bold. The stats are pretty lousy, and I'm not so sure you'll actually be getting card advantage enough to justify it. Very often, you'll need her to shoot creatures, and you won't have time for the upside. In such a case, you are way way better off with a cheaper pinger such as Fireslinger. Five mana (and then summoning sickness) is late to be setting up an engine like that. That said, there will be times when her ping draws you burns which draw you further. The cieling looks fun, but the floor looks bad. Remember how slow Anaba Shaman feels?
After thinking a bit more about it what I dislike about Karah is that spells matter is mostly Izzet, which means you'll have quite a lot of counterspells in the deck. If it wasn't for that she would basically read T:kill target 1 toughness creature or draw a card and deal 1 damage to your opponent. Combined with a body that is at least not useless (like the body of pretty much any other playable pinger) and the additional upside of occassionally turning burn spells into cantrips that would have been great, but exiling a counterspell you would need but can't use only to draw a land next turn would be a bummer.
Also agree that Claim the Firstborn is a very decent card, I will probably finally replace the original Threaten to play this instead. Certainly not strictly better, but great for sacrifice decks and a bit like a good one drop you can't play on turn 1.
@optboy
is there some reason why the rules couldn't function if Konrad said "whenever a creature is put into or leaves your graveyard"?
Put another way, is the only reason why we need to say "card" to refer to cards off the battlefield because the rules happen to say so? Or is there a good reason behind why this awkward wording is needed?
We already have "dies" to specify a creature in play, so it can't be to make sure we have a way differentiate between the two when we need to. And we could still invoke "card" when we want to exclude tokens.
My two cents:
Magic is a very complex game, so additional clarity is appreciated, even if it adds more words. They certainly could have cut down on the number of things that trigger Konrad, but that would have reduced functionality. With the current wording, here's a list of everything that triggers him:
- A token you control dies
- A token an opponent controls dies
- A non-token you control other than Syr Konrad dies
- A non-token an opponent controls dies
- A creature card enters your graveyard from discard, mill, being countered on the stack, being processed, etc.
- A creature card enters an opponent's graveyard from discard, mill, being countered on the stack, being processed, etc.
- A creature card leaves your graveyard through reanimation, exile, return to hand, shuffling into the library, or being cast
Note that the last one is not symmetrical; had it been a symmetrical trigger, it could have reduced wording by a fair amount at the cost of super-weaponizing Bojuka Bog.
A "creature" only exists on the battlefield; a "creature card" exists in any other zone. You ask "is the only reason why we need to say 'card' to refer to cards off the battlefield because the rules happen to say so? Or is there a good reason behind why this awkward wording is needed" Well, yes. Because if you shorthand this one card to make it less wordy, you open up a ton of ambiguity and confusion. If I can shorthand to just "creature" instead of "creature card" in other zones, does that mean "exile target creature" can hit a card in hand or in a graveyard? We already have enough people confused about whether tokens go to the graveyard - should we add more confusion about what something can legally target? Precision seems like a really good reason to stick with the rules. One card isn't worth messing up a bunch of others.
Could it be worded differently? Probably.
You suggested "whenever a creature is put into or leaves your graveyard," but this changes the functionality in several ways. In addition to the confusion regarding creatures vs. creature cards, it also loses the ability to trigger on any of your opponents' creatures/creature cards (3/7 of its current triggers) and it adds the trigger to Syr Konrad's own death.
They could have combined it into "Whenever another creature or creature card is put into a graveyard from anywhere, or a creature card leaves your graveyard..." That saves six words, but now it adds confusion about why it specifies creature or creature card. If you try "Whenever a token or creature card is put into a graveyard from anywhere," you take away that confusion, but (again) now he triggers on his own death. And both of these skip common terminology ("dies") that has been established for exactly the reason of shortening rules text in a clear and concise manner (which, in turn, could add confusion about whether or not his trigger interacts with Teysa Karlov).
If they wanted it absolutely the shortest, they could have gone with "Whenever a creature card enters or leaves a graveyard,...", but that loses 2/7 of its current functionality (tokens) while adding one additional trigger (cards leaving your opponent's graveyard).
Is it wordy? Yes. But it's very precise. And precision reduces confusion.
In my opinion, they worded it correctly for what it does. They could have reduced his functionality in order to save words, but it wouldn't have been as interesting a card then.
venerable knight is another good 2/1 for 1, but i only run 4 other knights atm so i feel like it's generally gunna be vanilla. obviously this set could change that number though.
hypnotic sprite seems good and flexible. it's an expensive counterspell, but this card seems like it plays very differently on the draw vs on the play, so the choice is very useful imo. and an evasive body is obviously welcome.
i really like covetous urge, but i'm a sucker for unique uncommon effects. quad hybrid isn't too terrible since it's basically just a flexible gold card, and the effect is definitely powerful, especially if you nab a card from their hand.
so far i dig this set, even if not for cube, just general play looks like it'll be great.
There's nothing precise or interesting about "another creature (not Konrad himself), any creature card entering a graveyard, any creature card leaving JUST YOUR graveyard"
It works mechanically once you double-check it every time you play it, which makes it pretty horrendous
@optboy
is there some reason why the rules couldn't function if Konrad said "whenever a creature is put into or leaves your graveyard"?
Put another way, is the only reason why we need to say "card" to refer to cards off the battlefield because the rules happen to say so? Or is there a good reason behind why this awkward wording is needed?
We already have "dies" to specify a creature in play, so it can't be to make sure we have a way differentiate between the two when we need to. And we could still invoke "card" when we want to exclude tokens.
Ok, FunkyDragon absolutely nailed it in their explanation. I have nothing to add.
Gingerbrute as a Raging Goblin isn't really worthwhile, but having the two other abilities could put it over the top. The evasion can make it a pretty solid target for a Trusty Machete. I bet you end up eating this for life more often than you would think as well.
Tin Street Dodger certainly isn't worth much, but colorless adds quite a bit of value. I've got this pegged as "totally playable, but not something that will last in most cubes where slots are competitive." There are quite a few cards in that category, but being able to go in any deck helps.
Our blue uncommon legendary Knight seems pretty underwhelming:
Syr Elenora the Clairvoyant3UU
Legendary Creature- Human Knight
Syr Elenora the Clairvoyant's power is equal to the number of cards in your hand.
When Syr Elenora enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Spells your opponents control that target Syr Elenora cost 2 more to cast.
*4
I love to cantrip, but cards like this don't tend to keep their power at a worthwhile level for long. If this were just a 4/4, I'd probably play it.
It's a lot like how Evolving Wilds is worse* than a Guildgate in an exactly-two-colors deck, but it gets to do that slightly worse job for ANY deck. Colorless Tin Street Dodger is just fine.
* yes, Delve spells and Brainstorm exist, but you get the idea
As someone who now finally owns a fully fan-made-card cube, I look at the laborious wording of Conrad and feel jealous.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, would tolerate this effect from me. And the annoying way that we need to say "card" when referring to cards not on the battlefield has made the wording of this effect unnecessarily verbose.
/rant
sorry, I'm still salty about the number of designs I've had to scrap with similar intentions.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Ha! Yeah, if I tried to do this kind of thing on Club Flamingo, I'd never get anywhere.
I think Faerie Guidemother would be okay if Gift of the Fae were an instant. As is, I think you're better off with Healer's Hawk.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
Return from Clouds (translated name of the card) will probably replace Restock in my cube. One mana cheaper and instant speed for the same effect if you use three green mana to cast it. And not terrible without three green mana when you really need it. My green decks usually have a lot more green mana than other mana, especially by the time I can cast 4-5 mana spells. So three green mana should happen regularly.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
Instant speed on Return from Clouds is significant.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Enchanted Carriage is actually kind of good its similar to cloudgoat ranger and a vehicle that crews itself a good way to upgrade your dinky tokens.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Please propose a funtionally equivalent wording of these abilities that would work within the rules of the game.
They massage the rules all the time for mostly frivolous reasons. Then on a godawful clunker like this they insist There Is No Alternative.
You got any examples of that? This game is complex. There are rules in place that dictate what we call certain things when they are in certain places. Tokens aren't called 'cards', so if we want this to trigger for tokens dieing, we can't just use 'whenever a creature card is put into the graveyard from anywhere'.
Not sure how good it is. I suppose the graveyard-clause gives you somewhat of a safety-net so you can find a spot to fire it off where it won't be entirely wasted.
Probably good in the same games/metas/cubes/situations where Mind Rot is good?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
If I didn't have to use a guild slot on it I would like it. As is I don't think it's good enough thought.
Hypnotic Sprite is a good one, reasonable counterspell with a decent body tacked on it. After Order of Midnight another good reason to add adventure cards (unfortunately...kind of).
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
is there some reason why the rules couldn't function if Konrad said "whenever a creature is put into or leaves your graveyard"?
Put another way, is the only reason why we need to say "card" to refer to cards off the battlefield because the rules happen to say so? Or is there a good reason behind why this awkward wording is needed?
We already have "dies" to specify a creature in play, so it can't be to make sure we have a way differentiate between the two when we need to. And we could still invoke "card" when we want to exclude tokens.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
Syr Karah, the Bold is really slow. I wouldn't play a 5 cost 3/3 with T: draw a card at sorcery speed, and this is has pretty minor utility to make up for impulse drawing. Optimistically you can chain burn spells together, but spending mana to impulse draw and not affect the board is not great, especially when you just spent 5 mana on a 3/3.
Claim the Firstborn is so mana efficient it's worth a test. Hard to say without testing, but I have a hard time imagining it's not great in the hard aggro decks. Also makes combining it with a sac effect much easier: Claim + Plaguecrafter is a pretty easy 3 for 2 that can be done as early as t4. 5 is also quite a bit easier to get to for Barter in Blood than 6-7 for Wrangle/Act of Treason, same with 6 for Rakshasa Gravecaller.
I'm less sure on Syr Karah, the Bold. The stats are pretty lousy, and I'm not so sure you'll actually be getting card advantage enough to justify it. Very often, you'll need her to shoot creatures, and you won't have time for the upside. In such a case, you are way way better off with a cheaper pinger such as Fireslinger. Five mana (and then summoning sickness) is late to be setting up an engine like that. That said, there will be times when her ping draws you burns which draw you further. The cieling looks fun, but the floor looks bad. Remember how slow Anaba Shaman feels?
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
Also agree that Claim the Firstborn is a very decent card, I will probably finally replace the original Threaten to play this instead. Certainly not strictly better, but great for sacrifice decks and a bit like a good one drop you can't play on turn 1.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
Magic is a very complex game, so additional clarity is appreciated, even if it adds more words. They certainly could have cut down on the number of things that trigger Konrad, but that would have reduced functionality. With the current wording, here's a list of everything that triggers him:
- A token you control dies
- A token an opponent controls dies
- A non-token you control other than Syr Konrad dies
- A non-token an opponent controls dies
- A creature card enters your graveyard from discard, mill, being countered on the stack, being processed, etc.
- A creature card enters an opponent's graveyard from discard, mill, being countered on the stack, being processed, etc.
- A creature card leaves your graveyard through reanimation, exile, return to hand, shuffling into the library, or being cast
Note that the last one is not symmetrical; had it been a symmetrical trigger, it could have reduced wording by a fair amount at the cost of super-weaponizing Bojuka Bog.
A "creature" only exists on the battlefield; a "creature card" exists in any other zone. You ask "is the only reason why we need to say 'card' to refer to cards off the battlefield because the rules happen to say so? Or is there a good reason behind why this awkward wording is needed" Well, yes. Because if you shorthand this one card to make it less wordy, you open up a ton of ambiguity and confusion. If I can shorthand to just "creature" instead of "creature card" in other zones, does that mean "exile target creature" can hit a card in hand or in a graveyard? We already have enough people confused about whether tokens go to the graveyard - should we add more confusion about what something can legally target? Precision seems like a really good reason to stick with the rules. One card isn't worth messing up a bunch of others.
Could it be worded differently? Probably.
You suggested "whenever a creature is put into or leaves your graveyard," but this changes the functionality in several ways. In addition to the confusion regarding creatures vs. creature cards, it also loses the ability to trigger on any of your opponents' creatures/creature cards (3/7 of its current triggers) and it adds the trigger to Syr Konrad's own death.
They could have combined it into "Whenever another creature or creature card is put into a graveyard from anywhere, or a creature card leaves your graveyard..." That saves six words, but now it adds confusion about why it specifies creature or creature card. If you try "Whenever a token or creature card is put into a graveyard from anywhere," you take away that confusion, but (again) now he triggers on his own death. And both of these skip common terminology ("dies") that has been established for exactly the reason of shortening rules text in a clear and concise manner (which, in turn, could add confusion about whether or not his trigger interacts with Teysa Karlov).
If they wanted it absolutely the shortest, they could have gone with "Whenever a creature card enters or leaves a graveyard,...", but that loses 2/7 of its current functionality (tokens) while adding one additional trigger (cards leaving your opponent's graveyard).
Is it wordy? Yes. But it's very precise. And precision reduces confusion.
In my opinion, they worded it correctly for what it does. They could have reduced his functionality in order to save words, but it wouldn't have been as interesting a card then.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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hypnotic sprite seems good and flexible. it's an expensive counterspell, but this card seems like it plays very differently on the draw vs on the play, so the choice is very useful imo. and an evasive body is obviously welcome.
enchanted carriage compares pretty poorly to renegade freighter and untethered express imo but it's not terrible.
i really like covetous urge, but i'm a sucker for unique uncommon effects. quad hybrid isn't too terrible since it's basically just a flexible gold card, and the effect is definitely powerful, especially if you nab a card from their hand.
so far i dig this set, even if not for cube, just general play looks like it'll be great.
It works mechanically once you double-check it every time you play it, which makes it pretty horrendous
Ok, FunkyDragon absolutely nailed it in their explanation. I have nothing to add.
Slightly mad about them making a 1/1 "Brute" but whatever
Tin Street Dodger certainly isn't worth much, but colorless adds quite a bit of value. I've got this pegged as "totally playable, but not something that will last in most cubes where slots are competitive." There are quite a few cards in that category, but being able to go in any deck helps.
Our blue uncommon legendary Knight seems pretty underwhelming:
Syr Elenora the Clairvoyant 3UU
Legendary Creature- Human Knight
Syr Elenora the Clairvoyant's power is equal to the number of cards in your hand.
When Syr Elenora enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Spells your opponents control that target Syr Elenora cost 2 more to cast.
*4
I love to cantrip, but cards like this don't tend to keep their power at a worthwhile level for long. If this were just a 4/4, I'd probably play it.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
* yes, Delve spells and Brainstorm exist, but you get the idea