I'm thinking of house ruling it (any basic produced mana?) cause I wasn't thinking about getting snow lands en masse.
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I wish all archetypes could be equally hated. Or loved, but the former better reflects the mindset of the vocal portion of the player base. My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
So excited about Valiant Changeling! It should be great in my tribal peasant cube.
I absolutely love the references in this set. Goblin Oriflamme (misprinted Alpha Orcish Oriflamme cost 1R). Segovian Angel (Segovia is a 'small' plane: Segovian Leviathan. Also the planeswalkers mentioned in the flavor text are from the original rules book, I think). Set's a flavor homerun afaic.
Valiant changeling is worth testing. It's... irritatingly variant from cube to cube however so I wouldn't be surprised if the cube that runs more kor or kithkin or sheep to get more mileage out of it than the others.
Also, yeah, this set has that Timespiral block feel. Which I love. Splice? Changeling? Yay.
Not if you just run all snows, which im contemplating.
In that case, why bother at all with snow lands? Might as well house rule the cards to say "any land". Not that that's any less awkward, but if you want to make the snow part of the card meaningless, you have easier ways to do it than spend a lot of money on snow lands, including just altering the card to say 1.
Valiant Changeling seems super sweet! Shouldn't be too hard getting out t3 or t4.
What do People feel about Throes of Chaos? Might be a decent flood protector? Late game for red, use with grixis control, as well as potentially giving you two triggers off of spellslingers.
Not really a fan of Throes of Chaos, even in spellslinger. Too random and uncontrolled. I picture paying four mana and discarding a card to hit my worst one-drop; can't get anything bigger than cmc 3, so if it's late game and I'm trying to sink mana to find a finisher, it's likely to miss. I just wish it did something on its own rather than just cascade. It's the same cmc as Bloodbraid Elf, except you trade the 3/2 haste-y body for retrace.
Anyone considering Vesperlark? It's a mini-Reveillark, and I want to like it, but it probably isn't good enough. It supports blink and flyers and even returns 80-90 creatures in my cube, but I think it's too slow.
I am very much on the edge on Throes of Chaos. It is unpredictable and you never get stuff worth the mana investment. However, I love Retrace, and this thing is indeed a way to support spellslinger archetypes (and Worm Harvest, for all it's worth). Hoping to see more Retrace in the set, given how Gruul has a theme of caring about the number of land cards in the GY. Ore-Scale Guardian is in a similar position: I have a ton of discard stuff already, so enabling it should not be that hard. At three lands in the GY, you have a pretty sweet deal already, and anything beyond that starts becoming *really* good. It depends on the cuts, though, and each is leaning towards a 'no'.
Even if you get the worst 1 drop, it'd be like "draw a card" or better.
Im interested just because of how much I love the design. It's interesting how costing any mana cost from 2 to 5 doesnt necessarily make the card better or worse. I think 4 is the best choice.
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As for vesperlark, even if it gets back 80 creatures, how many of those that you want on turn 4 or 5? Returning llanowar elves may be like returning a token. Returning mother of runes is sweet.
One of the potential issues with Throes of Chaos - which I had not quite put together - is how the main archetype it supports at a glance, spellslingers, tends to use a good number of counterspells on which it will completely blank. Then again, if it can be good enough in a creature heavy deck, for instance, where pretty much every card is a hit, I suppose I agree with Leelue. That misleading initial impression is sure to lead some drafters astray.
I like the snow cards, but I don't think the ones revealed add enough interesting gameplay to justify making basics into snow-lands.
3 mana 2/1 flyer on Vesperlark is just a bad statline. Hard to imagine wanting it in aggro due to that, and most other decks won't have enough ones to support it. Might be a decent aristocrats card, but outside of that its applications seem limited.
Throes of Chaos just compares poorly to both card advantage spells and late game finishers, even ignoring it's awkwardness. Losing at least 1 mana on each cast makes it really hard for it to be worth it.
Answered Prayers is interesting to me. It doesn't block, but the lifegain helps counteract that. Its condition is annoying, but a evasive 3/3 that dodges sorcery speed removal with upside is pretty appealing.
Answered Prayers is interesting to me. It doesn't block, but the lifegain helps counteract that. Its condition is annoying, but a evasive 3/3 that dodges sorcery speed removal with upside is pretty appealing.
3 mana 2/1 flyer on Vesperlark is just a bad statline. Hard to imagine wanting it in aggro due to that, and most other decks won't have enough ones to support it. Might be a decent aristocrats card, but outside of that its applications seem limited.
Yeah, I agree. I wanted it to be good, but that's probably nostalgia for Reveillark in other formats.
Answered Prayers is interesting to me. It doesn't block, but the lifegain helps counteract that. Its condition is annoying, but a evasive 3/3 that dodges sorcery speed removal with upside is pretty appealing.
Another card I wanted to be good, but I don't think it is. If you drop it on curve, it does nothing for a turn. Even if you drop it and a creature on the same turn, you just gain one life and have an angel that can't attack that turn. How long does the game have to go to get full value out of it? Two triggers? Three? The life is almost negligible unless you're cranking out tokens. The 3/3 flyer is pretty good unless you run out of creatures (bad topdeck mode).
Had a thought... Is it worth having a copy of snow basics in the cube pool, and if you pick it you can use snow basics instead of that basic? It is definitely a commitment to a snow theme though, and I would need to dig into how many payoffs there actually is for that to not be a terrible idea.
Angel's Tomb isn't good enough; it has too many problems for the upside. Answered Prayers deals with one of the issues Angel's Tomb has (not blocking) decently. Gaining 4-5 life seems pretty reasonable if it's dropped early on, which is a big upside to Tomb. Even later on a single token maker can get you to a reasonable amount of life gain. The lifegain is also pretty relevant considering it incentivizes races from both sides.
Another card I wanted to be good, but I don't think it is. If you drop it on curve, it does nothing for a turn. Even if you drop it and a creature on the same turn, you just gain one life and have an angel that can't attack that turn. How long does the game have to go to get full value out of it? Two triggers? Three? The life is almost negligible unless you're cranking out tokens. The 3/3 flyer is pretty good unless you run out of creatures (bad topdeck mode).
Three triggers is probably around where it starts being actively good. Running out of creatures is obviously really bad, but I have to imagine there's a number of creatures where that becomes a much smaller issue.
One point life gain is in no way compensation for a creature that can't block and can only attack if you played a creature before combat. The sequencing restrictions aren't worth a 3/3 flyer. You can compensate the block issue some by running instant token makers, like the devil card, but then you're running more mediocre cards to try and prop up a suboptimal card and you're hoping to draft them together and then draw them in the right order. In my opinion, Prayers isn't better than Tomb in ways that matter for the overall evaluation.
And for more context, Emancipation Angel is a much better card, but it's still not cubed that often.
Had a thought... Is it worth having a copy of snow basics in the cube pool, and if you pick it you can use snow basics instead of that basic? It is definitely a commitment to a snow theme though, and I would need to dig into how many payoffs there actually is for that to not be a terrible idea.
The first time someone picks snow cards and the basic never comes around to them, thats the end of that experience
I am pretty on board with Throes of Chaos. Kinda everything I love about cube in one card, works well in red decks flooding out and in spells matter decks, will definitely test.
Seems like I am interested in like 5-6 cards right now... looking forward to the rest of the set
My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
This. I'm thinking the same. This set brings some sweet cards to let them pass only for a word on lands.
Abominable Treefolk, Frostwalk Bastion, Arcum's Astrolabe and this snow Isamaru Golem are nuts. And we have spoiler to see yet.
My Omniscience Draft Cube[/b]
My Commander Cube
My Pai Gow Cube
My Two-Headed Giant Cube
Valiant changeling is worth testing. It's... irritatingly variant from cube to cube however so I wouldn't be surprised if the cube that runs more kor or kithkin or sheep to get more mileage out of it than the others.
Also, yeah, this set has that Timespiral block feel. Which I love. Splice? Changeling? Yay.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I want to just house rule it to be "basic lands and coldsteel heart only"
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
In that case, why bother at all with snow lands? Might as well house rule the cards to say "any land". Not that that's any less awkward, but if you want to make the snow part of the card meaningless, you have easier ways to do it than spend a lot of money on snow lands, including just altering the card to say 1.
What do People feel about Throes of Chaos? Might be a decent flood protector? Late game for red, use with grixis control, as well as potentially giving you two triggers off of spellslingers.
Anyone considering Vesperlark? It's a mini-Reveillark, and I want to like it, but it probably isn't good enough. It supports blink and flyers and even returns 80-90 creatures in my cube, but I think it's too slow.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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Im interested just because of how much I love the design. It's interesting how costing any mana cost from 2 to 5 doesnt necessarily make the card better or worse. I think 4 is the best choice.
/
As for vesperlark, even if it gets back 80 creatures, how many of those that you want on turn 4 or 5? Returning llanowar elves may be like returning a token. Returning mother of runes is sweet.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I really like these cost reducing cards as well. Strong enough and cheap enough pretty easily.
3 mana 2/1 flyer on Vesperlark is just a bad statline. Hard to imagine wanting it in aggro due to that, and most other decks won't have enough ones to support it. Might be a decent aristocrats card, but outside of that its applications seem limited.
Throes of Chaos just compares poorly to both card advantage spells and late game finishers, even ignoring it's awkwardness. Losing at least 1 mana on each cast makes it really hard for it to be worth it.
Answered Prayers is interesting to me. It doesn't block, but the lifegain helps counteract that. Its condition is annoying, but a evasive 3/3 that dodges sorcery speed removal with upside is pretty appealing.
Thoughts on the similar Angel's Tomb?
My 720 Peasant Cube
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Three triggers is probably around where it starts being actively good. Running out of creatures is obviously really bad, but I have to imagine there's a number of creatures where that becomes a much smaller issue.
And for more context, Emancipation Angel is a much better card, but it's still not cubed that often.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
The first time someone picks snow cards and the basic never comes around to them, thats the end of that experience
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Faerie Seer nice replacement for Omenspeaker, etc
I am pretty on board with Throes of Chaos. Kinda everything I love about cube in one card, works well in red decks flooding out and in spells matter decks, will definitely test.
Seems like I am interested in like 5-6 cards right now... looking forward to the rest of the set