I really wouldn't call those three grave recursion spells functional reprints. Duet having to target 2 things is a huge disadvantage and especially slapping a Cycle 2 on a card makes it like 50 % better overall.
Gorger is fine, but I won't currently play it because it ranks just outside of the 6 slots I have available at the moment. It's not necessarily worse than things I run but other things fulfil certain roles while this is only a vanilla beater, and as such it competes with Peema Outrider for the only slot I have available for a green vanilla CC4 beater. And I'm pretty sure Outrider is better.
As of Short Sword... People are still running Scimitar? I consider it just Borderline at 360, so I'm pretty sure I would never have room for 3 of them at only 1.5 times the size.
These are all fair points. I didn't even notice that the Soul Salvage is technically a strictly better Duet with the ability to return one creature, but like I said - functionally, it's still the black twist on Divination. In pauper where the environment pretty heavily revolves around creatures, I think the restriction on Death's Duet barely registers as a criticism. Creatures die a lot.
Gorger is fine, but I was curious where it would go in the rankings.
Looking at the list, it's true we've gotten a wealth of flexible role-players and strong beaters at this mana cost in the last handful of sets. Where would we put Baloth Gorger? Possibly on the same level as a Wild Leotau or Elephant Ambush? How often is 5 power relevant when it stunts your mana, or how often do you get to eat a creature with Elephant Ambush? One poster even equated Baloth to a worse Kavu Primarch, which I think is incorrect. The higher baseline stats are a big plus, since that will be the most commonly played mode by far.
Gift of Growth - similar to Aim High, but I value the untap clause more than the kicker here.
Both actually untap though, so it's more whether you want the option of having kicker vs granting reach. Also, I think Vines of the Recluse might be slightly better in the untap reach green combat spot if you want the reach option.
Thanks, bit of a brain fart on my end. Yes, the reach is extremely valuable to me for dealing with the abundance of blue and white fliers, something that a deck with a lot of green ground pounders tends to really struggle with. The +4/+4 is kind of overkill. The P/T range of pauper creatures is low enough that +2 gives you survivability and killing power most of the time. Vines of the Recluse fills the same role and is cheap enough to fit into your curve better, but I still prefer the +2 on power to ensure I can kill what I need to. Might be a wash though since most flyers rarely have 3 or more toughness
Wow, you are ranking Baloth Gorger way higher than I did. Maybe because I recently removed every green creature with cmc 6 or higher, and the Gorger simply seemed not that impresive just as a 4/4. But I may consider it again if you say it's better than Wild Leotau, for example.
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My 490 Pauper Cube
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Primal Huntbeast/Jade Guardian are your highest picks for the aura/hexproof archetype, but in a vacuum they are pretty weak. I even added Conifer Strider a short while ago, because most auras I run either give additional protection (regeneration) or evasion, which compensates the lack of toughness and it's just such a fast clock with Spectral Flight.
Thanks, this bit is really interesting for me because I only saw the Jade Guardian as a bad merfolk enabler, instead of a second copy of Primal Huntbeast. The incidental +1/+1 counter synergy might even make it a better version of Huntbeast
As exactly a 4-drop in a random deck Mandrills is likely worse than most of the other 4/4 beaters, but as a card overall it's miles above any of the 4-drops' power level bar Blastoderm, not even close.
I feel like ranking any of the 4-drop vanilla beaters beyond Outrider/Gorger/Imperiosaur is kind of pointless at this point, because Rumbling Baloth and Leotau are so massively outclassed by the other options nowadays.
The top three are pretty far above yeah, but I agree with Al - the others aren't so much outclassed as they are sideclassed by roleplayers that give you more utility.
On a side note, I'm really curious about how the drawbacks of Imperiosaur and Emperor Crocodile have been playing out for other cubers. Does Imperiosaur often get stuck because you drew a karoo or mana dork instead of land? Does Emperor Crocodile often get 2-for-1ed or get stuck in your hand?
Hard to rank them indeed.
So just by looking at my Cubes
In T1 I run Blastoderm way above curve. Usually it reads CC4: deal 15dmg Festerhide Boar always on the edge of moving to T2, but its kinda always a 5/5 trample in actual games Imperiosaur not much to say here. Since I dont run much ramp you cant get better stuff T4 Jade GuardianPrimal Huntbeast Archetype support, might even consider the Strider when Al likes it Penumbra Spider didnt impress me too much lately since it cant stall or kill blues 4/4s, but its way above curve Wild Leotau 5 power is way better than 4 since it kill in 4 turns. The upkeep doesnt matter since my curve is so low.
so, i think vanilla 4/4s are worse than our options and insanely boring on top. Also I dont like big fatties without trample, since they get stalled infinitely. elephant ambush didnt convince me either, the buyback is way to costly and a 3/3 flash for 4 isnt too great either, especially double G hurts it.
Conifer Strider is better for Al because he runs rengenerate auras like Savage Silhouette and Trollhide and some totem armor cards. If you just run the ones that are strong by themselves instead like Moldervine Cloak and company then the Strider isn't nearly as imposing since it will only have 3-4 toughness as opposed to 5-6 with Primal Huntbeast.
Its kind of like the gimmick you could occasionally run in old core set limiteds where you got Sacred Wolf (which Al may also run?) and slapped Trollhide on it. More annoying to the opponent than consistently good (and I should know it was one of my favorite plays)
yeah its worse with greens auras i run but seems indeed quite bonkers with blue ones. its also interesting for decks that can keep the board empty. but i wont find a slot anyway, since im not adding more 4+ drops
so after playing with some of the dominaria cards, i first must say that wotc really stepped up their limited game lately. starting with amonkhet and the nice cycling and gy option to dominaria with really decent kicker stuff.
those are all well playing allrounders. yes im talking for tier2 level cubes here, but honestly i like my t2 much more atm.
Academy Drake - cubable Adventurous Impulse - bad even more unexciting than expected, you dont want to dilute your cube or deck with it Baloth Gorger - cubable Blink of an Eye - borderline its ok, but we have many more alternatives like repulse Caligo Skin-Witch - borderline. its nice if you need some defensive creatures, but the discard comes really late and the body stays weak Call the Cavalry - borderline to bad - already outclassed Cloudreader Sphinx - cubable - indeed i prefer it over chiemera Dark Bargain - boderline. its ok, but we have better stuff. like Night's Whisper Divest - borderline. barely an upgrade to ostracize, except your running tons of artifacts. Radiating Lightning - borderline. quite strong in cubes that have a token theme Saproling Migration - boderline. i recently cut all token support in green. although it has some nice tools, r/w can do it better and green can do his ramp thing Sergeant-at-Arms - borderline. surprisingly solid. i tend to give it cubable Run Amok - cubable. does what it should Keldon Overseer - cubable to bad. 3/1 is really fragile for a 3 drop and its kicker is really expensive. im not sold on this card, but keep it for now
I really liked Academy Drake when I saw the spoiler, but then I remembered we've had Apex Hawks for ages and never considered it good enough...
Adventurous impulse for me replaces a land in a deck, so even if is not super exciting, gives green more consistency. It depends on what is your judgement about green's power level in your cube.
I want to give Sergeant-at-arms a try, but not sure if is better than the rest of the cards in white right now =/
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i think apex hawks are as great as well. they are in a faster color though, blue like lategame stuff. it kinda depends on your meta, but wind drakes are usually quite solid anyway.
about impulse. i tried them the same way, as a land replacement. but that can mess with your curve, if you have to cast it on t2 for example. and when you dont find that land, youre a sad panda. it makes mulligans relatively risky.
i also went through all available fixing, since my t1 needed some tweaks. so i added
Caravan Vigil - this indeed can replace a land and when it triggers its just awesome. its got a bad rating here, but you have to look at it as a evolving wilds variation Edge of Autumn - kinda "slow", but since it cycles its still great for fast metas Search for Tomorrow - not sure about this one, it might be to slow when you cant suspend on turn1 Land Grant - overlooked, but this replaces a land as well. it also allows single forest splashes. Fertile Thicket - impulse for free
Evolving Wild is good because it's colorless and goes in a land slot. This seems really bad for what you're trying to accomplish, square pegs and round holes.
Yeah, I disagree on that comparison. Adventurous impulse is good because it gives you lands or creatures. It's a pseudo ponder, not a land search card. If it is of no use in the late game, just put a land in the deck instead.
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These are all fair points. I didn't even notice that the Soul Salvage is technically a strictly better Duet with the ability to return one creature, but like I said - functionally, it's still the black twist on Divination. In pauper where the environment pretty heavily revolves around creatures, I think the restriction on Death's Duet barely registers as a criticism. Creatures die a lot.
Gorger is fine, but I was curious where it would go in the rankings.
Looking at the list, it's true we've gotten a wealth of flexible role-players and strong beaters at this mana cost in the last handful of sets. Where would we put Baloth Gorger? Possibly on the same level as a Wild Leotau or Elephant Ambush? How often is 5 power relevant when it stunts your mana, or how often do you get to eat a creature with Elephant Ambush? One poster even equated Baloth to a worse Kavu Primarch, which I think is incorrect. The higher baseline stats are a big plus, since that will be the most commonly played mode by far.
Thanks, bit of a brain fart on my end. Yes, the reach is extremely valuable to me for dealing with the abundance of blue and white fliers, something that a deck with a lot of green ground pounders tends to really struggle with. The +4/+4 is kind of overkill. The P/T range of pauper creatures is low enough that +2 gives you survivability and killing power most of the time. Vines of the Recluse fills the same role and is cheap enough to fit into your curve better, but I still prefer the +2 on power to ensure I can kill what I need to. Might be a wash though since most flyers rarely have 3 or more toughness
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
Thanks, this bit is really interesting for me because I only saw the Jade Guardian as a bad merfolk enabler, instead of a second copy of Primal Huntbeast. The incidental +1/+1 counter synergy might even make it a better version of Huntbeast
The top three are pretty far above yeah, but I agree with Al - the others aren't so much outclassed as they are sideclassed by roleplayers that give you more utility.
On a side note, I'm really curious about how the drawbacks of Imperiosaur and Emperor Crocodile have been playing out for other cubers. Does Imperiosaur often get stuck because you drew a karoo or mana dork instead of land? Does Emperor Crocodile often get 2-for-1ed or get stuck in your hand?
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
So just by looking at my Cubes
In T1 I run
Blastoderm way above curve. Usually it reads CC4: deal 15dmg
Festerhide Boar always on the edge of moving to T2, but its kinda always a 5/5 trample in actual games
Imperiosaur not much to say here. Since I dont run much ramp you cant get better stuff T4
Jade GuardianPrimal Huntbeast Archetype support, might even consider the Strider when Al likes it
Penumbra Spider didnt impress me too much lately since it cant stall or kill blues 4/4s, but its way above curve
Wild Leotau 5 power is way better than 4 since it kill in 4 turns. The upkeep doesnt matter since my curve is so low.
T2 got
Aerie Bowmasters solid and flexible, much better than vanilla 4/4s imho
Ambassador Oak get the 4/4 on two bodies to support swarm
Emperor Crocodile with swarm support you always have bodies
Ivy Lane Denizen token support and combo piece with Safehold Elite+Nantuko Husk
Kozilek's Predator tokens
Peema Outrider more tokens
Solitary Hunter mayybe moves to t1 for the spider
Thrashing Mossdog more reach and synergy with discard and pump
so, i think vanilla 4/4s are worse than our options and insanely boring on top. Also I dont like big fatties without trample, since they get stalled infinitely. elephant ambush didnt convince me either, the buyback is way to costly and a 3/3 flash for 4 isnt too great either, especially double G hurts it.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Its kind of like the gimmick you could occasionally run in old core set limiteds where you got Sacred Wolf (which Al may also run?) and slapped Trollhide on it. More annoying to the opponent than consistently good (and I should know it was one of my favorite plays)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
those are all well playing allrounders. yes im talking for tier2 level cubes here, but honestly i like my t2 much more atm.
Academy Drake - cubable
Adventurous Impulse - bad even more unexciting than expected, you dont want to dilute your cube or deck with it
Baloth Gorger - cubable
Blink of an Eye - borderline its ok, but we have many more alternatives like repulse
Caligo Skin-Witch - borderline. its nice if you need some defensive creatures, but the discard comes really late and the body stays weak
Call the Cavalry - borderline to bad - already outclassed
Cloudreader Sphinx - cubable - indeed i prefer it over chiemera
Dark Bargain - boderline. its ok, but we have better stuff. like Night's Whisper
Divest - borderline. barely an upgrade to ostracize, except your running tons of artifacts.
Radiating Lightning - borderline. quite strong in cubes that have a token theme
Saproling Migration - boderline. i recently cut all token support in green. although it has some nice tools, r/w can do it better and green can do his ramp thing
Sergeant-at-Arms - borderline. surprisingly solid. i tend to give it cubable
Run Amok - cubable. does what it should
Keldon Overseer - cubable to bad. 3/1 is really fragile for a 3 drop and its kicker is really expensive. im not sold on this card, but keep it for now
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Adventurous impulse for me replaces a land in a deck, so even if is not super exciting, gives green more consistency. It depends on what is your judgement about green's power level in your cube.
I want to give Sergeant-at-arms a try, but not sure if is better than the rest of the cards in white right now =/
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
about impulse. i tried them the same way, as a land replacement. but that can mess with your curve, if you have to cast it on t2 for example. and when you dont find that land, youre a sad panda. it makes mulligans relatively risky.
i also went through all available fixing, since my t1 needed some tweaks. so i added
Caravan Vigil - this indeed can replace a land and when it triggers its just awesome. its got a bad rating here, but you have to look at it as a evolving wilds variation
Edge of Autumn - kinda "slow", but since it cycles its still great for fast metas
Search for Tomorrow - not sure about this one, it might be to slow when you cant suspend on turn1
Land Grant - overlooked, but this replaces a land as well. it also allows single forest splashes.
Fertile Thicket - impulse for free
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
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My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters