I just got back from the prerelease. Surprisingly enough, there were quite a few artifact creatures that left a good impression on me. Since colourless felt surprisingly shallow when I was making my Dominaria edits, I might well include at least a few of the following:
Voltaic Servant: While 1/3 semi-vigilance for two generic is not great, it is not utterly unplayable, either. However, its real power is untapping other artifacts. While there might not be enough good targets (mana rocks are good, though), it did certainly leave a good impression.
Uh, I'm extremely skeptical of this
1/3 "vigilance" for 2 is indeed wildly unplayable in every cube deck (nobody plays Brass Man for 1). It's not even good with mana rocks in most situations (three lands + this + Signet doesn't add up to a five-drop), not particularly strong with Icy Manipulator since one of your activations has to be main-phase (and you're that much more likely not to be attacking once you've spent a whole card on this 1/3 for 2), so that leaves like... Serrated Arrows and a vigilance boost for the tiny number of artifact creatures in your cube.
Seeing as how I had planned on cutting Repulse to add a second copy of Into the Roil, neither of those would be options.
I don't think I have that many counters. Comparing my cube to the average MTGS cube on CubeTutor only shows Force Spike and Arcane Denial as odd cards. I don't know that I'd be willing to cut either of those. I did look at Supreme Will as an option for a cut, though.
Yeah there's so few good-amount-of-power-and-toughness blue cards at any CMC that I can't imagine giving up Talrand's Invocation.
I'm also skeptical that Time of Ice is actually better than Frost Breath or the like, but could see it overperforming after some proper testing. But yes, cut something non-creature instead ideally.
How do you feel about Supreme Will as a possible cut?
I'm planning to include Fungal Infection. Over a third of my creatures are x/1s, most decks make good use of 1/1s, and it's a pretty reasonable defensive trick. I think it's a solid choice for B cost removal: Disfigure has a low ceiling, Tragic Slip is hard to turn on at times, Darkblast is match-up specific, and Fatal Push has its limitations.
Where is the ceiling for Fungal Infection significantly higher than Disfigure? Against an x/1, Fungal Infection leaves around a 1/1 which Disfigure won't. But as a combat trick, Disfigure can help your 3/3 win against a 4/4 etc, which Fungal Infection can't do. Disfigure kills all the x/2's, which Fungal Infection can only do if the creature is attacking (and doesn't have evasion). Certainly situations where Fungal Infection can be better, but I'd wager the other upsides of Disfigure are more important on average.
It has been putting in work in stuff like Kenji Egashira's first draft of Dominaria. It also did good work in LoadingReadyRun's pre-prerelease. I faced a deck with it in the prerelease but won the match before seeing it too much. I suppose that is the risk with it: the opponent might just win in the meantime. However, I have seen enough to at least consider adding it.
I don't think I've ever seen Disfigure used as a combat trick. There are just so few creatures bigger than a x/2 outside of green, and having to get both one on each side and have them fight is rare (not to mention getting blown out).
Fungal Infection is disfigure + a 1/1 if you have a decent x/1 target, which is a huge upside on a 1 cmc spell. It can also 2 for 1 defensively against 2 x/1s, and it can be a combat trick (2/2 vs. 2/2 happens way more than 3/3 vs. 4/4). I'm not saying it's an auto include, but it's a flexible card with a solid average case and a good ceiling.
Apparently LSV is a big fan. Which certainly makes me reconsider my dismissing of it. It might be due to the relative speed of the dominaria set though.
Apparently LSV is a big fan. Which certainly makes me reconsider my dismissing of it. It might be due to the relative speed of the dominaria set though.
The initial events of Dominaria have mostly been sealed, yes? so even slower than a normal limited environment. Probably too slow for us, but I don't think it's an objectively bad card and G/U has always had like one card worth of wiggle room if you want to try it.
I heard the LR cast on the cards, and they where high on Tatyova. The description that caught my attention was "you play this on the same turn you play your sixth land, and chances are you won't miss another land drop and just draw two cards for the rest of the game".
And sure, while LSV is high on card draw, he also knows about his love for cards like these and gave actual divination a 2/5 (while joking it was the best card in the set etc.).
The speed is the key I think, and also the prevalence and quality of removal. Not only do you need your game to go to the sixth land drop, but you then need your opponent to have spent all their Eviscerates and Shivan Fires, not just untap and Flametongue Kavu.
Does anyone else have experience with Time of Ice? Having played against it a few times (but not yet with it), it does feel like a real strong card. A few talking points:
1) It does feel like a better card for aggro/tempo decks than control, but probably good for both. I like that you wait until turn 2 to tap the second target just because the card is more effective against an opponent with only one good single target since they feel disinclined to cast another good creature on their next turn. Also, the bounce for all tapped creatures can dissuade attacks before chapter III hits. That said...
2) The card can be rough against creatures with ETB abilities. If your opponent can manage an attack with a good ETB creature without having it die in combat, they get the benefit of recasting it. So far, I have picked up both an un-kicked Stronghold Confessor and a Yavimaya Sapherd and got benefit from recasting them in vanilla Dominaria limited.
3) Unsurprisingly, Time of Ice is not great against all board states. In the game where I got to re-cast Sapherd, Time of Ice was played when both sides had relatively inconsequential boards and it did not accomplish much. The first solution is just to hold it when it can be better, but if your opponent is mostly using spells to hold off your creatures, Time of Ice might not do too much.
All this said, I would like to find a cut for it, which I think will be Deep Analysis, a card which has some good uses, but generally feels replaceable in most of my control decks.
I think Time of Ice is playable, but I wouldn't cut Chilling Grasp for it.
For me and my group, a card like Time of Ice is more interesting than Chilling Grasp, so I would expect it to see more play based on that alone. Grasp may be the better card ultimately, but I think I'd go with the card my group would be more likely to slot into their decks.
I think Time of Ice is the second best (uncommon) saga. But I think Sagas are very slow and your opponent can see it and play around it. It was very good for me in sealed and draft but dominaria is very slow. It also seems to be more of a 1 large creature format than my cube is. There is a lot more efficiency and etbs. I prefer Aetherize.
Time of Ice should probably be played on top of other tap effects, not instead of them. Time of Ice into Blustersquall or Sleep can be devastating and even simpler "add-on" effects like Frost Lynx make it better. I believe that is where its real strength lies, not in how much you can get out of it on its own.
Sorry for my lack of participation over the last couple months. I've been super busy with a new apartment and work. Anyways, I did add a bunch of cards from Dominaria and included all of them into the pool of our 6-man cube last night.
Here are the cards I added:
Dauntless Bodyguard: 2/1 with upside. Aggressive and can protect another creature.. very solid. Works in both aggro decks and midrange/ramp decks. Danitha Capashen, Paragon: At 3 mana, the keywords alone at least warrant a test. Not sure if she's good enough, but certainly a "decent" creature. On Serra's Wings: I just love the value you can get out of this card. Again, with all auras, timing is a factor. If timed right, you can generate a huge life swing and still play defense. If timed poorly, you get blown out. It has a bunch of relevant keywords, albeit a small buff. Definitely a "pet card" that I want to test to see if it is any good.
Merfolk Trickster: I don't play any UU cards, but this one is certainly powerful enough. Can be used both offensively and defensively. It's flexible. You can't necessarily consider this a 2 drop, since its effect scales very well. The player who had him last night said he used it on offense, to negate a Penumbra Spider trigger, and to just tap something for value. Seems good.
Skizzik: Amazing. I played this card last night and got in for 5. Favorite card of the set.
Divest: With the addition of some strong artifacts lately, including the vehicles, I felt another piece of disruption that can hit those cards is certainly welcome. Cast Down: I think the downside is smaller than Doom Blade. Easy switch. Chainer's Torment: Some of my buddies wanted me to try this card. I think it's mediocre, but I'll indulge them this one time.
Untamed Kavu: Strong keywords on a bear that scales. Sign me up.
Shanna, Sisay's Legacy: Trying something new out in my Selesnya section. Not super exciting, but I'll test it.
Garna, the Bloodflame: Seems like it could be interesting. We'll have to see how it's average case scenario plays out.
Zhalfirin Void: This card was played last night and my buddy said it was very good. Just a solid utility land that will make it into most decks.
Haven't posted here in a while but I plan to cube a lot over the summer. Has anyone added any of the memorial cycle? I've been thinking about trying them out but Blighted Gorge and Blighted Cataract never played that well in the past.
Hey I was just wondering what cards people have been loving now that they (hopefully) have gotten some testing in?
Have people added The Eldest Reborn, Time of Ice, or Cloudreader Sphinx?
Has Garna, the Bloodflame worked out for anyone? Merfolk Trickster earned CC spot of still too taxing?
Anything else really impressed or disappointed?
Baird, Steward of Argive is fantastic. Easily dealt with when you're facing up against it, but also very powerful when it's on your side of the board. I wouldn't fault anyone for not running it.
Untamed Kavu was usually just a 2/2 trample vig, which is great, but not amazing. It's flexibility is what sells the card. Every single green deck will find room for it.
Merfolk Trickster isn't worth it. If anyone was talking about the "hard to cast" aspect of this card, that's just not a thing. You cast this guy on turn 5+, where islands are abundant. With that being said, it was basically used as a 2/2 "surprise you can't attack with that creature" kind of thing.
Skizzik definitely worth it. I heard two of the girls in our group laughing about a Skizzik not kicked, 3 to the face, followed by a turn or two later Reanimate for another 4 to the face. I don't remember the numbers exactly. I'll just assume it was more than 7.
Cast Down actually was relevant more than I thought would, but still better than every other black removal.
Uh, I'm extremely skeptical of this
1/3 "vigilance" for 2 is indeed wildly unplayable in every cube deck (nobody plays Brass Man for 1). It's not even good with mana rocks in most situations (three lands + this + Signet doesn't add up to a five-drop), not particularly strong with Icy Manipulator since one of your activations has to be main-phase (and you're that much more likely not to be attacking once you've spent a whole card on this 1/3 for 2), so that leaves like... Serrated Arrows and a vigilance boost for the tiny number of artifact creatures in your cube.
Seeing as how I had planned on cutting Repulse to add a second copy of Into the Roil, neither of those would be options.
I don't think I have that many counters. Comparing my cube to the average MTGS cube on CubeTutor only shows Force Spike and Arcane Denial as odd cards. I don't know that I'd be willing to cut either of those. I did look at Supreme Will as an option for a cut, though.
How do you feel about Supreme Will as a possible cut?
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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EDIT: And I think I might like Skulduggery over Fungal Infection.
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It has been putting in work in stuff like Kenji Egashira's first draft of Dominaria. It also did good work in LoadingReadyRun's pre-prerelease. I faced a deck with it in the prerelease but won the match before seeing it too much. I suppose that is the risk with it: the opponent might just win in the meantime. However, I have seen enough to at least consider adding it.
Fungal Infection is disfigure + a 1/1 if you have a decent x/1 target, which is a huge upside on a 1 cmc spell. It can also 2 for 1 defensively against 2 x/1s, and it can be a combat trick (2/2 vs. 2/2 happens way more than 3/3 vs. 4/4). I'm not saying it's an auto include, but it's a flexible card with a solid average case and a good ceiling.
Apparently LSV is a big fan. Which certainly makes me reconsider my dismissing of it. It might be due to the relative speed of the dominaria set though.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
Dominaria isn't ~that~ slow, is it?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Draft my Peasant Cube.
And sure, while LSV is high on card draw, he also knows about his love for cards like these and gave actual divination a 2/5 (while joking it was the best card in the set etc.).
The speed is the key I think, and also the prevalence and quality of removal. Not only do you need your game to go to the sixth land drop, but you then need your opponent to have spent all their Eviscerates and Shivan Fires, not just untap and Flametongue Kavu.
(LSV also gave Treasure Cruise a low grade).
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
1) It does feel like a better card for aggro/tempo decks than control, but probably good for both. I like that you wait until turn 2 to tap the second target just because the card is more effective against an opponent with only one good single target since they feel disinclined to cast another good creature on their next turn. Also, the bounce for all tapped creatures can dissuade attacks before chapter III hits. That said...
2) The card can be rough against creatures with ETB abilities. If your opponent can manage an attack with a good ETB creature without having it die in combat, they get the benefit of recasting it. So far, I have picked up both an un-kicked Stronghold Confessor and a Yavimaya Sapherd and got benefit from recasting them in vanilla Dominaria limited.
3) Unsurprisingly, Time of Ice is not great against all board states. In the game where I got to re-cast Sapherd, Time of Ice was played when both sides had relatively inconsequential boards and it did not accomplish much. The first solution is just to hold it when it can be better, but if your opponent is mostly using spells to hold off your creatures, Time of Ice might not do too much.
All this said, I would like to find a cut for it, which I think will be Deep Analysis, a card which has some good uses, but generally feels replaceable in most of my control decks.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
For me and my group, a card like Time of Ice is more interesting than Chilling Grasp, so I would expect it to see more play based on that alone. Grasp may be the better card ultimately, but I think I'd go with the card my group would be more likely to slot into their decks.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Sorry for my lack of participation over the last couple months. I've been super busy with a new apartment and work. Anyways, I did add a bunch of cards from Dominaria and included all of them into the pool of our 6-man cube last night.
Here are the cards I added:
Dauntless Bodyguard: 2/1 with upside. Aggressive and can protect another creature.. very solid. Works in both aggro decks and midrange/ramp decks.
Danitha Capashen, Paragon: At 3 mana, the keywords alone at least warrant a test. Not sure if she's good enough, but certainly a "decent" creature.
On Serra's Wings: I just love the value you can get out of this card. Again, with all auras, timing is a factor. If timed right, you can generate a huge life swing and still play defense. If timed poorly, you get blown out. It has a bunch of relevant keywords, albeit a small buff. Definitely a "pet card" that I want to test to see if it is any good.
Merfolk Trickster: I don't play any UU cards, but this one is certainly powerful enough. Can be used both offensively and defensively. It's flexible. You can't necessarily consider this a 2 drop, since its effect scales very well. The player who had him last night said he used it on offense, to negate a Penumbra Spider trigger, and to just tap something for value. Seems good.
Skizzik: Amazing. I played this card last night and got in for 5. Favorite card of the set.
Divest: With the addition of some strong artifacts lately, including the vehicles, I felt another piece of disruption that can hit those cards is certainly welcome.
Cast Down: I think the downside is smaller than Doom Blade. Easy switch.
Chainer's Torment: Some of my buddies wanted me to try this card. I think it's mediocre, but I'll indulge them this one time.
Untamed Kavu: Strong keywords on a bear that scales. Sign me up.
Shanna, Sisay's Legacy: Trying something new out in my Selesnya section. Not super exciting, but I'll test it.
Garna, the Bloodflame: Seems like it could be interesting. We'll have to see how it's average case scenario plays out.
Zhalfirin Void: This card was played last night and my buddy said it was very good. Just a solid utility land that will make it into most decks.
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Baird, Steward of Argive doing the job, being oppressive against aggro, or being bad?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Have people added The Eldest Reborn, Time of Ice, or Cloudreader Sphinx?
Has Garna, the Bloodflame worked out for anyone?
Merfolk Trickster earned CC spot of still too taxing?
Anything else really impressed or disappointed?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Baird, Steward of Argive is fantastic. Easily dealt with when you're facing up against it, but also very powerful when it's on your side of the board. I wouldn't fault anyone for not running it.
Dauntless Bodyguard is as expected.
Untamed Kavu was usually just a 2/2 trample vig, which is great, but not amazing. It's flexibility is what sells the card. Every single green deck will find room for it.
Merfolk Trickster isn't worth it. If anyone was talking about the "hard to cast" aspect of this card, that's just not a thing. You cast this guy on turn 5+, where islands are abundant. With that being said, it was basically used as a 2/2 "surprise you can't attack with that creature" kind of thing.
Skizzik definitely worth it. I heard two of the girls in our group laughing about a Skizzik not kicked, 3 to the face, followed by a turn or two later Reanimate for another 4 to the face. I don't remember the numbers exactly. I'll just assume it was more than 7.
Cast Down actually was relevant more than I thought would, but still better than every other black removal.