Have to remember he's also ranking these cards for this format, if he were to rank them for your cube the rating may differ quite a bit. Also, singleton makes a difference.
That's true, and he's not always right of course, but it's still interesting to see what kind of cards he likes and why he likes them. C/Ube as a format is not that far removed from normal draft, unlike most rare cubes, so a lot of it still applies. Like, if Sacred Cat is actually a playable in Amonkhet, it's far more likely to be a two for one in C/Ube than in normal draft. That's at least worth considering and I doubt very many people were considering that card when it was spoiled.
I don't get why anybody would rate Sacred Cat that highly. In a format of x/1's I can see the point but there doesn't seem to be many of those in Amonkhet and the fact that Embalm is a thing makes it even worse. There's probably more x/1's floating around in cube than most draft formats but I still don't think it's good.
In general I'd expect most cube cards to have ratings of 3+, with outliers for build around cards that we have payoffs for where normal draft doesn't, aggro 1drops and the like that require a certain density to be good (Jackal Pup) and high end curve toppers where we have the ability for games to go long enough/ramp enough to actually cast the Trostani's Summoners of the world.
Amonkhet has several token lords and a lot of pump effects, some of them repeatable. Besides, the rating isn't that high, he rated Sacred Cat 3,0 on Channel Fireball and C- on Limited Resources, which basically means it's a solid card you're going to play most of the time. He didn't claim it would be great.
"A solid card you're going to play most of the time" is the rating I'm contesting. I am unlikely to play this card, and I hope my opponents do.
Unless I'm missing something, there isn't a token lord that grants power. But there is lord of the accursed.
Still.
There isn't a reasonable expectation to get the cat (or token) bigger than a 2/2 without the red unstable mutation. There's no trusty machete. No spectral flight. Is the card worth running if you guarantee the white trial? I would still say probably not, since playing a bad card that is a good card for one turn sounds bad. The green monument can get it to reasonable stats more often, I suppose, but it's still conditional.
//
But the most important thing I can say is: How many X/1s can't attack into this at common?
A green 3/1, sure. But then...
Festering zombie, sometimes
An embalm blue creature
A creature that upgrades into a 2/2
And an exert red creature that gets to attack over it.
All of the embalm tokens are white zombies, so Lord of the Accursed is in fact a token lord. White alone has four pump spells, three of which you're likely to play in a WB zombie deck and one of those three is repeatable (Trial of Solidarity), plus Tah-Crop Elite. Time to Reflect is the best removal spells in the format if you can run it and the cat token activates that as well. WR has Honored Crop-Captain plus 4 pump spells and one creature-based pump. Green is a similar picture and even Blue has the cartouche and the token abilities lord. There's even the cat lord at rare which goes into every single white deck if you can get it.
It should be fairly easy to have this be a 2/2 lifelink when it counts, particularly given that all of the cartouches provide extra value by returning the trials. For one mana it doesn't have to be more to be a solid card. Draft sets are designed to make players struggle for the last few playables. Sacred Cat is not one of the better cards, but after thinking about it, it does look to me like it'll end up as one of the last few playables in a Wx deck fairly often.
I just don't think that the card becomes good when you do use one of the +1/+1 buffs, so I really need a better body for me to spend a card on a card.
Blue cartouche IS an effect I overlooked and there it in indeed a good 2/2. Totally am fine with that.
//
Then, they were very interested in Faith of the Devoted, but Bontu's monument is an F. One of them is more conditional, costs more mana, and doesn't even have the courtesy to give you bad discounts. But it's two or three steps better than a bad card? Call me skeptical.
..
I'm starting to think that, once you get good enough at card evaluations, the difference between some shmoe like me and LSV is that he plays much tighter, allocates resources better, remembers outs and tricks better, and adapts mid-draft much better.
But it seems like he can be as human as the rest of us when evaluating blind.
Then, they were very interested in Faith of the Devoted, but Bontu's monument is an F. One of them is more conditional, costs more mana, and doesn't even have the courtesy to give you bad discounts. But it's two or three steps better than a bad card? Call me skeptical.
In AKH limited, there may be something to Faith of the Devoted. I played against someone during prerelease who went very deep with cyclers and Faith who made it to the finals. If he could do that well with that kind of a janky buildaround in sealed, I suspect it'll have some real potential in draft where it's easier to get the synergistic pieces you need to make it work.
But it seems like he can be as human as the rest of us when evaluating blind.
Absolutely, and every set they devote a whole show on Limited Resources for re-review to see what mistakes they made in their initial set evaluations, and why they got it wrong.
I agree with you that Business Cat is a pretty terrible card in this limited environment, and I was actively happy to see my opponents playing it in prerelease. A 1/1 just gets outclassed too quickly, and I'm not seeing enough recursion synergies and anthem effects to make it worthwhile. It may play out better in a cube that's going deeper on recursion and anthem strategies, but I think that those will generally be better served by Doomed Traveler because you don't have to exile the card or pay mana to get the token.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Yeah I started with two copies of Cat in my BW deck, then went down to 1, then cut it for the 2/2 for 2 with (useless) graveyard hate ability. The Cat was completely awful. Maybe in the right draft setting with a ton of support it's something, but even with a couple of tokens & zombie theme cards it was never a card I wanted to cast.
But, nobody thought it was worth a damn for CUbe and this isn't AKH limited chat, so... whatever.
--
Bloodlust Inciter might quietly be the best Jackal Pup we've seen in years. Like, you have to be a deck that's willing to play Jackal Pup for it to really do anything, but in that shell it can do a TON of damage -- this with any two 2-drops to follow up mean you've built a 1-mana Lava Axe. Not really sold on it for AKH (but it's definitely better than LSV's 0.0 rating), but really excited to see it in cube.
I was really impressed with Gust Walker. Not sure if it has a place in cube, but a relevant body early that can start chunking in the air later. The 4/3 for 3R that exerted to become a 5/4 menace was also a house but something that costs 4 has a much higher barrier for entry. Angler drake was as advertised, the only issue is finding room. The 4/4 for 5 that pumped your team when you exert was awesome in the format, but it's too parasitic to be any good in cube.
I talked my friend into playing the haste granter guy, and it worked out as well as I'd hoped. It could actually work for us, I think. It sits there and generates damage. One sided fervor that can be more than an enchantment is definitely not a 0.0! wow
And of course LSV was talking about evaluating for another format, Jovian. I certainly wasn't harping that his rating from apples didn't work for our oranges.
Okay so a story from my prerelease was that I was 3-0 coming up to the final round against the other 3-0 and everyone was terrified of his deck like "always wins on turn 4", "I never stood a chance".
I sit down across from him... it starts... mountain, Bloodlust Inciter. "that guy is terrible" I say... I was dead on turn 4. Game two i try to contort my Naya aggro deck (featuring Samut) into a control deck...he just double mighty leaped over my blockers and killed me turn 4 again.
He has also won my cube everytime he has attended a cube night.
I did mention just because it is 3.5+ rating doesn't mean it is automatically good for cube just that I am taking notice of the card. The 3.5+ rating for a review before you have seen the card in action is typically a sign the card is unversally good rather than format dependant but that was not true for everything.
I am still considering wether to add more zombies but i think if I were to do it I'd have to go all in and there isn't enough slots for all three zombie lords.
Bloodlust Inciter definitely may be a sleeper of the set. I may have to give it a try. I think it could be good... ESPECIALLY in the G/R midrange decks. Please post results for this card pnce you get some cubes with it. I'll do the same.
Bloodlust Inciter definitely may be a sleeper of the set. I may have to give it a try. I think it could be good... ESPECIALLY in the G/R midrange decks. Please post results for this card pnce you get some cubes with it. I'll do the same.
I think the inciter will be great in any midrange deck, I'll be taking out goblin glory chaser for it for sure
I will consider a bunch of others. My cube seems a lot lower to the ground that most others. I am kind of sad that i didn't manage to find a space for any embalm.
bloodlust inciter.. hmm i guess it seems better than some of my red one drops but I just replaced my one drops instead, somehow black and white one drops are better.
So after playing about 10 drafts and as many sealed of amonkhet, the card that I didn't give any second thought to as first but has impressed me a ton (in how worried I am after my opponent plays it) has been Rhonas's Monument. That card pushes through a ton of damage and is one I'm going to try out to help push green aggro a little more.
EDIT: after giving some time between be getting browned by this card, it probably doesnt do nearly enough.
So jackal Pup?
Tons of cards outclass Serra Angel. I keep it partially because I don't want to play every best card, partially because beta power.
[Developing] 430+ Peasant Cube Thread --- [and on Cube Cobra]
There are a bunch that are good due to the particularities of the format and others are just removal for which we have better options.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
In general I'd expect most cube cards to have ratings of 3+, with outliers for build around cards that we have payoffs for where normal draft doesn't, aggro 1drops and the like that require a certain density to be good (Jackal Pup) and high end curve toppers where we have the ability for games to go long enough/ramp enough to actually cast the Trostani's Summoners of the world.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
Unless I'm missing something, there isn't a token lord that grants power. But there is lord of the accursed.
Still.
There isn't a reasonable expectation to get the cat (or token) bigger than a 2/2 without the red unstable mutation. There's no trusty machete. No spectral flight. Is the card worth running if you guarantee the white trial? I would still say probably not, since playing a bad card that is a good card for one turn sounds bad. The green monument can get it to reasonable stats more often, I suppose, but it's still conditional.
//
But the most important thing I can say is: How many X/1s can't attack into this at common?
A green 3/1, sure. But then...
Festering zombie, sometimes
An embalm blue creature
A creature that upgrades into a 2/2
And an exert red creature that gets to attack over it.
That's it.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
It should be fairly easy to have this be a 2/2 lifelink when it counts, particularly given that all of the cartouches provide extra value by returning the trials. For one mana it doesn't have to be more to be a solid card. Draft sets are designed to make players struggle for the last few playables. Sacred Cat is not one of the better cards, but after thinking about it, it does look to me like it'll end up as one of the last few playables in a Wx deck fairly often.
Blue cartouche IS an effect I overlooked and there it in indeed a good 2/2. Totally am fine with that.
//
Then, they were very interested in Faith of the Devoted, but Bontu's monument is an F. One of them is more conditional, costs more mana, and doesn't even have the courtesy to give you bad discounts. But it's two or three steps better than a bad card? Call me skeptical.
..
I'm starting to think that, once you get good enough at card evaluations, the difference between some shmoe like me and LSV is that he plays much tighter, allocates resources better, remembers outs and tricks better, and adapts mid-draft much better.
But it seems like he can be as human as the rest of us when evaluating blind.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
In AKH limited, there may be something to Faith of the Devoted. I played against someone during prerelease who went very deep with cyclers and Faith who made it to the finals. If he could do that well with that kind of a janky buildaround in sealed, I suspect it'll have some real potential in draft where it's easier to get the synergistic pieces you need to make it work.
Absolutely, and every set they devote a whole show on Limited Resources for re-review to see what mistakes they made in their initial set evaluations, and why they got it wrong.
I agree with you that Business Cat is a pretty terrible card in this limited environment, and I was actively happy to see my opponents playing it in prerelease. A 1/1 just gets outclassed too quickly, and I'm not seeing enough recursion synergies and anthem effects to make it worthwhile. It may play out better in a cube that's going deeper on recursion and anthem strategies, but I think that those will generally be better served by Doomed Traveler because you don't have to exile the card or pay mana to get the token.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
But, nobody thought it was worth a damn for CUbe and this isn't AKH limited chat, so... whatever.
--
Bloodlust Inciter might quietly be the best Jackal Pup we've seen in years. Like, you have to be a deck that's willing to play Jackal Pup for it to really do anything, but in that shell it can do a TON of damage -- this with any two 2-drops to follow up mean you've built a 1-mana Lava Axe. Not really sold on it for AKH (but it's definitely better than LSV's 0.0 rating), but really excited to see it in cube.
The most interesting for me was how much he values flexibility in general.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
And of course LSV was talking about evaluating for another format, Jovian. I certainly wasn't harping that his rating from apples didn't work for our oranges.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I'll have to see Bloodlust Inciter work with my own eyes before I try it, super sceptical.
I sit down across from him... it starts... mountain, Bloodlust Inciter. "that guy is terrible" I say... I was dead on turn 4. Game two i try to contort my Naya aggro deck (featuring Samut) into a control deck...he just double mighty leaped over my blockers and killed me turn 4 again.
He has also won my cube everytime he has attended a cube night.
I did mention just because it is 3.5+ rating doesn't mean it is automatically good for cube just that I am taking notice of the card. The 3.5+ rating for a review before you have seen the card in action is typically a sign the card is unversally good rather than format dependant but that was not true for everything.
I am still considering wether to add more zombies but i think if I were to do it I'd have to go all in and there isn't enough slots for all three zombie lords.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
I think the inciter will be great in any midrange deck, I'll be taking out goblin glory chaser for it for sure
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
Here are the cards I'm adding to my Peasant cube that I've already gotten during prerelease:
OUT --> IN
Forsake the Worldly --> Disenchant
Cast Out --> Faith's Fetters
Quarry Colossus --> Seraph of the Suns
Standstill --> Hieroglyphic Illumination
Murder of Crows --> Angler Drake
Phyrexian Gargantua --> Stir the Sands
Olivia's Bloodsworn --> Bone Picker
Tragic Slip --> Supernatural Stamina
Village Messenger --> Bloodlust Inciter
Thriving Grubs --> Bloodrage Brawler
Act of Treason --> Limits of Solidarity
Skysnare Spider --> Scaled Behemoth
Seed Guardian -- Greater Sandwurm
Prophetic Bolt --> Enigma Drake
Rally the Peasants --> Honored Crop-Captain
Other cards I'm planning to try out once I get a hold of them, cuts TBD:
And, of course, I'll be adding as many full-art Amonkhet basics as I can find to my basics box.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I like the olivia's bloodsworn --> bone picker change.. there is too many spirit tokens for 1 toughness flyers.
Splatter thug ---> Ahn-crop crasher pretty much an upgrade.
Frenzied goblin ---> Bloodrage brawler
Gorehorn minotaurs ---> warfire javelineer... as I am modern peasent not modern boarder pesent I don't have Flametongue Kavu, good removal for my UR spells deck still likely to shock something in other decks.
Corrupt ---> Stir the sands my players will be mad at me for removing corrupt, they are really quite attached to it for some reason (pehaps because I called it terrible)
Bloodbriar ---> Shefet Monitor. Again I don't have acess to Tusker as modern peasent.
Flame-kin zealot ---> Honored crop-captain this is a close call, but I think the bushwhackers do this better.
Fanatic of Xenagos ---> Khenra Charioteer. I am losing haste for trample on my other creatures considering the size of GR cards I'll take it.
I will consider a bunch of others. My cube seems a lot lower to the ground that most others. I am kind of sad that i didn't manage to find a space for any embalm.
bloodlust inciter.. hmm i guess it seems better than some of my red one drops but I just replaced my one drops instead, somehow black and white one drops are better.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
EDIT: after giving some time between be getting browned by this card, it probably doesnt do nearly enough.