The couple of UR CubeTutor decks look sweet, but I've literally never seen it occur to that extreme in a real draft.
I also can't imagine a UB, UG, or UW deck that wants the Homunculus.
re: Pyromancer comparision -- YP is a 2/1 to start, and if you ever cast a spell while he's in play you get three power across two bodies for your 2-drop, which is absurd. It's not much with exactly five spells, but at 7ish or more it's a totally fine option.
I think the reason I'm iffy on him is that 4 mana is about what I'd call the going rate to pay to kill a Spirit token and get a 3/2. Like doing that would be the same as playing a Lowland Giant - fine, about what's expected for the mana, but not exciting. It would take two small creatures (or some post combat trickery to kill a 2+ touness creature) for the guy to look like an interesting above-rate cube-quality creature.
Saying that, the more I think about it, the better this guy seems. I had to make a concentrated effort recently to cut down on X/1s because pingers and dividable burn were doing too much. It probably depends on your environment, but the thought's growing on me.
I think the reason I'm iffy on him is that 4 mana is about what I'd call the going rate to pay to kill a Spirit token and get a 3/2. Like doing that would be the same as playing a Lowland Giant - fine, about what's expected for the mana, but not exciting. It would take two small creatures (or some post combat trickery to kill a 2+ touness creature) for the guy to look like an interesting above-rate cube-quality creature.
Seconded, basically. It's the eternal struggle: Trying to find those gems of cards that are strong enough for our formats, despite being designed for retail limited.
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I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Phitt
Yeah 10 instants and sorceries still leaves you with a creature light deck, and there are still artifacts and enchantments that eat a handful of slots.I may be able to remember drafting a 10 creature deck recently (last 6-8 months), but it was trash. Meanwhile, a 2/1 at 2 mana is a card, while a 1/1 two mana is not.
Kessig Prowler is an undeniably efficient card, but I don't plan on cubeing it any time soon. If we got a few more green aggro cards in the future that were as efficient as this guy I might rethink it but the powerlevel isn't there at the other CMC's for a green aggro deck to be something I want to push. Adding it without other real green aggro support seams like I'm just putting trap cards in my format which is the antithesis of good cube design (unless you're WOTC apparently :dumb: ).
Smoldering Werewolf looks pretty decent and worth a test, but I'm not sure what card I'd cut for it. I don't really want more red 4drops so I'd need to cut one of them but I don't know which.
I'll probably get shouted from the rooftops for suggesting these but...
- If you really want to push green aggro you could just break singleton for a few of the better options, including 2-3 Kessig Prowler in the 1cc spot.
- I'm considering whether to replace Flametongue Kavu with Smoldering Werewolf. The Kavu is such a no brainer pick, requires almost no effort to get a 2 for 1, and its value doesn't really change mid-draft based on what you've already picked. I suppose this thinking is part of my evolution on lowering the power of removal in my cube.
Bacchus, your list currently has five "aggro" creatures at 1cmc in black; you're pretty clearly supporting that as an aggro color at 360. It's actually incredibly easy to match that in green:
Furthermore, there's no need to assume that green is a "Jackal Pup" style aggro deck. You can/should still use mana dorks in aggressive decks, since a curve of Elf-whatever-Blastoderm is often WAY better than Jackal Pup-2 drop-3drop.
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Cutting FTK for this new guy seems totally reasonable and can easily make for a great limited setting.
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edit: there's also the landfall dude from BFZ, which is also totally reasonable but below my top five.
Also, like... can you imagine a world where you cast a Strangleroot Geist for RR or something. The card is just absurd, but underrated since people think green can't aggro.
I was more commenting on the general opinion that it seems hard to support (and more particularly n00b's comment); my lack of green aggro isn't because I've tried and given up, I've just never tried to support it in the first place. It's more of an aside to this thread, but I've sometimes considered dynamic 'big switches' where I cut something almost completely from a color and have it do something else. Like cutting a lot of black aggro and focussing more on black control or more defined graveyard value engines, making green an aggro colour and make ramp decks rely on big artifacts etc. Might be more interesting than just some incremental upgrades to cards.
I think the fact that Smoldering Werewolf has a reverse side is also relevant when comparing it to FTK and other options. Sure, six mana is a lot, but it is definitely a part of the card.
And to honour an old tradition when discussing pingers: Let's talk 1-toughness statistics. There are a lot of 1-toughness cards in most cubes. I checked Bacchus, since he was the most recent poster, and came up with 51% of creatures with CMC 3 or less. All in all, this is a card I really like. It might be what finally moves me into double faced cards.
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Don't forget Mtenda Lion. Mirage for the win 1996 forever!
About Curious Homunculus / Voracious Reader, I feel like I saw one person mention the possibility of this being a useful card in a more BUG style graveyard synergy deck, since you don't need to actually cast all of those spells to transform it. Granted, it does not have specific direct synergies with graveyard decks, other than providing a small amount of ramp and a decent, cheap body on the transformed side. Also, you can possibly get away with having fewer instant/sorceries in that type of deck.
Anyone else think there are enough real possibilities on that end?
About Curious Homunculus / Voracious Reader, I feel like I saw one person mention the possibility of this being a useful card in a more BUG style graveyard synergy deck, since you don't need to actually cast all of those spells to transform it. Granted, it does not have specific direct synergies with graveyard decks, other than providing a small amount of ramp and a decent, cheap body on the transformed side. Also, you can possibly get away with having fewer instant/sorceries in that type of deck.
Anyone else think there are enough real possibilities on that end?
Playing as a straightforward blue Werebear instead of big brother to Delver is certainly possible, but seems pretty suboptimal. Self-mill decks are also pretty unusual in these parts compared with UR tempo.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
About Curious Homunculus / Voracious Reader, I feel like I saw one person mention the possibility of this being a useful card in a more BUG style graveyard synergy deck, since you don't need to actually cast all of those spells to transform it. Granted, it does not have specific direct synergies with graveyard decks, other than providing a small amount of ramp and a decent, cheap body on the transformed side. Also, you can possibly get away with having fewer instant/sorceries in that type of deck.
Anyone else think there are enough real possibilities on that end?
So it's a Werebear or Moldgraf Scavenger with the worst worst-case scenario? Still meh.
So, a decent discard spell that becomes a less colour-intensive Hymn to Tourach with Delirium and a green update to Corpse Churn. Both worth consideration, although I know Delirium makes me overvalue cards. However, putting dredge back in green might be worth thinking of with the latter.
So, a decent discard spell that becomes a less colour-intensive Hymn to Tourach with Delirium and a green update to Corpse Churn. Both worth consideration, although I know Delirium makes me overvalue cards. However, putting dredge back in green might be worth thinking of with the latter.
As has probably been said before, Delirium's are too difficult to be treated as more than functional flavor text outside of formats that actively support them.
Grapple, on the other hand, seems solid (especially as an Instant). If I were supporting self-mill, I'd snap include it.
If you keep a two land + Grapple hand, you're 92% likely to hit your third land drop on the play and 96% on the draw (including your 1 or 2 draw steps, not just off the resolution of Grapple which you might not cast at all if you don't need the land). Considering it can ALSO be a late-game Regrowth, that's pretty freaking sweet.
Though, as keenly mentioned above, Evolution Charm is 100% to hit that land drop and has the same Regrowth upside. Hmm. Obviously some extra mill is valuable, but I had enough whiffs while trying to cast a "blind" (no creatures in the yard, or at least nothing I really wanted to return) Corpse Churn in BFZ limited that I'm not too impressed by using it as a one-shot Duskwatch Recruiter activation when I need some creature action in early or mid-game.
I mean, it kind of fills a similar role to Werebear, which a lot of people run - how often are you attacking with your 1/1 werebear? Ulvenwald Captive blocks marginally better and turns into a bigger dude with the downside that accelerating the transformation is harder. Not sure what I think, especially as I only just added Werebear and have yet to cube with it. In a dedicated graveyard deck, how quickly does the Werebear 'turn on'?
I also can't imagine a UB, UG, or UW deck that wants the Homunculus.
re: Pyromancer comparision -- YP is a 2/1 to start, and if you ever cast a spell while he's in play you get three power across two bodies for your 2-drop, which is absurd. It's not much with exactly five spells, but at 7ish or more it's a totally fine option.
I'm torn on Smoldering Werewolf though. I may be undervaluing the ping or overvaluing the flip side.
My 720 Peasant Cube
He's definitely great and makes me reconsider green aggro as an archetype.
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
Saying that, the more I think about it, the better this guy seems. I had to make a concentrated effort recently to cut down on X/1s because pingers and dividable burn were doing too much. It probably depends on your environment, but the thought's growing on me.
Seconded, basically. It's the eternal struggle: Trying to find those gems of cards that are strong enough for our formats, despite being designed for retail limited.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
Yeah 10 instants and sorceries still leaves you with a creature light deck, and there are still artifacts and enchantments that eat a handful of slots.I may be able to remember drafting a 10 creature deck recently (last 6-8 months), but it was trash. Meanwhile, a 2/1 at 2 mana is a card, while a 1/1 two mana is not.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Smoldering Werewolf looks pretty decent and worth a test, but I'm not sure what card I'd cut for it. I don't really want more red 4drops so I'd need to cut one of them but I don't know which.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
- If you really want to push green aggro you could just break singleton for a few of the better options, including 2-3 Kessig Prowler in the 1cc spot.
- I'm considering whether to replace Flametongue Kavu with Smoldering Werewolf. The Kavu is such a no brainer pick, requires almost no effort to get a 2 for 1, and its value doesn't really change mid-draft based on what you've already picked. I suppose this thinking is part of my evolution on lowering the power of removal in my cube.
(somewhere down the list are Tattermunge Maniac, Nettle Sentinel, the sac-a-land guys, Basking Rootwalla or Twinblade Slasher, and probably never ever ever the ones you lose if you have less life)
Furthermore, there's no need to assume that green is a "Jackal Pup" style aggro deck. You can/should still use mana dorks in aggressive decks, since a curve of Elf-whatever-Blastoderm is often WAY better than Jackal Pup-2 drop-3drop.
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Cutting FTK for this new guy seems totally reasonable and can easily make for a great limited setting.
--
edit: there's also the landfall dude from BFZ, which is also totally reasonable but below my top five.
And to honour an old tradition when discussing pingers: Let's talk 1-toughness statistics. There are a lot of 1-toughness cards in most cubes. I checked Bacchus, since he was the most recent poster, and came up with 51% of creatures with CMC 3 or less. All in all, this is a card I really like. It might be what finally moves me into double faced cards.
---
Don't forget Mtenda Lion. Mirage for the win 1996 forever!
---
I just saw the spoiled kitten. Aaawwwwh.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Anyone else think there are enough real possibilities on that end?
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Playing as a straightforward blue Werebear instead of big brother to Delver is certainly possible, but seems pretty suboptimal. Self-mill decks are also pretty unusual in these parts compared with UR tempo.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
So it's a Werebear or Moldgraf Scavenger with the worst worst-case scenario? Still meh.
So, a decent discard spell that becomes a less colour-intensive Hymn to Tourach with Delirium and a green update to Corpse Churn. Both worth consideration, although I know Delirium makes me overvalue cards. However, putting dredge back in green might be worth thinking of with the latter.
As has probably been said before, Delirium's are too difficult to be treated as more than functional flavor text outside of formats that actively support them.
Grapple, on the other hand, seems solid (especially as an Instant). If I were supporting self-mill, I'd snap include it.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
I really like Evolution Charm, and this looks like a trade of its least-used mode for archetype support.
The biggest question is whether I can get enough incidental graveyard support for Grapple to reliably hit a land when needed.
Though, as keenly mentioned above, Evolution Charm is 100% to hit that land drop and has the same Regrowth upside. Hmm. Obviously some extra mill is valuable, but I had enough whiffs while trying to cast a "blind" (no creatures in the yard, or at least nothing I really wanted to return) Corpse Churn in BFZ limited that I'm not too impressed by using it as a one-shot Duskwatch Recruiter activation when I need some creature action in early or mid-game.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
CubeTutor
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