I think it's fine to reserve a 4 ranking to only cards that are truly OP, not cards that show in a majority of lists because of a lack of options. For aggressive black two drops, peasant doesn't have that Dark Confidant level card. The best we can do is Dauthi Horror right now.
I'm not personally near as high on the 2/1 flyers as it seems like a lot of others on this forum are (in both black and blue). I'd rather have a card like Nezumi Graverobber that can be aggressive, but also has utility than something like Wasp of the Bitter End for example. Because of this, I think my ranking might be a bit controversial.
4
None
3
Dauthi Horror (basically unblockable)
Gifted Aetherborn (great in all aggro and midrange decks, sometimes even shows up in control)
Heir of Falkenrath (helps to fuel graveyard shenanigans, and hits really hard)
Nezumi Graverobber (insane when he flips early, answers graveyard shenanigans, reanimation support)
2
Fledgling Djinn (two power flyer, meh)
Thrill-Kill Assassin (I run this guy over the two power flyers as well, I just find him more interesting)
Olivia's Bloodsworn (two power flyer, meh)
Vampire Interloper (two power flyer, meh)
Wasp of the Bitter End (two power flyer, meh, although it is the best option)
1
Blood-Chin Rager (aggro filler for larger cubes)
Dauthi Slayer (basically unblockable, but BB for him is rough when there's so many other similar options)
Nezumi Cutthroat (aggro filler for larger cubes)
Kitesail Freebooter (interesting disruption creature, i'd rank it with the other aggro dudes because of the evasion)
No reason to cube (these cards are all either extremely outclassed or just terrible)
Duskhunter Bat
Foul Imp
Skulking Ghost
After reading your post, I went back and read the first page to reconfirm how it was presented. It does call out power specifically as opposed to being what the likelihood of being included is. Which makes sense, given that some of the most powerful cards are excluded from most cubes. Same with the likes of Mire Boa. Excluded from some (most?) cubes for reasons other than their power level (if it lost swampwalk I'm sure many more of us would cube it). There are also a bunch of cards classified as 'niche' that are rarely likely to see play in cubes, but just because no-one currently cubes it doesn't invalidate as an option to fill a specific role if that is what you are looking for.
I think the descriptions help with addressing some of the 'likelihood of inclusion' aspects. One of the questions that gets asked frequently by cube managers new to peasant seems to be 'Why do the majority of you cube card X? Why do so few of you cube card Y?' I think the descriptions attached to the cards, not the classification, help answer those types of questions. Mire Boa is a good card, but some people don't like random hosing. (The front page does call out that landwalk and protection are generally discounted from power discussions given consensus, unless we just don't get anything else like that card).
So in comparison to the average cube; that highlights which cards people are playing. This project helps tell people WHY those cards might get played, or why you might consider alternatives.
So after all that, is Diregraf Ghoul a powerful enough card for 4 status? Probably not.
I'm a bit back and forth on this, but at the moment I don't think "clearly the best card for role X in colour Y" should by itself give a four. I think this is very clear if you think of silly examples like Hornet Sting.
But I also don't think a card must be good in all archetypes to earn a 4. If it does one job, but does it extremely well, that should be enough (provided it is a job worth doing).
I like the "lower your cubes power level by excluding it". Could we also think about it in terms of P1P1? I think a 4 should be the cards you are happy to first pick, and you don't really think that much about it either, unless there is another 4 in the pack.
The problem with using P1P1 is that draft strategy is closely, but not directly related to the absolute power-level of the cards. There are other factors as well. I think it can be an indicator, but we shouldn't use it as the sole measure, otherwise a card like Reflector Mage gets shafted even though it would be really hard to argue that a cube without Reflector Mage is not less powerful.
The Limited Resources guys use phrases like "pulls you into a colour" as a measure of strength. That could also be something to think about. The 4s are strong enough that you consider switching over when you see it pack 2 pick 1.
Might be less relevant in Cube than in retail limited, since the power level is flatter in Cube, so you don't gain as much by including a bomb. On the other hand, the playable count is also higher, so the risk of being punished with too few playables by jumping colours is also lower.
It also might not be correct in terms of cards like lightning bolt. Hm.
Didn't realise it had been a month since looking at this thread. The original posts weren't up to date, so I was spending my time updating it. Still a handful of pages behind.
I don't think there is a need to dwell on the classifications / rankings too much here, beyond what I've mentioned in my most recent post. Classification based primarily on power level, with descriptions covering off the reason to include them.
While I'm updating, here is a small group of cards I'd looked at a while ago that fill a similar role. Black 2-drops that are 'big with a drawback'. I didn't include a few specific cards that would be very archetype specific, such as Dhund Operative. Maybe Battle Brawler doesn't really fit here, but we'll throw him in for comparisons sake. There are a few I wouldn't be too surprised to see, but I probably wouldn't notice if a cube had none of them.
How would you classify them? And once you've established that, what other factors in a cube would make you bump something up the list?
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These cards are among the top cards at providing an important effect and/or supporting a popular archetype. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
I feel like a lot of these has to be played with in order to evaluate exactly how big the drawback is. None of these seem to hot, and while it would be delicious to play an off-centered white bordered chronicles version, I can't see playing Erg Raiders when Shambling Ghoul is available.
1
Embraal Bruiser
Pale Rider of Trostad
Wanted Scoundrels (rated on page 77, in my view at least, but not on front page yet)
I agree Erg Raiders should be dropped to 1, maybe even 0, particularly when I look at the existing description. It used to be in my cube, but with Shambling Ghoul now in existence there doesn't seem to be a lot to draw you into cubing it. It CAN block the turn it comes down, but outside of that window, Shambling Ghoul doesn't punish you if your opponent has a Pacifism or a solid defence. Maybe still a 1, I suppose you might cube it to give black aggro a card that no other deck wants.
I think Shambling Ghoul still sits at 2. Here is the current description. "It doesn't require anything in the way of support, but isn't particularly exciting. If you are aggro, there are better aggro options. If you want a defensive creature, there are better options. But it does have the versatility of being able to slot into any deck." It's a little more filler than a role player, but still seems ok if you are just looking for a flexible 2-drop. Where i0 thinks it an upper 1, I think it's a lower 2. I suppose I see it as being fine to cube, but not only to fill a specific niche.
I never tested Wanted Scoundrels, but I'm pretty sceptical about how good it is. Current description. "I think some people tested this? My thoughts: 4/3 for 2 is obviously an excellent rate and is great if this doesn't die. However, 3 toughness won't be too hard to take down in combat, and your opponent might be able to cast removal and follow up with another spell, providing them tempo advantage. Even if you get in for 8 damage, if you let your opponent accelerate by 2 mana on turns 4-5, it probably lets them recover. You might give it more consideration if you have a cube light on removal and heavy on combat tricks, and it weirdly gets better if you cube more exile / lock down removal."
I don't think I updated the description because there weren't any comments at the time.
Wrweched Anurid vs. Blind Creeper is the most obvious comparison as 3/3's for 2cmc. i0, what puts Wretched Anurid in a lower slot for you? The chance of just dying if there are no reasonable attacks / blocks? I'e definitely cubed Blind Creeper, and sometimes timing of playing spells was awkward. I think I cubed Wretched Anurid for a while, but I'm pretty sure I cubed Ebon Drake which is similar. It's been a while since playing them, so I don't really recall specifics. I can see scenarios where Anurid is better, as you can maintain pressure without fear of your creature becoming a fragile 2/2 (or being affected by opponents instants) but I'm sure there are also games where I lost several points of life to Ebon Drake, where Anurid probably would have been similar.
In general the grading has been too friendly to combat tricks, probably. I couldn't imagine running 2 mana +2/+2 with minor upside, but if you did it'd be pretty niche (1).
Such is the nature of such a long project, some of the early cards get outclassed and the comparison isn't always noticed when the flashy new version comes out. Aim High at 1 seems ok, and certainly no reason to cube Savage Surge (except in a pretty weird cube).
Probably early in the piece, I probably leaned too heavily on a 'it isn't strictly worse than something else so it is probably fine' mindset, which probably explained the '2' at the time.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These cards are among the top cards at providing an important effect and/or supporting a popular archetype.2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal,aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Grasping Scoundrel - 2 Description - It sits just below most of the other 2 power creatures for B options, though not by much. Other options might have better upsides that aggro decks may care about a little more (2nd point of toughness, bestow), but this can block and doesn't have life loss as a drawback in stall situations. Anchors - Aggro Supports -
Dusk Legion Zealot - 1 Description - It is somewhat 'filler', but it might be something you want for your control decks to put down a roadblock. Anchors - Supports - Control
Oathsworn Vampire - 1 Description - Clearly a payoff for a life gain deck, and the only reason to cube it is if you give that archetype a bit of support. Still somewhat slow by virtue of entering the battlefield tapped. Anchors - Life Gain Matters Supports -
Ravenous Chupacabra - 4 Description - Amazing 2 for 1, and one of the most elegant of the 'ETB, kill something' black creatures. It hits more targets than any other version, however the targeting limitations on other versions might be a feature for some cube designers. Anchors - Supports -
Moment of Craving - 1 Description - The only reason to cube it is to seed more incidental life gain for a life gain matters archetype. You are giving up a fair bit of power compared to Disfigure or Doom Blade variants, but it might meet specific cube design goals. In a pinch it can be used to 'gain 4 life' against an incoming creature. Anchors - Supports - Life Gain Matters
Golden Demise - 2 Description - It's a decent sweeper. You probably aren’t playing it in a deck with small creatures to start with, but in the late game once you've got the City's Blessing, reducing your opponents board even if you don't kill anything can allow for an alpha strike. It would be fine in a general control deck, but if you want to support a more dedicated sweeper control deck it should probably be in your cube. Anchors - Sweeper Control Supports -
Kitesail Corsair - 2 Description - It's strictly worse than Skyship Plunderer if you only have room for one 2/1 flyer, but is about on par with Welkin Tern and variants, they can just block different things (these are currently a 3 and should go to 2) Anchors - Supports -
Curious Obsession - 2 Description - Bears comparison to Curiosity. The +1/+1 can help get attacks in that might not otherwise be possible with Curiosity, but Curiosity sticks around when you have no profitable attacks and triggers off non-combat damage. You might cube it to fuel aggro decks, particularly of the evasive variety. Anchors - Supports -
Dusk Charger - A 5/5 for 4 isn't so much upside that it's worth the times that it's just a 3/3.
Pitiless Plunderer - Even if you care about sacrifice AND artifact synergies, it is just too low impact for 4 mana.
Vampire Champion - There just doesn't seem to be a reason to cube it. It can trade against big stuff, but if you are being aggressive it also trades with a number of defending 3-drops. At this cost, Ukud Cobra just seems like a better version.
Deadeye Rig-Hauler - The problem is that this type of effect is best triggered before combat, but you can only use this after combat.
Riverwise Augur - It's at least the equivalent of a 4 mana 2/2, draw a card. Which is a bit less than what you want, and there isn't enough shuffling in peasant to get extra value from shuffling away useless cards.
Siren Reaver - A 3/2 flyer for 3 seems fine, though not exactly exciting, but bad at 4 mana. Latch Seeker gives you similar results.
Spire Winder - A 3/4 flyer for 4 is ok, but this won't be consistently good enough.
Expel from Orazca - Into the Roil is going to give you more consistent upside. Forcing them to recast their 7 drop provides more mana discrepancy, but needing Ascend makes this worse.
Flood of Recollection - Mana intensive and narrow targets. It CAN get you back your best spell and ups your spell count for spells matters triggers, but you probably don’t need to go this deep.
I agree with all of these I think. Moment of Craving could be borderline though, but at least it can be a combat trick when it has no clean targets (unlike Smother variants). And now I see we have Smother at 2...
(And also that Defeat is listed as strictly worse than Smother, when in fact it is strictly worse than Reave Soul).
Moment of Craving at 1 seems fine to me. The incidental lifegain is surprisingly relevant. Sometimes, if you have to, you can even fire it off just to shrink something and "gain" 4 life total. Of course it's worse than the one mana variants, but it's a decent choice if you want multiple of these effects or want to depower.
Yes, presumably Smother can go to 1. Jovian, Defeat is strictly worse than both Smother AND Reave Soul unless I'm missing something, outside of extreme corner cases, or may be a minor difference in 'strictly worse' definitions. There might be the odd card that targets instants instead of sorceries and vice versa, but being instant is an upside in more than 99% of cases.
I'll update the Moment of Craving description a bit based on these comments.
Well Defeat and Smother have completely different restrictions (power versus CMC). Smother is obviously going to play out better, but there's plenty of stuff like Mulldrifter or Acidic Slime or Thieving Magpie which can die to Defeat but not Smother.
Well, I guess the 'unless I'm missing something' clause comes into play... Yep, missed the different restrictions. Will go and fix.
Next lot of Rivals cards.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These cards are among the top cards at providing an important effect and/or supporting a popular archetype. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Jungleborn Pioneer - 1 Description - It's 3 power across 2 bodies for 3 mana, which is ok. Main reason to cube it is to support tokens / go wide in green, with fringe applications for bounce. Anchors - Supports -
Thrashing Brontodon - 2 Description - It's the biggest stats at this cost with a reasonable upside. There are arguments for and against sacrificing it (you can play it on an empty board and still threaten the effect) vs ETB alternatives that stick around after destroying a target (Wickerbough Elder, Recalmation Sage). Anchors - Supports -
Crested Herdcaller - 2 Description - It's 6/6 worth of stats for 5 mana, which isn't super powerful, but fine on its own before you consider synergies with bounce or go wide strategies. Anchors - Supports - Tokens, Bounce
Strength of the Pack - 1 Description - 6 mana is a decent amount, but in the right board state this can add up. If it's only on 1 or 2 creatures, it probably isn't worth it. Best in decks that are likely to build out a board and stall the game, so only consider it if this happens enough in your cube. This assumes you are consciously not cubing Overrun for being too swingy. Anchors - Supports -
Needletooth Raptor - 1 Description - In a control deck, it can serve as a roadblock that can trade with anything up to a Pelakka Wurm, and even if they swing in with a 3/3, you might still be able to kill something else they would rather keep around. However it relies on your opponent attacking into it, and isn't going to help you stabilise against evasive creatures. That said, it is a mini-combo with pingers or Pyrohemia, and the presence of these in your cube is the main reason to consider it. Anchors - Supports -
Charging Tuskodon - 1 Description - There is some upside to be had here, but you probably only want to consider it in a cube with enough combat tricks or ways to consistently give creatures evasion. Anchors - Supports -
See Red - 1 Description - A cube doesn't need too many of these effects, but it can give an aggro deck a way to punch through in the midgame, as well as providing support for a pants theme. You may need toned down removal to really consider it. Anchors - Supports -
Overgrown Armasaur - The base stats are underwhelming, and while you can get saprolings, one of the best ways to generate them (Pestilence or Pyrohemia) kills them. The ability in the majority of board states isn't going to do enough.
Enter the Unknown - This is not worth a card. About the best cast is casting it on a 1-drop so you can accelerate into 4 mana on turn 3, but the average case is significantlly worse.
Fanatical Firebrand - There are ocassions where this will get in for an additional hasty 1 damage, but the flexibility of Mogg Fanatic being able to sacrifice itself even after it has attacked (or becomes otherwise tapped) is better.
Goblin Trailblazer - Unplayable, and move Deranged Whelp as well, on the basis that Ire Shaman is available.
Storm Fleet Swashbuckler - It takes a while to get to Ascend, and in those case this behaves similar to a 4/2 for 2 mana, but one that you can't cast in the early game. Not enough payoff for the set up.
Frilled Deathspitter - For the most part, it is going to trade off and dome your opponent for 2. That isn't quite good enough, and it will rarely do more than that.
Swaggering Corsair - It's conditional to make it an ok creature, and otherwise just bad.
Reckless Rage - It's the only instant deal 4 for 1 mana, but the downsides aren't worth it. You must have another creature to even cast it, and you would need to cube an inordinate amount of enrage or similar mechanics to make it worth it.
From experience, Hardy Veteran might satisfy the oddball condition, but no, it isn't an aggro card.
It probably isn't good enough, but I figure every aggro 2 drop can't have 3 power, and if it has 2 power, what is the other upside? I guess 4 toughness isn't enough.
Needletooth Raptor is strong if you have enogh cards that can trigger it without killing it. Otherwise I do not think it's worth it.
I haven't played it to get a feel for it, and it doesn't help you win the game, and it is clearly telegraphed, but I imagine it is annoying to play against, regardless of whether the opponent has tricks. I guess you would probably play it in decks occasionally even if you didn't have ways to trigger it, but you probably don't want to cube it unless you have at least a few of those triggers.
The problem with a solo raptor is that any sort of evasion turns it into a pretty horrible 4 mana 2/2. It's not even close to a threat in a race, so it's mostly a defensive card, but most aggressive decks have some sort of evasion. Even if they don't, the only removal that triggers his ability are the red damage spells. You're not going to get that many trades which allow you to kill a second creature with the trigger in my experience, because it is only a 2/2 and can't compete with most of the other four drops in the stat department, never mind the five drops. If you can abuse the raptor it can clean out very impressive boardstates very quickly, but if you can't, you're likely stuck scraping the floor below the bottom of the barrel.
Yeah, that makes sense. I'll leave it at 1 and update the description based on your comments.
The rest of Rivals, white, artifacts and multi.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These cards are among the top cards at providing an important effect and/or supporting a popular archetype. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Skymarcher Aspirant - 3 Description - Solid aggro 1-drop. You don't expect the flying to turn on often, but it gives your aggro decks an evasive threat later if you failed to punch through early. Anchors - Supports -
Martyr of Dusk - 1 Description - It supports token decks and a couple of bodies for sacrifice themes, but isn't high on the list. Anchors - Supports - Sacrifice, Tokens
Everdawn Champion - 1 Description - It can block most decent ground pounders, but it isn't going to be able to attack much, and it does still die to burn. It might be annoying to attack into, but probably only worth cubing if you support a pants theme; they might have a random 2/3 they can just block with, but if you make it a 5/5 wtih Elephant Guide or whatever, they are much less likely to have something that can stonewall it. Anchors - Supports - Pants
Moment of Triumph - 1 Description - Well, +2/+2 for one mana is the going rate in white. Probably the only reason to consider this over other versions is to provide more incidental life gain to a life gain matters theme. Anchors - Supports - Life Gain Matters
Legion Lieutenant - 1 Description - There might be just enough playable Vampires that you could throw the tribe a bone. Competing with other gold cards makes that a lot less likely though. Anchors - Vampire tribal Supports -
Stormfleet Sprinter - 2 Description - It hits for 2 every turn including when it comes into play which is fine, especially if you can give it some pants to wear. If you want to consider it a downside, while the haste is unique, you can get mono-blue unblockables instead of using up a gold slot. Anchors - Supports -
Raging Regisaur - 2 Description - It's a fine enough card, though it does compete with similar Gruul midrange beaters. You might weigh this a little higher if you ways to give it deathtouch, or other effects that trigger off dealing damage like Curiosity, or a number of other enrage Dinos. Anchors - Supports -
Famished Paladin - It's fairly low on the totem pole of life gain matters cards. Behaves a bit like a 3/3 defender for 2, which most decks don't want. The best case is a 3/3 with vigilance which is fine but doesn’t seem worth jumping through hoops. Might be worth noting you can go Magical Christmas Land and go infinite with a few combo variations.
Baffling End - The tradeoff compared to similar removal is they get a vanilla 3/3 instead of whathever you exiled, but the targeting restriction makes this a lot worse than other removal.
Gleaming Barrier - If it came with the treasure, it would be a solid blocker while accelerating, but waiting for it to die is not what you want to be doing.
Merfolk Mistbinder - There aren't enough plyable merfolk to make this worth it.
Relentless Raptor - It suits Boros aggro decks and would fit in there just fine, but there are a lot of other options that can fill that role while being more flexible.
Jungle Creeper - It isn't efficient enough. A deck that could take advantage of this would be better served by cubing any number of other graveyard oriented Golgari cards.
I'm not personally near as high on the 2/1 flyers as it seems like a lot of others on this forum are (in both black and blue). I'd rather have a card like Nezumi Graverobber that can be aggressive, but also has utility than something like Wasp of the Bitter End for example. Because of this, I think my ranking might be a bit controversial.
4
None
3
Dauthi Horror (basically unblockable)
Gifted Aetherborn (great in all aggro and midrange decks, sometimes even shows up in control)
Heir of Falkenrath (helps to fuel graveyard shenanigans, and hits really hard)
Nezumi Graverobber (insane when he flips early, answers graveyard shenanigans, reanimation support)
2
Fledgling Djinn (two power flyer, meh)
Thrill-Kill Assassin (I run this guy over the two power flyers as well, I just find him more interesting)
Olivia's Bloodsworn (two power flyer, meh)
Vampire Interloper (two power flyer, meh)
Wasp of the Bitter End (two power flyer, meh, although it is the best option)
1
Blood-Chin Rager (aggro filler for larger cubes)
Dauthi Slayer (basically unblockable, but BB for him is rough when there's so many other similar options)
Nezumi Cutthroat (aggro filler for larger cubes)
Kitesail Freebooter (interesting disruption creature, i'd rank it with the other aggro dudes because of the evasion)
No reason to cube (these cards are all either extremely outclassed or just terrible)
Duskhunter Bat
Foul Imp
Skulking Ghost
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
I think the descriptions help with addressing some of the 'likelihood of inclusion' aspects. One of the questions that gets asked frequently by cube managers new to peasant seems to be 'Why do the majority of you cube card X? Why do so few of you cube card Y?' I think the descriptions attached to the cards, not the classification, help answer those types of questions. Mire Boa is a good card, but some people don't like random hosing. (The front page does call out that landwalk and protection are generally discounted from power discussions given consensus, unless we just don't get anything else like that card).
So in comparison to the average cube; that highlights which cards people are playing. This project helps tell people WHY those cards might get played, or why you might consider alternatives.
So after all that, is Diregraf Ghoul a powerful enough card for 4 status? Probably not.
But I also don't think a card must be good in all archetypes to earn a 4. If it does one job, but does it extremely well, that should be enough (provided it is a job worth doing).
I like the "lower your cubes power level by excluding it". Could we also think about it in terms of P1P1? I think a 4 should be the cards you are happy to first pick, and you don't really think that much about it either, unless there is another 4 in the pack.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Might be less relevant in Cube than in retail limited, since the power level is flatter in Cube, so you don't gain as much by including a bomb. On the other hand, the playable count is also higher, so the risk of being punished with too few playables by jumping colours is also lower.
It also might not be correct in terms of cards like lightning bolt. Hm.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I don't think there is a need to dwell on the classifications / rankings too much here, beyond what I've mentioned in my most recent post. Classification based primarily on power level, with descriptions covering off the reason to include them.
While I'm updating, here is a small group of cards I'd looked at a while ago that fill a similar role. Black 2-drops that are 'big with a drawback'. I didn't include a few specific cards that would be very archetype specific, such as Dhund Operative. Maybe Battle Brawler doesn't really fit here, but we'll throw him in for comparisons sake. There are a few I wouldn't be too surprised to see, but I probably wouldn't notice if a cube had none of them.
How would you classify them? And once you've established that, what other factors in a cube would make you bump something up the list?
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These cards are among the top cards at providing an important effect and/or supporting a popular archetype.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
I feel like a lot of these has to be played with in order to evaluate exactly how big the drawback is. None of these seem to hot, and while it would be delicious to play an off-centered white bordered chronicles version, I can't see playing Erg Raiders when Shambling Ghoul is available.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Anurid/Raiders: 1
Pale Rider: 0
Where do you have Shambling ghoul?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
2 - Playable
Battle Brawler
Blind Creeper
Erg Raiders
Shambling Ghoul
Wretched Anurid
1
Embraal Bruiser
Pale Rider of Trostad
Wanted Scoundrels (rated on page 77, in my view at least, but not on front page yet)
I agree Erg Raiders should be dropped to 1, maybe even 0, particularly when I look at the existing description. It used to be in my cube, but with Shambling Ghoul now in existence there doesn't seem to be a lot to draw you into cubing it. It CAN block the turn it comes down, but outside of that window, Shambling Ghoul doesn't punish you if your opponent has a Pacifism or a solid defence. Maybe still a 1, I suppose you might cube it to give black aggro a card that no other deck wants.
I think Shambling Ghoul still sits at 2. Here is the current description. "It doesn't require anything in the way of support, but isn't particularly exciting. If you are aggro, there are better aggro options. If you want a defensive creature, there are better options. But it does have the versatility of being able to slot into any deck." It's a little more filler than a role player, but still seems ok if you are just looking for a flexible 2-drop. Where i0 thinks it an upper 1, I think it's a lower 2. I suppose I see it as being fine to cube, but not only to fill a specific niche.
I never tested Wanted Scoundrels, but I'm pretty sceptical about how good it is. Current description. "I think some people tested this? My thoughts: 4/3 for 2 is obviously an excellent rate and is great if this doesn't die. However, 3 toughness won't be too hard to take down in combat, and your opponent might be able to cast removal and follow up with another spell, providing them tempo advantage. Even if you get in for 8 damage, if you let your opponent accelerate by 2 mana on turns 4-5, it probably lets them recover. You might give it more consideration if you have a cube light on removal and heavy on combat tricks, and it weirdly gets better if you cube more exile / lock down removal."
I don't think I updated the description because there weren't any comments at the time.
Wrweched Anurid vs. Blind Creeper is the most obvious comparison as 3/3's for 2cmc. i0, what puts Wretched Anurid in a lower slot for you? The chance of just dying if there are no reasonable attacks / blocks? I'e definitely cubed Blind Creeper, and sometimes timing of playing spells was awkward. I think I cubed Wretched Anurid for a while, but I'm pretty sure I cubed Ebon Drake which is similar. It's been a while since playing them, so I don't really recall specifics. I can see scenarios where Anurid is better, as you can maintain pressure without fear of your creature becoming a fragile 2/2 (or being affected by opponents instants) but I'm sure there are also games where I lost several points of life to Ebon Drake, where Anurid probably would have been similar.
I don't have a Peasant cube but I really like this project!
EDIT: Also, oddly, Aim High is rated a 1-Niche while the inferior Savage Surge is correctly listed under 2 mana and rated a 2-Playable.
In general the grading has been too friendly to combat tricks, probably. I couldn't imagine running 2 mana +2/+2 with minor upside, but if you did it'd be pretty niche (1).
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Probably early in the piece, I probably leaned too heavily on a 'it isn't strictly worse than something else so it is probably fine' mindset, which probably explained the '2' at the time.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These cards are among the top cards at providing an important effect and/or supporting a popular archetype.2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal,aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Grasping Scoundrel - 2
Description - It sits just below most of the other 2 power creatures for B options, though not by much. Other options might have better upsides that aggro decks may care about a little more (2nd point of toughness, bestow), but this can block and doesn't have life loss as a drawback in stall situations.
Anchors - Aggro
Supports -
Dusk Legion Zealot - 1
Description - It is somewhat 'filler', but it might be something you want for your control decks to put down a roadblock.
Anchors -
Supports - Control
Oathsworn Vampire - 1
Description - Clearly a payoff for a life gain deck, and the only reason to cube it is if you give that archetype a bit of support. Still somewhat slow by virtue of entering the battlefield tapped.
Anchors - Life Gain Matters
Supports -
Ravenous Chupacabra - 4
Description - Amazing 2 for 1, and one of the most elegant of the 'ETB, kill something' black creatures. It hits more targets than any other version, however the targeting limitations on other versions might be a feature for some cube designers.
Anchors -
Supports -
Moment of Craving - 1
Description - The only reason to cube it is to seed more incidental life gain for a life gain matters archetype. You are giving up a fair bit of power compared to Disfigure or Doom Blade variants, but it might meet specific cube design goals. In a pinch it can be used to 'gain 4 life' against an incoming creature.
Anchors -
Supports - Life Gain Matters
Golden Demise - 2
Description - It's a decent sweeper. You probably aren’t playing it in a deck with small creatures to start with, but in the late game once you've got the City's Blessing, reducing your opponents board even if you don't kill anything can allow for an alpha strike. It would be fine in a general control deck, but if you want to support a more dedicated sweeper control deck it should probably be in your cube.
Anchors - Sweeper Control
Supports -
Kitesail Corsair - 2
Description - It's strictly worse than Skyship Plunderer if you only have room for one 2/1 flyer, but is about on par with Welkin Tern and variants, they can just block different things (these are currently a 3 and should go to 2)
Anchors -
Supports -
Curious Obsession - 2
Description - Bears comparison to Curiosity. The +1/+1 can help get attacks in that might not otherwise be possible with Curiosity, but Curiosity sticks around when you have no profitable attacks and triggers off non-combat damage. You might cube it to fuel aggro decks, particularly of the evasive variety.
Anchors -
Supports -
Mist-Cloaked Herald - Add to Triton Shorestalker.
(And also that Defeat is listed as strictly worse than Smother, when in fact it is strictly worse than Reave Soul).
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I'll update the Moment of Craving description a bit based on these comments.
Next lot of Rivals cards.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These cards are among the top cards at providing an important effect and/or supporting a popular archetype.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Jungleborn Pioneer - 1
Description - It's 3 power across 2 bodies for 3 mana, which is ok. Main reason to cube it is to support tokens / go wide in green, with fringe applications for bounce.
Anchors -
Supports -
Thrashing Brontodon - 2
Description - It's the biggest stats at this cost with a reasonable upside. There are arguments for and against sacrificing it (you can play it on an empty board and still threaten the effect) vs ETB alternatives that stick around after destroying a target (Wickerbough Elder, Recalmation Sage).
Anchors -
Supports -
Crested Herdcaller - 2
Description - It's 6/6 worth of stats for 5 mana, which isn't super powerful, but fine on its own before you consider synergies with bounce or go wide strategies.
Anchors -
Supports - Tokens, Bounce
Strength of the Pack - 1
Description - 6 mana is a decent amount, but in the right board state this can add up. If it's only on 1 or 2 creatures, it probably isn't worth it. Best in decks that are likely to build out a board and stall the game, so only consider it if this happens enough in your cube. This assumes you are consciously not cubing Overrun for being too swingy.
Anchors -
Supports -
Needletooth Raptor - 1
Description - In a control deck, it can serve as a roadblock that can trade with anything up to a Pelakka Wurm, and even if they swing in with a 3/3, you might still be able to kill something else they would rather keep around. However it relies on your opponent attacking into it, and isn't going to help you stabilise against evasive creatures. That said, it is a mini-combo with pingers or Pyrohemia, and the presence of these in your cube is the main reason to consider it.
Anchors -
Supports -
Charging Tuskodon - 1
Description - There is some upside to be had here, but you probably only want to consider it in a cube with enough combat tricks or ways to consistently give creatures evasion.
Anchors -
Supports -
See Red - 1
Description - A cube doesn't need too many of these effects, but it can give an aggro deck a way to punch through in the midgame, as well as providing support for a pants theme. You may need toned down removal to really consider it.
Anchors -
Supports -
The rest of Rivals, white, artifacts and multi.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These cards are among the top cards at providing an important effect and/or supporting a popular archetype.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Skymarcher Aspirant - 3
Description - Solid aggro 1-drop. You don't expect the flying to turn on often, but it gives your aggro decks an evasive threat later if you failed to punch through early.
Anchors -
Supports -
Martyr of Dusk - 1
Description - It supports token decks and a couple of bodies for sacrifice themes, but isn't high on the list.
Anchors -
Supports - Sacrifice, Tokens
Everdawn Champion - 1
Description - It can block most decent ground pounders, but it isn't going to be able to attack much, and it does still die to burn. It might be annoying to attack into, but probably only worth cubing if you support a pants theme; they might have a random 2/3 they can just block with, but if you make it a 5/5 wtih Elephant Guide or whatever, they are much less likely to have something that can stonewall it.
Anchors -
Supports - Pants
Moment of Triumph - 1
Description - Well, +2/+2 for one mana is the going rate in white. Probably the only reason to consider this over other versions is to provide more incidental life gain to a life gain matters theme.
Anchors -
Supports - Life Gain Matters
Legion Lieutenant - 1
Description - There might be just enough playable Vampires that you could throw the tribe a bone. Competing with other gold cards makes that a lot less likely though.
Anchors - Vampire tribal
Supports -
Stormfleet Sprinter - 2
Description - It hits for 2 every turn including when it comes into play which is fine, especially if you can give it some pants to wear. If you want to consider it a downside, while the haste is unique, you can get mono-blue unblockables instead of using up a gold slot.
Anchors -
Supports -
Raging Regisaur - 2
Description - It's a fine enough card, though it does compete with similar Gruul midrange beaters. You might weigh this a little higher if you ways to give it deathtouch, or other effects that trigger off dealing damage like Curiosity, or a number of other enrage Dinos.
Anchors -
Supports -