Yeah Pardic isn't there for suspend, but because it can hit for six or eight or ten damage a turn. It's mana-intensive to get up to that, but it's still easy to imagine it out-racing a Volcanic Dragon.
Is it though?
Besides the fact that a dangerous creature's life expectancy is much lower the turn after it comes out, you'd need 5 red sources to generate more damage than you'd expect out of volcanic dragon by the time volcanic dragon could have dealt 8. More realistically you can get +2 or +4 damage total by its second attack by paying 3 or 4 red each of those turns, but a) the difference between 12 damage and 14 damage isn't crazy and b) you're still dealing with the downsides of no haste and pouring mana into it.
Rage Thrower - Sure, 0. I remember considering it for a depowered synergy project which I didn't finish, and I'm holding on to that, but no reason to play is right for regular cube.
Pardic Dragon - Hmm. I stand by not suspending it the vast majority of the time, but I hadn't considered it on its hard cast merits. Given that, I'm not sure how often I'd want it instead of Volcanic Dragon, but maybe a cube can afford both. I think the haste is more valuable, but I suppose it can trade with the occasional Skysnare Spider / Radiant Archangel etc.
I'm not completely up to date with moving stuff to the front page; the black 6-drops are on page 65 for example. At a glance it looks like a couple of the others might have slipped through the cracks, but we haven't added Ixalan yet. My general approach to adding new sets is to wait until the main set AFTER has come out, and people have had a chance to play with the cards to get a better feel for whether they are good or not. Once I've done the rest of the cards, I'll go back through and look for any anomalies that seem to have been missed somewhere.
Zulaport Cutthroat would be a notable missing card. (Reanimate is also still missing from the black 1cc section, fwiw.) The rest here are either too new or they haven't gotten to those casting costs yet.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Fireblast - 3 Description - There are certainly more efficient versions if for the hard cast mode, but the point is it rarely gets hard cast. Aggro decks love it on critical turns to cast a threat the same turn as removing a blocker, and it isn't unreasonable to get an opponent down to single digits and fire this off alongside another direct damage spell. You can always hard cast it if you have the mana. Some cube owners may not include it as free direct damage is a very powerful effect. It's far from the reason you'd consider it, but it does add lands to your graveyard for threshold / delirium. Anchors - Supports -
Flame Javelin - 1 Description - Probably only worth cubing if you really want to give non-red ramp decks a 6 mana burn spell, and 2RR instant deal 4 isn't totally unreasonable either. Anchors - Supports -
Flame Wave - 1 Description - It's a powerful effect, but the intensive mana costs make the decks it will fit in narrow. It's most likely home is a Gruul ramp / control deck that can consistently ensure there are enough red sources to cast it. If you have the right support for that deck, this might be an include. Anchors - Sweeper control Supports -
Pyrokinesis - 2 Description - Fireblast is the free burn spell of choice, but being able to divide 4 damage without paying mana can be a massive tempo play early in the game or swing combat in the midgame. Anchors - Supports -
Slice and Dice - 3 Description - If you want to support sweeper control as an archetype, this is the red card of choice. Will clear a decent number of creatures, and sometimes you can cycle to get a 2+ for 1 in the right board state. Anchors - Sweeper Control Supports -
Spreading Flames - 1 Description - It's expensive and sometimes you might die with this in your hand. It can have a powerful effect on the board when cast however. Cubing it will depend on the make-up of your cube; if you have the tools for red decks to go long, this might be worth it. If your aggro decks would consistently kill you before you can cast this, it's a trap to cube it. Anchors - Supports -
Thunderous Wrath - 1 Description - The miracle cost is awesome, though it is offset by the fact that the timing can be awkward, and if you draw it in your opening hand it is pretty bad. Anchors - Supports -
I would also put Fiery Fall and Thunderous Wrath to 1, both are fine. Fall is flexible for control decks, wrath has to be in a deck where you're OK zapping your opponent for five but it's a pretty absurd rate as a miracle
I agree with io on his first post. Slice probably isnt a 4, but it's closer to 4 than 2.
Fiery fall is just too much for a murder. Can't ever feel good about having it in my hand once I have 3 mana
Flame javelin has stiff competition (2 more mana than one of a million incinerate variants for 1 more damage? Super duper death ray? Even Chandra's outrage gives it a run for its money sometimes), but I think if I saw it in a midsized list I wouldn't be completely confused. 1?
Spreading Flames to 1. It is something I have in my cube at the moment, but I've had limited time to play this year so I don't think it has had a fair shake. I can see it being too slow, but I like the blowout potential.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Quarry Colossus - 2 Description - It bears comparison with Phyrexian Ingester. This may end up bigger on some occasions, and it is effectively as 2-for-1. The downside comparison is that it doesn't remove a creature critical to the opponents game plan permanently. It's also in a colour that has permanent removal a lot cheaper (unlike blue) so you don't need to reach as far. Anchors - Supports -
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch - 4 Description - One of white's best control-oriented creatures. It locks down an opponents creature every turn, you can change the target each turn, and the vigilance, stats and lockdown ability usually give you a decent opportunity to attack. Excellent top end and a reason to draft a control deck. Anchors - Supports -
Seraph of the Suns - 1 Description - The stats aren't huge for what you pay, but it can block everything (sans some trample damage), and survives a lot of removal. Still vulnreable to aura-based removal and tap down effects, so you might consider it lower if your cube is heavy on those. Anchors - Supports -
Subjugator Angel - 2 Description - It can act as a finisher. It can let you swing in for the win the turn you cast it, but unlike other cards that do only that, it can just be a creature to block with if you are behind, or contribute to an evasive follow up attack. Anchors - Supports -
Urbis Protector - 1 Description - On it's own merits, it isn't great compared to many other flying creatures. The only reason to consider cubing it is if you are heavy on the repeat bounce / flicker. Getting a 4/4 flyer each turn is good, but at 6 mana (plus whatever other investment you need to make) it isn't the most efficient. Anchors - Supports - Bounce / Flicker
Wispweaver Angel - 1 Description - A reasonable option as a sizeable creature that supports your bounce / flicker archetype. You are probably sacrificing a small amount of raw power if you cube this over other 'Angels' but not a significant amount; a regular deck should still find some value to get out of the flicker effect. Anchors - Bounce / Flicker Supports -
Ancestor's Chosen - 4 power first strike isn't something you get often in peasant cube, but it isn't worth 7 mana.
Angel of Renewal - The life gain is negligible comapred to better upsides on similar cheaper flyers like Serra Angel.
Angel of the God-Pharaoh - I can't imagine the cycling makes up for the otherwise better 5 mana options.
Archangel - It's bigger than Serra Angel, but I imagine in most games the 2 mana difference will be more difference than the extra stats.
Auratouched Mage - It's an interesting card, but there are so few auras that could enchant it that you would otherwise cube while resulting in a creature that is worth 6 mana. Armadillo Cloak, Griffin Guide and Elephant Guide seem the best of the the positive playable auras which don't seem worth it; auras that would make this a house are otherwise unplayable.
Zhang Fei, Fierce Warrior - It's a 4 power unblockable which is decent, but at 6 mana, you are often going to be better served with a Serra Angel or equivalent. It's cheaper, can block other flyers while still being able to attack, and even if it isn't unblockable it's stats hold up in combat.
Lairwatch Giant seems pretty bad: 3 toughness 6 drop that basically can't attack.
Serra Angel seems better than Zhang Fei, Fierce Warrior in almost every way: control finishers don't need to be totally unblockable, costing 1 less is a big deal, and blocking fliers is pretty important.
Sentinel is probably a 4, but I would probably drop it to a 3 if we got another strong 6+ drop.
On the Serra Angel / Zhang Fei, Fierce Warrior comparison, I wonder how often flying vs horsemanship makes a difference in most game situations. Flyers get blocked by other flyers / reach, but can block flyers; horsemanship gets through more but can't block flyers. I think it scales; horsemanship might be better at lower costs / power which are more likely to be played in aggro decks (see the Soltari and Dauthi shadow creatures), and flying is better at higher costs when the additional stats means other flyers / reach creatures are less likely to profitably block it. So you are probably right at 'no reason to cube'.
How about Quarry Colossus? It doesn't seem too far away from Phyrexian Ingester, but I've never heard of anyone playing this card or making that comparison (or hearing about it at all). It's probably a little worse as you can't remove a bomb creature permanently, but getting rid of something for 3+ turns still seems solid.
Quarry Colossus, same cmc, "harder to cast" is basically irrelevant. They probably come out to being almost the same size, with a higher ceiling on Phyrexian Ingester. QC has a better worse case scenario, being that there are no creatures on board. QC gets rid of something for probably 3-4 turns, whereas PI gets rid of it forever.
Vedalken Dismisser was always better than it appeared in MM1 limited, and Colossus is a super juiced up version. I think it's worth a 1, maybe even more, though I don't think I've ever cast the card.
Quarry Colossus is also not a great target to cheat out.
Can you explain this? I'm assuming you mean playing it a lot earlier than you otherwise could. In which case, wouldn't your opposing targets be smaller, and therefore make Quarry Colossus potentially larger when than Phyrexian Ingester when it hits the table? I assume you are referring to the fact that you will have less plains and they can get the creature back sooner, but if you are cheating out a 5/6 I assume the opposing early drops aren't going to be too threatening, and it is still a 2-for-1 because they still have to draw it.
I like this about Quarry Colossus. One drawback compared to Oust is that if you oust an early creature, making them draw that creature again can actually be worse than a random draw. Costing 7, it is unlikely that the Giant will have this benefit.
Still glad it was brought up. I think 1 is correct.
I wrote my comments a couple of weeks ago; we raised up one of the other miracle cards recently, so maybe Banishing Stroke is worth considering?
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Feudkiller's Verdict - 2 Description - 10 life is a decent chunk, but you really need to get the Giant to be worth it. It might be occasionally bad against aggressive decks wehre you can't retaliate early, but it can be a decent stabiliser in a control deck. Anchors - Supports -
Spectral Procession - 4 Description - If you pay 4 mana for it, you are getting a very good deal and that isn't hard to achieve. It's unlikely any non-white deck would be willing to pay 6 mana for it, so it is usually considered a white card. Good in most scenarios, but if you play any cards that boost flyers, tokens or other team pump, you should definitely be cubing it. Anchors - Supports - Tokens, Skies, Sacrifice
Triplicate Spirits - 2 Description - It's a decent token creator in it's own right, as it can come down early if you curve out. Not as consistently good as Spectral Procession, but a good additional token creator in white. Anchors - Supports - Tokens, Skies
I second raising Triplicate Spirits to a 2. A couple on curve creatures get you the same discount as Spectral Procession. Never a reason to scoff at 3 power worth of flying for 3-4 mana.
I think Spectral Procession is probably closer to 3 than 4, but I also think most cubes white sections would be stronger if they included it over a lot of other cards. So I'm ok with it going to 4 at the moment.
And raised Triplicate Spirits up to 2 and modified the description to suit.
Besides the fact that a dangerous creature's life expectancy is much lower the turn after it comes out, you'd need 5 red sources to generate more damage than you'd expect out of volcanic dragon by the time volcanic dragon could have dealt 8. More realistically you can get +2 or +4 damage total by its second attack by paying 3 or 4 red each of those turns, but a) the difference between 12 damage and 14 damage isn't crazy and b) you're still dealing with the downsides of no haste and pouring mana into it.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Pardic Dragon - Hmm. I stand by not suspending it the vast majority of the time, but I hadn't considered it on its hard cast merits. Given that, I'm not sure how often I'd want it instead of Volcanic Dragon, but maybe a cube can afford both. I think the haste is more valuable, but I suppose it can trade with the occasional Skysnare Spider / Radiant Archangel etc.
I'm not completely up to date with moving stuff to the front page; the black 6-drops are on page 65 for example. At a glance it looks like a couple of the others might have slipped through the cracks, but we haven't added Ixalan yet. My general approach to adding new sets is to wait until the main set AFTER has come out, and people have had a chance to play with the cards to get a better feel for whether they are good or not. Once I've done the rest of the cards, I'll go back through and look for any anomalies that seem to have been missed somewhere.
Zulaport Cutthroat would be a notable missing card. (Reanimate is also still missing from the black 1cc section, fwiw.) The rest here are either too new or they haven't gotten to those casting costs yet.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Fireblast - 3
Description - There are certainly more efficient versions if for the hard cast mode, but the point is it rarely gets hard cast. Aggro decks love it on critical turns to cast a threat the same turn as removing a blocker, and it isn't unreasonable to get an opponent down to single digits and fire this off alongside another direct damage spell. You can always hard cast it if you have the mana. Some cube owners may not include it as free direct damage is a very powerful effect. It's far from the reason you'd consider it, but it does add lands to your graveyard for threshold / delirium.
Anchors -
Supports -
Flame Javelin - 1
Description - Probably only worth cubing if you really want to give non-red ramp decks a 6 mana burn spell, and 2RR instant deal 4 isn't totally unreasonable either.
Anchors -
Supports -
Flame Wave - 1
Description - It's a powerful effect, but the intensive mana costs make the decks it will fit in narrow. It's most likely home is a Gruul ramp / control deck that can consistently ensure there are enough red sources to cast it. If you have the right support for that deck, this might be an include.
Anchors - Sweeper control
Supports -
Pyrokinesis - 2
Description - Fireblast is the free burn spell of choice, but being able to divide 4 damage without paying mana can be a massive tempo play early in the game or swing combat in the midgame.
Anchors -
Supports -
Slice and Dice - 3
Description - If you want to support sweeper control as an archetype, this is the red card of choice. Will clear a decent number of creatures, and sometimes you can cycle to get a 2+ for 1 in the right board state.
Anchors - Sweeper Control
Supports -
Spreading Flames - 1
Description - It's expensive and sometimes you might die with this in your hand. It can have a powerful effect on the board when cast however. Cubing it will depend on the make-up of your cube; if you have the tools for red decks to go long, this might be worth it. If your aggro decks would consistently kill you before you can cast this, it's a trap to cube it.
Anchors -
Supports -
Thunderous Wrath - 1
Description - The miracle cost is awesome, though it is offset by the fact that the timing can be awkward, and if you draw it in your opening hand it is pretty bad.
Anchors -
Supports -
Slice and Dice might be THE best sweeper at Peasant, easy three
Pyrokinesis is pretty great, i would put it to at least a 2
Spreading Flames is way too expensive for a not particularly great payoff, I can't imagine playing it in a normal list at all
Fiery fall is just too much for a murder. Can't ever feel good about having it in my hand once I have 3 mana
Flame javelin has stiff competition (2 more mana than one of a million incinerate variants for 1 more damage? Super duper death ray? Even Chandra's outrage gives it a run for its money sometimes), but I think if I saw it in a midsized list I wouldn't be completely confused. 1?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Slice and Dice up to 3.
Pyrokinesis up to 2.
Spreading Flames to 1. It is something I have in my cube at the moment, but I've had limited time to play this year so I don't think it has had a fair shake. I can see it being too slow, but I like the blowout potential.
Thunderous Wrath - to 1.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Quarry Colossus - 2
Description - It bears comparison with Phyrexian Ingester. This may end up bigger on some occasions, and it is effectively as 2-for-1. The downside comparison is that it doesn't remove a creature critical to the opponents game plan permanently. It's also in a colour that has permanent removal a lot cheaper (unlike blue) so you don't need to reach as far.
Anchors -
Supports -
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch - 4
Description - One of white's best control-oriented creatures. It locks down an opponents creature every turn, you can change the target each turn, and the vigilance, stats and lockdown ability usually give you a decent opportunity to attack. Excellent top end and a reason to draft a control deck.
Anchors -
Supports -
Seraph of the Suns - 1
Description - The stats aren't huge for what you pay, but it can block everything (sans some trample damage), and survives a lot of removal. Still vulnreable to aura-based removal and tap down effects, so you might consider it lower if your cube is heavy on those.
Anchors -
Supports -
Subjugator Angel - 2
Description - It can act as a finisher. It can let you swing in for the win the turn you cast it, but unlike other cards that do only that, it can just be a creature to block with if you are behind, or contribute to an evasive follow up attack.
Anchors -
Supports -
Urbis Protector - 1
Description - On it's own merits, it isn't great compared to many other flying creatures. The only reason to consider cubing it is if you are heavy on the repeat bounce / flicker. Getting a 4/4 flyer each turn is good, but at 6 mana (plus whatever other investment you need to make) it isn't the most efficient.
Anchors -
Supports - Bounce / Flicker
Wispweaver Angel - 1
Description - A reasonable option as a sizeable creature that supports your bounce / flicker archetype. You are probably sacrificing a small amount of raw power if you cube this over other 'Angels' but not a significant amount; a regular deck should still find some value to get out of the flicker effect.
Anchors - Bounce / Flicker
Supports -
Serra Angel seems better than Zhang Fei, Fierce Warrior in almost every way: control finishers don't need to be totally unblockable, costing 1 less is a big deal, and blocking fliers is pretty important.
Sentinel is probably a 4, but I would probably drop it to a 3 if we got another strong 6+ drop.
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch to 4.
Lairwatch Giant to 0. Optimistic spitballing...
How about Quarry Colossus? It doesn't seem too far away from Phyrexian Ingester, but I've never heard of anyone playing this card or making that comparison (or hearing about it at all). It's probably a little worse as you can't remove a bomb creature permanently, but getting rid of something for 3+ turns still seems solid.
I think i'd still go for PI.
Saying it's a 7mana Nekrataal is inaccurate I think. He kills the thing, whereas QC just super-Oust's it.
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Still glad it was brought up. I think 1 is correct.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I wrote my comments a couple of weeks ago; we raised up one of the other miracle cards recently, so maybe Banishing Stroke is worth considering?
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Feudkiller's Verdict - 2
Description - 10 life is a decent chunk, but you really need to get the Giant to be worth it. It might be occasionally bad against aggressive decks wehre you can't retaliate early, but it can be a decent stabiliser in a control deck.
Anchors -
Supports -
Spectral Procession - 4
Description - If you pay 4 mana for it, you are getting a very good deal and that isn't hard to achieve. It's unlikely any non-white deck would be willing to pay 6 mana for it, so it is usually considered a white card. Good in most scenarios, but if you play any cards that boost flyers, tokens or other team pump, you should definitely be cubing it.
Anchors -
Supports - Tokens, Skies, Sacrifice
Triplicate Spirits - 2
Description - It's a decent token creator in it's own right, as it can come down early if you curve out. Not as consistently good as Spectral Procession, but a good additional token creator in white.
Anchors -
Supports - Tokens, Skies
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
And raised Triplicate Spirits up to 2 and modified the description to suit.