I'm leaning toward Cryptoplasm and one of the big flyers. I would like a tempo-y skies deck to be a thing, but I don't want that to be all that my lower cc blue creatures are good for. I may try out the Sphinx at first and see how it plays.
Keiga, the Tide Star strikes me as being far beyond the other cards. Compared to Mahamoti Djinn, you get one less toughness and a free Control Magic on death. Actually, it's even better because your opponent can't take their guy back with enchantment removal. It's pretty much on curve without the mind steal ability, and the ability is really good.
I agree with valgatiag that the Thrasher and Sphinx look the most interesting/fun of the 3cc lot there. Time Elemental looks like a janky Capsize, and Fleeting Image is worse than Lantern Spirit, which I don't think is that good.
Also, I noticed a few people in this thread run Charmbreaker Devils. How have you found that card? I'm interested in it, but the repeatable recursion seems like it could be really swingy.
I think you're right about Angel of Retribution. Luminate Primordial will fill that role better. The double white shouldn't matter by the time you're at seven and it's a big enough threat with relevant enough abilities that people should want to both ramp into it or reanimate it. Good call on that guy.
And yeah, I do love me a good clone effect. In all seriousness, I think Sakashima's Student is just an all around solid option. It's on the cusp of inclusion in my rare cube and I've had success with it in the MTGO list when it was in there. Gigantoplasm is just an upgraded actual Clone, so I don't feel like that one is overkill. Clone is a staple in most peasant lists. Cryptoplasm may be too many, though. Maybe you're right about Wake Thrasher being the better option.
What do you think about Thousand Winds over Keiga? Winds feels like it fits the curve at a 6 mana 5/6 flyer, but also offers some incentive to morph and spend a little more to get a powerful flip ability.
Charmbreaker Devils is definitely an interesting card. It could be swingy, but I don't think it will always be such a game winner because it's so situational. It could just be a six mana 4/4 dork at times. That probably won't happen often, but it certainly could happen often enough. Seems like when it's good, it's really good and when it's bad it's really bad.
I'm not sure, but I expect if Charmbreaker Devils is going to be bad, it doesn't make your deck. It seems like it would be played only in the deck that cares enough about instants and sorceries, and I could imagine it being very good in that deck. I don't think it would be too difficult to set up a situation where you are getting back removal every turn.
Keiga is surely a no-no. It is a 3 for 1 unless your opponent is fine with you smashing for 5 in the air every turn...
Charmbreaker Devils is very good. In some ways, it is better in the decks that aren't built to exploit it, because by the time you get to 6 mana you will most probably have some relevant spells in the graveyard anyway. If you run it in "any other deck", those spells are StaggershockIncinerate, Terror or similar. If you play it for graveyard value, you could get back Mulch. If you play it in the Kiln Fiend deck, you'd also have a greater chance to get back something less relevant (although it will still trigger your relevantdudes.
I think I will cut it. Not because it is too good, but because it doesn't really do what I want it to do. It still might be too good, but it costs 6, and does nothing if it is answered immediately. And then the return is random, and you still have to pay the cost of whatever you bring back.. I think powerwise it is OK although not quite sure.
Is Archon of Redemptions lifegain what UW skies would want on their big drop? Perhaps in the matchup against even more aggressive ground-based decks, but does it really care a lot about its own life that much?
When Karmic Guide was brought up, my first reaction was to be sad that it had protection from black, since that meant that it wouldn't work with most reanimation spells to get a "2 for 1" from the graveyard. But then I realised that echo wouldnt work too well with that anyway..
I'd rather Archon of Redemption just have lifelink than that gain life ability tacked on. If you're playing your 5-drop in a UW skies deck, you're probably not looking to be playing much else beyond that. I'd rather have Celestial Archon as my skies curve topper. On five he's a solid dude and if I'm flooded he buffs one of my other guys and sticks around if that guy is dealt with. I don't think I'm going to start him in my initial list, but he's on deck, for sure. Something else might not work out or might turn out to be too powerful for this environment.
I've managed to piece together a list for the rest of this potential cube. I'm six artifacts short currently, but man, it's hard to find artifacts that are just solid and not either busted open or terrible. I'm definitely open to opinions here. Anyway, here's what I've got.
I agree about Brago, blinking your whole board every turn seems like a beating. I'm even a little hesitant over Galepowder Mage for his stats / how he compares to Glimmerpoint Stag. I do wish we had something between those cards and Mistmeadow Witch power-wise, though. Spitting Image looks pretty nuts too, and Fleecemane Lion is almost impossible to remove if it goes off.
I'd also be wary of Grave Pact. I feel like it will either do nothing (you don't have triple black / your opponent has lots of weenies / your sacrifice combo isn't set up) or it will completely shut down games.
Black in general has a lot of card advantage engines. I think Underworld Connections in particular is excessive, as it's cheap and hard to remove.
There are only a couple that feel weak: I'm not sure what deck exists that can properly abuse Black Vise, and Chained to the Rocks seems redundant when you have cards like Journey to Nowhere (though the chains are still really good, and obviously better if your straight white removal is depowered).
Orochi Hatchery - It's probably too expensive, but if you can put 2 or 3 tokens onto the battlefield every turn it might be ok. Only if your cube can handle the slow speed. Blade of the Bloodchief - It could be nuts, but at least the +1/+1 counters go on the creature and aren't linked to the equipment, so kill spells can still get rid of a growing target. Supports +1/+1 themes and sacrifice strategies. Journeyer's Kite - Slow but good for control decks, or 3+ colour decks. Cloudstone Curio - Another bounce card, it's probably nuts but you do have to recast them compared to Galepowder Mage. Staff of Domination - Maybe it's a bit 'dumb', but it is mana intensive so it shouldn't be over the top, and the value of each ability should change in different decks depending on what archetypes you support. Grafted Skullcap - Free draws, but a relevant drawback so you need to time it. Teferi's Puzzle Box - I just like this as a fun card. You probably only want to play it though if you support it with Lorescale Coatl and other friends who care about card draws. Angelheart Vial - It demands 7 mana before you are at card parity and gain 2 life, so it might be fine, and if you are on the ropes this isn't likely to save you. Looks like a stabiliser without just shutting down games when it hits play.
I agree about Brago, blinking your whole board every turn seems like a beating. I'm even a little hesitant over Galepowder Mage for his stats / how he compares to Glimmerpoint Stag. I do wish we had something between those cards and Mistmeadow Witch power-wise, though.
Brago can be quite powerful. I ran him in my rare cube for a bit. I want to support a blink archetype in UW, though, and I feel like I want something in actual Azorius to help that besides Momentary Blink itself. Gale Powder Mage is probably fine, but I'd have to make another cut in white to find room for him. And now I'm left w/ an empty slot in Azorius. Any suggestions to fill the Brago spot?
It was also in the rare cube for a bit, but that was quite a long time ago. I remember it being powerful, but not broken and certainly far from par for rare cubes nowadays. I think it's a good card that can go into a power level list like this one to enable fun shenanigans sometimes with retrace. It could be misleading, though, and if it steals games, then it can always be swapped out with something a little less powerful.
Fleecemane Lion is almost impossible to remove if it goes off.
I had reservations about this guy too. I've never played him in anything, but I know he's good. My second option here was Loxodon Hierarch. What do you guys think of him instead?
What suggestions would you have for less powerful replacements? An issue that I personally have is that when I'm looking at these rares for possible inclusion I'm thinking about how it compares to both my powered rare cube and the peasant list. Something like Conquering Manticore is no where close to making the cut in my powered list, so I don't see it as being over powered here. I may be looking at it in the wrong way, though.
This is another one that looked really good, but wasn't close to cutting into the five drops of my powered list, so it felt proper for this type of list. Any replacement suggestions? Kodama of the North Tree? Or is that guy too good as well?
I'd also be wary of Grave Pact. I feel like it will either do nothing (you don't have triple black / your opponent has lots of weenies / your sacrifice combo isn't set up) or it will completely shut down games.
I was iffy on Grave Pact as well, but I wanted something that would be an archetype enabler in black the way that Pox or The Abyss are in more powerful lists. Grave Pact seemed just powerful enough considering how often creatures just die in combat. The combo piece of it would be just an added bonus.
Black in general has a lot of card advantage engines. I think Underworld Connections in particular is excessive, as it's cheap and hard to remove.
I originally had Read the Bones in this slot, but wanted something a bit more powerful (and repeatable) than that. Phyrexian Arena seemed a little too good. Underworld Connections felt ok since it ties up a land each turn if you want the card advantage.
There are only a couple that feel weak: I'm not sure what deck exists that can properly abuse Black Vise, and Chained to the Rocks seems redundant when you have cards like Journey to Nowhere (though the chains are still really good, and obviously better if your straight white removal is depowered).
Black Vise is really good in pretty much any aggro deck, especially the burn based aggro decks. It may actually be too powerful for this list, to be honest. It's done some work in my rare cube, for sure.
Chained to the Rocks is such a unique and fun card. I had also though about Assemble the Legion in this spot, but I didn't want both it and Goblin Trenches in my Boros section. I opted for the cheap removal spell instead.
Orochi Hatchery - It's probably too expensive, but if you can put 2 or 3 tokens onto the battlefield every turn it might be ok. Only if your cube can handle the slow speed. Blade of the Bloodchief - It could be nuts, but at least the +1/+1 counters go on the creature and aren't linked to the equipment, so kill spells can still get rid of a growing target. Supports +1/+1 themes and sacrifice strategies. Journeyer's Kite - Slow but good for control decks, or 3+ colour decks. Cloudstone Curio - Another bounce card, it's probably nuts but you do have to recast them compared to Galepowder Mage. Staff of Domination - Maybe it's a bit 'dumb', but it is mana intensive so it shouldn't be over the top, and the value of each ability should change in different decks depending on what archetypes you support. Grafted Skullcap - Free draws, but a relevant drawback so you need to time it. Teferi's Puzzle Box - I just like this as a fun card. You probably only want to play it though if you support it with Lorescale Coatl and other friends who care about card draws. Angelheart Vial - It demands 7 mana before you are at card parity and gain 2 life, so it might be fine, and if you are on the ropes this isn't likely to save you. Looks like a stabiliser without just shutting down games when it hits play.
Hatchery seems like you'd die waiting for it to do something worthwhile. Like turn four you play it on two counters, then spend your turn five making two 1/1 snakes? I think the activation needs to be much cheaper to make this one good enough.
I wish Blade of the Bloodchief gave the equipped creature a buff in addition to it's dying creature clause. That or the clause was based on something else like damage.
Journeyer's Kite I like. It's slow, but it can be useful. I also thought about Thawing Glaciers, which is also slow, but good in control decks.
Curio is a weird one. I'm not blown away by it, but it does look interesting at least.
Staff of Domination seems like it could be good in both super ramp (if that deck exists here) and control lists. I think it'll go on the short list as well for possible inclusions.
Grafted Skullcap is a card that played forever ago in mono red burn alongside Ensnaring Bridge and Scalding Tongs. Good times. I think the drawback is too much for this to see play outside of something like the mono red deck or some other aggressive strategy. Is something like Coercive Portal just too good?
Puzzle Box could be good, but it's also a gambling card. Sometimes I'm happy to swap my three useless lands for three new cards, but how often is that really happening? And I agree, it's a nice combo piece with things like Lorescale Coatl.
I like Angelheart Vial as well. It's expensive, but it could slowly help the control player get back in the game if the aggro or midrange player durdles too much. Another short lister.
Thank you guys all for offering up your suggestions. I'm getting really excited to actually put this list together with actual cards. Hell, I'm excited to put it up on CubeTutor and faux draft it!
You could run Loxodon Smiter instead of Fleecemane Lion. It's a very good card, but never unfair. Maybe it's too far above the curve though.
As for flyers, I think you'd want to look at cards that would be good in normal limited, but don't even fit most rare cubes, like Emeria Shepherd. Maybe not the best example, but you get the gist. Your powered list is just so far beyond peasant that the comparison isn't really all that helpful.
You could run Loxodon Smiter instead of Fleecemane Lion. It's a very good card, but never unfair. Maybe it's too far above the curve though.
As for flyers, I think you'd want to look at cards that would be good in normal limited, but don't even fit most rare cubes, like Emeria Shepherd. Maybe not the best example, but you get the gist. Your powered list is just so far beyond peasant that the comparison isn't really all that helpful.
Smiter looks good. I've also though about Gavony Township in that slot. After starting this project to update my peasant cube with rares, I think my final goal has changed somewhat. Instead of just a peasant list with a few rares tossed in, I want a cube that's more powerful than peasant, but less powerful than my rare cube. My current peasant cube is my group's secondary cube. We run drafts with it when we're short a few guys and waiting on them to arrive or when we've ran through the entirety of the rare cube and don't want to reshuffle (again). The problem, and the reason why I wanted to take on this project, is that a lot of the guys I play with don't seem to enjoy the peasant list for what it is. We open pack one and I hear, "All these cards suck." It's all in fun and mostly because we went from drafting power to drafting peasant, but I want them to open packs and instead see things like Emeria Angel and Grave Pact and have a desire to play those cards. It may not be as powerful as what we were just doing, but I think it will be just as fun. If you've seen Milo's N00B cube on YouTube or on the CubeTutor home page, that's basically what I'm trying to achieve.
It didn't end up being exactly Peasant+, but I've finished the initial list. Here is the MTGS thread for anyone in this discussion who wants to offer feedback. There's a link to CubeTutor in that thread as well if you want to draft it and see what happens.
I agree with valg in the main thread that white and green already do a pretty good job with support through tokens alone. If you want additional support, though, I'd probably focus on green. Undying and persist creatures work well, and green also has a lot of dudes with token-producing death triggers such as the "penumbra" and "symbiotic" creatures. Lumberknot and Saproling Burst might work? I wonder if Parallel Lives / Doubling Season would be overboard... Sacrifice outlets outside of RB are a bit sparse, and I'm not sure you would want them, but Birthing Pod and Evolutionary Leap are possibilities.
Correct, we've bandied about terms like "Budget Cube" or the like, but there's no real consensus. The idea is that while we're talking about using rares, most of us want to keep the Peasant "feel" in terms of creature/removal power curve and so on. The resulting cube will have more similarities with a Peasant cube than any other common cube type, so it seems natural to discuss it among other Peasant cubers.
I also felt that green would be the correct answer, and some searching confirmed this. It has the most in both minor and major synergies I think, although blue could also work if it gets some more support from Innistrad. I am also looking at having a token theme across WGx, so that will probably mean that green will have token generating cards that will be of interest too.
I had not thought of the symbiotic creatures(Symbiotic Beast, Symbiotic Elf,Symbiotic Wurm) but they look weak, especially when compared to (with?) the Eldrazi Spawn generators, Nest Invader and Kozilek's Predator. The Eldrazi Spawn even come with their own sack outlet, as well as being able to play a role in ramp. Perhaps the Symbiotic Wurm is worthy as a consideration for a fatty that could be of interest to reanimator and ramp strategies, but I doubt it.
I had a look at Birthing Pod. That is certainly a unique effect. How would it behave though? There are a lot of ETB creatures in most cubes, as well as (like we are talking about now), creatures that leavevalue behind when they die. Would pod perhaps just be a value train that is too much to compete with?
In the event that it is fine, what other decks would want it? If there is an artifact archetype somewhere, there may be cards like Enlightened Tutor or Tinker (and even Fabricate?) floating around. What other archetypes can you think of that could benefit from pod or have cards that the "value pod" deck would want?
Just a minor gripe but wouldn't it stop being Peasant if you introduced rares? As it is basically becomes "No Mythics Allowed".
This is something of a controversial topic, and a large subset of the peasant posters here (mainly a lot of the veterans) aren't contributing for that reason.
However, that last bit of verbiage is not particularly accurate, since the people writing here (as far as my skimming is aware) are interested in keeping to the general power level of Peasant. Peasant is a pretty established cube format with a specific feel, but there are deficiencies. Like, we only have a half dozen or so 6+ drops spread across all 5 colors that are very strong. So, for example, people would look through the 6+ drops that exist, and see what cards that could have been an uncommon the same way that trostani's summoner or pelakka wurm is and use them to spackle their cubes together.
Is the "lifegain-matters deck" viable even with rares?
I find that too many of the cards are too bad without the lifegain synergies (Nirkana Assassin, Wall of Limbs) that I fear that it would feel very forced.
Rares gives you the option of including the enchantments that have zero value for all other decks, like Sanguine Bond and Cradle of Vitality. I might want to run a single one of these as a reward card, but no more. I have no interest in having many cards that wheel 100% of the time.
I was thinking about this and I figured that one of the reasons why they don't print anthems lower than rare is probably to avoid them in multiples in drafts/sealed pools. That is an irrelevant concern to singleton cubes..
So power-level wise, these are probably not the worst ways to break rarity..
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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For blue, you really like Clone effects, eh?
Keiga, the Tide Star strikes me as being far beyond the other cards. Compared to Mahamoti Djinn, you get one less toughness and a free Control Magic on death. Actually, it's even better because your opponent can't take their guy back with enchantment removal. It's pretty much on curve without the mind steal ability, and the ability is really good.
I agree with valgatiag that the Thrasher and Sphinx look the most interesting/fun of the 3cc lot there. Time Elemental looks like a janky Capsize, and Fleeting Image is worse than Lantern Spirit, which I don't think is that good.
Also, I noticed a few people in this thread run Charmbreaker Devils. How have you found that card? I'm interested in it, but the repeatable recursion seems like it could be really swingy.
And yeah, I do love me a good clone effect. In all seriousness, I think Sakashima's Student is just an all around solid option. It's on the cusp of inclusion in my rare cube and I've had success with it in the MTGO list when it was in there. Gigantoplasm is just an upgraded actual Clone, so I don't feel like that one is overkill. Clone is a staple in most peasant lists. Cryptoplasm may be too many, though. Maybe you're right about Wake Thrasher being the better option.
What do you think about Thousand Winds over Keiga? Winds feels like it fits the curve at a 6 mana 5/6 flyer, but also offers some incentive to morph and spend a little more to get a powerful flip ability.
Charmbreaker Devils is definitely an interesting card. It could be swingy, but I don't think it will always be such a game winner because it's so situational. It could just be a six mana 4/4 dork at times. That probably won't happen often, but it certainly could happen often enough. Seems like when it's good, it's really good and when it's bad it's really bad.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Charmbreaker Devils is very good. In some ways, it is better in the decks that aren't built to exploit it, because by the time you get to 6 mana you will most probably have some relevant spells in the graveyard anyway. If you run it in "any other deck", those spells are
StaggershockIncinerate, Terror or similar. If you play it for graveyard value, you could get back Mulch. If you play it in the Kiln Fiend deck, you'd also have a greater chance to get back something less relevant (although it will still trigger your relevant dudes.I think I will cut it. Not because it is too good, but because it doesn't really do what I want it to do. It still might be too good, but it costs 6, and does nothing if it is answered immediately. And then the return is random, and you still have to pay the cost of whatever you bring back.. I think powerwise it is OK although not quite sure.
Is Archon of Redemptions lifegain what UW skies would want on their big drop? Perhaps in the matchup against even more aggressive ground-based decks, but does it really care a lot about its own life that much?
When Karmic Guide was brought up, my first reaction was to be sad that it had protection from black, since that meant that it wouldn't work with most reanimation spells to get a "2 for 1" from the graveyard. But then I realised that echo wouldnt work too well with that anyway..
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I've managed to piece together a list for the rest of this potential cube. I'm six artifacts short currently, but man, it's hard to find artifacts that are just solid and not either busted open or terrible. I'm definitely open to opinions here. Anyway, here's what I've got.
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Herald of Torment
1 Xathrid Necromancer
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Liliana's Reaver
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Dark Hatchling
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Underworld Connections
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Grave Pact
1 Death Cloud
1 Decree of Pain
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Gnarled Scarhide
1 Sarcomancy
1 Tormented Hero
1 Vampire Lacerator
1 Reaver Drone
1 Blood Artist
1 Blood Scrivener
1 Dauthi Horror
1 Knight of Infamy
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Thrill-Kill Assassin
1 Vampire Interloper
1 Bone Shredder
1 Crypt Rats
1 Dauthi Marauder
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Liliana's Specter
1 Herald of Torment
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Xathrid Necromancer
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Liliana's Reaver
1 Nekrataal
1 Skinrender
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Sengir Vampire
1 Shriekmaw
1 Dark Hatchling
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Dark Ritual
1 Dismember
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Reanimate
1 Animate Dead
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Go For the Throat
1 Night's Whisper
1 Ultimate Price
1 Curse of Shallow Graves
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Necromancy
1 Underworld Connections
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Diabolic Servitude
1 Grave Pact
1 Pestilence
1 Death Cloud
1 Decree of Pain
1 Stromkirk Noble
1 Zurgo Bellstriker
1 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Ogre Battledriver
1 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Conquering Manticore
1 Rorix Bladewing
1 Molten Vortex
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Char
1 Earthquake
1 Frenzied Goblin
1 Goblin Glory Chaser
1 Jackal Pup
1 Monastery Swiftspear
1 Reckless Waif
1 Stromkirk Noble
1 Zurgo Bellstriker
1 Borderland Marauder
1 Gore-House Chainwalker
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Lightning Mauler
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Plated Geopede
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Torch Fiend
1 War-Name Aspirant
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Acolyte of the Inferno
1 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Fire Imp
1 Hordeling Outburst
1 Goblin Heelcutter
1 Manic Vandal
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Keldon Champion
1 Ogre Battledriver
1 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Seismic Elemental
1 Conquering Manticore
1 Rorix Bladewing
1 Chain Lightning
1 Faithless Looting
1 Firebolt
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Molten Vortex
1 Arc Trail
1 Incinerate
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Lightning Strike
1 Magma Jet
1 Searing Blaze
1 Searing Spear
1 Shrine of Burning Rage
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Arc Lightning
1 Char
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Lust for War
1 Staggershock
1 Stoke the Flames
1 Shower of Coals
1 Slice and Dice
1 Earthquake
1 Fireball
1 Boon Satyr
1 Call of the Herd
1 Ant Queen
1 Creeperhulk
1 Overwhelming Stampede
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Experiment One
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Jungle Lion
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Scythe Leopard
1 Twinblade Slasher
1 Devoted Druid
1 Jade Mage
1 Nest Invader
1 River Boa
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Utopia Tree
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Ainok Survivalist
1 Boon Satyr
1 Borderland Ranger
1 Call of the Herd
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Wolfir Avenger
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Penumbra Spider
1 Phantom Centaur
1 Predator's Howl
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Acidic Slime
1 Ant Queen
1 Conclave Naturalists
1 Creeperhulk
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Great Oak Guardian
1 Skysnare Spider
1 Pelakka Wurm
1 Plated Crusher
1 Rancor
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Explore
1 Naturalize
1 Rampant Growth
1 Regrowth
1 Sylvan Library
1 Cultivate
1 Curse of Predation
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Squirrel Nest
1 Harmonize
1 Centaur Glade
1 Overwhelming Stampede
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Treetop Village
1 Brago, King Eternal
1 Nightveil Specter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Fleecemane Lion
1 Lotleth Troll
1 Spitting Image
1 Sagu Mauler
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Momentary Blink
1 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
1 Brago, King Eternal
1 Baleful Strix
1 Psychatog
1 Far//Away
1 Nightveil Specter
1 Rakdos Cackler
1 Bituminous Blast
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Blightning
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Kird Ape
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Fleecemane Lion
1 Lingering Souls
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Unburial Rites
1 Gerrard's Verdict
1 Catacomb Sifter
1 Putrid Leech
1 Baloth Null
1 Lotleth Troll
1 Spitting Image
1 Trygon Predator
1 Sagu Mauler
1 Aether Mutation
1 Electrolyze
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Fire // Ice
1 Lightning Helix
1 Boros Charm
1 Goblin Trenches
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Dromar's Charm
1 Sprouting Thrinax
1 Slave of Bolas
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Underground River
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Brushland
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Shivan Reef
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Mana Confluence
1 Mutavault
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Tranquil Cove
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Underground River
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Bloodfell Caves
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Kazandu Refuge
1 Rugged Highlands
1 Brushland
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Graypelt Refuge
1 Blossoming Sands
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Scoured Barrens
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Shivan Reef
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
1 Boros Guildgate
1 City of Brass
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Quicksand
1 Mana Confluence
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Mutavault
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Strip Mine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Rupture Spire
1 Wasteland
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Erratic Portal
1 Staff of Nin
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Triskelion
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Crystal Ball
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Tumble Magnet
1 Erratic Portal
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Serrated Arrows
1 Staff of Nin
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Guardian Idol
1 Mind Stone
1 Sphere of the Suns
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Hedron Archive
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Bonesplitter
1 Sai of the Shinobi
1 Skullclamp
1 Empyrial Plate
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Trusty Machete
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mask of Memory
1 Epochrasite
1 Perilous Myr
1 Bottle Gnomes
1 Juggernaut
1 Pierce Strider
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Triskelion
1 Darksteel Sentinel
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Bane of Bala Ged
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Artisan of Kozilek
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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There are also a lot of crazy efficient flyers in this list (Thunderbreak Regent, Conquering Manticore, Steel Hellkite) that are just way too much. Creeperhulk is also pretty brutal.
I'd also be wary of Grave Pact. I feel like it will either do nothing (you don't have triple black / your opponent has lots of weenies / your sacrifice combo isn't set up) or it will completely shut down games.
Black in general has a lot of card advantage engines. I think Underworld Connections in particular is excessive, as it's cheap and hard to remove.
There are only a couple that feel weak: I'm not sure what deck exists that can properly abuse Black Vise, and Chained to the Rocks seems redundant when you have cards like Journey to Nowhere (though the chains are still really good, and obviously better if your straight white removal is depowered).
Stromkirk Noble, Molten Vortex, and Hall of Triumph look pretty fun.
Orochi Hatchery - It's probably too expensive, but if you can put 2 or 3 tokens onto the battlefield every turn it might be ok. Only if your cube can handle the slow speed.
Blade of the Bloodchief - It could be nuts, but at least the +1/+1 counters go on the creature and aren't linked to the equipment, so kill spells can still get rid of a growing target. Supports +1/+1 themes and sacrifice strategies.
Journeyer's Kite - Slow but good for control decks, or 3+ colour decks.
Cloudstone Curio - Another bounce card, it's probably nuts but you do have to recast them compared to Galepowder Mage.
Staff of Domination - Maybe it's a bit 'dumb', but it is mana intensive so it shouldn't be over the top, and the value of each ability should change in different decks depending on what archetypes you support.
Grafted Skullcap - Free draws, but a relevant drawback so you need to time it.
Teferi's Puzzle Box - I just like this as a fun card. You probably only want to play it though if you support it with Lorescale Coatl and other friends who care about card draws.
Angelheart Vial - It demands 7 mana before you are at card parity and gain 2 life, so it might be fine, and if you are on the ropes this isn't likely to save you. Looks like a stabiliser without just shutting down games when it hits play.
Brago can be quite powerful. I ran him in my rare cube for a bit. I want to support a blink archetype in UW, though, and I feel like I want something in actual Azorius to help that besides Momentary Blink itself. Gale Powder Mage is probably fine, but I'd have to make another cut in white to find room for him. And now I'm left w/ an empty slot in Azorius. Any suggestions to fill the Brago spot?
It was also in the rare cube for a bit, but that was quite a long time ago. I remember it being powerful, but not broken and certainly far from par for rare cubes nowadays. I think it's a good card that can go into a power level list like this one to enable fun shenanigans sometimes with retrace. It could be misleading, though, and if it steals games, then it can always be swapped out with something a little less powerful.
I had reservations about this guy too. I've never played him in anything, but I know he's good. My second option here was Loxodon Hierarch. What do you guys think of him instead?
What suggestions would you have for less powerful replacements? An issue that I personally have is that when I'm looking at these rares for possible inclusion I'm thinking about how it compares to both my powered rare cube and the peasant list. Something like Conquering Manticore is no where close to making the cut in my powered list, so I don't see it as being over powered here. I may be looking at it in the wrong way, though.
This is another one that looked really good, but wasn't close to cutting into the five drops of my powered list, so it felt proper for this type of list. Any replacement suggestions? Kodama of the North Tree? Or is that guy too good as well?
I was iffy on Grave Pact as well, but I wanted something that would be an archetype enabler in black the way that Pox or The Abyss are in more powerful lists. Grave Pact seemed just powerful enough considering how often creatures just die in combat. The combo piece of it would be just an added bonus.
I originally had Read the Bones in this slot, but wanted something a bit more powerful (and repeatable) than that. Phyrexian Arena seemed a little too good. Underworld Connections felt ok since it ties up a land each turn if you want the card advantage.
Black Vise is really good in pretty much any aggro deck, especially the burn based aggro decks. It may actually be too powerful for this list, to be honest. It's done some work in my rare cube, for sure.
Chained to the Rocks is such a unique and fun card. I had also though about Assemble the Legion in this spot, but I didn't want both it and Goblin Trenches in my Boros section. I opted for the cheap removal spell instead.
Hatchery seems like you'd die waiting for it to do something worthwhile. Like turn four you play it on two counters, then spend your turn five making two 1/1 snakes? I think the activation needs to be much cheaper to make this one good enough.
I wish Blade of the Bloodchief gave the equipped creature a buff in addition to it's dying creature clause. That or the clause was based on something else like damage.
Journeyer's Kite I like. It's slow, but it can be useful. I also thought about Thawing Glaciers, which is also slow, but good in control decks.
Curio is a weird one. I'm not blown away by it, but it does look interesting at least.
Staff of Domination seems like it could be good in both super ramp (if that deck exists here) and control lists. I think it'll go on the short list as well for possible inclusions.
Grafted Skullcap is a card that played forever ago in mono red burn alongside Ensnaring Bridge and Scalding Tongs. Good times. I think the drawback is too much for this to see play outside of something like the mono red deck or some other aggressive strategy. Is something like Coercive Portal just too good?
Puzzle Box could be good, but it's also a gambling card. Sometimes I'm happy to swap my three useless lands for three new cards, but how often is that really happening? And I agree, it's a nice combo piece with things like Lorescale Coatl.
I like Angelheart Vial as well. It's expensive, but it could slowly help the control player get back in the game if the aggro or midrange player durdles too much. Another short lister.
Thank you guys all for offering up your suggestions. I'm getting really excited to actually put this list together with actual cards. Hell, I'm excited to put it up on CubeTutor and faux draft it!
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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As for flyers, I think you'd want to look at cards that would be good in normal limited, but don't even fit most rare cubes, like Emeria Shepherd. Maybe not the best example, but you get the gist. Your powered list is just so far beyond peasant that the comparison isn't really all that helpful.
Smiter looks good. I've also though about Gavony Township in that slot. After starting this project to update my peasant cube with rares, I think my final goal has changed somewhat. Instead of just a peasant list with a few rares tossed in, I want a cube that's more powerful than peasant, but less powerful than my rare cube. My current peasant cube is my group's secondary cube. We run drafts with it when we're short a few guys and waiting on them to arrive or when we've ran through the entirety of the rare cube and don't want to reshuffle (again). The problem, and the reason why I wanted to take on this project, is that a lot of the guys I play with don't seem to enjoy the peasant list for what it is. We open pack one and I hear, "All these cards suck." It's all in fun and mostly because we went from drafting power to drafting peasant, but I want them to open packs and instead see things like Emeria Angel and Grave Pact and have a desire to play those cards. It may not be as powerful as what we were just doing, but I think it will be just as fun. If you've seen Milo's N00B cube on YouTube or on the CubeTutor home page, that's basically what I'm trying to achieve.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Stuff like Reef Worm is probably going to be too much..?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Commander: Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB)
Legacy: Burn (R)
Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
My cube discussion thread
I had not thought of the symbiotic creatures(Symbiotic Beast, Symbiotic Elf,Symbiotic Wurm) but they look weak, especially when compared to (with?) the Eldrazi Spawn generators, Nest Invader and Kozilek's Predator. The Eldrazi Spawn even come with their own sack outlet, as well as being able to play a role in ramp. Perhaps the Symbiotic Wurm is worthy as a consideration for a fatty that could be of interest to reanimator and ramp strategies, but I doubt it.
I had a look at Birthing Pod. That is certainly a unique effect. How would it behave though? There are a lot of ETB creatures in most cubes, as well as (like we are talking about now), creatures that leave value behind when they die. Would pod perhaps just be a value train that is too much to compete with?
In the event that it is fine, what other decks would want it? If there is an artifact archetype somewhere, there may be cards like Enlightened Tutor or Tinker (and even Fabricate?) floating around. What other archetypes can you think of that could benefit from pod or have cards that the "value pod" deck would want?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
This is something of a controversial topic, and a large subset of the peasant posters here (mainly a lot of the veterans) aren't contributing for that reason.
However, that last bit of verbiage is not particularly accurate, since the people writing here (as far as my skimming is aware) are interested in keeping to the general power level of Peasant. Peasant is a pretty established cube format with a specific feel, but there are deficiencies. Like, we only have a half dozen or so 6+ drops spread across all 5 colors that are very strong. So, for example, people would look through the 6+ drops that exist, and see what cards that could have been an uncommon the same way that trostani's summoner or pelakka wurm is and use them to spackle their cubes together.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I find that too many of the cards are too bad without the lifegain synergies (Nirkana Assassin, Wall of Limbs) that I fear that it would feel very forced.
Rares gives you the option of including the enchantments that have zero value for all other decks, like Sanguine Bond and Cradle of Vitality. I might want to run a single one of these as a reward card, but no more. I have no interest in having many cards that wheel 100% of the time.
I am not under any circumstances going to cube Archangel of Thune....
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Are there any good anthem effects that are actually peasant?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
So power-level wise, these are probably not the worst ways to break rarity..
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)