Four mana is just an awkward slot for Mind Rot. I don't think the extra mana is worth the 2 life (which also nerfs the original Blightning as a planeswalker killer in regular cubes, here it's pretty lackluster).
I've seen this opinion a few times now, does the extra mana make that much of a difference in people's experiences?
Most definitely. You're correct that it's useful to sequence more plays and get more value from your mana. It really comes down to mana efficiency. All things being equal, I'd rather have the 2B cost over the 3B cost unless there's something to make it worthwhile - it's usually worthwhile if I can translate that mana resource into board advantage. Two life and an exile clause is not board advantage, so it's not worth the 1 extra. Mire's Malice doesn't quite do that, but it compromises with a 6 mana option that does, and it makes the card a bit better than the sum of its parts
It also gives you more options sooner. Yes, it's often incorrect to fire off Mind Rot turn three, but the fact that you have that option, plus every other option in a decision tree that starts at three mana instead of four, makes it an order of magnitude more useful.
Crocanura - usually at least a giant spider for 3 but growth to 3/5 very easy
Jolrael's Centaur - underrated by a lot. Flanking is such a strong mechanic and shroud makes it very good in decks with lower creature count, like UG
Phantom Tiger - its borderline on its own, but as soon as you give it extra toughness with aura or equip its nuts
Simian Grunts - best green 3-drop
Villagers of Estwald - already fine unflipped and if you flip it, its insane value.
Rot Wolf - it either draws cards or is a semi-unblockable 4/2. Becomes insane with any kind of pump and at least weakens the creature it blocks.
Ulvenwald Bear - 4/4 for 3 if you met the condition, which isn to hard. Can also pump another creature.
well, Rot Wolf is probably worse than im currenlty rating it, because potential card draw in green is big. But you might be right, that it just get killed before it deals lethal poison. So nevermind that lol. Im still going to test it.
But I dont like Forcemage, this card never worked for me.
yeah the other 3-drops are conditional, but each condition can easily met if you include them in the right deck. Those are no no-brainer cards you can slam in every pile you just threw together, but much better than the vanilla 3/3. Most of them are better than the 3-drops of other colors as well.
Still defending Jolrael's Centaur for being awesome. If you only run a bunch of creatures, each is important and your opp has no choice but killing even a 2/2. As said, UG control or BG removal.dec, RG midrange all love it. The only real downside is the double G cost, but its worth it.
Flanking is op.
What do you guys think of Zada's Commando versus Rustrazor Butcher? I was thinking of adding the Butcher to my cube, but the Commando has given me pause.
uhm, i dont see what the latest design philosophy and contructed has to do with greens 3-drops. they still have the best stats to manacost effciency compared to the other colors and especially those i mentioned. (2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 4/6)
Recent printigs didnt change that, the other colors might have some more utility attached to it, but after all magic (in paupercubes) is about lifepoints and creature combat, so green is in a very good spot.
at least in my meta, Guardian is far from the best creature. Its half a wall, since its horrible slow on its own and cant be pumped. Its more or less a slightly better Shimmering Glasskite Best creature is Blastoderm, thats 15dmg for 4
Manowar generates tempo, but if there is nothing big on the table already, the effect doesnt matter much. You need a good balance between rough stats and utility in your deck to make it work. And since the removal is so cheap, good stats are very worthwhile , because you just remove the blocker and smash face.
youre right about your conclusion about different perspectives on a creatures power, but my argument wasnt about green having great controlcards but against the statement greens 3-drops are in any form a shallow slot. It definitely is not.
Btw the reason, why we often have different opinions on cards is that I dont play limited at all. So on the one hand you have more experience with fringe or new cards, but on the other hand you misevaluate them for cubemetas, because its a lot different from the limited meta you may have played it in. This is even more the case since you play online where rarities are different to paper and I follow the paper-rules.
That said, the token archetype takes way too many slots for powerlevel oriented cubes which are still the majority i guess and
the standard we compare new cards to. So obv Blastoderm is much worse in your cube, but Guadian is as well because you just get overrun.
True control in pauper is a very problematic archetype, because except black, the format lacks massremoval. There simply is no point filling the cube with mediocre controlcards, when only one player has access to pestilence and crypt rats. Every other player will have to either play aggro-tempo or midrange aggro-control.
My Tier1 cube just reflects what strong singles and therefore archetypes the format has to offer. Also this approach filters the strongest cards to have a more different, more diverse Tier2 cube which heavily suppports said tokensynergies. Its probably the cube a lot of players aiming for, since its synergy based, has toned down removal and plays more "fresh" cards.
That list seems fine aside from a couple oddities. Rot Wolf may as well be a 0/2 wither that gets a pump when it meets another creature for their workout session. Jolrael's Centaur is one of my favorite cards, but it's a bad clock, it's under curve and unlike its cousins Silhana Ledgewalker and Primal Huntbeast, you have no way to boost it. And it still trades with other Coursers. The perks of being removal-proof and unblockable to X/1s don't give me enough utility in my games. Besides, Borderland Ranger and Civic Wayfinder are many, many times better and aren't even on that list
And fair point about Elemental Uprising costing three mana, it doesn't really get any cheaper than the other three options. You can't just toss it on one of your creatures if you want to beat 5/5s or higher. The Lure effect is the best part of the card for me, and with trample you can have your cake (face damage) and eat it too (creature removal). oooooops
Overall I'm positively surprised of this set. It's a small set, that "wasted" a lot of slots on archetype specific cards, but the average powerlevel is high enough, that I'm actually going to include 6 cards from it (5 because of their powerlevel and 1 for archetype support). Some need to prove themself, but that was unexpected.
I wouldn't call this set a waste either. Yeah it's narrowly designed and the colorless-matters stuff probably doesn't have legs. There's at least two cards that should be seriously considered, and then another three to six cards that will be dependent on preferences. People are expecting a revolution or some kind of flood of cards with every set, and that's just not reflective of reality
Elemental Uprising just has haste, no trample. If it had trample as well it would be a cake id also eat Everyone who likes this card should reconsider Wings of Velis Vel as well.
I still have nightmares about this one game UG tempo beats me to death with Jolrael's Centaur and my hand full of removal and unable to block because I only have 1 toughness guys. So maybe Im pretty biased, but well.
Ya I probably was totally out of my mind when I put the wolf on this list. I just reworked my tier2 a bit and stumbled across it. The card draw seemed nuts.
The comment on beint a "waste", I agree with. I may add.. 5 cards?!? Realisticly, 3. Aother solid 5cc in green, upgrading a black combat trick, and another red beater that is good for aggro.
Yeah, that effect is more in between Lure and Provoke. The thing I like about it is that it can be played defensively or aggressively. If you need to punch damage through it will almost certainly eat a blocker or a utility dude for the rest of your team to swing in, or it can represent an honest-to-goodness surprise when you produce a blocker while your team is tapped.
Like Al said, it also has the benefit that lands are inherently much harder to kill at instant speed than creatures, so very little chance of 2-for-1 unless you have Wrecking Ball running around. If they do have a kill spell, it's arguably better to have it aimed at a land than at one of your actual threats, which is a risk when you play a conventional combat trick. You're still up a threat after the exchange
elemental uprising is definitely interesting/cool/cute/spicy but I don't know if I can bring myself to cube what is basically a much worse lightning blast
I think epic confrontation is the closest thing green has to a removal spell
what? on average sporemound will be producing a token every 2.5 turn and is a 3/3 for 5. So Ancient is much better.
(if youre plan is to stall the game)
id run Savage Surge before uprising, its more weak to hard removal, but can protect your creature from damage or toughness based removal. It lacks the "lure" thing, but I dont see this matter a lot.
making up scenarios, eh?
u also could just wait for the attack and block the ogre. using this card on defense will give you better choices most of the time.
and its very easy to play around. its just another bad CC3 removal in green. plain old pump spell seems more flexible and cheaper.
but im happy to hear reports from the prerelease
ok, after talking to the best player of my playgroup (won serveral big tournament across all formats) he tried to convince me that this card might be even tier1 worthy. i have to see this card in action first, though.
Uhhhh... that would still be accomplished by lightning blasting their creature.
I literally said "casting cost aside." But even then, 3 mana isn't much different than 4 for this kind of spell.
Idk you guys. Green got a bad lightning blast. It's cubable I guess.
Edit: Okay, I just realized it is potentially an answer for hexproof and guardian of the guildpact, for those of you who run him. That is worth noting. Still a bad lightning blast.
I also don't think it's quite fair to compare a red burn spell to a green combat trick / removal / whatever this card is. Take green's fight cards, for instance - they're all pretty much strictly worse Lightning Bolts or Doom Blades or Pacifisms or whatever other second-tier removal people play in colors that actually have removal. Maybe the solution is just don't play green removal because it's just worse than other removal, but I don't see a reason why the fact that some colors are best at certain things means that you shouldn't play slightly worse versions of those effects in other colors.
Also, the difference between leaving 3 and 4 mana up isn't insignificant.
Edit: Okay, I just realized it is potentially an answer for hexproof and guardian of the guildpact, for those of you who run him. That is worth noting. Still a bad lightning blast.
so many options. dat value!
srsly, what color combination wants this? only ug lacks decent removal, but still got Snakeform or Narcolepsy.
Kozilek's Pathfinder - cubable. Gives every color an option to run a big threat with a small upside Warden of Geometries - bad. Alhough both abilites are interesting, 3 toughness doesnt make the cut and they dont work togeher either Hedron Crawler - bad. there are myr. Seer's Lantern - bad. its soo sloow Crumbling Vestige - borderline*. it fixes turn1 but only 1turn Holdout Settlement - borderline*. you dont want to tap your creatures. okay in token heavy decks.
White:
Affa Protector - bad. 1 power provides no clock. Dazzling Reflection - bad Awe Strike Expedition Raptor - bad. you need another 2 creatues on board and a 2/2 fly for 5 is uninteresting Isolation Zone - borderline. this oblivion ring is slightly overcosted. Kor Scythemaster - bad. missed opportunity to give us a more interesting CC2 3/1 in white. Kor Sky Climber - borderline. too mana intensive to give it evasion. Still a 3/2 flyer deals some damage. Makindi Aeronaut - bad. functional reprint Mighty Leap - borderline. although white lacks giant growth effects and this one gives evasion as well, there are tons of better combat tricks Ondu War Cleric - bad. ally isnt a tribe thats interesting for cubes. Searing Light - borderline. will hit enough creatures and only costs 1 Shoulder to Shoulder - borderline. gaining 4 stats for 3 on a cantrip is reasonable. Spawnbinder Mage - bad. ally isnt a tribe thats interesting for cubes.
Kozilek's Shrieker - bad.* colorless mana is too big of a restriction in cubes. Kozilek's Translator - boderline. reasonable body for black and provides some ramp Oblivion Strike - bad. no, exiling the target doesnt make up for the high CC and speed. Sky Scourer - bad*. wouldnt trigger often enough. Slaughter Drone - bad.* colorless mana is too big of a restriction in cubes. Unnatural Endurance - borderline. reasonable combat trick. Witness the End - borderline. exiling the cards and some added damage makes this card actually playable. Corpse Churn - borderline. Some kind of weak Impulse with Raise Dead attached. Filters and fills your graveyard for more shenanigans. Tar Snare - bad. disfigure Untamed Hunger - bad. predator's gambit is much better most of the time Vampire Envoy - borderline. only interesting if you want to support black control Zulaport Chainmage - bad. ally isnt a tribe thats interesting for cubes.
Red:
Consuming Sinkhole - bad. go figure Eldrazi Aggressor - bad.* colorless is too big of a restriction in cubes. Maw of Kozilek - bad.* colorless is too big of a restriction in cubes. Reality Hemorrhage - bad. worse than shock and there is no pro:red around. Akoum Flameseeker - bad. ally isnt a tribe thats interesting for cubes. Boulder Salvo - bad. flame slash Brute Strength - bad. trample is unexciting on a trick that doesnt add more toughness. Cinder Hellion - cubable. a very playable 5-drop if you need one. Expedite - bad. not enough impact to warrant a slot Goblin Freerunner - cubable. aggrodecks dont have much of a problem triggering surge Sparkmage's Gambit - cubable. easily a 2:1 or damage push Zada's Commando - cubable. first strike in a color with direct damage is nice. Scion Summoner - borderline. good support for tokentheme and overall a sold card. Stalking Drone - bad.* colorless is too big of a restriction in cubes.
Most definitely. You're correct that it's useful to sequence more plays and get more value from your mana. It really comes down to mana efficiency. All things being equal, I'd rather have the 2B cost over the 3B cost unless there's something to make it worthwhile - it's usually worthwhile if I can translate that mana resource into board advantage. Two life and an exile clause is not board advantage, so it's not worth the 1 extra. Mire's Malice doesn't quite do that, but it compromises with a 6 mana option that does, and it makes the card a bit better than the sum of its parts
It also gives you more options sooner. Yes, it's often incorrect to fire off Mind Rot turn three, but the fact that you have that option, plus every other option in a decision tree that starts at three mana instead of four, makes it an order of magnitude more useful.
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Trusted Forcemage?
Crocanura - usually at least a giant spider for 3 but growth to 3/5 very easy
Jolrael's Centaur - underrated by a lot. Flanking is such a strong mechanic and shroud makes it very good in decks with lower creature count, like UG
Phantom Tiger - its borderline on its own, but as soon as you give it extra toughness with aura or equip its nuts
Simian Grunts - best green 3-drop
Villagers of Estwald - already fine unflipped and if you flip it, its insane value.
Rot Wolf - it either draws cards or is a semi-unblockable 4/2. Becomes insane with any kind of pump and at least weakens the creature it blocks.
Ulvenwald Bear - 4/4 for 3 if you met the condition, which isn to hard. Can also pump another creature.
I would cut Sporemound for Tajuru Pathwarden. You need to activalte landfall twice before its on durve.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
But I dont like Forcemage, this card never worked for me.
yeah the other 3-drops are conditional, but each condition can easily met if you include them in the right deck. Those are no no-brainer cards you can slam in every pile you just threw together, but much better than the vanilla 3/3. Most of them are better than the 3-drops of other colors as well.
Still defending Jolrael's Centaur for being awesome. If you only run a bunch of creatures, each is important and your opp has no choice but killing even a 2/2. As said, UG control or BG removal.dec, RG midrange all love it. The only real downside is the double G cost, but its worth it.
Flanking is op.
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T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Recent printigs didnt change that, the other colors might have some more utility attached to it, but after all magic (in paupercubes) is about lifepoints and creature combat, so green is in a very good spot.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Manowar generates tempo, but if there is nothing big on the table already, the effect doesnt matter much. You need a good balance between rough stats and utility in your deck to make it work. And since the removal is so cheap, good stats are very worthwhile , because you just remove the blocker and smash face.
btw Sporoloth Ancient is better than sporemound for token archetype
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Btw the reason, why we often have different opinions on cards is that I dont play limited at all. So on the one hand you have more experience with fringe or new cards, but on the other hand you misevaluate them for cubemetas, because its a lot different from the limited meta you may have played it in. This is even more the case since you play online where rarities are different to paper and I follow the paper-rules.
That said, the token archetype takes way too many slots for powerlevel oriented cubes which are still the majority i guess and
the standard we compare new cards to. So obv Blastoderm is much worse in your cube, but Guadian is as well because you just get overrun.
True control in pauper is a very problematic archetype, because except black, the format lacks massremoval. There simply is no point filling the cube with mediocre controlcards, when only one player has access to pestilence and crypt rats. Every other player will have to either play aggro-tempo or midrange aggro-control.
My Tier1 cube just reflects what strong singles and therefore archetypes the format has to offer. Also this approach filters the strongest cards to have a more different, more diverse Tier2 cube which heavily suppports said tokensynergies. Its probably the cube a lot of players aiming for, since its synergy based, has toned down removal and plays more "fresh" cards.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
And fair point about Elemental Uprising costing three mana, it doesn't really get any cheaper than the other three options. You can't just toss it on one of your creatures if you want to beat 5/5s or higher. The Lure effect is the best part of the card for me,
and with trample you can have your cake (face damage) and eat it too (creature removal).oooooopsI wouldn't call this set a waste either. Yeah it's narrowly designed and the colorless-matters stuff probably doesn't have legs. There's at least two cards that should be seriously considered, and then another three to six cards that will be dependent on preferences. People are expecting a revolution or some kind of flood of cards with every set, and that's just not reflective of reality
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I still have nightmares about this one game UG tempo beats me to death with Jolrael's Centaur and my hand full of removal and unable to block because I only have 1 toughness guys. So maybe Im pretty biased, but well.
Ya I probably was totally out of my mind when I put the wolf on this list. I just reworked my tier2 a bit and stumbled across it. The card draw seemed nuts.
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Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
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4 cards will go into my tier1 (only 2 from BFZ, only 1! from Origins that might get moved to tier2)
Jwar Isle Avenger, Vampire Envoy, Goblin Freerunner, Tajuru Pathwarden
5 cards will move in tier2. (9 from BFZ, 8 from Origins)
Kozilek's Pathfinder, Cinder Hellion, Sparkmage's Gambit, Zada's Commando, Scion Summoner
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Like Al said, it also has the benefit that lands are inherently much harder to kill at instant speed than creatures, so very little chance of 2-for-1 unless you have Wrecking Ball running around. If they do have a kill spell, it's arguably better to have it aimed at a land than at one of your actual threats, which is a risk when you play a conventional combat trick. You're still up a threat after the exchange
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I think epic confrontation is the closest thing green has to a removal spell
oh my god I can barely even process how awful that card is, basically a 3GG vanilla 4/4
hump why are you trolling us by bringing up dreck like this and rot wolf
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(if youre plan is to stall the game)
id run Savage Surge before uprising, its more weak to hard removal, but can protect your creature from damage or toughness based removal. It lacks the "lure" thing, but I dont see this matter a lot.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
u also could just wait for the attack and block the ogre. using this card on defense will give you better choices most of the time.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
but im happy to hear reports from the prerelease
ok, after talking to the best player of my playgroup (won serveral big tournament across all formats) he tried to convince me that this card might be even tier1 worthy. i have to see this card in action first, though.
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hm ok, thats a situation i hadnt on my screen yet. if they only have 1 blocker ure team can smash through unharmed. hm.
still, its more of a 3 mana sorcery speed diabolic edict than a lighning blast.
very skill intensive card indeed, but my prediction is it will be broken 50% of the time and not doing what you need the other 50%
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I literally said "casting cost aside." But even then, 3 mana isn't much different than 4 for this kind of spell.
Idk you guys. Green got a bad lightning blast. It's cubable I guess.
Edit: Okay, I just realized it is potentially an answer for hexproof and guardian of the guildpact, for those of you who run him. That is worth noting. Still a bad lightning blast.
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Also, the difference between leaving 3 and 4 mana up isn't insignificant.
so many options. dat value!
srsly, what color combination wants this? only ug lacks decent removal, but still got Snakeform or Narcolepsy.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Colorless:
Kozilek's Pathfinder - cubable. Gives every color an option to run a big threat with a small upside
Warden of Geometries - bad. Alhough both abilites are interesting, 3 toughness doesnt make the cut and they dont work togeher either
Hedron Crawler - bad. there are myr.
Seer's Lantern - bad. its soo sloow
Crumbling Vestige - borderline*. it fixes turn1 but only 1turn
Holdout Settlement - borderline*. you dont want to tap your creatures. okay in token heavy decks.
White:
Affa Protector - bad. 1 power provides no clock.
Dazzling Reflection - bad Awe Strike
Expedition Raptor - bad. you need another 2 creatues on board and a 2/2 fly for 5 is uninteresting
Isolation Zone - borderline. this oblivion ring is slightly overcosted.
Kor Scythemaster - bad. missed opportunity to give us a more interesting CC2 3/1 in white.
Kor Sky Climber - borderline. too mana intensive to give it evasion. Still a 3/2 flyer deals some damage.
Makindi Aeronaut - bad. functional reprint
Mighty Leap - borderline. although white lacks giant growth effects and this one gives evasion as well, there are tons of better combat tricks
Ondu War Cleric - bad. ally isnt a tribe thats interesting for cubes.
Searing Light - borderline. will hit enough creatures and only costs 1
Shoulder to Shoulder - borderline. gaining 4 stats for 3 on a cantrip is reasonable.
Spawnbinder Mage - bad. ally isnt a tribe thats interesting for cubes.
Blue:
Abstruse Interference - bad. run force spike instead
Blinding Drone - bad*. colorless mana is too big of a restriction in cubes.
Cultivator Drone - bad. no use for this kind of effect
Gravity Negator - bad* colorless mana is too big of a restriction in cubes.
Slip Through Space - bad. Shadow Rift does the same but better.
Ancient Crab - bad. ancient crap
Comparative Analysis - borderline. but blue has many better drawspells to make this very interesting.
Containment Membrane - borderline. surge makes this one playable
Jwar Isle Avenger - cubable. good tempo with surge and still reasonable costed for 5
Sweep Away - bad. CC3 is just too much for this kind of effect. and its a worse version of Whisk Away
Umara Entangler - borderline. gives some aggro to blue and works well in spells matters decks.
Black:
Kozilek's Shrieker - bad.* colorless mana is too big of a restriction in cubes.
Kozilek's Translator - boderline. reasonable body for black and provides some ramp
Oblivion Strike - bad. no, exiling the target doesnt make up for the high CC and speed.
Sky Scourer - bad*. wouldnt trigger often enough.
Slaughter Drone - bad.* colorless mana is too big of a restriction in cubes.
Unnatural Endurance - borderline. reasonable combat trick.
Witness the End - borderline. exiling the cards and some added damage makes this card actually playable.
Corpse Churn - borderline. Some kind of weak Impulse with Raise Dead attached. Filters and fills your graveyard for more shenanigans.
Tar Snare - bad. disfigure
Untamed Hunger - bad. predator's gambit is much better most of the time
Vampire Envoy - borderline. only interesting if you want to support black control
Zulaport Chainmage - bad. ally isnt a tribe thats interesting for cubes.
Red:
Consuming Sinkhole - bad. go figure
Eldrazi Aggressor - bad.* colorless is too big of a restriction in cubes.
Maw of Kozilek - bad.* colorless is too big of a restriction in cubes.
Reality Hemorrhage - bad. worse than shock and there is no pro:red around.
Akoum Flameseeker - bad. ally isnt a tribe thats interesting for cubes.
Boulder Salvo - bad. flame slash
Brute Strength - bad. trample is unexciting on a trick that doesnt add more toughness.
Cinder Hellion - cubable. a very playable 5-drop if you need one.
Expedite - bad. not enough impact to warrant a slot
Goblin Freerunner - cubable. aggrodecks dont have much of a problem triggering surge
Sparkmage's Gambit - cubable. easily a 2:1 or damage push
Zada's Commando - cubable. first strike in a color with direct damage is nice.
Scion Summoner - borderline. good support for tokentheme and overall a sold card.
Stalking Drone - bad.* colorless is too big of a restriction in cubes.
Green:
Canopy Gorger - bad. yep, its a wurm.
Elemental Uprising - borderline. a pseudoremoval for green which yet has to live up to its expectations.
Lead by Example - borderline. being an instant makes it a reasonable combat trick
Loam Larva - bad.
Natural State - bad.
Netcaster Spider - bad. and boring.
Pulse of Murasa - borderline. getting 6 life and a card can turn the game.
Saddleback Lagac - bad. stats on this thing are bad.
Tajuru Pathwarden - cubable. one of the best green 5-drops. vigilance on a tough body is strong.
Vines of the Recluse - cubable. very good combat trick
* - if you build your cube around it, these cards provide real good value
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t