Gods Willing - Cubable Decent card, but not everyone will need this effect. I like it over Apostle's Blessing for the Scry 1. Observant Alseid - Borderline Could be good enough, really depends how good bestow is. Nibus Naiad - Cubable This will be good enough. 2/2 flying is good in a pinch and giving creatures evasion is a sure fire way to win games. Not all cubes want this card, but seriously consider it. The best of the cycle. Omenspeaker - Cubable Strong for sure. However this is no Looter, so this is no auto include. Voyage's End - Boarderline Scry 1, is a cute rider, but this card is really, really bad when you consider any Repulse or Man-o'-War. Gray Merchant of Asphodel - Cubable Honestly I want to test this card so bad. It really comes down to consistency it you reliably have 2+ Black syboles is is good value, which doesn't seem too far fetched in black. Read the Bones - Staple This card... Wow. Best card of the set IMO. Just compare it to Foresee, a Cubable, and then consider that this is black. Lightning Strike - Staple Wizards spoiled us with this card. Now we can finally say good bye to those Volcanic Hammers, unless you are true cuber like Lanxal. (We all know he will never cut the Hammer.) Leafcrown Dryad - Cubable Decent. Honestly the bear body doesn't do it for me in Green, but the Hexproof/Aura sub theme does. Nessian Asp - Staple How is everyone not frothing at the mouth at the mere thought of this card. A 4/5 reacher is fine as is, but it is like no one knows what Monstrous does. It literally makes it the biggest creature in the pauper cube, and for only 7 mana. Not just that, but it can be cast for 5 which means it will not rot in your hand like every other fatty ever. I will rant until you all begin to understand how good this is. It is on par with Sentinel Spider. Even if you don't aim to ramp to 7 mana, you will get there in most drawn out games. It is only 2 mana more than it's casting cost. Mvp of the set for sure.
Other cards aren't really worth trying, maybe except for the Bestow cycle, if they turn out to be better than expected.
I look forward to the rest of the set, but even if that was all, it would still be better than the past 3 sets together.
Nessian Asp - Staple How is everyone not frothing at the mouth at the mere thought of this card. A 4/5 reacher is fine as is, but it is like no one knows what Monstrous does. It literally makes it the biggest creature in the pauper cube, and for only 7 mana. Not just that, but it can be cast for 5 which means it will not rot in your hand like every other fatty ever. I will rant until you all begin to understand how good this is. It is on par with Sentinel Spider. Even if you don't aim to ramp to 7 mana, you will get there in most drawn out games. It is only 2 mana more than it's casting cost. Mvp of the set for sure.
I'm not sold on it. I might be open to testing it, but I don't think I have room for it as it stands.
I still think Two-Headed Cerberus is definitely testable at least. I know it needs some sort of power boost in order to be great, but we shouldn't be writing off the first ever common creature with double strike. It's a very powerful ability and certainly interesting that we've now got it available to us.
If we get some more auras into the cube, maybe, but as it stands there's not enough power-pump that works with the Ceberus to make it consistently good. And without those cards, it's just mediocre.
I agree with most of this, particularly the strengths of the Blue bestow creature and the Giant Snake.
I don't see myself ever running Voyage's End or God's Willing though. They just seem outclassed by other cards.
I still think Two-Headed Cerberus is definitely testable at least. I know it needs some sort of power boost in order to be great, but we shouldn't be writing off the first ever common creature with double strike. It's a very powerful ability and certainly interesting that we've now got it available to us.
Note that almost every creature with double strike has 2 or less power (if it's bigger it's a rare/mythic). Therefore any constructed playable double strikers have often seen play in conjunction with power boosting effects. Then take into account that we're all cubing and therefore it's a limited environment and not constructed and we're all at pauper power level. That's why it's testable for me. I predict it'll be one of my 'worst' but most interesting red 3 drops.
Two-Headed Cerberus, is plain not good enough. There really isn't enough pump available in red to justify it. It's mana cost is far too prohibitive. I would cube it if was colourless, but it isn't.
I know Voyage's End isn't good, that's pretty much what I said about it. Maybe putting it as borderline was a bit deceiving. It really is bad. I really struggle to think of any situation where where I would be willing to include it.
You'll need to find a new role model in a few weeks from now.
Nooooo!!!! :'(
I'm not sold on it. I might be open to testing it, but I don't think I have room for it as it stands.
I'm convinced myself that Nessian Asp is the real deal. However, spoiler season is all about the speculation, but prepared to be impressed by this.
If we get some more auras into the cube, maybe, but as it stands there's not enough power-pump that works with the Ceberus to make it consistently good. And without those cards, it's just mediocre.
The first problem that Two-Headed Cerebus faces is that without any pump it is quite far behind curve.
The second problem is that it is red, which has almost no pump outside of equipment, Madcap Skills and Reckless Charge, which isn't nearly enough.
The third problem is that Cerebus costs 1RR, which pretty much means it has to be played in a red main-coloured deck if you want any chance of casting it in a timely manner.
The point is with all those factors combined, it just isn't enough to justify playing as the downsides far out weigh the positives. You are better off just running another face smashing Fault Riders or Ruinous Minotaur.
I want some kind of double striker in my cube as much as the next person, but this isn't the card. If it was a 2/1... *drools*
Pros of cutting Lash Out: It doesn't have guaranteed flexibility, and often plays like a red Last Gasp, especially in aggressive red decks that have smaller chances than normal of winning Clash. Cons of cutting Lash Out: If you win Clash, it's insane, and worst case scenario you just killed a creature. That's not bad, and it's still 3 damage for 2 mana.
Pros of cutting Puncture Blast: 3 damaga for 3 mana is simply overcosted for a burn spell, and Wither doesn't actually matter that often. Cons of cutting Puncture Blast: when wither is relevant, it's very relevant. Shrinking something like Sentinel Spider to a 1/1 after blockers are declared is really powerful.
I cut Puncture Blast in order to support Regenerate in my cube. It goes right around it and beats Regenerate in a color that I feel shouldn't have all the answers.
Red has been THE color that beats regenerate in terms of direct damage for a very VERY long time.
My cube is almost finished, I won't be getting sink hole or chain lightning, you think Read the Bones for sinkhole and Lightning Strike for Chain lightning?
Definitely excited for Nessian Asp. I've been looking for an upgrade to Hollowhenge Beast for a while, not because the card is bad (it's not) but because it's unexciting. The people I draft with don't see its power level the same way I do because it just looks very bland. Asp is awesome.
Read the Bones is absolutely insane in literally every black deck. Definitely a staple, this will be a very high pick for black decks, and I'll probably pick this over non-premium black removal almost all the time. It makes Sign in Blood look pretty bad in comparison.
Omenspeaker was good. Not at staple level for control decks because sometimes you really do need a Sea Gate Oracle instead, but it's a solid card nonetheless. It's very good early game and is still fine lategame - being able to scry away dead draws once you've started running out of cards is very good and easy to underrate. U/x control decks do want this card, and it's definitely at least a mid-pack pick for those decks, potentially higher if you expect a lot of fast aggro decks.
Nessian Asp was good. It never actually became monstrous, because the threat of monstrosity alone was enough to make it a giant removal magnet. I still rank it slightly lower than Tangle Hulk because it can't regenerate, but it's definitely worth playing, and is substantially better than something like Hollowhenge Beast. I didn't have a chance to test it in a ramp deck, but it will almost certainly be very good there.
Leafcrown Dryad was okay. It played well against blue tempo and control decks (and removal-heavy decks in general), and I think it's a mid-pack pick for G/x midrange decks and a slightly higher pick for G/x aura decks. The only real downside is that 4 mana is quite a lot. This makes me think the other Bestow cards probably won't make it, because at 5+ mana for Bestow, the game has probably developed enough that the body left behind is pretty irrelevant. It's definitely not as bad as getting your auras 2 for 1'd with removal, but it's still not exciting. A lot of the time, you're trading one of your better creatures, a card, and a pretty large amount of mana for a fairly underwhelming creature and one of your opponent's removal spells that probably would have killed the creature you wanted to enchant anyway. Still, I'll hopefully have a chance to test the entire cycle out some more.
Nessian Asp was good. It never actually became monstrous, because the threat of monstrosity alone was enough to make it a giant removal magnet. I still rank it slightly lower than Tangle Hulk because it can't regenerate, but it's definitely worth playing, and is substantially better than something like Hollowhenge Beast. I didn't have a chance to test it in a ramp deck, but it will almost certainly be very good there.
This card reminds me a lot like Consecrated Sphinx. A card that needs to be answered or some real trouble is coming your way. And this is very much on the same page. I can't wait to add it.
This card reminds me a lot like Consecrated Sphinx. A card that needs to be answered or some real trouble is coming your way. And this is very much on the same page. I can't wait to add it.
No offense, but it doesn't fly, it doesn't draw you 2 cards every other turn, it doesn't run away with the game even if pacified.
How are they even remotely close??:confused2:
I was also the same guy who pushed for Walker of the Grove and got reminded that it dies to Pacifism so I'm not entirely against the Asp.
...I dislike Clash as a mechanic. It's entirely luck-based without Top, infinite Brainstorms, or Scry, and that's even more true in Red where a lot of your cards tend to be cheap. I've never run Lash Out for this reason.
You're forgetting that most of the time, we're using Searing Spear for the same purpose as Lash Out... removing a creature with it so your critter can smash face. Lash Out is absolutely insane and I have been super short-sighted to not see it in the past. In exchange for the 1 in 50 games(figures pulled out from my ass) you need it as a burn to finish the game, it offers the CHANCE to be a [CARD]SEARING BLAZE
[/CARD]... I mean which deck in pauper would it find no targets?:o Now you argued that you're never gonna win the clash most of the time, fine. Given that you lose the Clash you probably revealed a land or a low drop... So you reveal a... Goblin Patrol shucks its turn 7, bad card, tuck it. You reveal mountain... Shucks! Even worst, tuck it. It works as Pseudo-scry, and when you get this option if you failed to burn face for 3...(after removing their critter of course) I'd say this card is as close as Searing Blaze+Magma Jet's mutant baby(recessive genes) at 2 mana in pauper.
On a more relevant note: k_alk's testing results are similar to mine, proxied three of the four he tested and got similar results; I'll test the Asp(impress me:cool2:), Alseid(not hopeful) and Niad(not hopeful either) next.
Lash Out is absolutely insane and I have been super short-sighted to not see it in the past.
This just isn't true. It's been in my cube since it was first made and it has yet to impress me. The fact that it can't go to the face is a much bigger deal than the potential from clash. I think I've succeeded in winning the clash with Lash Out maybe 3 times in all the times I've played it. Insane might have been the wrong word to use.
The Scry 1 argument is bad, because it counts for your opponent aswell. Of course you could put something bad away, but your opponent got the same advantage and this way it's only a pseudo advantage.
Who needs that topdeck more, an aggressive red deck or some other midrange deck? That pseudo advantage works FOR red, not against red, unless your opponent happen to "scry 1" closer to Troubled Healer or Mark of the Vampire then yeah it's bad if not, it works in the way of red. Isn't red's pseudo card advantage about killing you before you get play your hand?
Clash is not good in constructed and even worse in limited, because of the way higher land count.
Comparing it this way is wrong. As far as I've been drafting R/x[Not red splash**] in my cube are always on 13~15 land thats 35% lands on average. It does play significantly lower lands than its other counterparts. Failing to be a Searing Blaze does not mean card is bad. As for Hammer, it doesn't stop a pump spell from devouring your first strike creature(I run a lot more) until its too late, granted you don't play any pumps in ur cube anymore.
I think I've succeeded in winning the clash with Lash Out maybe 3 times in all the times I've played it.
Take note how often Volcanic Hammer is used to remove a creature, then take note how often you need Volcanic Hammer to kill a player. Yeah, we usually don't win the clash, but it's done it's job, at worst its a Thunderclap at best a Punish the Enemy for TWO mana.
Anyways we should go back on topic, Nessian Asp has been awkward for me, its good enough to warrant inclusion but what do we cut for it? Hollowhenge Beast, Tangle Hulk are the popular choices to go but what about those who run neither of them?
Seems that the full theroes spoiler is out thanks to the MTGO beta. Currently looking through the list but so far Aqueous Form seems cool as making something unblockable and letting you scry 1 whenever it attacks for U seems good especially if you are doing a hexproof theme in blue as it also got a 4/5 hexproof giant for 5U which can maybe be a finisher for some blue decks.
I haven't had the time to look through the spoiler indepth yet, but Boulderfall looks very interesting. 8 mana 5 damage Arc Lightning. Rolling Thunder 2? It's probably still awful because 8 mana is so much, but it makes me salivate nonetheless.
Deathbellow Raider - Better than something like Rakdos Shred-Freak in B/R sections since it doesn't die to every 2/x, and the built in regeneration is nice.
Feral Invocation - Flash makes this worth considering for aura themes.
Pheres-Band Centaurs - Not sure if this makes the cut, but this profitably blocks or swings through pretty much anything on the ground and is solidly out of burn range.
I'm also not sure how to evaluate the ETB:Cantrip aura cycle, but none of them seem that exciting.
What about Ill Tempered Cyclops. Might be actually decent for red 4 drops which have always left a little to be desired. A 3/3 trample for 4 isn't exactly great but being able to make it into a 6/6 trample just 2 turns later is pretty cool. Then again, maybe thats too big of a mana investment. There's also the 4/3 minotaur for 2RR but i dont think that extra power is worth losing haste.
Time to Feed 2G
Sorcery Common
Choose target creature an opponent controls. When that creature dies this turn, you gain 3 life. Target creature you control fights that creature.
Time to Feed 2G
Sorcery Common
Choose target creature an opponent controls. When that creature dies this turn, you gain 3 life. Target creature you control fights that creature.
This seems fine tbh.
I dunno, is 2 mana worth 3 life tacked onto a Prey Upon?
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Titan's Strength does seem like a pretty pushed red trick.
Boulderfall, on the other hand... for 8? That seems AWFUL expensive for a 5-point Pyrotechnics.
I like Wild Celebrants a bit. There's a number of ETB destroy an artifact guys in red, but 5/3 for 3RR is the best body of any of them.
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My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Gods Willing - Cubable Decent card, but not everyone will need this effect. I like it over Apostle's Blessing for the Scry 1.
Observant Alseid - Borderline Could be good enough, really depends how good bestow is.
Nibus Naiad - Cubable This will be good enough. 2/2 flying is good in a pinch and giving creatures evasion is a sure fire way to win games. Not all cubes want this card, but seriously consider it. The best of the cycle.
Omenspeaker - Cubable Strong for sure. However this is no Looter, so this is no auto include.
Voyage's End - Boarderline Scry 1, is a cute rider, but this card is really, really bad when you consider any Repulse or Man-o'-War.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel - Cubable Honestly I want to test this card so bad. It really comes down to consistency it you reliably have 2+ Black syboles is is good value, which doesn't seem too far fetched in black.
Read the Bones - Staple This card... Wow. Best card of the set IMO. Just compare it to Foresee, a Cubable, and then consider that this is black.
Lightning Strike - Staple Wizards spoiled us with this card. Now we can finally say good bye to those Volcanic Hammers, unless you are true cuber like Lanxal. (We all know he will never cut the Hammer.)
Leafcrown Dryad - Cubable Decent. Honestly the bear body doesn't do it for me in Green, but the Hexproof/Aura sub theme does.
Nessian Asp - Staple How is everyone not frothing at the mouth at the mere thought of this card. A 4/5 reacher is fine as is, but it is like no one knows what Monstrous does. It literally makes it the biggest creature in the pauper cube, and for only 7 mana. Not just that, but it can be cast for 5 which means it will not rot in your hand like every other fatty ever. I will rant until you all begin to understand how good this is. It is on par with Sentinel Spider. Even if you don't aim to ramp to 7 mana, you will get there in most drawn out games. It is only 2 mana more than it's casting cost. Mvp of the set for sure.
Other cards aren't really worth trying, maybe except for the Bestow cycle, if they turn out to be better than expected.
I look forward to the rest of the set, but even if that was all, it would still be better than the past 3 sets together.
You'll need to find a new role model in a few weeks from now.
I'm not sold on it. I might be open to testing it, but I don't think I have room for it as it stands.
If we get some more auras into the cube, maybe, but as it stands there's not enough power-pump that works with the Ceberus to make it consistently good. And without those cards, it's just mediocre.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Two-Headed Cerberus, is plain not good enough. There really isn't enough pump available in red to justify it. It's mana cost is far too prohibitive. I would cube it if was colourless, but it isn't.
I know Voyage's End isn't good, that's pretty much what I said about it. Maybe putting it as borderline was a bit deceiving. It really is bad. I really struggle to think of any situation where where I would be willing to include it.
Nooooo!!!! :'(
I'm convinced myself that Nessian Asp is the real deal. However, spoiler season is all about the speculation, but prepared to be impressed by this.
The second problem is that it is red, which has almost no pump outside of equipment, Madcap Skills and Reckless Charge, which isn't nearly enough.
The third problem is that Cerebus costs 1RR, which pretty much means it has to be played in a red main-coloured deck if you want any chance of casting it in a timely manner.
The point is with all those factors combined, it just isn't enough to justify playing as the downsides far out weigh the positives. You are better off just running another face smashing Fault Riders or Ruinous Minotaur.
I want some kind of double striker in my cube as much as the next person, but this isn't the card. If it was a 2/1... *drools*
Personally, even if it was on par with the worst art ever, I'd still make that swap with out even blinking.
Pros of cutting Lash Out: It doesn't have guaranteed flexibility, and often plays like a red Last Gasp, especially in aggressive red decks that have smaller chances than normal of winning Clash. Cons of cutting Lash Out: If you win Clash, it's insane, and worst case scenario you just killed a creature. That's not bad, and it's still 3 damage for 2 mana.
Pros of cutting Puncture Blast: 3 damaga for 3 mana is simply overcosted for a burn spell, and Wither doesn't actually matter that often. Cons of cutting Puncture Blast: when wither is relevant, it's very relevant. Shrinking something like Sentinel Spider to a 1/1 after blockers are declared is really powerful.
Red has been THE color that beats regenerate in terms of direct damage for a very VERY long time.
My cube is almost finished, I won't be getting sink hole or chain lightning, you think Read the Bones for sinkhole and Lightning Strike for Chain lightning?
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Read the Bones is absolutely insane in literally every black deck. Definitely a staple, this will be a very high pick for black decks, and I'll probably pick this over non-premium black removal almost all the time. It makes Sign in Blood look pretty bad in comparison.
Omenspeaker was good. Not at staple level for control decks because sometimes you really do need a Sea Gate Oracle instead, but it's a solid card nonetheless. It's very good early game and is still fine lategame - being able to scry away dead draws once you've started running out of cards is very good and easy to underrate. U/x control decks do want this card, and it's definitely at least a mid-pack pick for those decks, potentially higher if you expect a lot of fast aggro decks.
Nessian Asp was good. It never actually became monstrous, because the threat of monstrosity alone was enough to make it a giant removal magnet. I still rank it slightly lower than Tangle Hulk because it can't regenerate, but it's definitely worth playing, and is substantially better than something like Hollowhenge Beast. I didn't have a chance to test it in a ramp deck, but it will almost certainly be very good there.
Leafcrown Dryad was okay. It played well against blue tempo and control decks (and removal-heavy decks in general), and I think it's a mid-pack pick for G/x midrange decks and a slightly higher pick for G/x aura decks. The only real downside is that 4 mana is quite a lot. This makes me think the other Bestow cards probably won't make it, because at 5+ mana for Bestow, the game has probably developed enough that the body left behind is pretty irrelevant. It's definitely not as bad as getting your auras 2 for 1'd with removal, but it's still not exciting. A lot of the time, you're trading one of your better creatures, a card, and a pretty large amount of mana for a fairly underwhelming creature and one of your opponent's removal spells that probably would have killed the creature you wanted to enchant anyway. Still, I'll hopefully have a chance to test the entire cycle out some more.
This card reminds me a lot like Consecrated Sphinx. A card that needs to be answered or some real trouble is coming your way. And this is very much on the same page. I can't wait to add it.
No offense, but it doesn't fly, it doesn't draw you 2 cards every other turn, it doesn't run away with the game even if pacified.
How are they even remotely close??:confused2:
I was also the same guy who pushed for Walker of the Grove and got reminded that it dies to Pacifism so I'm not entirely against the Asp.
You're forgetting that most of the time, we're using Searing Spear for the same purpose as Lash Out... removing a creature with it so your critter can smash face. Lash Out is absolutely insane and I have been super short-sighted to not see it in the past. In exchange for the 1 in 50 games(figures pulled out from my ass) you need it as a burn to finish the game, it offers the CHANCE to be a [CARD]SEARING BLAZE
[/CARD]... I mean which deck in pauper would it find no targets?:o Now you argued that you're never gonna win the clash most of the time, fine. Given that you lose the Clash you probably revealed a land or a low drop... So you reveal a... Goblin Patrol shucks its turn 7, bad card, tuck it. You reveal mountain... Shucks! Even worst, tuck it. It works as Pseudo-scry, and when you get this option if you failed to burn face for 3...(after removing their critter of course) I'd say this card is as close as Searing Blaze+Magma Jet's mutant baby(recessive genes) at 2 mana in pauper.
On a more relevant note: k_alk's testing results are similar to mine, proxied three of the four he tested and got similar results; I'll test the Asp(impress me:cool2:), Alseid(not hopeful) and Niad(not hopeful either) next.
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This just isn't true. It's been in my cube since it was first made and it has yet to impress me. The fact that it can't go to the face is a much bigger deal than the potential from clash. I think I've succeeded in winning the clash with Lash Out maybe 3 times in all the times I've played it. Insane might have been the wrong word to use.
In the powered cubes, by all accounts CS would fail the terminate test or the "dies to removal" argument.
But it's board presence is so powerful, that, it is still very much worth using.
Same goes for the asp.
Ability to hit players good.
Such is the way of things.
Who needs that topdeck more, an aggressive red deck or some other midrange deck? That pseudo advantage works FOR red, not against red, unless your opponent happen to "scry 1" closer to Troubled Healer or Mark of the Vampire then yeah it's bad if not, it works in the way of red. Isn't red's pseudo card advantage about killing you before you get play your hand?
Comparing it this way is wrong. As far as I've been drafting R/x[Not red splash**] in my cube are always on 13~15 land thats 35% lands on average. It does play significantly lower lands than its other counterparts. Failing to be a Searing Blaze does not mean card is bad. As for Hammer, it doesn't stop a pump spell from devouring your first strike creature(I run a lot more) until its too late, granted you don't play any pumps in ur cube anymore.
Take note how often Volcanic Hammer is used to remove a creature, then take note how often you need Volcanic Hammer to kill a player. Yeah, we usually don't win the clash, but it's done it's job, at worst its a Thunderclap at best a Punish the Enemy for TWO mana.
Anyways we should go back on topic, Nessian Asp has been awkward for me, its good enough to warrant inclusion but what do we cut for it? Hollowhenge Beast, Tangle Hulk are the popular choices to go but what about those who run neither of them?
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I haven't had the time to look through the spoiler indepth yet, but Boulderfall looks very interesting. 8 mana 5 damage Arc Lightning. Rolling Thunder 2? It's probably still awful because 8 mana is so much, but it makes me salivate nonetheless.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Aqueous Form - This seems very strong. If it isn't answered, the amount of card advantage it generates should win the game.
Prescient Chimera - A 3/4 flying for 5 is fine, and its ability is really good, especially with both draw spells and in winning top deck wars.
Vaporkin - Welkin Tern #2! Pretty easy include.
Deathbellow Raider - Better than something like Rakdos Shred-Freak in B/R sections since it doesn't die to every 2/x, and the built in regeneration is nice.
Titan's Strength - Probably not quite as good as Brute Force, but still a solid combat trick.
Feral Invocation - Flash makes this worth considering for aura themes.
Pheres-Band Centaurs - Not sure if this makes the cut, but this profitably blocks or swings through pretty much anything on the ground and is solidly out of burn range.
I'm also not sure how to evaluate the ETB:Cantrip aura cycle, but none of them seem that exciting.
Sorcery Common
Choose target creature an opponent controls. When that creature dies this turn, you gain 3 life. Target creature you control fights that creature.
This seems fine tbh.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
I dunno, is 2 mana worth 3 life tacked onto a Prey Upon?
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Titan's Strength does seem like a pretty pushed red trick.
Boulderfall, on the other hand... for 8? That seems AWFUL expensive for a 5-point Pyrotechnics.
I like Wild Celebrants a bit. There's a number of ETB destroy an artifact guys in red, but 5/3 for 3RR is the best body of any of them.
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