Quote from calibrettoYou'll also occasionally have a player that plays it incorrectly and it ends up netting you three cards.
Quote from LeelueI don't like the idea of an opponent's misplays factoring into my I evaluations. At all.
Also, in blue, even in my cube you're more likely to be behind in the first 4-6 turns. The times where I'd be able to play this early to take advantage of its CMC seem insanely low.
Quote from calibrettoFor the most part, it comes down at the same time something like Armageddon would.
Quote from LeelueSee, the issue is that standstill really is best when played on turn two. It is also most potent when you have manland to circumvent it.
Quote from LeelueIf you are playing it on turns 6+ then you are using it functionally the same way as you would Jaces erasure, and you aren't taking advantage of its cmc anymore. Since you absolutely positively cannot play the card if you are even the slightest bit behind on the board, which is more common for blue than for any other color, I just can't imagine it being better than a card that naturally draws 3 cards and puts you back in the game Right Now. I just cannot see it.
Quote from LeelueArmageddon isn't a fair comparison. Building a white based aggro deck is incredibly easy and casting it on curve is commonplace.
Quote from Leelue Also, there are plenty of cards that go "get ahead and win". Just in my blue section count Tidings, Jodah's avenger, Volition reins, Mulldrifter, Control magic, Fencer clique, sleep, forbid, benthicore and capsize. That's ten cards that almost never lose the game when you stabilize. Nucklavee, even if its only getting back psionic blast, could qualify as well. Blue is not short on win more cards.
Quote from calibrettoMoving on with more discussion...
I just did a faux draft with my cube on TappedOut. This is what I came up with. Thoughts?
RG LDMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
1 Mire Boa1 River Boa1 Wall of Roots1 Wall of Blossoms1 Kitchen Finks1 Eternal Witness1 Skirk Marauder1 Ghitu Slinger1 Avalanche Riders1 Bloodbraid Elf1 Tormentor Exarch1 Indrik Stomphowler1 Deadwood Treefolk1 Volcanic Dragon1 Forked Bolt1 Gruul Signet1 Arc Trail1 Arc Lightning1 Staggershock1 Volcanic Fallout1 Molten Rain1 Pillage1 Aftershock1 Vivid Grove1 Vivid Crag1 Gemstone Mine1 Gruul Turf1 Strip Mine1 Evolving Wilds1 Terramorphic Expanse6 Mountain4 Forest//Sideboard1 Briarhorn1 Vivid Marsh1 Harmonize1 Urza's Factory1 Gemstone Mine1 Rakdos Carnarium1 Orzhov Basilica1 Juggernaut1 Mask of Memory1 Breath of Darigaaz1 Strip Mine1 Wickerbough Elder1 Pelakka Wurm1 Inquisition of Kozilek1 Fireslinger
What would you have done differently, if anything?
Quote from LeelueI have an issue when people talk about magic cards. It's like people just restate what the cards do.
Sayin that stomphowler is always a 4/4 but wickerbough can come down a turn early is just a restatement of the cards' stats. Without going into mana curve considerations, or mentioning that stomp may be forced to shoot one of your cards (or the significantly more relevant "wickerbough elder can come down on turn 5 and for all intents and purposes have the same cmc as stomphowler when you use the ability"), a judgment was made. We are supposed to go more in depth here.
Quote from LeelueBut yeah, again, wickerbough is a 4/4 just as much as stomphowler. Except for the rare, rare game where you run either one out late game without a target, the tree is functionally the same, but much more flexible.
Quote from LeelueAlso, I would run briarhorn out over wall of blossoms. You want to blow up lands so you can kill them when they are off balance. You can't kill them with walls, and that extra dig down may or may not be as relevant as having a relevant set of bodies.
Quote from LeelueBriarhorn is very often a 2fer and is one of the most devastating combat tricks in cube. I also have never once thought anyone got their manas worth when they activated a skirk marauder. I wouldn't pay for a grey ogre that can shock once for 3 mana in cube (and shrink while its at it), and tacking on "i can be coral merfolk too!" isn't exactly enticing.
Quote from LeelueI for one have no intentions of letting this thread die. But my phone did. Since thats my only way to access the internet, with it, so did my contributions to the thread. I'll have a replacement soon enough.
I'm on a friend's laptop now
In the meantime
I can finally type with efficiency
Quote from LeelueSo your deck is, how you say, not aggressive at all. It seems as though all of your wins will come out of air elemental, or a fireball for 16. So, I would suggest trying to alleviate the burden on those two cards.
Quote from LeelueSo off the bat, Impaler shrike is another potential win condition, and tormenter exarch is a semi-decent dude that can make beats if the weather allows. In addition, upon first glance, I am a bit interested in seeing if sejiri refuge will support the ever-amazing faith's fetters. But I digress. There probably won't be enough time to go into it, I just suggest that you think about it. Your deck has probems with resolved things with toughness. I prefer rift bolt in your deck over arc trail for that reason; you have enough card advantage and selection to make the 2fer1 on arc trail less impressive. Sometimes, you just need to kill a dude (not to mention how sick it is suspended next to a staggershock. Zing!)
Quote from Leelue Frost breath is like a mutated Holy day in your deck, made worse due to the fact that you really can't take advantage by swinging back or using the free time to make your board state significant (not counting the 3 cards in your deck that make up your board presence). It's time for the sake of time, and I would think that the Exarch would perform a similar function while helping you more in the long term.*
Quote from LeelueI hesitate to remove a counterspell. Any one of them is potentially an argument waiting to happen if I were to call one out. But the thing is, since so many of them are soft counters, and since you don't have a significant number of way to deal with someone's second or third threat (losing fireball to a dude sucks for you, but it does what it has to), I would suggest dropping one of the soft counters for either impaler shrike or blind with anger. Shrike lets you have a clock to allow your man-o-war and other cards to shine. The red spell is a complete house some games, and I would even suggest losing a total of two counters (not daze, as much as I dislike the card) or even a counter and the weakest removal spell (probably arc trail in this deck) to maximize the density of cards your opponent will have to care about.
Quote from LeelueGigantic aside
I've been running 17lands/24cards for the last 6 months as my base and haven't looked back. Of course I adjust if my deck shows signs of needing it (to 16/24, 18/23, or 17/23), however, 17/24 is as close as possible to playing 25 lands in a 60 card deck (16/24 in limited is also exactly the same as playing 24/36 in constructed, in case the ratio never caught anyone's attention). Mathematically, 17/40 is very close to playing 26 lands in standard, which is a little too high for my blood in a format where games are expected to hit turn 8-12 or even more (also known as every limited environment except for zendikar). In cube, the old "it is one less card in the way of drawing the card you want" mantra rings significantly less true, since, in cube, all of the cards you draw should be good cards to draw (barring desperate circumstances). Since 80% of the game is usually played out in the midgame, you should be caring about threat density a little more than threat quality, especially since the threat disparity of your cards shouldn't waver too much in this format.
In the end, I've tracked about the same number of mana droughts and floods, but in the games where mana is about stable, every time I draw that 41'st card I know that I have that one extra threat that keeps the game in my favor. Of course, if your'e 41'st card is whacksauce, don't bother. Only do it if you'd be cutting value.
Quote from LeelueI hear turning off crystal shard and loxadon warhammer are nice things to do too...
Quote from LeelueSo yeah, I had a lot of thoughts. I hope some of that was interesting for you/anyone else reading.
Quote from Leelue*I don't like tormentor exarch. Not outside of scars. I really, really, really, dont think it's a good card. It does something... something, yes, but I think that's not a good enough argument. I shouldn't be able to look at two cards in my cube (this and flametongue kavu) and have my face stuck in frown mode. I know, the comparison is unfair (kavu IS god and all), but that's the point. You should be able to find more powerful, and more interesting-to-play cards.
Quote from LeelueAlternates that don't get a lot of fanfare that I suggest are Battle-rattle shaman (serious business, no joke. The fact that his ability is free is what makes him playable and he does not disappoint, I guarantee this.) and Riddle of lightning (The card's value is nothing short of delicious. It's about as close to Prophetic Bolt as we'll ever get). Assuming, of course, that you aren't playing them. I swear by both of these cards.
Quote from Xis10tialist-Daze // I don't like this card in peasant, as way less of the threats are significant enough to justify the tempo loss
-Fireblast // With only 6 Mountains in a non-sligh style deck?
-Frost Breath // Your deck isn't tempo-based, this is pretty bad
-Island x2 // I think running 16 lands is fine and I want to splash for Faith's Fetters
+Blind With Anger // This card is nuts and often goes 2 for 1
+Izzet Signet // Why are you not running this?
+Tormentor Exarch // More 2 for 1 potential; not Flametongue Kavu but not every card gets to rival those in a powered cube
+Faith's Fetters // Awesomesauce
+Sejiri Refuge // Your mana seems fine, with 11 Blue sources, 10 Red sources and 3 White sources
Quote from Big JimHey guys, I want to know your opinions on something.
Does it seem like aggro is harder to draft depending on the draft format?
After having done a few Winston/Winchester drafts with 2 or 3 people, it seems like aggro might be a bit weak for my cube. We did a 4 person regular draft (15 card packs) and it seemed like the quality of aggro increased by a fair bit. I was wondering if you all have found similar things.