Quote from LeelueAs for the thief, I found a good number of targets. Behemoths sledge, grafted wargear, porcelain legionnaire, lightning greaves or swiftfoot boots (sick life), crystal ball, palladium myr, thundering tanadon, icy manipulator, isochron scepter, bonesplitter, vulshock morningstar, darksteel sentinel, the red and white shrines, and crystal shard.
Quote from tReasoncalibretto, I can't imagine why you'd cut Manic Vandal. There are so many pretty things to smash with it. Maybe it's just that my group runs a lot of greedy mana bases that are only fixed by signets or that Grafted Wargear/Skullclamp/Loxodon Warhammer show up a lot and ruin your day, but it always seems like there's a target for the Vandal.
Quote from Leelue<Snip>
Thanks for reading.
Quote from LeelueHow big is your cube? I'm at 400.
Oh, treason, red's creatures are terrible by comparison. this is fact. Red will never win against green or white head to head, and black's creatures often have some "grinding" advantages to them.
I think you guys may be right about goblin fireslinger. I may have just been too hyped by the prerelease. What do you think of tortured spirit then? I've always liked Inkfathom infiltrator, and this is a somewhat worse version.
As for counterspells, I guess the early game window for negate doesn't offset the all encompassing hinder. I've been upset with negate for some time, anyway.
Hinder slaps cenn's enlistment in the face... so I can't complain I guess.
Exclude always feels like a blowout, similar to soul manipulation, and I think its place is close to permanent.
Quote from calibrettoI have no idea what Tortured Spirit is. Neither does Gatherer or the M12 spoiler.
Quote from tReasonI have 490 cards in my cube, as I feel it lets me get a bit more freedom with what to put in but I also feel like it's a bit weak sometimes. I always draft with 6 or 8 people and we use up ~75% of the cube every time.
Quote from tReasonHe meant Tormented Soul. At least this guy carries equipment like a champ, much like anyone else with evasion. The can't block is barely a drawback, as he'll be living sideways all the time due to being unblockable. If you need bloodthirst to be enabled all the time, he's your guy. Speaking of black cards which need to have bloodthirst enabled, what do you guys think about Vampire Outcasts?
Quote from Big JimRight now, I don't think Vampire Outcasts make the cut. They are very close though, and depending on the nature of black in one's cube, could make it in. I personally don't like it because:
1) it is conditionally above the curve; in other words, it must be played with bloodthirst to be be good.
2) it doesn't have evasion; and many of the black 4-drops have some sort of evasion, which makes a cut at this cost difficult.
I'm open to opinions though.
Quote from Big JimI don't like Tormented Soul. Too conditional (having equipment, bloodthirst, etc.).
Quote from Big JimAlso, can someone lay out their logic for Force of Will? I think that without the need to fight combo, like in Legacy, the card disadvantage might be too much. I haven't ever played with it in a Limited environment though. I can see playing it for nostalgia or for completeness (it's a classic "good card"), but is it a must-include?
Quote from LeelueTormented soul
thanks for correcting me
You say conditional, I say turn 1. If it isn't answered, it will very likely decide a game. Not all creatures can say that they actually need kill spells pointed at them. Five damage? Eight damage? They have to kill it. Equipment? Elephant guide? Nothing wrong with that if you ask me. I'll be back with my reports on him when I get more testing in.
Quote from LeelueIf he was a 2/1 then he'd be the best black creature in the cube by far. Perhaps I'm exaggerating, but a 2 power evasive creature for 1 mana is virtually unheard of in any color. Let's be real.
Quote from Leelue I'm not expecting him to deal 20. I'm not expecting vampire lacerator to deal 20 either. I want my one drop to deal some damage, and this guy guarantees it. I am reminded of the experiment that was done back in kamigawa block when it was shown that suntail hawk averages more damage than isamaru, hound of konda. The environment was different, to be fair, but the argument is similar.
Quote from LeelueThe differences in the two creatures are worth noting; Tormented soul won't be stopped by a flier, and vampire lacerator ends up clocking you for 3-5 damage.
I'm certainly not saying to get rid of our 1 mana 2/2's, I'm just making a case for the validity of a 1 power, 1 mana unblockable
Quote from LeelueHaving 1 toughness as opposed to two let's him die to... cunning sparkmage... cycled slice and dice... and... Not a whole lot else (Maybe the worlds worst judge unworthy). He's not really more afraid of burn than your average creature.
Quote from Leelue Furthermore, it is not often that an elephant/griffin guide gets 2 for 1'd. Players tap out, especially around the early turns.
Quote from LeelueAlso
My argument for saying the creature is good with enchantments requires me to have one of the very few auras in my cube. Thus, it isn't very strong, and I was only using it as a small point. A counterargument that requires the opponent to have mana up and a kill spell at the ready for my corner case to be invalidated is then, by its very nature, another weak point. The more rungs down the ladder we go, the worse the points become. Imagine how silly I'd sound if I went and said that "i would cast apostles blessing in response".
Quote from Leelue Also, I could have just replaced elephant guide with incremental growth if I was expecting an appeal to the power of burn spells. I merely pulled the first permanent, power enhancing green spell out of thin air.
Quote from LeelueIn any case, I'll take it upon myself to test him, like I'm testing master thief. I'll have my reports soon.
Quote from LeelueI really like this little foursome we have going on here. No homo.
Quote from LeelueBy the way, I tried fume spitter before I got my Blind Creeper and Fledgling Djinn (aka before aggro was better) and he wasn't great. Now that my black looks like a bigger version of my red, perhaps Fume spitter will act more like mogg fanatic.
Quote from LeelueWhat are your thoughts on un cards? I've been running them and have had a great experience. I think I have frazzled editor, carnivorous death parrot, and booster tutor. Booster tutor is perhaps the most fun, and most powerful, card in black.