Interesting takes on peasant lists. A lot of ads too lol.
As somebody who doesn't get to play with my cube much these days, it has got me thinking about the oppressiveness of tokens, sweepers and free 2for1's vs aggro strats.
I think my list and a lot of others here leans more aggro on purpose than more typical peasant lists you see out there. But perhaps I should be doing more than iust supporting lots of aggro cards and instead consider axing high value road blocks like Sea Gate Oracle.
This is from a +1/+1 Counters perspective in particular. I run Elite Scaleguard already, and it's great. However, I feel like the Counters deck could use another good curve topper.
I just don't see the interest in the Quartermaster. Now as for the other two, I think it comes down on the types of counters decks that pop up in your cube, i.e. how do counters end up on creatures? Generally I think the effects like to see several creatures having at least one counter rather than one creature getting several, so I'd think Alharu gets the nod over the Constable.
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I wish all archetypes could be equally hated. Or loved, but the former better reflects the mindset of the vocal portion of the player base. My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
@n00b1n8R
I listened to the video/podcast. Idk... they seemed to be making pretty obvious points. Yes, aggro needs extra support; I assumed that was a known thing - especially in Peasant where all the dual-lands outside City of Brass CIPT. I disagree with what they were saying about cards like Palace Jailer, Timely Reinforcements, Pyroclasm, Slice and Dice, or all the Nekrataals potentially needing removed though. Just give aggro better tools, and more importantly - an abundance of tools - so that the aggro drafter doesn't have to choose between Lightning Bolt and some 2/1 for 1cmc that it really needs for it's deck to function. Like you said though... I think most people on MTGSalvation who are active are aware of this already. And maybe this is a commentary more on regular cubes than Peasant ones, but it has always amazed me at how little pros or people writing for SCG or something seem to know about modern cube design and seem to be stuck in the old days of "dragon cube" so to speak. I mean... Sea Gate Oracle? Really? It's a good card (though not what it used to be imo), but talking about axing it for power level concerns seems kind of crazy.
@HaccyZ
Thanks for your thoughts. I think I'd have to agree with you. Alharu is looking ever-so-slightly the most appealing to me as well. While the Quartermaster does have flying (and I do support Flyers), having no other ability is a bummer. Constable of the Realm looks interesting, but I'm not sure my cube has enough effects that put counters on OTHER creatures to make it work, and while it can fuel itself with Renowned, a 3/3 for 5cmc that has to attack and connect to get the effect seems questionable. In fact, it worries me that all three are just 3/3s - a vulnerable body at 5cmc. Why the first two couldn't have been designed to able to put a counter on themselves, I don't know.
@n00b1n8R, @Vannatar
I did agree with many of the points made in that podcast and have tried (hopefully with success) to have previously implemented those points in my Peasant Cube design. The main thing they said which I agree with is how Peasant is defined by value creatures/spells and addressing that aspect of cube design is very important to helping aggressive decks thrive. I am also conflicted by my general philosophy on cube, which is to push the power as high is possible. Here are some of the ideas I have implemented to push power towards aggro decks, calling out specific cards on the way.
1) Minimize cheap value cards for non-aggro decks.
At two or three mana, I think almost all cards should be geared towards aggro decks OR towards setup for the late-game decks. Taking the early game board advantage away from aggro decks is a surefire way to keep them from thriving. I have cut Wall of Omens, Sea Gate Oracle, Drown in Sorrow, Pyroclasm, Wall of Blossoms, Filigree Familiar, and more from cube for this reason. Certain of those cards might not be too powerful, but all of them slow down aggro while having almost no value for aggro.
There is certainly still room for powerful, value cards in Cube. A lot of the cards called out so far in this conversation and in the podcast DO work for most aggro decks- Palace Jailer, Whirler Rogue, Ravenous Chupacabra, and Flametongue Kavu. I think you can cultivate a Cube environment where the best value picks go in a variety of decks and late-game decks need to fight for those value cards before crafting the rest of their deck.
2) Cut generically good value cards for synergy cards.
A few years ago, I tried to shift the priorities for late-game Cube decks away from taking all the fixing/ramp and picking up their value later. As a Peasant Cube leaning towards multi-color, I had drafters who would take fixing early because they knew they could always get good value cards late. At that time, this meant cutting cards like Archaeomancer, Jilt and Orim's Thunder.
These days, this means leaving out Into the Roil, Treasure Keeper, The Eldest Reborn, and Cloudblazer. I think Peasant has plenty of powerful cards that are more interesting because they are more specific in power. For these cards I mentioned, I have replaced them with Careful Consideration, Ovalchase Dragster, Blood for Bones, and Kangee, Sky Warden. Your substitute cards may vary, but the overall goal is for decks to have to build towards their late game value instead of just having it automatically.
3) Allow value at higher mana costs and give aggro decks countermeasures.
I do support plenty of powerful non-aggro cards, but I hope to keep most of those at higher mana costs. Hopefully, this gives the aggro time to have countermeasures available or close the game out. When Feast of Succession was spoiled, one of the things I liked the most was the fact that it was mildly weak to pump spells to get above 4 toughness. When the control deck taps out for Slice and Dice but the aggro player has Fight as One available, a potentially game ending spell become almost meaningless. The Dimir control deck firing off Ribbons of Night at Vampire Nighthawk only to see an Undying Evil is exactly the type of moment I strive for.
@rancoredmalone One thing I did to boost aggro was also to look at 2-for-1s hurting aggro too much. (CA against the opponent's cards being different from CA solely for your cards.) E.g. this meant taking out Arc Trail and Arc Lightning / Flames of the Firebrand which too many times broke aggro plans essentially by themselves.
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I wish all archetypes could be equally hated. Or loved, but the former better reflects the mindset of the vocal portion of the player base. My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
Any of y'all done anything with an 180 card peasant cube? Considering rebuilding at that #, just so rarely have more than 4 players.
I tried to build a small cube a long time ago, but the problem is that you can't get the density of cards needed for archetypes. For example aggro needs good one drops to work, but you if you add 5-6 aggro one drops in white you run out of cube space quickly @180. I believe it's not possible to build a proper cube at that size, unless you create one that is just full of generic midrange/goodstuff cards, which is rather boring from my pov.
I also only play with four people usually and I strongly recommend using a different draft method instead of a smaller cube. We for example have 'burn draft' system. A pack has 15 cards like usual. First you pick one and burn one (to avoid that a lucky players gets two bombs immediately), then pick two, burn two until only five cards are left and then pick two, burn three. Six packs per player for a total of 360 cards and each player ends up with 42 cards, which are of higher quality than the 45 you get from a regular draft. This works really well with my 405 cube.
Have you ever tried 20 guild slots? My first thought was also 10 (or that range, in case I decided to go unbalanced).
How does the mana feel? I dislike non-singleton, do you think it'd still work if I did something like include the thriving/vivid cycles in place of the duplicates?
Any cards you've currently 'banned' for power-level reasons?
What draft methods do you prefer at each player #?
- I haven't tried more guild slots. We went with 1 per guild and stuck with it. I think you can safely go up to 20. We tend to have enough playables every time so a couple extra cards that are undesirable for a drafter shouldn't make the format that much worse. I've thought about trying it myself more than once and might go that route as well. At the moment I have enough trouble cutting mono colored cards as is, so it's going to be rough if I do.
- Note that we count the hybrids as 'colorless' in this cube. In a slightly lower powered cube I'd love to run more of them because they are so flexible.
- The mana feels alright. I'd rather have some of the untapped multilands like City or Gemstone Mine instead of Evolving Wilds, but since the cube only runs cards that have an uncommon printing in the new frame they're out. Thriving/Vivid cycles instead of duplicates should work like a charm. The biggest reason we went with multiple Wilds is that they also work Brainstorm and Mayhem Devil. Also, they give me a couple of flexible slots to work with should I need to make room for something, whereas running a whole cycle feels more set in stone.
- I took out Skullclamp for power level reasons. Even though every deck should have some answers to it, the card is just too overpowering. It basically invalidated all other cards in a pack as one of the few autopicks in the cube. Sprout Swarm, Mother of Runes and Palace Jailer are on my watch list. They have a tendency to take over the game when not answered quickly. Isochron Scepter is very powerful as well, but needs a certain deck style and needs to be built around. Other cards I've cut are Sensei's Divining Top and Aether Vial, both for being powerful but inconsistent. I think they're fine to run, but have gotten some OMG BROKEN reactions from players as well. Top went very well with the fetchland package though.
If you're looking at a non-modern frame cube, the obvious ban is Sol Ring. I'd advise you to be careful with lands like Maze of Ith and Library of Alexandria (most cubes ban this one) as they are super powerful, are hard to interact with and can lead to bad experience. On the other hand, a small cube is easier to balance because you see more cards out of the cube. Running Wasteland, Strip Mine, Pillage, Acidic Slime, and maybe 1 or 2 more goes a long way towards giving each deck at least 1 or 2 outs to such a powerful land.
In the end, it's up to you where you want the powerlevel to end up. We went with quite a high power level for this one, so more cards are acceptable. I wouldn't fault anyone to cut down a bit and cut the abovementioned cards, along with the Curses, Warhammer, Bombardment, Grafted Wargear and such.
- I prefer 'Minneapolis draft' for 2 players, something Ryan Overturf seems to have thought up (he's also the Twobert guy, he basically made 180 cubes popular over the last year). It's 8 packs of 7 and you pick 1, pick 2, pick 2, burn 2. It's fast and you don't table as much with 2 players.
We don't draft with 4 as much, but when we do we just draft 3x15. We've also done 3x15 with 2 players and burn a random card in between picks to emulate a 3rd and 4th player.
Edit: 180 lends itself very well to themed cubes. I made a very fun artifact matters cube last year that has plenty of cool cards that are too narrow to make it into regular peasant cubes but work well as a collection.
A half year on - how are folks feeling about the Scurry Oak/Ivy Lane Denizen combo?
How's it been for you? I personally only play Scurry Oak and have been fairly happy with the card. Is Ivy Lane Denizen worth the inclusion? I mean, I have been looking for more cards that interact favorably with Herd Baloth, which seems inherently powerful but has turned out to be difficult to consistently put +1/+1 counters on.
A half year on - how are folks feeling about the Scurry Oak/Ivy Lane Denizen combo?
How's it been for you? I personally only play Scurry Oak and have been fairly happy with the card. Is Ivy Lane Denizen worth the inclusion? I mean, I have been looking for more cards that interact favorably with Herd Baloth, which seems inherently powerful but has turned out to be difficult to consistently put +1/+1 counters on.
I actually cut Ivy Lane when I added Scurry Oak due to a slight fear of adding a 2 card win combo (Ivy Lane Denizen had always been a bit fringe). I wanted to see if anyone had tried it out
Well Scurry Oak isn't going anywhere for me, but I'm either adding Ivy Lane Denizen (and maybe more stuff that puts a +1/+1 counter on a creature) or I'm cutting Herd Baloth - which I'd really rather not do, as I love the card, but it's hard to trigger in my cube atm.
I get what you're saying though about 2-card, same-color infinite combos causing angst. I might have to fight with some people in my playgroup that hate that type of thing.
I've been considering beefing up my reanimation suite for a while, maybe making it a full blown archetype rather than just minor support. And some of the new cards are not only great at getting themselves into the graveyard but are also decent fatties for this line of play. Colossal Skyturtle Greater Tanuki Mirrorshell Crab
Any other good ones? I'm a little picky in that I only run actual common/uncommon printings (no gold symbols, which means I can't cram in the Commander Black Reanimate I just got), and price is a concern, so I'm not sure how many will make it in, but suggestions are welcomed.
Chart a Course is both good card draw for aggressive decks and a good discard outlet for reanimator.
Frantic Search is one of the best discard outlets available and not as narrow as Careful Study. It's instant speed, doesn't cost anything if you have three lands on the battlefield and digs two cards deep. CU/be reanimator can never be Legacy reanimator where you want to reanimate turn 1 ideally. It's also playable in aggressive tempo decks.
Diabolic Servitude is a playable reanimation spell that is great value in any midrange deck. It's slow for reanimator, but not as slow as Unburial Rites for example, which isn't even something I'd consider for a true reanimator deck.
Psychatog is a fun card and it is an ok discard outlet for Dimir. It's not necessary by any means though.
Thank you, both. The more I look into it, the more I realize I can't just add reanimation cards and hope it works. If I'm going to do this, I need setup cards (get the creatures in the graveyard), reanimation, and payoff (utility creatures or fatties worthy of being reanimated). Any cards that can fill two of these roles is especially good - and those will generally be fatties that throw themselves into the graveyard.
So, to make it a viable archetype, how many cards do I need of each type in a 400 card cube? How many setup? How many reanimator? How many big targets?
Big creatures is probably where the big choice lies of if you want to go narrow (Eldrazi, Godzilla) or wider (like the new turtle and crab). If you go narrow I don't imagine you need too many, if wider targets then probably a couple in each color you want to be a reanimator color. 5-6 reanimation spells feels like enough at 400 I think?
Depends a bit on how you're planning to draft too I suppose, do you usually see most of your cards, or do you run a lot of sealed or something?
I have been thinking about the red sweepers in peasant. How would you rank them? I have added the percentage of peasant cubes that play this card according to cubecobra and the number of cubes that play this card in the mtgsalvation average peasant cube 2021 survey (thanks again calibretto!).
Big creatures is probably where the big choice lies of if you want to go narrow (Eldrazi, Godzilla) or wider (like the new turtle and crab). If you go narrow I don't imagine you need too many, if wider targets then probably a couple in each color you want to be a reanimator color. 5-6 reanimation spells feels like enough at 400 I think?
Depends a bit on how you're planning to draft too I suppose, do you usually see most of your cards, or do you run a lot of sealed or something?
We do not do sealed - it's draft every time, but we don't see all the cards (by deliberate design). It's a 400 card cube, and we usually have 6 players, though occasionally up to eight, which means we see 270-360 of the cards (68-90%). I added the extra cards to help ensure variety from one draft to the next.
Yeah, self-mill could be part of the setup. I'm not sure why, but I usually have a personal aversion to self-mill. I prefer looting so the cards pass through my hand and I have a choice of which one goes to hand vs. graveyard. Even in my Commander reanimator decks. Though I can think of 2-3 decks I've built that relied on dredge. I'll have to look at the options.
I have been thinking about the red sweepers in peasant. How would you rank them? I have added the percentage of peasant cubes that play this card according to cubecobra and the number of cubes that play this card in the mtgsalvation average peasant cube 2021 survey (thanks again calibretto!).
Of these options, I only run Slice and Dice. I consider it the best red sweeper because of its flexibility and because 4 damage hits so many more creatures than 2.
Of options not listed, I run Volcanic Fallout - it's an instant speed Pyroclasm that can't be countered. I really prefer the instant-speed over sorcery, even if it costs an extra mana. Granted, I only have 5 counterspells, so maybe I should consider changing, as there appear to be more instant speed options now (Flame Sweep, Fiery Cannonade, Vampires' Vengeance). It was just a pet card when I built the cube, and I hadn't really looked over the more recent options. They are more splashable, and Flame Sweep is tempting because I support the flying archetype; it's probably the easiest to gain advantage from.
I tried to get reanimator work in Rakdos and especially Golgari, but it never worked out well enough to justify support cards. Self-mill in Golgari is an archetype in my cube, but it's more a grindy midrange value deck and not a combo deck like Dimir reanimator (though occassionally you'll be able to reanimate a fatty early 'by accident'). In my opinion if you want a true reanimator deck there is no way around Dimir in peasant since reanimator is already a very fragile deck and self-mill can't reliably put big creatures into the graveyard.
Stinkweed Imp is still a good card for any reanimator deck as reanimator deck are control decks when they're not reanimating, so a flying deathtouch blocker that has a high chance to put a big creature into the yard when you get him back to your hand is always welcome as a backup plan. It is not really needed though and I would cut him if I needed the slot for something else.
On the issue of red sweepers, I guess it's a matter of asking what kinds of decks want them?
The answer, in my cube at least, is only X/r or, I suppose X/x/r control decks. I've been trying to make "Big Red" work as a control/ramp deck with mana-rocks, but it's not a super reliable thing. Along the same lines "Big Boros" isn't much of a thing either in peasant. Both of these decks were real in my rare cube, but they were based on the Wildfires, mana-rocks, and 5+toughness creatures. In peasant you just don't have these. Even Gruul Ramp, as I've lamented on another thread, takes a backseat to Simic or Mono-G Ramp, so it's not much of a thing. I think the reason that it doesn't work (at least for me) is that most of the ramp is creature-based, and red sweepers would kill your ramp in addition to any enemy attackers. Slice and Dice suffers from this issue a bit too, and it doesn't just kill your mana-elfs. It kills everything. This means it has to be played in a virtually creatureless deck imo (a difficult thing to do in the midrangey creature-based value environment of peasant.
This leaves Izzet Control, Rakdos Control, and any 3-color decks (which are not common in my cube). I think the controlly versions of Izzet and Rakdos would definitely play red sweepers, but they probably want the smaller ones - Pyroclasm and the like. This way they can play them with their Enigma Drakes and Crackling Drakes on the board and not have them die. Oh... and the 3-color decks probably want the sweepers to only have one red pip, as red isn't usually a primary color, and they need to be splashable.
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Ok, new question for you guys. How do you evaluate/rank the following?
I kind of like this new card, Roaring Earth, because of the cmc, that it can come down on turn 2 potentially, that it puts counters on stuff (a theme I support), and the fact that it can do/be something different if topdecked later in the game. That said, as I analyze it in a vacuum, it just seems to put so much less power on the board than something like Gaea's Anthem.
Interesting takes on peasant lists. A lot of ads too lol.
As somebody who doesn't get to play with my cube much these days, it has got me thinking about the oppressiveness of tokens, sweepers and free 2for1's vs aggro strats.
I think my list and a lot of others here leans more aggro on purpose than more typical peasant lists you see out there. But perhaps I should be doing more than iust supporting lots of aggro cards and instead consider axing high value road blocks like Sea Gate Oracle.
Anybody got opinions on this?
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I just don't see the interest in the Quartermaster. Now as for the other two, I think it comes down on the types of counters decks that pop up in your cube, i.e. how do counters end up on creatures? Generally I think the effects like to see several creatures having at least one counter rather than one creature getting several, so I'd think Alharu gets the nod over the Constable.
My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
I listened to the video/podcast. Idk... they seemed to be making pretty obvious points. Yes, aggro needs extra support; I assumed that was a known thing - especially in Peasant where all the dual-lands outside City of Brass CIPT. I disagree with what they were saying about cards like Palace Jailer, Timely Reinforcements, Pyroclasm, Slice and Dice, or all the Nekrataals potentially needing removed though. Just give aggro better tools, and more importantly - an abundance of tools - so that the aggro drafter doesn't have to choose between Lightning Bolt and some 2/1 for 1cmc that it really needs for it's deck to function. Like you said though... I think most people on MTGSalvation who are active are aware of this already. And maybe this is a commentary more on regular cubes than Peasant ones, but it has always amazed me at how little pros or people writing for SCG or something seem to know about modern cube design and seem to be stuck in the old days of "dragon cube" so to speak. I mean... Sea Gate Oracle? Really? It's a good card (though not what it used to be imo), but talking about axing it for power level concerns seems kind of crazy.
@HaccyZ
Thanks for your thoughts. I think I'd have to agree with you. Alharu is looking ever-so-slightly the most appealing to me as well. While the Quartermaster does have flying (and I do support Flyers), having no other ability is a bummer. Constable of the Realm looks interesting, but I'm not sure my cube has enough effects that put counters on OTHER creatures to make it work, and while it can fuel itself with Renowned, a 3/3 for 5cmc that has to attack and connect to get the effect seems questionable. In fact, it worries me that all three are just 3/3s - a vulnerable body at 5cmc. Why the first two couldn't have been designed to able to put a counter on themselves, I don't know.
I did agree with many of the points made in that podcast and have tried (hopefully with success) to have previously implemented those points in my Peasant Cube design. The main thing they said which I agree with is how Peasant is defined by value creatures/spells and addressing that aspect of cube design is very important to helping aggressive decks thrive. I am also conflicted by my general philosophy on cube, which is to push the power as high is possible. Here are some of the ideas I have implemented to push power towards aggro decks, calling out specific cards on the way.
1) Minimize cheap value cards for non-aggro decks.
At two or three mana, I think almost all cards should be geared towards aggro decks OR towards setup for the late-game decks. Taking the early game board advantage away from aggro decks is a surefire way to keep them from thriving. I have cut Wall of Omens, Sea Gate Oracle, Drown in Sorrow, Pyroclasm, Wall of Blossoms, Filigree Familiar, and more from cube for this reason. Certain of those cards might not be too powerful, but all of them slow down aggro while having almost no value for aggro.
There is certainly still room for powerful, value cards in Cube. A lot of the cards called out so far in this conversation and in the podcast DO work for most aggro decks- Palace Jailer, Whirler Rogue, Ravenous Chupacabra, and Flametongue Kavu. I think you can cultivate a Cube environment where the best value picks go in a variety of decks and late-game decks need to fight for those value cards before crafting the rest of their deck.
2) Cut generically good value cards for synergy cards.
A few years ago, I tried to shift the priorities for late-game Cube decks away from taking all the fixing/ramp and picking up their value later. As a Peasant Cube leaning towards multi-color, I had drafters who would take fixing early because they knew they could always get good value cards late. At that time, this meant cutting cards like Archaeomancer, Jilt and Orim's Thunder.
These days, this means leaving out Into the Roil, Treasure Keeper, The Eldest Reborn, and Cloudblazer. I think Peasant has plenty of powerful cards that are more interesting because they are more specific in power. For these cards I mentioned, I have replaced them with Careful Consideration, Ovalchase Dragster, Blood for Bones, and Kangee, Sky Warden. Your substitute cards may vary, but the overall goal is for decks to have to build towards their late game value instead of just having it automatically.
3) Allow value at higher mana costs and give aggro decks countermeasures.
I do support plenty of powerful non-aggro cards, but I hope to keep most of those at higher mana costs. Hopefully, this gives the aggro time to have countermeasures available or close the game out. When Feast of Succession was spoiled, one of the things I liked the most was the fact that it was mildly weak to pump spells to get above 4 toughness. When the control deck taps out for Slice and Dice but the aggro player has Fight as One available, a potentially game ending spell become almost meaningless. The Dimir control deck firing off Ribbons of Night at Vampire Nighthawk only to see an Undying Evil is exactly the type of moment I strive for.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
I tried to build a small cube a long time ago, but the problem is that you can't get the density of cards needed for archetypes. For example aggro needs good one drops to work, but you if you add 5-6 aggro one drops in white you run out of cube space quickly @180. I believe it's not possible to build a proper cube at that size, unless you create one that is just full of generic midrange/goodstuff cards, which is rather boring from my pov.
I also only play with four people usually and I strongly recommend using a different draft method instead of a smaller cube. We for example have 'burn draft' system. A pack has 15 cards like usual. First you pick one and burn one (to avoid that a lucky players gets two bombs immediately), then pick two, burn two until only five cards are left and then pick two, burn three. Six packs per player for a total of 360 cards and each player ends up with 42 cards, which are of higher quality than the 45 you get from a regular draft. This works really well with my 405 cube.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
You can find it here.
If you like to chat about it, let me know!
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
Thanks!
Have you ever tried 20 guild slots? My first thought was also 10 (or that range, in case I decided to go unbalanced).
How does the mana feel? I dislike non-singleton, do you think it'd still work if I did something like include the thriving/vivid cycles in place of the duplicates?
Any cards you've currently 'banned' for power-level reasons?
What draft methods do you prefer at each player #?
- Note that we count the hybrids as 'colorless' in this cube. In a slightly lower powered cube I'd love to run more of them because they are so flexible.
- The mana feels alright. I'd rather have some of the untapped multilands like City or Gemstone Mine instead of Evolving Wilds, but since the cube only runs cards that have an uncommon printing in the new frame they're out. Thriving/Vivid cycles instead of duplicates should work like a charm. The biggest reason we went with multiple Wilds is that they also work Brainstorm and Mayhem Devil. Also, they give me a couple of flexible slots to work with should I need to make room for something, whereas running a whole cycle feels more set in stone.
- I took out Skullclamp for power level reasons. Even though every deck should have some answers to it, the card is just too overpowering. It basically invalidated all other cards in a pack as one of the few autopicks in the cube. Sprout Swarm, Mother of Runes and Palace Jailer are on my watch list. They have a tendency to take over the game when not answered quickly. Isochron Scepter is very powerful as well, but needs a certain deck style and needs to be built around. Other cards I've cut are Sensei's Divining Top and Aether Vial, both for being powerful but inconsistent. I think they're fine to run, but have gotten some OMG BROKEN reactions from players as well. Top went very well with the fetchland package though.
If you're looking at a non-modern frame cube, the obvious ban is Sol Ring. I'd advise you to be careful with lands like Maze of Ith and Library of Alexandria (most cubes ban this one) as they are super powerful, are hard to interact with and can lead to bad experience. On the other hand, a small cube is easier to balance because you see more cards out of the cube. Running Wasteland, Strip Mine, Pillage, Acidic Slime, and maybe 1 or 2 more goes a long way towards giving each deck at least 1 or 2 outs to such a powerful land.
In the end, it's up to you where you want the powerlevel to end up. We went with quite a high power level for this one, so more cards are acceptable. I wouldn't fault anyone to cut down a bit and cut the abovementioned cards, along with the Curses, Warhammer, Bombardment, Grafted Wargear and such.
- I prefer 'Minneapolis draft' for 2 players, something Ryan Overturf seems to have thought up (he's also the Twobert guy, he basically made 180 cubes popular over the last year). It's 8 packs of 7 and you pick 1, pick 2, pick 2, burn 2. It's fast and you don't table as much with 2 players.
We don't draft with 4 as much, but when we do we just draft 3x15. We've also done 3x15 with 2 players and burn a random card in between picks to emulate a 3rd and 4th player.
Edit: 180 lends itself very well to themed cubes. I made a very fun artifact matters cube last year that has plenty of cool cards that are too narrow to make it into regular peasant cubes but work well as a collection.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
How's it been for you? I personally only play Scurry Oak and have been fairly happy with the card. Is Ivy Lane Denizen worth the inclusion? I mean, I have been looking for more cards that interact favorably with Herd Baloth, which seems inherently powerful but has turned out to be difficult to consistently put +1/+1 counters on.
I actually cut Ivy Lane when I added Scurry Oak due to a slight fear of adding a 2 card win combo (Ivy Lane Denizen had always been a bit fringe). I wanted to see if anyone had tried it out
I get what you're saying though about 2-card, same-color infinite combos causing angst. I might have to fight with some people in my playgroup that hate that type of thing.
Colossal Skyturtle
Greater Tanuki
Mirrorshell Crab
So far, I run:
Nezumi Graverobber
Victimize
Animate Dead
Unburial Rites
Araumi of the Dead Tide
Artisan of Kozilek
I have several others that get cards to hand, but these are the only ones that to truly reanimate to the battlefield.
Cards I know I should consider:
Reanimate
Exhume
Dread Return
Dance of the Dead
Necromancy
The Eldest Reborn
Obsessive Stitcher
Any other good ones? I'm a little picky in that I only run actual common/uncommon printings (no gold symbols, which means I can't cram in the Commander Black Reanimate I just got), and price is a concern, so I'm not sure how many will make it in, but suggestions are welcomed.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
But Diabolic Servitude is one of my favorites.
Reanimator is probably my favorite archetype and I've always supported it.
Striped Riverwinder and Twisted Abomination don't require a discard outlet and are generally playable outside of reanimator.
Chart a Course is both good card draw for aggressive decks and a good discard outlet for reanimator.
Frantic Search is one of the best discard outlets available and not as narrow as Careful Study. It's instant speed, doesn't cost anything if you have three lands on the battlefield and digs two cards deep. CU/be reanimator can never be Legacy reanimator where you want to reanimate turn 1 ideally. It's also playable in aggressive tempo decks.
Diabolic Servitude is a playable reanimation spell that is great value in any midrange deck. It's slow for reanimator, but not as slow as Unburial Rites for example, which isn't even something I'd consider for a true reanimator deck.
Psychatog is a fun card and it is an ok discard outlet for Dimir. It's not necessary by any means though.
Obviously any fatty will work well in reanimator and you run pretty few compared to my cube. Some cards I run that you don't run: Warden of the Woods, Sifter Wurm, Archfiend of Sorrows, Jetting Glasskite, Trostani's Summoner.
Any hexproof creature like Plated Crusher or Scaled Behemoth will also work well.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
Setup cards I am running:
Jeskai Elder
Looter il-Kor
Thirst for Discovery
Dragon's Rage Channeler
Tomebound Lich
Zephyr Boots
Hazoret's Monument
Setup cards to consider:
Faithless Looting
Chart a Course
Nightveil Sprite
Obsessive Stitcher
Psychatog
Mask of Memory
Tortured Existence
Fatties that put themselves in the graveyard:
Colossal Skyturtle
Greater Tanuki
Mirrorshell Crab
Krosan Tusker
Striped Riverwinder
Twisted Abomination
Waker of Waves
Titanoth Rex
So, to make it a viable archetype, how many cards do I need of each type in a 400 card cube? How many setup? How many reanimator? How many big targets?
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Depends a bit on how you're planning to draft too I suppose, do you usually see most of your cards, or do you run a lot of sealed or something?
My 2-Player Signed Legacy Cube
My Lord of the Rings Cube
Pyroclasm
17% - 26
Slice and Dice
11,7% - 22
Shower of Coals
4,6% - 8
Volcanic Torrent
2% - 8
Fast // Furious
2,6% - 7
Flame Sweep
6,8% - 5
Meteor Blast
2,3% - 4
Breath of Darigaaz
5% - 2
Sulfurous Blast
3.9% - 2
Fiery Cannonade
11% - 1
Cone of Flame
4,7% - 1
Vampires' Vengeance
0,8% - 1
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
We do not do sealed - it's draft every time, but we don't see all the cards (by deliberate design). It's a 400 card cube, and we usually have 6 players, though occasionally up to eight, which means we see 270-360 of the cards (68-90%). I added the extra cards to help ensure variety from one draft to the next.Yeah, self-mill could be part of the setup. I'm not sure why, but I usually have a personal aversion to self-mill. I prefer looting so the cards pass through my hand and I have a choice of which one goes to hand vs. graveyard. Even in my Commander reanimator decks. Though I can think of 2-3 decks I've built that relied on dredge. I'll have to look at the options.Of these options, I only run Slice and Dice. I consider it the best red sweeper because of its flexibility and because 4 damage hits so many more creatures than 2.
Of options not listed, I run Volcanic Fallout - it's an instant speed Pyroclasm that can't be countered. I really prefer the instant-speed over sorcery, even if it costs an extra mana. Granted, I only have 5 counterspells, so maybe I should consider changing, as there appear to be more instant speed options now (Flame Sweep, Fiery Cannonade, Vampires' Vengeance). It was just a pet card when I built the cube, and I hadn't really looked over the more recent options. They are more splashable, and Flame Sweep is tempting because I support the flying archetype; it's probably the easiest to gain advantage from.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Stinkweed Imp is still a good card for any reanimator deck as reanimator deck are control decks when they're not reanimating, so a flying deathtouch blocker that has a high chance to put a big creature into the yard when you get him back to your hand is always welcome as a backup plan. It is not really needed though and I would cut him if I needed the slot for something else.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
The answer, in my cube at least, is only X/r or, I suppose X/x/r control decks. I've been trying to make "Big Red" work as a control/ramp deck with mana-rocks, but it's not a super reliable thing. Along the same lines "Big Boros" isn't much of a thing either in peasant. Both of these decks were real in my rare cube, but they were based on the Wildfires, mana-rocks, and 5+toughness creatures. In peasant you just don't have these. Even Gruul Ramp, as I've lamented on another thread, takes a backseat to Simic or Mono-G Ramp, so it's not much of a thing. I think the reason that it doesn't work (at least for me) is that most of the ramp is creature-based, and red sweepers would kill your ramp in addition to any enemy attackers. Slice and Dice suffers from this issue a bit too, and it doesn't just kill your mana-elfs. It kills everything. This means it has to be played in a virtually creatureless deck imo (a difficult thing to do in the midrangey creature-based value environment of peasant.
This leaves Izzet Control, Rakdos Control, and any 3-color decks (which are not common in my cube). I think the controlly versions of Izzet and Rakdos would definitely play red sweepers, but they probably want the smaller ones - Pyroclasm and the like. This way they can play them with their Enigma Drakes and Crackling Drakes on the board and not have them die. Oh... and the 3-color decks probably want the sweepers to only have one red pip, as red isn't usually a primary color, and they need to be splashable.
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Ok, new question for you guys. How do you evaluate/rank the following?
Roaring Earth
Song of Freyalise
Gaea's Anthem
Curse of Predation (spoiler alert, this is the strongest)
Jiang Yanggu, Wildcrafter
And any others that I might be missing that you'd like to include with the same theme.
I kind of like this new card, Roaring Earth, because of the cmc, that it can come down on turn 2 potentially, that it puts counters on stuff (a theme I support), and the fact that it can do/be something different if topdecked later in the game. That said, as I analyze it in a vacuum, it just seems to put so much less power on the board than something like Gaea's Anthem.