I find multiplayer Commander to be far more strategic than any other form of Magic. It's less luck of the draw and more how you play. A duel is a lot like a game of bloody knuckles - two people keep hitting each other until one of them can't take it anymore. But multiplayer is more like great stories, real life, battle strategy, and political intrigue all rolled into one. The opportunity cost for overextending is greater, and you always have to consider the consequences of your actions, including how you are perceived by the other players. It can be less about what you are playing and more about how you are playing it - the abrasive or overly aggressive player will often face a combined threat, and people willing to develop skills at bluffing or deal-making can find greater success. The games are longer, giving you more time to develop and execute a strategy.
Given the multiplayer setting, there's less focus on winning (you're going to average 25% in a 4-player game). I've encountered too many 60-card players who only cared about winning, but far less among Commander players.
And as for EDH/Commander over 60-card, I like the combined consistency of building a strategy around one card with the variance of a singleton format that makes you work at it rather than just cramming four copies each of just ten cards. I find that each game plays a little different, giving each deck more replay value. In that respect, it's a bit like cube - each time you play, you'll have a different set of cards to work with.
The ongoing popularity of EDH is the most frustrating thing in MTG
It's... not a functional game. It's Candyland with Planeswalkers. Meaningless decision, waiting, waiting, waiting, meaningless decision, waiting, waiting, waiting, meaningless decision... repeat 100 times until someone draws Insurrection. Was it your Insurrection? If so, you "win"!
I can count the number of game-ending Insurrections that I've seen in 11 years of EDH/Commander on one hand (yes, I know that was just an example). On the other hand, I've played countless games that were epic, interactive, and memorable. Games where we struggled through near-certain death but used all of our resources, both on the table and in our heads, to claw our way back to victory. I've won some of those games, and I've lost some of them, but they were fun and amazing either way. Of course, not all games are like that, but you'll get some duds in every format, including cube (mana-screw, anyone?).
If your decisions are meaningless, you're either making the wrong decisions or you're playing with the wrong group (like wanting a casual game while playing with CEDH players who want to combo off on turn three).
Also, planeswalkers are very, very hard to keep alive in Commander. I have a superfriends deck, and it has to work incredibly hard to survive long enough to win. Most planeswalkers die within a turn or two and have three times the creatures to face down compared to a duel.
Having played Magic for 17 years and EDH/Commander for 11, I'd sooner call Standard Candyland than Commander.
I get the distinct feeling that many commentators have not played more than five games of EDH...
However, the quality of the games really does depend on the group. My personal favourite kinds of games involve 3-4 players with decent amounts of instant speed interaction and hate for various strategies.
Agreed.
Now for my own question regarding peasant cube - what do all of you do when someone drops out or doesn't show up? I mean, I've quit inviting certain people after multiple instances, but what do you do the day of? You invite enough people for an 8-player draft, but only 7 show up. Do you play multiplayer like my group, or do you give someone the buy and just have them sit there, bored for a while? I keep thinking there's got to be a better solution, but I can't find one. We've tried calling other people, but getting someone to show up last minute is a rough proposition.
If one person sits out a round in a 7-person cube draft, they get to read Twitter or get snacks for ~20 minutes
If you start a three-person game, three people are utterly miserable ( )
I usually sit the first round out myself as the host/owner. We usually re-pair as people finish rather than waiting for a set round time, so with 5 or 7 it works out just fine without breaks that go for too long.
I get the distinct feeling that many commentators have not played more than five games of EDH...
Well, for what it's worth, you're right. I've not played very much EDH or multiplayer Magic, but that isn't to say that I've played zero. I've been playing Magic since 1998, so I've certainly played my fair share of multiplayer games and I did dip my toe into EDH a bit when it was first starting to boom before it was monetized by WotC as "Commander". Multiplayer just isn't my jam for all the reasons I stated already. Like I said, I really like the Game Knights episodes from Command Zone and it looks like those people always have a blast playing that game. Heck, some of those decks even look really sweet and fun to play. It's really the politics of it all that turns me off from the experience. Making promises and exchanges to play with or against another opponent is just incredibly unappealing to me.
Now for my own question regarding peasant cube - what do all of you do when someone drops out or doesn't show up? I mean, I've quit inviting certain people after multiple instances, but what do you do the day of? You invite enough people for an 8-player draft, but only 7 show up. Do you play multiplayer like my group, or do you give someone the buy and just have them sit there, bored for a while? I keep thinking there's got to be a better solution, but I can't find one. We've tried calling other people, but getting someone to show up last minute is a rough proposition.
We regularly have 5 or 7 guys show up. It's definitely not preferred, but it happens. We normally play it just like _i0 said. We don't stick to round times (or even strict round numbers, for that matter). We draw lands for pairings and to see who gets the bye. First winner usually just plays the one who got the bye. We play two or three rounds and draft again. The person with the bye is normally just watching a nearby match, goldfishing their deck, shooting the ***** with the rest of us. It's really not a big deal.
Oh, yeah - the insinuation was that some of the comments were based on limited experience rather than none at all. As limited experience can also bias perception even more than just outside impressions. There are a hundred ways for EDH (just like any format of Magic) to be uninteresting but the fun is emergent gameplay from 100 card singleton offers means that there is more reason to keep coming back to play with the same old group. In that respect, it is quite like Cube. I remember how two people in my previous MtG group had one Modern deck each - Affinity and Infect, respectively - and I could never understand how they did not grow bored of playing against each other every week with those same decks.
Seven is definitely a tricky number. I do not think there is much of an alternative to just running with it and having one person stay on the bench each round while ensuring that they can at least enjoy some form of interaction with the rest. I'd probably disencourage external entertainment like Netflix since it'd take them out of the situation of 'Magic Night'. A good deal of people already watch Magic games on Youtube and such; seeing them live and being able to comment on plays that have happened should be all the better. However, if that is a regular occurrence, you might even want to consider how fast the average game of a deck built using your CU/be ends up being. You would want to encourage aggro to ensure that bench time is minimised.
[I started posting events in our Facebook group a month or more in advance. I include a poll so people can vote on which weekend works best for them in a given month and we've just been going with the weekend that has the most people voting. If people commit to cube on X weekend, then they usually stick to it.
I used to do it a month in advance but people just seemed to completely forget or suddenly have an assignment they had to do that night. It was way worse than giving them a weeks notice. When they know full well what they have to do that week. Basically, last-minute cancelling or completely forgetting is a lot less likely.
Apparently doing it around Christmas/new year is actually a lot worse than randomly during the year, partially that is due to people going home from the Uni colleges. Harder still because my original regulars graduated and went back home. I tried to get it done between Christmas and New Year but it seemed everyone was away until the second week of Jan.
The issue appears that there is a lot of "I hate draft" people from among the younger/new folks. When I was at Uni we used to draft regularly but since that's not been a thing recently they just haven't done it, I guess. Plus deck building appears to be their favourite part of playing magic (hence having infinite EDH decks and constantly building new ones) But if I can never convince them to cube I don't think I can show them it's better than booster draft or Arena draft.
I like commander but if I organise a cube I want to cube. Unlikely the newer players I got to 4 EDH decks and stopped since I can't carry more I like all 4 of them but I never felt the need to build another one (every Idea I have seems to overlap too much with what I have to be honest).
There is 0% of getting anything like a GP around here. I guess there is the one big store but its a 40 min drive away and their tournaments start at 10 am on the weekend :s. My LGS closed down last year
I have 2x of Shadows over Innistrad boxes in my cupboard I was supposed to draft with my friends (people that introduced me to magic, not the people from the club) but they have a weird idea about draft in that they don't believe in swiss pairings so everyone has to play everyone and it takes all day and night to finish a draft. Then there is the prospect of Cube on top of that, for new sets they haven't really kept up on.
Herding people is such hard work ergh! they just have so many strange quirks and refuse to just let me do it my way.
Should I just keep bringing it to every magic event I ever go to until they give in and play it?
Man, Narvuntien, sounds like you got it bad from all directions. I'd say you just gotta keep suggesting it as an option. Maybe give in a bit and make a trek out to that big store that's 40 min out? You might luck out and get at least three more willing to draft with you there. Good luck. I hope it works out for you.
I'd probably disencourage external entertainment like Netflix since it'd take them out of the situation of 'Magic Night'. A good deal of people already watch Magic games on Youtube and such; seeing them live and being able to comment on plays that have happened should be all the better.
I have a TV on the wall in my basement where we play, so I usually throw up whatever coverage is happening that weekend. It serves as background noise and for something to do while we wait between matches or if we have a bye. That doesn't stop the other guys from pulling up some sports game or something on their phones, though.
Yeah, I guess. I resisted the change at first because I like Ranger pumping itself, but the three drop unicorn is just easier to cast. I've been happy with the change.
While I like Genju of the Cedars in concept, I do not think I have ever seen it played.
Contagion is worthwhile in my opinion. Even when it does not outright kill, it can nullify creatures or act as a combat trick that lets you kill the two targets. It might be slightly overcosted outside the alternative cost but does not lack that much behind something like Incremental Blight - especially considering the timing differences. Free spells are always nice for catching people off-guard, and unlike Force of Will, Contagion can actually break even in terms of direct card advantage (FoW has a higher floor in terms of preventing opponents from gaining advantage card or tempo advantage, of course).
Thus far, in my opinion, Demonic Tutor has been a nice enabler for more concentrated decks while also acting as a toolbox for any black deck, hardly resulting in the same cards being searched every time. Given how few good tutor effects the format has, I would say that they cannot make games too similar because the reliability through redundancy is just not there. Adding something like Demonic Tutor adds a sprinkle of reliability to archetypes which need it.
I think the 2 power which enables aggressive applications of Deathtouch is probably enough to motivate Mire Triton, unless you are really low on Aristocrat fuel otherwise.
Well, Reaver is certainly going to be more front-loaded in that regard but if you are already powering an Aristocrat, you have the means to make Enforcer die. Thus, I would definitely cut Lazotep Reaver before Orzhov Enforcer.
Commander is the worst format of Magic that there is and it reinforces my belief that there is nothing that a Magic player hates more than having to play fun, fair, interactive Magic as Richard Garfield intended. Everything about it is awful and its neat rules are there just to hide the fact that it's Thermonuclear Chaos Vintage. Even the community is the worst that there is.
There are numerous reasons why I hate it. Let's start with the format itself:
1.) Having to shuffle 100 cards is an abomination. I just kind of pretend that my minimal shuffling is sufficient and everyone else also seems to have mutually agreed.
2.) It's 4 players, so what happens in the game is irrelevant. Only politics matter. But everyone will get angry with you if you openly team up with someone or kingmake even though that's politics.
The format should be 2v2.
3.) Commander damage requires an entire spread sheet. Why? It's not like you're going to make is past turn 4.
4.) Because everyone has 40 life and there are 3 other players at the table, playing fun, fair, interactive Magic becomes impossible and the only reasonably effective way of killing other players is to play some sort of broken combo. Another issue with players having 40 life is that your life total is absolutely meaningless, so **** it, why not Necro for 39?
Players should have 20 or less life.
5.) You should be able to kill, exile, tuck, etc. a Commander. If players had to actively work to keep their commander safe it would be better.
In general, Magic players want the easiest, low effort way of winning the game possible. Any card with any degree of risk or downside associated with it is immediately shunned. This attitude is why Shroud was replaced with Hexproof and why having your commander die comes with little consequence. Having to manage risk is good game design, Bumper Bowling isn't.
Let's talk about what cards are allowed in the format:
1.) Why are Sundering Titan or Armageddon or Sway of the Stars seen as bad but not Wheel of Fortune? Man, I sure do love having the most important decision I will make all game (mulligan) rendered meaningless. Wow, I got a no land hand off of this Wheel on turn two before I could do anything, what fun! In half of the dozen or so games of Commander that I've played, I end up not being able to plan on having any of the cards currently in my hand. If they're going to ban cards because they're not fun, then they should go ahead and ban a lot more things.
2.) Why bother playing 100 card singleton if you're allowed to have 16 copies of each card because you're playing the original card + 15 tutors? Plus, your commander. So all of this 100 card nonsense is just a charade, after your lands and autoinclude mana (birds of paradise, mana elves, sol ring, mana crypt, mox diamond, etc.) and tutors you're really only playing with a 20-30 card deck.
They should ban everything that tutors for non-lands. Yes, everything. There will be some collateral damage, but it will be worth it. Then maybe these non-interactive combo decks won't be consistent.
3.) Why bother playing anything that's not an infinite combo? They should ban all of those too.
Combo doesn't actually count as Magic. All combo decks without exception* are merely accidents as a result of this game being around for 27 years with 20,000 unique cards in it. Kiki Jiki was not designed with Pestermite in mind, it was just a value card. Dark Depths was designed to require actually paying 30 mana over the course of multiple turns to summon a huge monster, it was not intended that you could instead just slap down Vampire Hexmage. Tinker was not designed with Blightseel Colossus in mind. Protean Hulk was not intended to work with Flash. Nomads en-Kor is a 1 mana 1/1 with, "fixed banding" on it, it was not designed as combo enabler.
This is just blatant fact. Through the Breach was from the COK Block, from 2005. Emrakul is from Rise of the Eldrazi, from 2012 I believe. They were never intended to work with one another.
*To be fair, Hidetsugu and Hidetsugu's Second Rite were in the same set. So it's not as if combo is absolutely never intended, it's just kind of rare and harder to pull off when it is. Maybe I'm wrong about this, I've only been playing magic for 2 years but that's how combo seems to me - 95% mistakes - because all of the notable ones and even a bunch of the ones in Pauper use weird cards made years apart that were never designed with each other in mind.
Now let's get to the playerbase. Yes, that's awful too.
1.) It's the least balanced, most rapacious format that exists but it has the most casuals playing it. So instead of playing a fair format and having fun games, casuals would rather play the most broken format possible and then get mad at your when you play a deck that's actually good. They hate the player instead of the game. If you've ever read Ender's Game, all casual commander players are Bonzo Madrid.
2.) There are three types of Commander players:
a.) Casuals who want to play dumb ***** and jack up the price of random cards like Forest Bears or Three Visits. Yes, let's spend a ton of money just to lose every single game with Squirrel Tribal, neat. They've correctly determined that top tier decks are awful but they refuse to ensconce what they want the format to be into any sort of actual change to the rules. When something is broken in Legacy or Standard or Modern or Pauper and people don't want it ruining the game anymore, they want it banned. They don't shame people for playing the overpowered deck in question. Players of every other constructed format in Magic hate the game, not the player.
b.) Spikes who play the top tier decks because they're legal but their libertarianism/aspergers prevents them from acknowledging that the game would be better without unfun things that ruin the game, instead preferring a laissez-faire free-for-all where anything goes (as long as it's flash hulk) and the only viable deck is Flash Hulk because god forbid we ever ban cards. I died on turn 4, I had to shuffle my entire 100 card deck 1.5 times a turn because I have all 10 fetches and 15 tutors, I spent more time shuffling than I actually did playing. I tried to go off with my Flash Hulk on turn 3 but everyone else Force of Willed me and then someone else Flash Hulked a turn later. Yay! What an, "interactive" game!
c.) People who play with group A and purport to hate CEDH players and infinite combo, but then assemble an infinite combo and kill everyone anyways. I was going to insult group C, but then I realized that the wildly fluctuating power level expectations of everyone that plays this format (in lieu of just changing what's legal, like literally every other format of Magic does) make it impossible to have a deck that's aligned with everyone else's power level. Group C players are just a result of this format's awful playerbase and wild west nature.
3.) The format is sold as this fun intro format... despite being the least balanced, most chaotic, biggest money pit imaginable. It's the worst introduction to Magic I could possibly think of. Buy this $40 precon so I can rip off your head and ***** down your neck with my $243 copy of Mana Crypt that I got from an out of print book that I purchased over 20 years ago!!! Awesome!
Group A commander players just want to control what everyone else can and cannot play (which is what cube is all about) so they can play some stupid gimmick. Group B just wants to play with broken cards that ruin the game. Group C wants neither or is somewhere in-between. All three of these groups I think would enjoy playing/curating their own cube far more than commander.
Group A can put Squirrel Tribal and 300 other silly gimmick cards into their cube, Group B can build the MTGO Vintage cube.
But because commander has become so popular, it's choking out other forms of non-competition Magic. That's a shame. Even commander players I think would enjoy cube more than commander.
I'm not really interested in tracking artists, although I guess the Iguanart could be pretty good on pure power. Also like the flavour text.
What about house-ruling Spirit of the season so that you "choose your own season"? (I don't know how the hell you could make a working definition of the start/end of seasons anyway).
And if we are in non-regular-card-frame-land: What about Growth Charm (internal card-link didn't seem to work)?
EDIT: Was "hell" always allowed on here, or has the sensor become more lenient? Let's find out: **** ****** *****. Guess not
What about house-ruling Spirit of the season so that you "choose your own season"? (I don't know how the hell you could make a working definition of the start/end of seasons anyway).
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the design by turning it into a modular creature like Knight of Autumn? As for defining which season it is, a calendar or Google solves that in a few seconds. For 2020:
Spring begins with the Vernal Equinox, Thursday, March 19, 2020, 11:50 p.m.
Summer begins with the Summer Solstice, Saturday, June 20, 2020, 5:44 p.m.
Autumn begins with the Autumnal Equinox, Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 9:31 a.m.
Winter begins with the Winter Solstice, Monday, December 21, 2020, 5:02 a.m.
Ooh, meaningless off-topic talk. Been missing that:)
I've never heard that the seasons are defined that way before. Where I live, the summer solstice is known as "midsummer". Kinda weird to have summer start with midsummer. And most years autumn is well underway by late September. And talking about most of December as autumn is nonsensical. December is winter.
Actually, wikipedia tells me that "Some cultures regard the autumnal equinox as "mid-autumn", while others with a longer temperature lag treat it as the start of autumn". Meteorologists (and most of the temperate countries in the southern hemisphere)[3] use a definition based on Gregorian calendar months, with autumn being September, October, and November in the northern hemisphere,[4] and March, April, and May in the southern hemisphere. In North America, autumn traditionally starts with the September equinox (21 to 24 September)[5] and ends with the winter solstice (21 or 22 December).[6] In traditional East Asian solar term, autumn starts on or around 8 August and ends on or about 7 November. In Ireland, the autumn months according to the national meteorological service, Met Éireann, are September, October and November."
I also found this: Autumn is defined by meterologists as when the local daily mean temperature is between 0°C and 10°C and falling. That would mean that large parts of the world doesn't have autumn.
I have been isolated from being able to play and therefore have not kept my physical CU/be quite updated so I sadly cannot say. But I am also interested in the opinions of others who added it since for me, it was a late recognition when I realised how many ways there are to trigger it, including on successive turns.
I'm curious about people's experiences with the following cards: Genju of the Fields and Genju of the Cedars - In both enchantress and non-enchantress contexts
I've played with:
White Genju - Probably the best of the bunch, it has non-keyworded lifelink so you can activate it multiple times a turn and gain 2-4-6-8 etc. life with each combat it's in.
Red Genju - It's a one drop 6/1, pretty good. While it does eat up your turn 2 play, you're still presenting 6 power on turn 2. Ball Lightning is RRR. Another interesting card of note is Zektar Shrine Expedition, it's also pretty good. If they have an open board you can swing for wumbo damage and if not you can start trading extra mountains for their creatures.
Green Genju - It's more durable than the red Genju. It only saw play once in my cube before I ended up cutting it. What happened was that I just happened to rip a Rishadan Port top deck the turn after my friend played it. That doesn't mean it's a bad card, I just wanted another grteen spirit or arcane spell or whatever and needed to make room.
Rainbow Genju - When my cube was still limited to Pauper I added this in as an incentive to go for 5 color. It was pretty awesome but by the time you set it up you were often almost dead so it wasn't unfair. Now that my cube has expanded to 720 cards I just haven't seen it in a while. It's probably a little worse in relation to the rest of my cards because I play cards of all rarities now but on the other hand I'm playing better fixing so it should be easier to cast. IMO I'd break rarity for this card, it's not really overpowered, it's a fun card.
I ended up cutting the white one because I wanted white creatures to be overall pretty bad and require synergy like Banding, Flagbearers, or Crusade effects to function well, so having white Genju actually be good on its own as opposed to a 5 mana 3/3 Banding Sliver or whatever didn't really appeal to me. I cut the green one not because it's a bad card, but because I have a heavy Spirit/Arcane Craft theme in my cube and even though the Genjus turn into spirits, they don't count for Spirit craft upon ETB. I still play the red and rainbow one, I've never tried the blue or black one.
I'm glad you brought them up, the concept is real cool. I should add some more of them back in.
Just had a UW tempo deck and Faerie Vandal was an absolute MVP in the deck. It would often get out of control and the fact that you can hold it and a counterspell up at the same time is super crucial. Highly recommend it if you haven't tested it yet
Let's get a discussion going. How many red one drops do you play and which ones are your favorite? I currently run these 7: Jackal Pup: If you are supporting red aggro you must play this card, the only straight up 2 power one drop in red. If you are the all out aggressive deck the downside is rarely relevant. Goblin Banneret: A solid one drop that can attack hard and boost up your other creatures. Another must run in my opinion Monastery Swiftspear: Not as good as it is in constructed, but still one of the must run one drops. A hard to block threat that starts getting in right away. Some people like it in spells matter UR but I personally don't think it does enough in that type of deck. Stonewright: I think this is one of the most underrated one drops in peasant. It'll probably one get in a point or two of damage early game, but it's a one drop that can not be ignored as the game goes on. Soul bond it with an evasive creature and your opponent needs an answer ASAP. Village Messenger: Being able to attack turn one is nice and then when it transforms it is a solid beater. I don't like that this card is so much better on the play than the draw, but oh well. Goblin Glory Chaser: Pretty similar to the village messenger honestly. Pretty solid overall, but again much better on the play than the draw. Goblin Motivator: Can be deceptively powerful. Not the best in mono red because most of your strongest creatures will already have haste, but really shines in a multicolor aggro deck.
Some that I don't play are: Lightning Brawler: I personally prefer stonewright, although I haven't tested the brawler admittedly. I just don't see the dash being as relevant as the soulbond. But if anyone else has any experience I would be happy to hear it. Reckless Waif: Used to run this and I didn't love the play patterns that much. It was either a complete blowout or pretty awful, usually just dependent on if you are on the play or the draw. Definitely prefer village messenger. Scorch Spitter: Have not tested this guy yet. Kind of like a jackal pup, where it can attack for 2 as a one drop. Get's taken out easier but can always get in for at least one damage even when it's blocked. I want to test it. Fanatical Firebrand: Haven't tested yet. Seems decent, can get in a few points of damage and then can take out a one toughness creature or ping the opponent. Becomes slightly better in a BR deck with stuff like blood artist. Foundry Street Denizen: Good in mono red, not good in multicolor aggressive decks though. Wish it were any creature. Frenzied Goblin: I still need to test this guy. Seems pretty decent as a little mana sink, I always enjoy one drops that are still relevant into the mid game. Ghitu Lavarunner: Need to test it. It seems pretty weak to me though. You aren't able to consistently fill your grave as early in limited as you can in contstructed. Goblin Arsonist: Fine. Good in a sacrifice type deck, but very easy to ignore a lot of the time. Goblin Cohort: Just learned about this card. Has anyone tested it? It kind of seems like a better foundry street denizen, but I could totally be wrong. Goblin Fireslinger: Seems solid for providing reach, but kind of low impact overall. Never got around to testing it. Grim Initiate: Not a great aggressive creature, but another solid creature in the sacrifice deck. Can't underestimate first strike, even if it's just one power. Has anyone tried him out? Rigging Runner: Another one drop 1/1 First strike with upside. I like the look of it.
With that all being said, I think I am going to keep the 7 one drops I am currently playing and test out two of the ones I listed. Any recommendations for which to try out? Let's hear everyone's thoughts on red one drops! Which do you play, which have you tested that fell short, and that you consider "must play", and how many do you even have in your cube?
Frenzied Goblin is pretty solid. Not the best thing to t1, but using it to fill your curve on t3 and/or t4 is very nice.
Goblin Glory Chaser and Village Messenger never really worked out for me. They are really inconsistent to get going, and the menace didn't matter often enough (why block the 2/2 instead of the 3/2?).
When are you pumping Goblin Banneret? Ideally I'm tapping out from turns 1-4 in any aggro deck, and I would imagine a 2-3 drop is better if you're not pumping early.
Given the multiplayer setting, there's less focus on winning (you're going to average 25% in a 4-player game). I've encountered too many 60-card players who only cared about winning, but far less among Commander players.
And as for EDH/Commander over 60-card, I like the combined consistency of building a strategy around one card with the variance of a singleton format that makes you work at it rather than just cramming four copies each of just ten cards. I find that each game plays a little different, giving each deck more replay value. In that respect, it's a bit like cube - each time you play, you'll have a different set of cards to work with.I can count the number of game-ending Insurrections that I've seen in 11 years of EDH/Commander on one hand (yes, I know that was just an example). On the other hand, I've played countless games that were epic, interactive, and memorable. Games where we struggled through near-certain death but used all of our resources, both on the table and in our heads, to claw our way back to victory. I've won some of those games, and I've lost some of them, but they were fun and amazing either way. Of course, not all games are like that, but you'll get some duds in every format, including cube (mana-screw, anyone?).
If your decisions are meaningless, you're either making the wrong decisions or you're playing with the wrong group (like wanting a casual game while playing with CEDH players who want to combo off on turn three).
Also, planeswalkers are very, very hard to keep alive in Commander. I have a superfriends deck, and it has to work incredibly hard to survive long enough to win. Most planeswalkers die within a turn or two and have three times the creatures to face down compared to a duel.
Having played Magic for 17 years and EDH/Commander for 11, I'd sooner call Standard Candyland than Commander.Agreed.
Now for my own question regarding peasant cube - what do all of you do when someone drops out or doesn't show up? I mean, I've quit inviting certain people after multiple instances, but what do you do the day of? You invite enough people for an 8-player draft, but only 7 show up. Do you play multiplayer like my group, or do you give someone the buy and just have them sit there, bored for a while? I keep thinking there's got to be a better solution, but I can't find one. We've tried calling other people, but getting someone to show up last minute is a rough proposition.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
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If you start a three-person game, three people are utterly miserable (
I usually sit the first round out myself as the host/owner. We usually re-pair as people finish rather than waiting for a set round time, so with 5 or 7 it works out just fine without breaks that go for too long.
Well, for what it's worth, you're right. I've not played very much EDH or multiplayer Magic, but that isn't to say that I've played zero. I've been playing Magic since 1998, so I've certainly played my fair share of multiplayer games and I did dip my toe into EDH a bit when it was first starting to boom before it was monetized by WotC as "Commander". Multiplayer just isn't my jam for all the reasons I stated already. Like I said, I really like the Game Knights episodes from Command Zone and it looks like those people always have a blast playing that game. Heck, some of those decks even look really sweet and fun to play. It's really the politics of it all that turns me off from the experience. Making promises and exchanges to play with or against another opponent is just incredibly unappealing to me.
We regularly have 5 or 7 guys show up. It's definitely not preferred, but it happens. We normally play it just like _i0 said. We don't stick to round times (or even strict round numbers, for that matter). We draw lands for pairings and to see who gets the bye. First winner usually just plays the one who got the bye. We play two or three rounds and draft again. The person with the bye is normally just watching a nearby match, goldfishing their deck, shooting the ***** with the rest of us. It's really not a big deal.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Seven is definitely a tricky number. I do not think there is much of an alternative to just running with it and having one person stay on the bench each round while ensuring that they can at least enjoy some form of interaction with the rest. I'd probably disencourage external entertainment like Netflix since it'd take them out of the situation of 'Magic Night'. A good deal of people already watch Magic games on Youtube and such; seeing them live and being able to comment on plays that have happened should be all the better. However, if that is a regular occurrence, you might even want to consider how fast the average game of a deck built using your CU/be ends up being. You would want to encourage aggro to ensure that bench time is minimised.
I used to do it a month in advance but people just seemed to completely forget or suddenly have an assignment they had to do that night. It was way worse than giving them a weeks notice. When they know full well what they have to do that week. Basically, last-minute cancelling or completely forgetting is a lot less likely.
Apparently doing it around Christmas/new year is actually a lot worse than randomly during the year, partially that is due to people going home from the Uni colleges. Harder still because my original regulars graduated and went back home. I tried to get it done between Christmas and New Year but it seemed everyone was away until the second week of Jan.
The issue appears that there is a lot of "I hate draft" people from among the younger/new folks. When I was at Uni we used to draft regularly but since that's not been a thing recently they just haven't done it, I guess. Plus deck building appears to be their favourite part of playing magic (hence having infinite EDH decks and constantly building new ones) But if I can never convince them to cube I don't think I can show them it's better than booster draft or Arena draft.
I like commander but if I organise a cube I want to cube. Unlikely the newer players I got to 4 EDH decks and stopped since I can't carry more I like all 4 of them but I never felt the need to build another one (every Idea I have seems to overlap too much with what I have to be honest).
There is 0% of getting anything like a GP around here. I guess there is the one big store but its a 40 min drive away and their tournaments start at 10 am on the weekend :s. My LGS closed down last year
I have 2x of Shadows over Innistrad boxes in my cupboard I was supposed to draft with my friends (people that introduced me to magic, not the people from the club) but they have a weird idea about draft in that they don't believe in swiss pairings so everyone has to play everyone and it takes all day and night to finish a draft. Then there is the prospect of Cube on top of that, for new sets they haven't really kept up on.
Herding people is such hard work ergh! they just have so many strange quirks and refuse to just let me do it my way.
Should I just keep bringing it to every magic event I ever go to until they give in and play it?
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I have a TV on the wall in my basement where we play, so I usually throw up whatever coverage is happening that weekend. It serves as background noise and for something to do while we wait between matches or if we have a bye. That doesn't stop the other guys from pulling up some sports game or something on their phones, though.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Dreampod Druid
Genju of the Fields and Genju of the Cedars - In both enchantress and non-enchantress contexts
Good-Fortune Unicorn - Is it better than Juniper Order Ranger?
Contagion
Demonic Tutor - Does it make for diverse or similar gameplay?
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Contagion is worthwhile in my opinion. Even when it does not outright kill, it can nullify creatures or act as a combat trick that lets you kill the two targets. It might be slightly overcosted outside the alternative cost but does not lack that much behind something like Incremental Blight - especially considering the timing differences. Free spells are always nice for catching people off-guard, and unlike Force of Will, Contagion can actually break even in terms of direct card advantage (FoW has a higher floor in terms of preventing opponents from gaining advantage card or tempo advantage, of course).
Thus far, in my opinion, Demonic Tutor has been a nice enabler for more concentrated decks while also acting as a toolbox for any black deck, hardly resulting in the same cards being searched every time. Given how few good tutor effects the format has, I would say that they cannot make games too similar because the reliability through redundancy is just not there. Adding something like Demonic Tutor adds a sprinkle of reliability to archetypes which need it.
I support aristocrats heavily in black and red. I support grave decks in UB and to a lesser extent GB.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
Commander is the worst format of Magic that there is and it reinforces my belief that there is nothing that a Magic player hates more than having to play fun, fair, interactive Magic as Richard Garfield intended. Everything about it is awful and its neat rules are there just to hide the fact that it's Thermonuclear Chaos Vintage. Even the community is the worst that there is.
There are numerous reasons why I hate it. Let's start with the format itself:
1.) Having to shuffle 100 cards is an abomination. I just kind of pretend that my minimal shuffling is sufficient and everyone else also seems to have mutually agreed.
2.) It's 4 players, so what happens in the game is irrelevant. Only politics matter. But everyone will get angry with you if you openly team up with someone or kingmake even though that's politics.
The format should be 2v2.
3.) Commander damage requires an entire spread sheet. Why? It's not like you're going to make is past turn 4.
4.) Because everyone has 40 life and there are 3 other players at the table, playing fun, fair, interactive Magic becomes impossible and the only reasonably effective way of killing other players is to play some sort of broken combo. Another issue with players having 40 life is that your life total is absolutely meaningless, so **** it, why not Necro for 39?
Players should have 20 or less life.
5.) You should be able to kill, exile, tuck, etc. a Commander. If players had to actively work to keep their commander safe it would be better.
In general, Magic players want the easiest, low effort way of winning the game possible. Any card with any degree of risk or downside associated with it is immediately shunned. This attitude is why Shroud was replaced with Hexproof and why having your commander die comes with little consequence. Having to manage risk is good game design, Bumper Bowling isn't.
Let's talk about what cards are allowed in the format:
1.) Why are Sundering Titan or Armageddon or Sway of the Stars seen as bad but not Wheel of Fortune? Man, I sure do love having the most important decision I will make all game (mulligan) rendered meaningless. Wow, I got a no land hand off of this Wheel on turn two before I could do anything, what fun! In half of the dozen or so games of Commander that I've played, I end up not being able to plan on having any of the cards currently in my hand. If they're going to ban cards because they're not fun, then they should go ahead and ban a lot more things.
2.) Why bother playing 100 card singleton if you're allowed to have 16 copies of each card because you're playing the original card + 15 tutors? Plus, your commander. So all of this 100 card nonsense is just a charade, after your lands and autoinclude mana (birds of paradise, mana elves, sol ring, mana crypt, mox diamond, etc.) and tutors you're really only playing with a 20-30 card deck.
They should ban everything that tutors for non-lands. Yes, everything. There will be some collateral damage, but it will be worth it. Then maybe these non-interactive combo decks won't be consistent.
3.) Why bother playing anything that's not an infinite combo? They should ban all of those too.
Combo doesn't actually count as Magic. All combo decks without exception* are merely accidents as a result of this game being around for 27 years with 20,000 unique cards in it. Kiki Jiki was not designed with Pestermite in mind, it was just a value card. Dark Depths was designed to require actually paying 30 mana over the course of multiple turns to summon a huge monster, it was not intended that you could instead just slap down Vampire Hexmage. Tinker was not designed with Blightseel Colossus in mind. Protean Hulk was not intended to work with Flash. Nomads en-Kor is a 1 mana 1/1 with, "fixed banding" on it, it was not designed as combo enabler.
This is just blatant fact. Through the Breach was from the COK Block, from 2005. Emrakul is from Rise of the Eldrazi, from 2012 I believe. They were never intended to work with one another.
*To be fair, Hidetsugu and Hidetsugu's Second Rite were in the same set. So it's not as if combo is absolutely never intended, it's just kind of rare and harder to pull off when it is. Maybe I'm wrong about this, I've only been playing magic for 2 years but that's how combo seems to me - 95% mistakes - because all of the notable ones and even a bunch of the ones in Pauper use weird cards made years apart that were never designed with each other in mind.
Now let's get to the playerbase. Yes, that's awful too.
1.) It's the least balanced, most rapacious format that exists but it has the most casuals playing it. So instead of playing a fair format and having fun games, casuals would rather play the most broken format possible and then get mad at your when you play a deck that's actually good. They hate the player instead of the game. If you've ever read Ender's Game, all casual commander players are Bonzo Madrid.
2.) There are three types of Commander players:
a.) Casuals who want to play dumb ***** and jack up the price of random cards like Forest Bears or Three Visits. Yes, let's spend a ton of money just to lose every single game with Squirrel Tribal, neat. They've correctly determined that top tier decks are awful but they refuse to ensconce what they want the format to be into any sort of actual change to the rules. When something is broken in Legacy or Standard or Modern or Pauper and people don't want it ruining the game anymore, they want it banned. They don't shame people for playing the overpowered deck in question. Players of every other constructed format in Magic hate the game, not the player.
b.) Spikes who play the top tier decks because they're legal but their libertarianism/aspergers prevents them from acknowledging that the game would be better without unfun things that ruin the game, instead preferring a laissez-faire free-for-all where anything goes (as long as it's flash hulk) and the only viable deck is Flash Hulk because god forbid we ever ban cards. I died on turn 4, I had to shuffle my entire 100 card deck 1.5 times a turn because I have all 10 fetches and 15 tutors, I spent more time shuffling than I actually did playing. I tried to go off with my Flash Hulk on turn 3 but everyone else Force of Willed me and then someone else Flash Hulked a turn later. Yay! What an, "interactive" game!
c.) People who play with group A and purport to hate CEDH players and infinite combo, but then assemble an infinite combo and kill everyone anyways. I was going to insult group C, but then I realized that the wildly fluctuating power level expectations of everyone that plays this format (in lieu of just changing what's legal, like literally every other format of Magic does) make it impossible to have a deck that's aligned with everyone else's power level. Group C players are just a result of this format's awful playerbase and wild west nature.
3.) The format is sold as this fun intro format... despite being the least balanced, most chaotic, biggest money pit imaginable. It's the worst introduction to Magic I could possibly think of. Buy this $40 precon so I can rip off your head and ***** down your neck with my $243 copy of Mana Crypt that I got from an out of print book that I purchased over 20 years ago!!! Awesome!
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Group A commander players just want to control what everyone else can and cannot play (which is what cube is all about) so they can play some stupid gimmick. Group B just wants to play with broken cards that ruin the game. Group C wants neither or is somewhere in-between. All three of these groups I think would enjoy playing/curating their own cube far more than commander.
Group A can put Squirrel Tribal and 300 other silly gimmick cards into their cube, Group B can build the MTGO Vintage cube.
But because commander has become so popular, it's choking out other forms of non-competition Magic. That's a shame. Even commander players I think would enjoy cube more than commander.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Anyone into tje unsanctioned cards? Abstract Iguanart looks pretty good to me.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
What about house-ruling Spirit of the season so that you "choose your own season"? (I don't know how the hell you could make a working definition of the start/end of seasons anyway).
And if we are in non-regular-card-frame-land: What about Growth Charm (internal card-link didn't seem to work)?
EDIT: Was "hell" always allowed on here, or has the sensor become more lenient? Let's find out: **** ****** *****. Guess not
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Spring begins with the Vernal Equinox, Thursday, March 19, 2020, 11:50 p.m.
Summer begins with the Summer Solstice, Saturday, June 20, 2020, 5:44 p.m.
Autumn begins with the Autumnal Equinox, Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 9:31 a.m.
Winter begins with the Winter Solstice, Monday, December 21, 2020, 5:02 a.m.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
I've never heard that the seasons are defined that way before. Where I live, the summer solstice is known as "midsummer". Kinda weird to have summer start with midsummer. And most years autumn is well underway by late September. And talking about most of December as autumn is nonsensical. December is winter.
Actually, wikipedia tells me that "Some cultures regard the autumnal equinox as "mid-autumn", while others with a longer temperature lag treat it as the start of autumn". Meteorologists (and most of the temperate countries in the southern hemisphere)[3] use a definition based on Gregorian calendar months, with autumn being September, October, and November in the northern hemisphere,[4] and March, April, and May in the southern hemisphere. In North America, autumn traditionally starts with the September equinox (21 to 24 September)[5] and ends with the winter solstice (21 or 22 December).[6] In traditional East Asian solar term, autumn starts on or around 8 August and ends on or about 7 November. In Ireland, the autumn months according to the national meteorological service, Met Éireann, are September, October and November."
I also found this: Autumn is defined by meterologists as when the local daily mean temperature is between 0°C and 10°C and falling. That would mean that large parts of the world doesn't have autumn.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
I've played with:
White Genju - Probably the best of the bunch, it has non-keyworded lifelink so you can activate it multiple times a turn and gain 2-4-6-8 etc. life with each combat it's in.
Red Genju - It's a one drop 6/1, pretty good. While it does eat up your turn 2 play, you're still presenting 6 power on turn 2. Ball Lightning is RRR. Another interesting card of note is Zektar Shrine Expedition, it's also pretty good. If they have an open board you can swing for wumbo damage and if not you can start trading extra mountains for their creatures.
Green Genju - It's more durable than the red Genju. It only saw play once in my cube before I ended up cutting it. What happened was that I just happened to rip a Rishadan Port top deck the turn after my friend played it. That doesn't mean it's a bad card, I just wanted another grteen spirit or arcane spell or whatever and needed to make room.
Rainbow Genju - When my cube was still limited to Pauper I added this in as an incentive to go for 5 color. It was pretty awesome but by the time you set it up you were often almost dead so it wasn't unfair. Now that my cube has expanded to 720 cards I just haven't seen it in a while. It's probably a little worse in relation to the rest of my cards because I play cards of all rarities now but on the other hand I'm playing better fixing so it should be easier to cast. IMO I'd break rarity for this card, it's not really overpowered, it's a fun card.
I ended up cutting the white one because I wanted white creatures to be overall pretty bad and require synergy like Banding, Flagbearers, or Crusade effects to function well, so having white Genju actually be good on its own as opposed to a 5 mana 3/3 Banding Sliver or whatever didn't really appeal to me. I cut the green one not because it's a bad card, but because I have a heavy Spirit/Arcane Craft theme in my cube and even though the Genjus turn into spirits, they don't count for Spirit craft upon ETB. I still play the red and rainbow one, I've never tried the blue or black one.
I'm glad you brought them up, the concept is real cool. I should add some more of them back in.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/djredpeasant
Jackal Pup: If you are supporting red aggro you must play this card, the only straight up 2 power one drop in red. If you are the all out aggressive deck the downside is rarely relevant.
Goblin Banneret: A solid one drop that can attack hard and boost up your other creatures. Another must run in my opinion
Monastery Swiftspear: Not as good as it is in constructed, but still one of the must run one drops. A hard to block threat that starts getting in right away. Some people like it in spells matter UR but I personally don't think it does enough in that type of deck.
Stonewright: I think this is one of the most underrated one drops in peasant. It'll probably one get in a point or two of damage early game, but it's a one drop that can not be ignored as the game goes on. Soul bond it with an evasive creature and your opponent needs an answer ASAP.
Village Messenger: Being able to attack turn one is nice and then when it transforms it is a solid beater. I don't like that this card is so much better on the play than the draw, but oh well.
Goblin Glory Chaser: Pretty similar to the village messenger honestly. Pretty solid overall, but again much better on the play than the draw.
Goblin Motivator: Can be deceptively powerful. Not the best in mono red because most of your strongest creatures will already have haste, but really shines in a multicolor aggro deck.
Some that I don't play are:
Lightning Brawler: I personally prefer stonewright, although I haven't tested the brawler admittedly. I just don't see the dash being as relevant as the soulbond. But if anyone else has any experience I would be happy to hear it.
Reckless Waif: Used to run this and I didn't love the play patterns that much. It was either a complete blowout or pretty awful, usually just dependent on if you are on the play or the draw. Definitely prefer village messenger.
Scorch Spitter: Have not tested this guy yet. Kind of like a jackal pup, where it can attack for 2 as a one drop. Get's taken out easier but can always get in for at least one damage even when it's blocked. I want to test it.
Fanatical Firebrand: Haven't tested yet. Seems decent, can get in a few points of damage and then can take out a one toughness creature or ping the opponent. Becomes slightly better in a BR deck with stuff like blood artist.
Foundry Street Denizen: Good in mono red, not good in multicolor aggressive decks though. Wish it were any creature.
Frenzied Goblin: I still need to test this guy. Seems pretty decent as a little mana sink, I always enjoy one drops that are still relevant into the mid game.
Ghitu Lavarunner: Need to test it. It seems pretty weak to me though. You aren't able to consistently fill your grave as early in limited as you can in contstructed.
Goblin Arsonist: Fine. Good in a sacrifice type deck, but very easy to ignore a lot of the time.
Goblin Cohort: Just learned about this card. Has anyone tested it? It kind of seems like a better foundry street denizen, but I could totally be wrong.
Goblin Fireslinger: Seems solid for providing reach, but kind of low impact overall. Never got around to testing it.
Grim Initiate: Not a great aggressive creature, but another solid creature in the sacrifice deck. Can't underestimate first strike, even if it's just one power. Has anyone tried him out?
Rigging Runner: Another one drop 1/1 First strike with upside. I like the look of it.
With that all being said, I think I am going to keep the 7 one drops I am currently playing and test out two of the ones I listed. Any recommendations for which to try out? Let's hear everyone's thoughts on red one drops! Which do you play, which have you tested that fell short, and that you consider "must play", and how many do you even have in your cube?
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/djredpeasant
Frenzied Goblin is pretty solid. Not the best thing to t1, but using it to fill your curve on t3 and/or t4 is very nice.
Goblin Glory Chaser and Village Messenger never really worked out for me. They are really inconsistent to get going, and the menace didn't matter often enough (why block the 2/2 instead of the 3/2?).
When are you pumping Goblin Banneret? Ideally I'm tapping out from turns 1-4 in any aggro deck, and I would imagine a 2-3 drop is better if you're not pumping early.