From the perspective of a Spike: The reason people like cards like Carnage Tyrant is because they love to win games. Dash Hopes does never win you the game and never counters something that would lose you the game unless you were already winning the game and Tyrant's Choice would already get you there. People don't hate interaction, but people like interaction most when it's flexible and efficient. Dash Hopes is not flexible and not efficient.
I understand that making a cube involves more than just giving players access to cards they love. Dash Hopes might find a home in some cubes where this punisher mechanic is a theme or a cube that tries to get people far out of their comfort zone.
About the blocking and flaming: Stop it please? While making controversial statements generalizing magic players is pointless, reacting to it in this way only sustains it. These posts are a report of a person's experience. Even if we experience things differently, isn't there something to be learned?
About the blocking and flaming: Stop it please? While making controversial statements generalizing magic players is pointless, reacting to it in this way only sustains it. These posts are a report of a person's experience. Even if we experience things differently, isn't there something to be learned?
No, there is absolutely nothing that can be learned from his posts. He just keeps repeating the same nonsense (even with the same wording) over and over and over and over again. A lot of people, including me, have tried to get through to him and show him a different perspective. But he doesn't care and just starts his 'Magic players hate the game/see shroud and hexproof/playing terrible card x is like sprinkling holy water on a vampire and that's great because everything Magic players hate is great' nonsense all over again. Every. Single. Time.
I believe I'm a pretty nice guy and in all these years on this forum (post count is wrong, profile was reset due to change of site ownership) I've never ever considered blocking anyone, even if discussions could get a bit heated at times. But there is a point where discussion isn't possible anymore and that point was reached weeks ago for me already. And reading quoted comments by him like today shows me I was 100% right.
About the blocking and flaming: Stop it please? While making controversial statements generalizing magic players is pointless, reacting to it in this way only sustains it. These posts are a report of a person's experience. Even if we experience things differently, isn't there something to be learned?
Have to agree with Phitt77 here. I've been tangled up in debates multiple times with SaltMaster (both here and elsewhere), and it has never once been productive. That's because Salt doesn't want an open-minded discussion; he wants to repeat trite accusations and contrarian claims. Phitt wasn't kidding with the "hate the game, shroud/hexproof, holy water" rant; it's almost word-for-word.
I blocked him once, but MTGSalvation kept notifying me when he posted here, and out of morbid curiosity, I was fool enough to get baited again. I was chastised for how I responded (and rightly so - I'll admit I should have just ignored him rather than lashing out), so I blocked him again and have abstained from further commentary.
As for learning - we can only learn from people who are likewise willing and able to learn. If you disagree with me on a card's value and communicate reasonably what your experience has been, you could change my mind. If I have a different experience and communicate that, maybe I can convince you to try a card you wouldn't have otherwise. But if we give a well-reasoned post with rational statements to Salt, we are met with "anything Magic players hate is good for the game" - over and over, ad nauseam, sine fine, in perpetuum.
As for discussion of actual peasant cards - we've discussed Sol Ring a few times, and I wanted to bring it back because of my latest draft experience. It's the game I previously mentioned where I built a mono-black removal deck and lost a game to a roided up Kavu wearing Boots and a Warhammer while sneaking through the Rogue's Passage. I've reviewed the game multiple times in my head and came to one ironic conclusion - I lost the game because I pulled Sol Ring.
In pack three, I had fifteen choices, including Sol Ring and Swiftfoot Boots. Remembering our discussions here, I grabbed Sol Ring to see how much it would accelerate my deck, and I foolishly passed Swiftfoot Boots. Considering how much targeted removal I was packing, I should have at least hate-drafted the Boots (I did hate-draft Vine Mare, but that was later in a pack with less viable options for my own deck), but I chose not to for two specific reasons: 1) I wanted to consciously check the power level of Sol Ring, and 2) the odds are against me playing whoever pulls the Boots and even further against them pulling the card when it actually matters in a game against me.
Well, the Sol Ring was alright for me, even landing it turn one in a game or two, but it never directly contributed to a win for me - I couldn't be color-screwed thanks to a mono-color deck, I was only mana-screwed one game where I kept a one-land hand (no Ring) because I only needed to draw one more to get rolling, and I had plenty of removal for whatever my opponents threw at me in practically every game. Even against the Kavu, I had removal in hand before it killed me, but the Boots kept it safe. Honestly, if any one component (vigilance, hexproof, lifelink, unblockable) had been missing, I could have won by out-racing the Kavu or killing it through blocks or removal, but it was the perfect storm of abilities to foil my deck (such an epic thing to die from). And I would have won it with ease had I picked Swiftfoot Boots over Sol Ring. I still plan to actively monitor every draft where Sol Ring sees play, but at this point, I'm less concerned about its power level than I was before.
I'm really curious about what you're trying to illustrate by comparing Dash Hopes with Carnage Tyrant. Care to elaborate?
I only follow this 'discussion' by reading quoted comments from you know who, but I think I can answer it for you.
Magic players hate the game and that's why Wizards replaced shroud with hexproof. And that's why Magic players, who hate the game, love cards like Carnage Tyrant because it has hexproof and can't be countered and thus is uninteractive and unfun. And that's why playing a card like Dash Hopes is like sprinkling holy water on a vampire to most Magic players because it's so damn interactive!!1 And, you know, Magic players HATE interactivity! Because they hate the game! Because they replaced shroud with hexproof! And everything Magic players hate is good for the game and that's why you should fill your cube with arcane cards and One with Nothing just because it's something Magic players hate.
I mean, that's bascially everything this guy has been saying over and over and over since he started posting in the peasant section of this forum (and I assume he posted the same nonsense elsewhere before). And that's all you'll ever hear from him.
It's not that Magic players hate the game and that's why they like dumb uninteractive nonsense like Carnage Tyrant, it's that they prefer having their wins handed to them and prefer showing you their Cool Thing(tm) even if it's at the expense of everyone else playing the game. As opposed to playing a long interactive game where decisions matter.
So instead of winning by actually playing the game and making decisions, they'd rather just put Ethereal Armor and 3 Rancors on Bogles and Louis C.K. you. A lot of Magic games mirror modern board game design where no one truly interacts with each other, they're just playing "Multiplayer Solitaire".
The guy with the turn one bull***** combo deck is enjoying himself, no doubt. But his fun is at the expense of everyone else and he isn't truly playing the game, he's just playing with infinite ammo, all guns unlocked, and invincibility cheats enabled. And that's why Dash Hopes, Banding, Splice Onto Arcane, etc. are things that I like, because they're the polar opposite of that.
As far as Dash Hopes being a usable card, generally no. But in a burn deck it's fine. If you're swinging with a Skittering Skirge and they go to remove it, protecting it with Dash Hopes presents them with a situation where neither option is desirable and the lesser of the two evils is still 2 mana 5 damage.
My argument isn't that it's a generally competitive card, it's that it's a well designed one and its "flaws" are what make it well designed as opposed to a card that has zero ways to play around it, like Carnage Tyrant. It creates a more interesting, more fun and interactive game state than an uncounterable hexproof above curve trampler does.
One was designed by someone who put thought into card design.
Another was designed by a 7 year old smearing ice cream on his face.
Did you ask your opponents how they felt about being two mana behind all game?
I got a few groans when I played it turn one, but these are Commander players used to seeing turn one Sol Ring and Signet. When I failed to use the mana that turn, it wasn't so bad. When I had more mana than I could use on several subsequent turns, it didn't really matter (need targets to use removal). That extra two mana didn't win me any games - it was the suite of removal that killed any threat that sealed each game. And I can only fault the other drafters for not taking black removal spells for that - out of seven players, I went mono-black, no one else used black as a primary or even secondary color, and only two of them splashed black as a third color.
I will keep monitoring the card, but I have never seen it break a game in peasant cube. I can even force it into our packs the next several drafts to make sure it gets use (400-card cube, so not every card gets drafted each time). I'd really be curious to hear specific experiences where it did break someone's draft.
I guess it depends on what you mean by breaking draft, but a card that ensures you'll be two mana ahead is going to create massively uneven playing fields for your games. Playing Sol Ring is kind of like stacking your deck in that regard. Sounds to me like the fact that you couldn't use that extra mana often was more to do with your deck and less with the fact that being two mana ahead is fine.
For most cards anecdotal evidence isn't enough to prove anything. Sol Ring is very easy to evaluate and it has been around since Alpha, so millions of players had a chance to play with it. Sure, it's still a situational card and just because you draw a Sol Ring, even early in the game, doesn't mean you are bound to win. But if you can make use of the mana and if you can play it on turn one or two it will give you a HUGE advantage.
Sol Ring may be ok in a slow multiplayer format like EDH (though it's still an unfair advantage in that format from my pov), but in any reasonably fast 1 vs 1 CU/be setting it will very noticeably increase win chances for any deck it is played in. I don't think there is a need to test that, it's just a matter of taste whether you think it's ok to have such a bomb in the cube or not.
About the blocking and flaming: Stop it please? While making controversial statements generalizing magic players is pointless, reacting to it in this way only sustains it. These posts are a report of a person's experience. Even if we experience things differently, isn't there something to be learned?
Have to agree with Phitt77 here. I've been tangled up in debates multiple times with SaltMaster (both here and elsewhere), and it has never once been productive. That's because Salt doesn't want an open-minded discussion; he wants to repeat trite accusations and contrarian claims. Phitt wasn't kidding with the "hate the game, shroud/hexproof, holy water" rant; it's almost word-for-word.
I blocked him once, but MTGSalvation kept notifying me when he posted here, and out of morbid curiosity, I was fool enough to get baited again. I was chastised for how I responded (and rightly so - I'll admit I should have just ignored him rather than lashing out), so I blocked him again and have abstained from further commentary.
As for learning - we can only learn from people who are likewise willing and able to learn. If you disagree with me on a card's value and communicate reasonably what your experience has been, you could change my mind. If I have a different experience and communicate that, maybe I can convince you to try a card you wouldn't have otherwise. But if we give a well-reasoned post with rational statements to Salt, we are met with "anything Magic players hate is good for the game" - over and over, ad nauseam, sine fine, in perpetuum.
As for discussion of actual peasant cards - we've discussed Sol Ring a few times, and I wanted to bring it back because of my latest draft experience. It's the game I previously mentioned where I built a mono-black removal deck and lost a game to a roided up Kavu wearing Boots and a Warhammer while sneaking through the Rogue's Passage. I've reviewed the game multiple times in my head and came to one ironic conclusion - I lost the game because I pulled Sol Ring.
In pack three, I had fifteen choices, including Sol Ring and Swiftfoot Boots. Remembering our discussions here, I grabbed Sol Ring to see how much it would accelerate my deck, and I foolishly passed Swiftfoot Boots. Considering how much targeted removal I was packing, I should have at least hate-drafted the Boots (I did hate-draft Vine Mare, but that was later in a pack with less viable options for my own deck), but I chose not to for two specific reasons: 1) I wanted to consciously check the power level of Sol Ring, and 2) the odds are against me playing whoever pulls the Boots and even further against them pulling the card when it actually matters in a game against me.
Well, the Sol Ring was alright for me, even landing it turn one in a game or two, but it never directly contributed to a win for me - I couldn't be color-screwed thanks to a mono-color deck, I was only mana-screwed one game where I kept a one-land hand (no Ring) because I only needed to draw one more to get rolling, and I had plenty of removal for whatever my opponents threw at me in practically every game. Even against the Kavu, I had removal in hand before it killed me, but the Boots kept it safe. Honestly, if any one component (vigilance, hexproof, lifelink, unblockable) had been missing, I could have won by out-racing the Kavu or killing it through blocks or removal, but it was the perfect storm of abilities to foil my deck (such an epic thing to die from). And I would have won it with ease had I picked Swiftfoot Boots over Sol Ring. I still plan to actively monitor every draft where Sol Ring sees play, but at this point, I'm less concerned about its power level than I was before.
I don't have any experience with Sol Ring, but I do have experience with the 5 Moxes.
I was reasoned out of it with, "You'll be behind all game they're soo broken!"
Then I actually tried them out and they're okay. So you get to play a 5 drop on turn 4, who cares. They're just moderately better basic lands and no different than Llanowar Elves.
The only problem I've had with them is when someone drafted them all and a bunch of Talismans and slammed Armageddon. Yeah, that's obnoxious, but without that cards like Sol Ring are just fine.
Mana rocks also get much better once you start having a critical mass of them. It's one thing to have an extra land drop or two early, it's another to have 5 mana on turn 2.
Mana rocks also get much better once you start having a critical mass of them. It's one thing to have an extra land drop or two early, it's another to have 5 mana on turn 2.
This is an odd statement to make in the same breath as Sol Ring. Sol Ring is two moxen, but wrapped in one card.
I can agree that when the power level of the spells is lower, the power level of ramp is lower. But these cards are still very very good. Llanowar Elves is already one of the best cards in peasant and moxen are meaningfully better than Llanowar Elves for the color fixing aspect and how hard they are to disrupt.
Mana rocks also get much better once you start having a critical mass of them. It's one thing to have an extra land drop or two early, it's another to have 5 mana on turn 2.
This is an odd statement to make in the same breath as Sol Ring. Sol Ring is two moxen, but wrapped in one card.
I can agree that when the power level of the spells is lower, the power level of ramp is lower. But these cards are still very very good. Llanowar Elves is already one of the best cards in peasant and moxen are meaningfully better than Llanowar Elves for the color fixing aspect and how hard they are to disrupt.
I'd draft Ninja of the Deep Hours before I'd draft Mox Sapphire. It would be a toss up if it was between The One True Ninja and Sol Ring. If I found a Sol Ring late in the draft and I was already in Blue, Ninja. If it was early in the draft and I hadn't committed to a color yet, probably Sol Ring although that's tough.
You can have all the mana you want but you still need an actual deck for it to power. You could slot the MTGO Vintage cube mana base and mana rock suite into your average Pauper cube and besides for the worldwake man lands it wouldn't make much of a difference.
I've created "Package Deal" cards for Tron and Cloudpost. One adds 3 of each Tron land to your draft pool, the other adds 3 of each Locus land to your pool. It ends up being okay, having a million mana on turn 6 doesn't give your War Elephant or Keiga, Tide Star extra +1/+1 counters on it or whatever. You still have to draw cards and unless your cube is filled with bomb 4-5 drops it'll be fine.
I'd draft Ninja of the Deep Hours before I'd draft Mox Sapphire. It would be a toss up if it was between The One True Ninja and Sol Ring. If I found a Sol Ring late in the draft and I was already in Blue, Ninja. If it was early in the draft and I hadn't committed to a color yet, probably Sol Ring although that's tough.
There's not much to say here other than that I think your card evaluation skills aren't at a competitive level. Why are you bothering to try and grind out value with Ninja when you can just divination with non-evoked Mulldrifter on turn 3, etc.? Mana isn't a dichotomy with card advantage. They fuel each other.
So instead of winning by actually playing the game and making decisions, they'd rather just put Ethereal Armor and 3 Rancors on Bogles and Louis C.K. you. A lot of Magic games mirror modern board game design where no one truly interacts with each other, they're just playing "Multiplayer Solitaire".
I think your view of modern is off. Path to Exile, Fatal Push, Thoughtseize, Dismember and Snapcaster Mage are still among the 10 most played cards in modern. The format has a lot of proactive decks, but that doesn't mean the games are uninteractive. Even decks like Bogles, Ad Naus and Neoform can be interacted with, but you have to find your angle, as it were. If anything, these decks FORCE people to interact. No competative player is content with just playing Neoform Mirrors all day and going 4-4. People pick up these fast 'uninteractive' decks when they think the meta doesn't currently have the angle to interact with them. Once the meta catches on, it usually finds that angle. If modern was like you describe it, it wouldn't be thriving right now.
EDIT: I noticed I misread the original post
I'm really curious about what you're trying to illustrate by comparing Dash Hopes with Carnage Tyrant. Care to elaborate?
I only follow this 'discussion' by reading quoted comments from you know who, but I think I can answer it for you.
Magic players hate the game and that's why Wizards replaced shroud with hexproof. And that's why Magic players, who hate the game, love cards like Carnage Tyrant because it has hexproof and can't be countered and thus is uninteractive and unfun. And that's why playing a card like Dash Hopes is like sprinkling holy water on a vampire to most Magic players because it's so damn interactive!!1 And, you know, Magic players HATE interactivity! Because they hate the game! Because they replaced shroud with hexproof! And everything Magic players hate is good for the game and that's why you should fill your cube with arcane cards and One with Nothing just because it's something Magic players hate.
I mean, that's bascially everything this guy has been saying over and over and over since he started posting in the peasant section of this forum (and I assume he posted the same nonsense elsewhere before). And that's all you'll ever hear from him.
It's not that Magic players hate the game and that's why they like dumb uninteractive nonsense like Carnage Tyrant, it's that they prefer having their wins handed to them and prefer showing you their Cool Thing(tm) even if it's at the expense of everyone else playing the game. As opposed to playing a long interactive game where decisions matter.
So instead of winning by actually playing the game and making decisions, they'd rather just put Ethereal Armor and 3 Rancors on Bogles and Louis C.K. you. A lot of Magic games mirror modern board game design where no one truly interacts with each other, they're just playing "Multiplayer Solitaire".
The guy with the turn one bull***** combo deck is enjoying himself, no doubt. But his fun is at the expense of everyone else and he isn't truly playing the game, he's just playing with infinite ammo, all guns unlocked, and invincibility cheats enabled. And that's why Dash Hopes, Banding, Splice Onto Arcane, etc. are things that I like, because they're the polar opposite of that.
As far as Dash Hopes being a usable card, generally no. But in a burn deck it's fine. If you're swinging with a Skittering Skirge and they go to remove it, protecting it with Dash Hopes presents them with a situation where neither option is desirable and the lesser of the two evils is still 2 mana 5 damage.
My argument isn't that it's a generally competitive card, it's that it's a well designed one and its "flaws" are what make it well designed as opposed to a card that has zero ways to play around it, like Carnage Tyrant. It creates a more interesting, more fun and interactive game state than an uncounterable hexproof above curve trampler does.
One was designed by someone who put thought into card design.
Another was designed by a 7 year old smearing ice cream on his face.
Magic is game full of cards which serve multiple roles. It's expected that all players will find some cards useless, bad or poorly designed. Wizards goal though is that every card will be loved by at least a few players (I'm still waiting to hear from any fans of Loathsome Catoblepas). While you (and I) don't find Carnage Tyrant to be an interesting card from a design perspective, I certainly can't deny that it does some things well. Namely:
Be a big mythic T-Rex for the Timmy's out there who get off on the experience of playing powerful cards
Keep certain constructed decks in check
I think the first point is pretty self evident so I won't go into it further. To give you some context on the second point - Carnage Tyrant actually served a crucial role in Standard during Kaladesh-Ixalan standard (the only standard format I've played much of in the last few years). I was playing one of the best decks in the format at the time - UWx control (specifically UWB in my case). That deck aimed to leverage the card and mana advantage of Teferi, Hero of Dominaria to kill or counter the opponent's entire deck until winning with either Torrential Gearhulk or milling them out. Once you finally take control with the UWx deck, the game is over in 90% of cases. The only card I feared in those situations was Carnage Tyrant and as a result it kept my deck honest and prevented it from taking over even more of the meta. Sure, they could have designed some other more complicated and "interesting" card to bully my Teferi deck, but they didn't have to and plenty of people had a lot of fun casting their Tyrants. I certainly had a lot of fun wrecking them.
I agree with you that Dash Hopes is a more interesting design from a cerebral point of view, but that's only one way to evaluate a card. Additionally, the choice with Dash Hopes (and punisher cards more generally) is not a difficult one in most cases for anyone who understands the relative value of resources in Magic. Generally the card just says "the controller of target spell loses 5 life".
Just because you value one attribute of a card doesn't mean that people are "wrong" or "stupid" or "hate magic" for valuing other attributes. It's little wonder that people here have been treating you like a pariah when you go out of your way to:
Insult magic players in general, while being one yourself
Insist that you've attained enlightenment about what is and isn't good for the game
Flaunt your own ignorance about strategy, card and cube design
Constantly bring up your own unrelated and often bizarre opinions that nobody asked for, while implying that anyone who disagrees is objectively wrong
I really do wonder if this is just a persona you've put on for the forums, or if you're actually this antisocial in real life. I have to believe it's the former. You've claimed to play magic with people IRL from time to time and I can't imagine somebody who acts the way you do in their daily life successfully forming and maintaining friendships.
I'm really curious about what you're trying to illustrate by comparing Dash Hopes with Carnage Tyrant. Care to elaborate?
I only follow this 'discussion' by reading quoted comments from you know who, but I think I can answer it for you.
Magic players hate the game and that's why Wizards replaced shroud with hexproof. And that's why Magic players, who hate the game, love cards like Carnage Tyrant because it has hexproof and can't be countered and thus is uninteractive and unfun. And that's why playing a card like Dash Hopes is like sprinkling holy water on a vampire to most Magic players because it's so damn interactive!!1 And, you know, Magic players HATE interactivity! Because they hate the game! Because they replaced shroud with hexproof! And everything Magic players hate is good for the game and that's why you should fill your cube with arcane cards and One with Nothing just because it's something Magic players hate.
I mean, that's bascially everything this guy has been saying over and over and over since he started posting in the peasant section of this forum (and I assume he posted the same nonsense elsewhere before). And that's all you'll ever hear from him.
It's not that Magic players hate the game and that's why they like dumb uninteractive nonsense like Carnage Tyrant, it's that they prefer having their wins handed to them and prefer showing you their Cool Thing(tm) even if it's at the expense of everyone else playing the game. As opposed to playing a long interactive game where decisions matter.
So instead of winning by actually playing the game and making decisions, they'd rather just put Ethereal Armor and 3 Rancors on Bogles and Louis C.K. you. A lot of Magic games mirror modern board game design where no one truly interacts with each other, they're just playing "Multiplayer Solitaire".
The guy with the turn one bull***** combo deck is enjoying himself, no doubt. But his fun is at the expense of everyone else and he isn't truly playing the game, he's just playing with infinite ammo, all guns unlocked, and invincibility cheats enabled. And that's why Dash Hopes, Banding, Splice Onto Arcane, etc. are things that I like, because they're the polar opposite of that.
As far as Dash Hopes being a usable card, generally no. But in a burn deck it's fine. If you're swinging with a Skittering Skirge and they go to remove it, protecting it with Dash Hopes presents them with a situation where neither option is desirable and the lesser of the two evils is still 2 mana 5 damage.
My argument isn't that it's a generally competitive card, it's that it's a well designed one and its "flaws" are what make it well designed as opposed to a card that has zero ways to play around it, like Carnage Tyrant. It creates a more interesting, more fun and interactive game state than an uncounterable hexproof above curve trampler does.
One was designed by someone who put thought into card design.
Another was designed by a 7 year old smearing ice cream on his face.
Magic is game full of cards which serve multiple roles. It's expected that all players will find some cards useless, bad or poorly designed. Wizards goal though is that every card will be loved by at least a few players (I'm still waiting to hear from any fans of Loathsome Catoblepas). While you (and I) don't find Carnage Tyrant to be an interesting card from a design perspective, I certainly can't deny that it does some things well. Namely:
Be a big mythic T-Rex for the Timmy's out there who get off on the experience of playing powerful cards
Keep certain constructed decks in check
I think the first point is pretty self evident so I won't go into it further. To give you some context on the second point - Carnage Tyrant actually served a crucial role in Standard during Kaladesh-Ixalan standard (the only standard format I've played much of in the last few years). I was playing one of the best decks in the format at the time - UWx control (specifically UWB in my case). That deck aimed to leverage the card and mana advantage of Teferi, Hero of Dominaria to kill or counter the opponent's entire deck until winning with either Torrential Gearhulk or milling them out. Once you finally take control with the UWx deck, the game is over in 90% of cases. The only card I feared in those situations was Carnage Tyrant and as a result it kept my deck honest and prevented it from taking over even more of the meta. Sure, they could have designed some other more complicated and "interesting" card to bully my Teferi deck, but they didn't have to and plenty of people had a lot of fun casting their Tyrants. I certainly had a lot of fun wrecking them.
I agree with you that Dash Hopes is a more interesting design from a cerebral point of view, but that's only one way to evaluate a card. Additionally, the choice with Dash Hopes (and punisher cards more generally) is not a difficult one in most cases for anyone who understands the relative value of resources in Magic. Generally the card just says "the controller of target spell loses 5 life".
Just because you value one attribute of a card doesn't mean that people are "wrong" or "stupid" or "hate magic" for valuing other attributes. It's little wonder that people here have been treating you like a pariah when you go out of your way to:
Insult magic players in general, while being one yourself
Insist that you've attained enlightenment about what is and isn't good for the game
Flaunt your own ignorance about strategy, card and cube design
Constantly bring up your own unrelated and often bizarre opinions that nobody asked for, while implying that anyone who disagrees is objectively wrong
I really do wonder if this is just a persona you've put on for the forums, or if you're actually this antisocial in real life. I have to believe it's the former. You've claimed to play magic with people IRL from time to time and I can't imagine somebody who acts the way you do in their daily life successfully forming and maintaining friendships.
You misread his post. He was talking about modern board games, not the format.
If a degenerate card was needed to keep another degenerate card in check, I'd rather the original degeneracy just not exist in the first place. If Teferi was so degenerate that a card like Carnage Tyrant was needed, they should have just banned Teferi instead of swallowing the spider to catch the fly.
Before I played Magic, I played X-Wing Miniatures. The problem with that game was that instead of banning or nerfing degeneracy, they just kept on printing answers that were themselves degenerate. After a while the game became a Russian nesting doll of cancer where none of the core game mechanics mattered anymore.
I occasionally state my opinions in real life. I try to be polite about it, I don't call people knuckledraggers to their face and I hate the game, not the player. I have friends that I play the game with, I don't get to see many of them as much as I used to a year ago when I didn't work from 6pm until 2am M-F. Before work I hangout with my best friend a few times a week and we Winston draft each others cubes.
Also, insulting Magic players while being one, sure. I got suspended from the forums for saying that Magic players are incapable of nuance and that's why they won't play with rares because they can't control themselves and recently I had to be talked out of having Armageddon in my cube and have to fight the urge to put Stasis in my cube. I'm being corrupted too, lol.
Admittedly, there is little to breathe life to the place outside spoiler seasons at this point. Which then means that it is easier to latch onto drama.
The biggest thing I still wonder about concerns when 'pet cards' can be justified from a design standpoint. As in, if a CU/be is generally built towards greater power, at what point do detractors from that begin to imbalance the options available to players. For instance, I did end up adding Syr Faren, the Hengehammer from the newest set because I remain a Timmy and Melvin at heart and seeing them numbers go up in a manner which affords multiple forms of mechanical interactions warms my heart. Another example might be Kwende, Pride of Femeref which has me prioritising firststrikers in terms of available options. When you *do* manage that Valor + Kwende play, after all, it is something truly special at Peasant level but on the other hand, the decks which would want that kind of thing already run many first- and doublestrikers to benefit from the same synergies.
Or, I suppose, there might be the topic of mana sinks. For instance, I am a huge fan of monsters with multiple 'phases' (Level Up, Eldrazi Werewolves, etc.) since that minimises time spent sitting in hand and maximises relevance across the duration of the game. But, something like Vildin-Pack Outcast might be a bit questionable by Peasant Standards, still. I keep it in because Trample helps even the base form be a battering ram when you need either damage done or a board stall resolved.
It’s physically painful how much this forum sucks now
I wish I had a playgroup (or even a play partner) anymore, but alas that isn't how things have gone in my life.
I would love to contribute more.
It is a shame.
If I ever get to talk about magic to anyone, it's only about my custom card cube.
My view on pet cards is that since it's not sanctioned play, it doesn't matter. Run the cards you enjoy, that's the whole purpose of cube. Min maxing everything is for constructed, cube is for playing the cards you like playing.
My overall view on cube balance is that the act of drafting inherently balances things out, so unless something is egregiously broken it should be fine.
And if a card is genuinely unplayable garbage, it's okay because it doesn't really effect the draft all that much. Having a dead card in your cube is equivalent to playing with 359 cards. At that point it's not a balance question, it's more of a, "How many slots do you want to waste on blank cards as opposed to interesting cards that may actually see play" question.
I've noticed that people give equal weight to criticism of bad cards and cards that are too good. That's wrong IMO. Ebony Horse is a bad card but it's not ruining any drafts.
It’s physically painful how much this forum sucks now
I wish I had a playgroup.
Get one. I've had a shrinking playgroup, but we still play from time to time. Maybe mmmm... like 15 times a year. Four, sometimes 6 people, every 3rd(ish) week. I'm married but the wife doesn't play much at all anymore. Maybe once a year.
What 2 (or 3) player draft format do you guys use?
I've noticed with the disparate power level of cards in my cube, the nature of Winston drafting means that one person will end up with a bunch of good cards the other had no real chance to draft.
There is more of a smoothing effect in an actual draft. Winston kind of turns it into a coin flip. When every card is generic good stuff it doesn't matter, when you have both Balance and Call for Blood in the same draft, it gets a bit swingy. Maybe the coin flip goes a certain way a few more times and the person that rips the Balance also rips other bombs.
This seemed to happen much less last time I actually drafted. There was a more even spread of power cards. Is there a 2 player draft format that mitigates this?
Lately I've been toying with a way to give Selesnya what feels like a real, synergistic identity while also being powerful enough to compete with other strategies.
Rather than trying to make Selesnya about tokens OR about +1/+1 counters, which were two of my main approaches, I realized I can do both at once. Tokens actually work really well with the Selesnya +1/+1 counter cards, as most of them focus on spreading the buffs around rather than putting a lot of counters on one specific creature.
The idea is instead of making a army of dorky 1/1 and then trying to trumpet blast your opponent, you can make an army of 2/2s and 3/3s and beat them down with pure stat advantage. The supporting cast would look something like:
Yeah, Sigil Captain is a very strong effect which does not synergise well with the rest of the deck that wants it. Though, by focusing on counter-based 'anthems', you can mitigate that anti-synergy considerably. I think that the idea is pretty sound although I worry a bit about the Heroic sub-theme with some of those cards (Phalanx Leader; other half of Season of Growth). While I know Phalanx Leader is really good when it gets going in the right deck, in Cube, the available card pool tends to limit its reliability - especially when there is an inherent anti-synergy between a focus on going wide and pants. Unless you have a separate pants strategy (which Selesnya also supports but which may also be done in Boros to some extent), I would probably exclude the good captain. That card needs the cross-synergy to motivate its inclusion since it is not fully at home in either archetype without splashes from the other.
Convoke also synergizes with tokens. If you play a bunch of tokens you'll be able to shove something like Autochthon Wurm easier.
The best banding card in a limited environment is probably Master of the Hunt since it can make an unlimited amount of creatures. Banding gives an entire group of creatures pants, that's why I like it so much. You could give that a try, it's the one banding creature I don't have in my cube since I try to stay away from cards that make infinite amounts of tokens.
Lately I've been toying with a way to give Selesnya what feels like a real, synergistic identity while also being powerful enough to compete with other strategies.
Rather than trying to make Selesnya about tokens OR about +1/+1 counters, which were two of my main approaches, I realized I can do both at once. Tokens actually work really well with the Selesnya +1/+1 counter cards, as most of them focus on spreading the buffs around rather than putting a lot of counters on one specific creature.
The idea is instead of making a army of dorky 1/1 and then trying to trumpet blast your opponent, you can make an army of 2/2s and 3/3s and beat them down with pure stat advantage. The supporting cast would look something like:
Thanks to the most recent $3 off orders from Ebay from the other week, I am now 14 Snow lands away from being fully Full Art Snow! NOW! I need to look at the Snow matters lands to see what could / should fit into a Cube that has gone this route!
Abominable Treefolk - Looks like it can get huge pretty easily... but do I want to devote a guild slot to that? Winter's Rest - Seems like a great "removal" Arcum's Astrolabe - I heard this card was doing things in other formats. Frostwalk Bastion - Having issues with which lands to put where as it is. Could be great at slowing down aggro decks. Icehide Golem - Speaking of aggro...
I looked through older snow permanents, but nothing caught my eye.
What is your opinions on snow stuff? I already have the lands (as mentioned) so that is not an issue. I am keeping the lands in the deck regardless if I add any snow stuff or not, so not going to FORCE anything in.
Also, if anyone is ever wanting to upgrade to snow lands like I have... the $3 off Ebay code is insane. I was getting 4 Snow Plains for 31 cents total, 8 Snow Mountains for 36 cents total. Forests were the most expensive at 80 cents for 4. Keep an eye out for the next time they do that sale and eat it up!
I understand that making a cube involves more than just giving players access to cards they love. Dash Hopes might find a home in some cubes where this punisher mechanic is a theme or a cube that tries to get people far out of their comfort zone.
About the blocking and flaming: Stop it please? While making controversial statements generalizing magic players is pointless, reacting to it in this way only sustains it. These posts are a report of a person's experience. Even if we experience things differently, isn't there something to be learned?
No, there is absolutely nothing that can be learned from his posts. He just keeps repeating the same nonsense (even with the same wording) over and over and over and over again. A lot of people, including me, have tried to get through to him and show him a different perspective. But he doesn't care and just starts his 'Magic players hate the game/see shroud and hexproof/playing terrible card x is like sprinkling holy water on a vampire and that's great because everything Magic players hate is great' nonsense all over again. Every. Single. Time.
I believe I'm a pretty nice guy and in all these years on this forum (post count is wrong, profile was reset due to change of site ownership) I've never ever considered blocking anyone, even if discussions could get a bit heated at times. But there is a point where discussion isn't possible anymore and that point was reached weeks ago for me already. And reading quoted comments by him like today shows me I was 100% right.
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I blocked him once, but MTGSalvation kept notifying me when he posted here, and out of morbid curiosity, I was fool enough to get baited again. I was chastised for how I responded (and rightly so - I'll admit I should have just ignored him rather than lashing out), so I blocked him again and have abstained from further commentary.
As for learning - we can only learn from people who are likewise willing and able to learn. If you disagree with me on a card's value and communicate reasonably what your experience has been, you could change my mind. If I have a different experience and communicate that, maybe I can convince you to try a card you wouldn't have otherwise. But if we give a well-reasoned post with rational statements to Salt, we are met with "anything Magic players hate is good for the game" - over and over, ad nauseam, sine fine, in perpetuum.
As for discussion of actual peasant cards - we've discussed Sol Ring a few times, and I wanted to bring it back because of my latest draft experience. It's the game I previously mentioned where I built a mono-black removal deck and lost a game to a roided up Kavu wearing Boots and a Warhammer while sneaking through the Rogue's Passage. I've reviewed the game multiple times in my head and came to one ironic conclusion - I lost the game because I pulled Sol Ring.
In pack three, I had fifteen choices, including Sol Ring and Swiftfoot Boots. Remembering our discussions here, I grabbed Sol Ring to see how much it would accelerate my deck, and I foolishly passed Swiftfoot Boots. Considering how much targeted removal I was packing, I should have at least hate-drafted the Boots (I did hate-draft Vine Mare, but that was later in a pack with less viable options for my own deck), but I chose not to for two specific reasons: 1) I wanted to consciously check the power level of Sol Ring, and 2) the odds are against me playing whoever pulls the Boots and even further against them pulling the card when it actually matters in a game against me.
Well, the Sol Ring was alright for me, even landing it turn one in a game or two, but it never directly contributed to a win for me - I couldn't be color-screwed thanks to a mono-color deck, I was only mana-screwed one game where I kept a one-land hand (no Ring) because I only needed to draw one more to get rolling, and I had plenty of removal for whatever my opponents threw at me in practically every game. Even against the Kavu, I had removal in hand before it killed me, but the Boots kept it safe. Honestly, if any one component (vigilance, hexproof, lifelink, unblockable) had been missing, I could have won by out-racing the Kavu or killing it through blocks or removal, but it was the perfect storm of abilities to foil my deck (such an epic thing to die from). And I would have won it with ease had I picked Swiftfoot Boots over Sol Ring. I still plan to actively monitor every draft where Sol Ring sees play, but at this point, I'm less concerned about its power level than I was before.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
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ManabaseCrafter
It's not that Magic players hate the game and that's why they like dumb uninteractive nonsense like Carnage Tyrant, it's that they prefer having their wins handed to them and prefer showing you their Cool Thing(tm) even if it's at the expense of everyone else playing the game. As opposed to playing a long interactive game where decisions matter.
So instead of winning by actually playing the game and making decisions, they'd rather just put Ethereal Armor and 3 Rancors on Bogles and Louis C.K. you. A lot of Magic games mirror modern board game design where no one truly interacts with each other, they're just playing "Multiplayer Solitaire".
The guy with the turn one bull***** combo deck is enjoying himself, no doubt. But his fun is at the expense of everyone else and he isn't truly playing the game, he's just playing with infinite ammo, all guns unlocked, and invincibility cheats enabled. And that's why Dash Hopes, Banding, Splice Onto Arcane, etc. are things that I like, because they're the polar opposite of that.
As far as Dash Hopes being a usable card, generally no. But in a burn deck it's fine. If you're swinging with a Skittering Skirge and they go to remove it, protecting it with Dash Hopes presents them with a situation where neither option is desirable and the lesser of the two evils is still 2 mana 5 damage.
My argument isn't that it's a generally competitive card, it's that it's a well designed one and its "flaws" are what make it well designed as opposed to a card that has zero ways to play around it, like Carnage Tyrant. It creates a more interesting, more fun and interactive game state than an uncounterable hexproof above curve trampler does.
One was designed by someone who put thought into card design.
Another was designed by a 7 year old smearing ice cream on his face.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I will keep monitoring the card, but I have never seen it break a game in peasant cube. I can even force it into our packs the next several drafts to make sure it gets use (400-card cube, so not every card gets drafted each time). I'd really be curious to hear specific experiences where it did break someone's draft.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Sol Ring may be ok in a slow multiplayer format like EDH (though it's still an unfair advantage in that format from my pov), but in any reasonably fast 1 vs 1 CU/be setting it will very noticeably increase win chances for any deck it is played in. I don't think there is a need to test that, it's just a matter of taste whether you think it's ok to have such a bomb in the cube or not.
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I don't have any experience with Sol Ring, but I do have experience with the 5 Moxes.
I was reasoned out of it with, "You'll be behind all game they're soo broken!"
Then I actually tried them out and they're okay. So you get to play a 5 drop on turn 4, who cares. They're just moderately better basic lands and no different than Llanowar Elves.
The only problem I've had with them is when someone drafted them all and a bunch of Talismans and slammed Armageddon. Yeah, that's obnoxious, but without that cards like Sol Ring are just fine.
Mana rocks also get much better once you start having a critical mass of them. It's one thing to have an extra land drop or two early, it's another to have 5 mana on turn 2.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
This is an odd statement to make in the same breath as Sol Ring. Sol Ring is two moxen, but wrapped in one card.
I can agree that when the power level of the spells is lower, the power level of ramp is lower. But these cards are still very very good. Llanowar Elves is already one of the best cards in peasant and moxen are meaningfully better than Llanowar Elves for the color fixing aspect and how hard they are to disrupt.
I'd draft Ninja of the Deep Hours before I'd draft Mox Sapphire. It would be a toss up if it was between The One True Ninja and Sol Ring. If I found a Sol Ring late in the draft and I was already in Blue, Ninja. If it was early in the draft and I hadn't committed to a color yet, probably Sol Ring although that's tough.
You can have all the mana you want but you still need an actual deck for it to power. You could slot the MTGO Vintage cube mana base and mana rock suite into your average Pauper cube and besides for the worldwake man lands it wouldn't make much of a difference.
I've created "Package Deal" cards for Tron and Cloudpost. One adds 3 of each Tron land to your draft pool, the other adds 3 of each Locus land to your pool. It ends up being okay, having a million mana on turn 6 doesn't give your War Elephant or Keiga, Tide Star extra +1/+1 counters on it or whatever. You still have to draw cards and unless your cube is filled with bomb 4-5 drops it'll be fine.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
There's not much to say here other than that I think your card evaluation skills aren't at a competitive level. Why are you bothering to try and grind out value with Ninja when you can just divination with non-evoked Mulldrifter on turn 3, etc.? Mana isn't a dichotomy with card advantage. They fuel each other.
I think your view of modern is off. Path to Exile, Fatal Push, Thoughtseize, Dismember and Snapcaster Mage are still among the 10 most played cards in modern. The format has a lot of proactive decks, but that doesn't mean the games are uninteractive. Even decks like Bogles, Ad Naus and Neoform can be interacted with, but you have to find your angle, as it were. If anything, these decks FORCE people to interact. No competative player is content with just playing Neoform Mirrors all day and going 4-4. People pick up these fast 'uninteractive' decks when they think the meta doesn't currently have the angle to interact with them. Once the meta catches on, it usually finds that angle. If modern was like you describe it, it wouldn't be thriving right now.
EDIT: I noticed I misread the original post
Magic is game full of cards which serve multiple roles. It's expected that all players will find some cards useless, bad or poorly designed. Wizards goal though is that every card will be loved by at least a few players (I'm still waiting to hear from any fans of Loathsome Catoblepas). While you (and I) don't find Carnage Tyrant to be an interesting card from a design perspective, I certainly can't deny that it does some things well. Namely:
I think the first point is pretty self evident so I won't go into it further. To give you some context on the second point - Carnage Tyrant actually served a crucial role in Standard during Kaladesh-Ixalan standard (the only standard format I've played much of in the last few years). I was playing one of the best decks in the format at the time - UWx control (specifically UWB in my case). That deck aimed to leverage the card and mana advantage of Teferi, Hero of Dominaria to kill or counter the opponent's entire deck until winning with either Torrential Gearhulk or milling them out. Once you finally take control with the UWx deck, the game is over in 90% of cases. The only card I feared in those situations was Carnage Tyrant and as a result it kept my deck honest and prevented it from taking over even more of the meta. Sure, they could have designed some other more complicated and "interesting" card to bully my Teferi deck, but they didn't have to and plenty of people had a lot of fun casting their Tyrants. I certainly had a lot of fun wrecking them.
I agree with you that Dash Hopes is a more interesting design from a cerebral point of view, but that's only one way to evaluate a card. Additionally, the choice with Dash Hopes (and punisher cards more generally) is not a difficult one in most cases for anyone who understands the relative value of resources in Magic. Generally the card just says "the controller of target spell loses 5 life".
Just because you value one attribute of a card doesn't mean that people are "wrong" or "stupid" or "hate magic" for valuing other attributes. It's little wonder that people here have been treating you like a pariah when you go out of your way to:
I really do wonder if this is just a persona you've put on for the forums, or if you're actually this antisocial in real life. I have to believe it's the former. You've claimed to play magic with people IRL from time to time and I can't imagine somebody who acts the way you do in their daily life successfully forming and maintaining friendships.
You misread his post. He was talking about modern board games, not the format.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
If a degenerate card was needed to keep another degenerate card in check, I'd rather the original degeneracy just not exist in the first place. If Teferi was so degenerate that a card like Carnage Tyrant was needed, they should have just banned Teferi instead of swallowing the spider to catch the fly.
Before I played Magic, I played X-Wing Miniatures. The problem with that game was that instead of banning or nerfing degeneracy, they just kept on printing answers that were themselves degenerate. After a while the game became a Russian nesting doll of cancer where none of the core game mechanics mattered anymore.
I occasionally state my opinions in real life. I try to be polite about it, I don't call people knuckledraggers to their face and I hate the game, not the player. I have friends that I play the game with, I don't get to see many of them as much as I used to a year ago when I didn't work from 6pm until 2am M-F. Before work I hangout with my best friend a few times a week and we Winston draft each others cubes.
Also, insulting Magic players while being one, sure. I got suspended from the forums for saying that Magic players are incapable of nuance and that's why they won't play with rares because they can't control themselves and recently I had to be talked out of having Armageddon in my cube and have to fight the urge to put Stasis in my cube. I'm being corrupted too, lol.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
The biggest thing I still wonder about concerns when 'pet cards' can be justified from a design standpoint. As in, if a CU/be is generally built towards greater power, at what point do detractors from that begin to imbalance the options available to players. For instance, I did end up adding Syr Faren, the Hengehammer from the newest set because I remain a Timmy and Melvin at heart and seeing them numbers go up in a manner which affords multiple forms of mechanical interactions warms my heart. Another example might be Kwende, Pride of Femeref which has me prioritising firststrikers in terms of available options. When you *do* manage that Valor + Kwende play, after all, it is something truly special at Peasant level but on the other hand, the decks which would want that kind of thing already run many first- and doublestrikers to benefit from the same synergies.
Or, I suppose, there might be the topic of mana sinks. For instance, I am a huge fan of monsters with multiple 'phases' (Level Up, Eldrazi Werewolves, etc.) since that minimises time spent sitting in hand and maximises relevance across the duration of the game. But, something like Vildin-Pack Outcast might be a bit questionable by Peasant Standards, still. I keep it in because Trample helps even the base form be a battering ram when you need either damage done or a board stall resolved.
I wish I had a playgroup (or even a play partner) anymore, but alas that isn't how things have gone in my life.
I would love to contribute more.
It is a shame.
If I ever get to talk about magic to anyone, it's only about my custom card cube.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My overall view on cube balance is that the act of drafting inherently balances things out, so unless something is egregiously broken it should be fine.
And if a card is genuinely unplayable garbage, it's okay because it doesn't really effect the draft all that much. Having a dead card in your cube is equivalent to playing with 359 cards. At that point it's not a balance question, it's more of a, "How many slots do you want to waste on blank cards as opposed to interesting cards that may actually see play" question.
I've noticed that people give equal weight to criticism of bad cards and cards that are too good. That's wrong IMO. Ebony Horse is a bad card but it's not ruining any drafts.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I've noticed with the disparate power level of cards in my cube, the nature of Winston drafting means that one person will end up with a bunch of good cards the other had no real chance to draft.
There is more of a smoothing effect in an actual draft. Winston kind of turns it into a coin flip. When every card is generic good stuff it doesn't matter, when you have both Balance and Call for Blood in the same draft, it gets a bit swingy. Maybe the coin flip goes a certain way a few more times and the person that rips the Balance also rips other bombs.
This seemed to happen much less last time I actually drafted. There was a more even spread of power cards. Is there a 2 player draft format that mitigates this?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Rather than trying to make Selesnya about tokens OR about +1/+1 counters, which were two of my main approaches, I realized I can do both at once. Tokens actually work really well with the Selesnya +1/+1 counter cards, as most of them focus on spreading the buffs around rather than putting a lot of counters on one specific creature.
The idea is instead of making a army of dorky 1/1 and then trying to trumpet blast your opponent, you can make an army of 2/2s and 3/3s and beat them down with pure stat advantage. The supporting cast would look something like:
+1/+1 Counters
Token Makers:
Both:
Other:
I'm sure there are other possibilities, but this is just my first pass at scryfall.
PS It's a shame how anthems interact with Sigil Captain.
May I suggest cards that give you +1/+1 for how many creatures you have?
Eidolon of Countless Battles and Veteran Armaments for example. There is a green */* creature called Scion of whatever that's has P/T equal to the amount of creatures you control.
Convoke also synergizes with tokens. If you play a bunch of tokens you'll be able to shove something like Autochthon Wurm easier.
The best banding card in a limited environment is probably Master of the Hunt since it can make an unlimited amount of creatures. Banding gives an entire group of creatures pants, that's why I like it so much. You could give that a try, it's the one banding creature I don't have in my cube since I try to stay away from cards that make infinite amounts of tokens.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Abominable Treefolk - Looks like it can get huge pretty easily... but do I want to devote a guild slot to that?
Winter's Rest - Seems like a great "removal"
Arcum's Astrolabe - I heard this card was doing things in other formats.
Frostwalk Bastion - Having issues with which lands to put where as it is. Could be great at slowing down aggro decks.
Icehide Golem - Speaking of aggro...
I looked through older snow permanents, but nothing caught my eye.
What is your opinions on snow stuff? I already have the lands (as mentioned) so that is not an issue. I am keeping the lands in the deck regardless if I add any snow stuff or not, so not going to FORCE anything in.
Also, if anyone is ever wanting to upgrade to snow lands like I have... the $3 off Ebay code is insane. I was getting 4 Snow Plains for 31 cents total, 8 Snow Mountains for 36 cents total. Forests were the most expensive at 80 cents for 4. Keep an eye out for the next time they do that sale and eat it up!
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647