Deferring to designer intent is... extremely shallow minded. The cards work the way they do with or without the foresight of one man.
An absurdly large amount of combos and interactions would be thrown out the window.
I thought I was going to pretend like this guy's posts didnt exist anymore (good advice) but the wild ideas just keep coming.
I don't consider combo to count as Magic, so I'm okay with that. In Richard Garfield's latest game Keyforge, infinite loops are limited to six activations per turn or something.
Breaking the game =/= MtG. I know that's an opinion I'm not allowed to express of course, which is exactly why I'm expressing it. Dark Depths was designed to require actually paying 30 mana for the huge creature, not with Vampire Hexmage in mind.
As far as Richard Garfield's favorite deck being Infinite Shahrazad goes, there is a reason you haven't been able to do that for a very long time.
As far as counterfeit cards go, I subscribe to The Man In The High Castle attitude about fake objects. It doesn't really matter whether or not this civil war revolver or Mickey Mouse watch from the 30's is real as long as it makes the customer happy. I don't want to go to jail for fraud so I'm not going to sell them to the FLGS.
I get the same joy looking at my fake Shahrazad as I would if it was real, with the additional joy of only having spent single digits on it.
Magic should be an LCG. Magic is just the 1993 version of lootboxes. It's gambling and pay to win. A game based around artificial scarcity of its playing pieces is cancer.
Ultimately though it's not the fault of the secondary market for ruining Magic. The only thing that Magic players hate more than the price of cards is scribbling them down on scraps of paper, sharpie'ing basic lands, printing them out at Kinko's, etc.
The real problem with the secondary market isn't how expensive it is, it's the unwillingness of Magic players to play with proxies even outside of sanctioned events. Everytime I hear someone bemoan how expensive Commander is I laugh.
I use counterfeits just because I want nice looking cards for my cube.
"I don't consider combo to count as Magic"
.................................................................................................................what???
The united states is currently having a problem with the way people get elected.
A growing coalition of states are considering the ratification of an agreement that effectively allows them to ignore the law. However, it doesn't work unless a lot of states sign on to create a kind of majority, but if enough of them ignore the traditions then the law effectively doesn't exist.
I, uh, wonder if everyone catches the point of my story
"I don't consider combo to count as Magic"
.................................................................................................................what???
"All combos are unintended mistake interactions"
Stop.
Of course if degenerate nonsense combos have been hyper normalized for years and you remove all context and examples from my post, it's easier to make it sound as if I'm a crazy person.
The fact remains that Dark Depths was not designed with Vampire Hexmage in mind. No combo decks are. They're all unintended consequences of this game having 20,000 unique cards in it. Why is this such an unreasonable argument that I'm not allowed to make?
And no, I don't understand your analogy. Enlighten me, please.
"I don't consider combo to count as Magic"
.................................................................................................................what???
"All combos are unintended mistake interactions"
Stop.
Of course if degenerate nonsense combos have been hyper normalized for years and you remove all context and examples from my post, it's easier to make it sound as if I'm a crazy person.
The fact remains that Dark Depths was not designed with Vampire Hexmage in mind. No combo decks are. They're all unintended consequences of this game having 20,000 unique cards in it. Why is this such an unreasonable argument that I'm not allowed to make?
And no, I don't understand your analogy. Enlighten me, please.
Black Lotus, Channel, Fireball. "Normalized for years," you say, yet it's arguably been normalized since Alpha. Same set, and completely Richard Garfield's original design.
"I don't consider combo to count as Magic"
.................................................................................................................what???
"All combos are unintended mistake interactions"
Stop.
Of course if degenerate nonsense combos have been hyper normalized for years and you remove all context and examples from my post, it's easier to make it sound as if I'm a crazy person.
The fact remains that Dark Depths was not designed with Vampire Hexmage in mind. No combo decks are. They're all unintended consequences of this game having 20,000 unique cards in it. Why is this such an unreasonable argument that I'm not allowed to make?
And no, I don't understand your analogy. Enlighten me, please.
Black Lotus, Channel, Fireball. "Normalized for years," you say, yet it's arguably been normalized since Alpha. Same set, and completely Richard Garfield's original design.
And that combo is banned or restricted in every format it would otherwise be legal in.
Magic was the first game like this. It's understandable that the first set isn't balanced.
Obviously he didn't intend for 20 copies of Shahrazad + 20 copies of Mox Pearl or Channel + Fireball to be viable either. There are good reasons why you can no longer do those anymore. Richard Garfield didn't intend for these interactions to be broken.
RG also didn't think these cards would be worth anything and therefore saw no problem with playing for Ante. Apparently he has said before that he believes cards shouldn't cost more than $20.
Mistakes happen, things don't always go as you intend them to, and my argument is that Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage is one of those unintended problems. Just like infinite Shahrazad or Channel + Fireball.
don't play Dark Depths if you're playing Vampire Hexmage.
Don't play Channel if you're playing Fireball.
You don't have to allow these things in your cube if you don't want them. I have Channel/Fireball in my main cube, but I think it's only ever won one game. I don't begrudge it that, though a big part of that is the size of my cube.
Nevertheless, you can control your cube to remove broken combos. Some people like them. Some people adore them. Some people find them tedious. I personally don't like combos that instantly win the game, but my main problem with two-card combos is that it rewards players who know those specific combos are over players who haven't ever seen them.
don't play Dark Depths if you're playing Vampire Hexmage.
Don't play Channel if you're playing Fireball.
You don't have to allow these things in your cube if you don't want them. I have Channel/Fireball in my main cube, but I think it's only ever won one game. I don't begrudge it that, though a big part of that is the size of my cube.
Nevertheless, you can control your cube to remove broken combos. Some people like them. Some people adore them. Some people find them tedious. I personally don't like combos that instantly win the game, but my main problem with two-card combos is that it rewards players who know those specific combos are over players who haven't ever seen them.
Yeah, I agree.
When I stated that I'd like to play Dark Depths without the combo and as the card was intended I was called shallow minded and it was implied that what I was saying was a crazy out of line idea.
And then everyone wonders why I've developed an opinion like, "Everything that Magic players hate is good for the game." I wonder why.
I don't consider combo to count as Magic, so I'm okay with that. In Richard Garfield's latest game Keyforge, infinite loops are limited to six activations per turn or something.
I'm presuming you're talking about 2 card game winning combos. There are so few of those that actually see play I'm confused why this is an issue. Hexmage + Depths and Presence + Guard see no play outside of commander (where everything sees play). Twin and Catlady saw a lot of play but were both banned. The only 2 card combo I can think of that sees play outside of commander is Depths + Stage.
If you're talking about combo outside of 2 card combos, WotC pretty obviously designs cards with combo in mind. Even if you ignore storm, Past in Flames, rituals, etc. due to age (which is a lot of allowances), Thousand-Year Storm is 100% a combo orientated card.
When I stated that I'd like to play Dark Depths without the combo and as the card was intended I was called shallow minded and it was implied that what I was saying was a crazy out of line idea.
Dark Depths played as intended is just not a good card. If you're spending 30 mana and a land drop on something that doesn't even automatically win the game you're just styling on your opponent in every format.
When I stated that I'd like to play Dark Depths without the combo and as the card was intended I was called shallow minded and it was implied that what I was saying was a crazy out of line idea.
It looks like you feel you need to defend yourself a lot for your views.
When looking at the above (which I read as what your stance was all along), I don't think anyone would call you crazy. I wouldn't. But it's slightly different from what I thought your point was after reading the discussion for the first time.
Nuance is the key here. 'Combo is not Magic' is different than 'some unintented interactions are problematic'. 'Playing the game as was intented by Richard Garfield' is different than 'Playing Dark Depths as the card was designed'. 'I prefer to' is different than 'People should'.
Strong words, definite statements and generalization get answered with more of the same. Which is fine if that's what you're looking for and when it's needed. It can also be unhelpful when you want people to understand the nuance of your point.
Tl;dr: what you mean is not always what people understand. The words you use matter.
--
More on topic: I'm not a fan of game-winning 2 card combos in my cubes and try to avoid them. However if the cards are good enough on their own and have a lot of synergy with the rest of the cube, I might choose to keep them in regardless. Especially when the combo is hard to find or requires a very specific setup or situation to work. I had both Midnight Guard and Presence of Gond in my tribal Peasant Cube, and both were doing a lot of cool things. I cut the guard though, because I don't want random game wins off the combo.
I don't consider combo to count as Magic, so I'm okay with that. In Richard Garfield's latest game Keyforge, infinite loops are limited to six activations per turn or something.
I'm presuming you're talking about 2 card game winning combos. There are so few of those that actually see play I'm confused why this is an issue. Hexmage + Depths and Presence + Guard see no play outside of commander (where everything sees play). Twin and Catlady saw a lot of play but were both banned. The only 2 card combo I can think of that sees play outside of commander is Depths + Stage.
If you're talking about combo outside of 2 card combos, WotC pretty obviously designs cards with combo in mind. Even if you ignore storm, Past in Flames, rituals, etc. due to age (which is a lot of allowances), Thousand-Year Storm is 100% a combo orientated card.
When I stated that I'd like to play Dark Depths without the combo and as the card was intended I was called shallow minded and it was implied that what I was saying was a crazy out of line idea.
Dark Depths played as intended is just not a good card. If you're spending 30 mana and a land drop on something that doesn't even automatically win the game you're just styling on your opponent in every format.
1.) In Pauper combos like that exist. Presence of Gond + Midnight Guard, or the "Life" Combo where you make a creature with infinite toughness with Nomads En-Kor and then sac it and gain life equal to its toughness and then kill with decking or pestilence or whatever. Some of the more involved ones that involve Lotus Petal and rituals and dumb ***** like Balustrade Spy and such exist too. While amusing, after a few games I'd rather them just not exist. Solitaire =/= Magic.
2.) In my cube I lost to Tyrannize when I was at 5 life -> hard cast Worldspine Wurm. If he didn't have the Tyrannize I would have been able to play a Bandin.g creature and disregard Trample
This is because the rules for Trample are something like, "If you deal lethal damage to all creatures blocking it, the excess spills over to the player that controls it" and Banding allows you to block a 15/15 with two 1/1's and not take lethal on both of them if you don't want to.
Anyways, if hardcast Worldspine Wurm is reasonable in my cube, Dark Depths as intended is probably too.
I would agree that trying to play Dark Depths as a fair card is a very bad call in cube. For win-cons in slow decks, there are much better options. I recommend Approach of the Second Sun. I've had good results with it. I think even a hardcast Desolation Twin is a better strategy than Dark Depths, and honestly I do think that card was designed with the thought of "maybe someday they'll do something with this." Combos are accidental, but combo potential is sometimes intentional. Anyway, the intent of the designers has very little bearing on how cards actually play. But yeah, if your cube is as slow as you describe, Dark Depths is fine. Still, it sounds like games are gonna go too long, and you'd do better finishing with Curse of the Pierced Heart, or much better Sphinx's Tutelage.
All that said, this really just isn't the place to discuss rares like most of the cards I've mentioned. We're in the Peasant Cube Discussion Thread, and we should respect that.
And I know it's been said before, but SaltMaster, you'd do a lot better to stop saying what is and isn't the right way to play Magic. Play how you want to and let others play how they want to. If they want to play strategies that you call solitaire, that is every bit their right, and it's silly to tell them they're wrong for it. It's no wonder everyone's always telling you you're wrong for doing the strange things you like. Nobody has to be cosmically wrong; Magic encompasses all this and more. You'd draw a lot less flack if you toned it down 5% on the rhetoric. We're all here for funzies.
So what are good win-cons for do-nothing control decks in peasant? Sphinx's Tutelage has proven great for me, as has Hedron Crab. I've had early Hedron Crabs be the deciding factor long long after they are removed. Do most of you just play creatures for the win con? I'm playing rares on the top end at every color, since it's easy to find jank rare 7-drops. So those who don't do that, what do you do?
Pauper sounds weirder and weirder to me every time it comes up.
////////
I find dedicating slots solely to a wincon in control is overkill. UR can pretty commonly just burn the last 10+ points with some recursion and deal the rest with random utility creatures; I'm a big fan of Shreds of Sanity, which makes burn way more consistent as a wincon. UB can do something similar with Ribbons of Night/etb drain creatures and all the value creatures chipping in.
Rise from the Tides works, but it takes a long time to fill your yard without looters and it forces a low creature count, which isn't always ideal. The tokens etbt too, which has lost me a number of games in decks that rely on Rise to win.
I would agree that trying to play Dark Depths as a fair card is a very bad call in cube. For win-cons in slow decks, there are much better options. I recommend Approach of the Second Sun. I've had good results with it. I think even a hardcast Desolation Twin is a better strategy than Dark Depths, and honestly I do think that card was designed with the thought of "maybe someday they'll do something with this." Combos are accidental, but combo potential is sometimes intentional. Anyway, the intent of the designers has very little bearing on how cards actually play. But yeah, if your cube is as slow as you describe, Dark Depths is fine. Still, it sounds like games are gonna go too long, and you'd do better finishing with Curse of the Pierced Heart, or much better Sphinx's Tutelage.
All that said, this really just isn't the place to discuss rares like most of the cards I've mentioned. We're in the Peasant Cube Discussion Thread, and we should respect that.
And I know it's been said before, but SaltMaster, you'd do a lot better to stop saying what is and isn't the right way to play Magic. Play how you want to and let others play how they want to. If they want to play strategies that you call solitaire, that is every bit their right, and it's silly to tell them they're wrong for it. It's no wonder everyone's always telling you you're wrong for doing the strange things you like. Nobody has to be cosmically wrong; Magic encompasses all this and more. You'd draw a lot less flack if you toned it down 5% on the rhetoric. We're all here for funzies.
So what are good win-cons for do-nothing control decks in peasant? Sphinx's Tutelage has proven great for me, as has Hedron Crab. I've had early Hedron Crabs be the deciding factor long long after they are removed. Do most of you just play creatures for the win con? I'm playing rares on the top end at every color, since it's easy to find jank rare 7-drops. So those who don't do that, what do you do?
I disagree that Dark Depths was designed with combo potential in mind. This was a set that brought back the... cumulative upkeep mechanic. And look, I like dumb mechanics but most cumulative upkeep cards suck hard. The only mechanic that's worse is Phasing.
So yes, I do legitimately believe that someone at wizards thought it would be interesting to actually have to pay 30 mana for the flying indestructible 20/20 token it makes. There is even a $13 foil promo token for it. I mean, it's not *quite* 30 mana, it's 30 mana over multiple turns. Actually hardcasting it is probably comparable to hard casting a 10-11-12 mana creature depending on how early you can play the land.
The other win con cards you suggested seem boring to me. I like the big higher end creatures, it's exciting and not something that exists in Pauper except for Ulamog's Crusher.
No one is on this website and people don't often post in the all rarities cube forum. All of these forums should probably be consolidated. So if I occasionally mention a rare I don't see the problem. There should just be one cube megathread with 9 people posting in it as opposed to 3 different threads each with 3 people (not) posting in them.
But there is nothing that 20 something males love more than needlessly categorizing things so that reasonable idea won't happen.
I don't respect people that like degenerate solitaire Magic because the degenerate solitaire that they're apologists for is at the expensive of everyone else's fun. It's the Magic equivalent of swinging your fists into someone's nose. So ultimately they don't respect what I like so I see zero issue calling them on it.
Now this is cube, not constructed Magic so it should be different however literally every time that I bring up a card I like someone comes along to ***** on it and call me a troll.
Why would I respect what others like if they don't respect what I like?
When I worked at a Pizza Hut someone had the radio on while we worked in the kitchen. I asked for a turn to play music that I liked, and my request was granted. So when I turned on 30's French music (a Rina Ketty song) the manager gave me a disgusted look and turned it off.
Now I go around thinking that only idiots enjoy modern radio music and their tastes are lesser than mine. That's what everyone else thinks of what I like. *shrug*
"Of course if degenerate nonsense combos have been hyper normalized for years..."
All I've done is play cube for the better part of a decade. I have had a depowered list for years. You are picking the wrong fight with the wrong guy with your game of generalizations.
"...[if] you remove all context and examples from my post, it's easier to make it sound as if I'm a crazy person."
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I don't consider combo to count as Magic, so I'm okay with that. In Richard Garfield's latest game Keyforge, infinite loops are limited to six activations per turn or something.
All combos are unintended mistake interactions. Presence of Gond wasn't designed with Midnight Guard in mind.
Breaking the game =/= MtG. I know that's an opinion I'm not allowed to express of course, which is exactly why I'm expressing it. Dark Depths was designed to require actually paying 30 mana for the huge creature, not with Vampire Hexmage in mind.
As far as Richard Garfield's favorite deck being Infinite Shahrazad goes, there is a reason you haven't been able to do that for a very long time.
As far as counterfeit cards go, I subscribe to The Man In The High Castle attitude about fake objects. It doesn't really matter whether or not this civil war revolver or Mickey Mouse watch from the 30's is real as long as it makes the customer happy. I don't want to go to jail for fraud so I'm not going to sell them to the FLGS.
I get the same joy looking at my fake Shahrazad as I would if it was real, with the additional joy of only having spent single digits on it.
Magic should be an LCG. Magic is just the 1993 version of lootboxes. It's gambling and pay to win. A game based around artificial scarcity of its playing pieces is cancer.
Ultimately though it's not the fault of the secondary market for ruining Magic. The only thing that Magic players hate more than the price of cards is scribbling them down on scraps of paper, sharpie'ing basic lands, printing them out at Kinko's, etc.
The real problem with the secondary market isn't how expensive it is, it's the unwillingness of Magic players to play with proxies even outside of sanctioned events. Everytime I hear someone bemoan how expensive Commander is I laugh.
I use counterfeits just because I want nice looking cards for my cube.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I too would be happy to limit infinite loops to a specified number of repetitions.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
.................................................................................................................what???
"All combos are unintended mistake interactions"
Stop.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
A growing coalition of states are considering the ratification of an agreement that effectively allows them to ignore the law. However, it doesn't work unless a lot of states sign on to create a kind of majority, but if enough of them ignore the traditions then the law effectively doesn't exist.
I, uh, wonder if everyone catches the point of my story
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Of course if degenerate nonsense combos have been hyper normalized for years and you remove all context and examples from my post, it's easier to make it sound as if I'm a crazy person.
The fact remains that Dark Depths was not designed with Vampire Hexmage in mind. No combo decks are. They're all unintended consequences of this game having 20,000 unique cards in it. Why is this such an unreasonable argument that I'm not allowed to make?
And no, I don't understand your analogy. Enlighten me, please.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
And that combo is banned or restricted in every format it would otherwise be legal in.
Magic was the first game like this. It's understandable that the first set isn't balanced.
Obviously he didn't intend for 20 copies of Shahrazad + 20 copies of Mox Pearl or Channel + Fireball to be viable either. There are good reasons why you can no longer do those anymore. Richard Garfield didn't intend for these interactions to be broken.
RG also didn't think these cards would be worth anything and therefore saw no problem with playing for Ante. Apparently he has said before that he believes cards shouldn't cost more than $20.
Mistakes happen, things don't always go as you intend them to, and my argument is that Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage is one of those unintended problems. Just like infinite Shahrazad or Channel + Fireball.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
don't play Dark Depths if you're playing Vampire Hexmage.
Don't play Channel if you're playing Fireball.
You don't have to allow these things in your cube if you don't want them. I have Channel/Fireball in my main cube, but I think it's only ever won one game. I don't begrudge it that, though a big part of that is the size of my cube.
Nevertheless, you can control your cube to remove broken combos. Some people like them. Some people adore them. Some people find them tedious. I personally don't like combos that instantly win the game, but my main problem with two-card combos is that it rewards players who know those specific combos are over players who haven't ever seen them.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
Yeah, I agree.
When I stated that I'd like to play Dark Depths without the combo and as the card was intended I was called shallow minded and it was implied that what I was saying was a crazy out of line idea.
And then everyone wonders why I've developed an opinion like, "Everything that Magic players hate is good for the game." I wonder why.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
If you're talking about combo outside of 2 card combos, WotC pretty obviously designs cards with combo in mind. Even if you ignore storm, Past in Flames, rituals, etc. due to age (which is a lot of allowances), Thousand-Year Storm is 100% a combo orientated card.
Dark Depths played as intended is just not a good card. If you're spending 30 mana and a land drop on something that doesn't even automatically win the game you're just styling on your opponent in every format.
It looks like you feel you need to defend yourself a lot for your views.
When looking at the above (which I read as what your stance was all along), I don't think anyone would call you crazy. I wouldn't. But it's slightly different from what I thought your point was after reading the discussion for the first time.
Nuance is the key here. 'Combo is not Magic' is different than 'some unintented interactions are problematic'. 'Playing the game as was intented by Richard Garfield' is different than 'Playing Dark Depths as the card was designed'. 'I prefer to' is different than 'People should'.
Strong words, definite statements and generalization get answered with more of the same. Which is fine if that's what you're looking for and when it's needed. It can also be unhelpful when you want people to understand the nuance of your point.
Tl;dr: what you mean is not always what people understand. The words you use matter.
--
More on topic: I'm not a fan of game-winning 2 card combos in my cubes and try to avoid them. However if the cards are good enough on their own and have a lot of synergy with the rest of the cube, I might choose to keep them in regardless. Especially when the combo is hard to find or requires a very specific setup or situation to work. I had both Midnight Guard and Presence of Gond in my tribal Peasant Cube, and both were doing a lot of cool things. I cut the guard though, because I don't want random game wins off the combo.
My Cubes:
Peasant Travel Cube on CubeCobra (180 cards, modern frames) (mtgsalvation thread can be found here)
I had a blog for a while @ peasant-cube.blogspot.com where I may or may not post again, lol
1.) In Pauper combos like that exist. Presence of Gond + Midnight Guard, or the "Life" Combo where you make a creature with infinite toughness with Nomads En-Kor and then sac it and gain life equal to its toughness and then kill with decking or pestilence or whatever. Some of the more involved ones that involve Lotus Petal and rituals and dumb ***** like Balustrade Spy and such exist too. While amusing, after a few games I'd rather them just not exist. Solitaire =/= Magic.
2.) In my cube I lost to Tyrannize when I was at 5 life -> hard cast Worldspine Wurm. If he didn't have the Tyrannize I would have been able to play a Bandin.g creature and disregard Trample
This is because the rules for Trample are something like, "If you deal lethal damage to all creatures blocking it, the excess spills over to the player that controls it" and Banding allows you to block a 15/15 with two 1/1's and not take lethal on both of them if you don't want to.
Anyways, if hardcast Worldspine Wurm is reasonable in my cube, Dark Depths as intended is probably too.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
All that said, this really just isn't the place to discuss rares like most of the cards I've mentioned. We're in the Peasant Cube Discussion Thread, and we should respect that.
And I know it's been said before, but SaltMaster, you'd do a lot better to stop saying what is and isn't the right way to play Magic. Play how you want to and let others play how they want to. If they want to play strategies that you call solitaire, that is every bit their right, and it's silly to tell them they're wrong for it. It's no wonder everyone's always telling you you're wrong for doing the strange things you like. Nobody has to be cosmically wrong; Magic encompasses all this and more. You'd draw a lot less flack if you toned it down 5% on the rhetoric. We're all here for funzies.
So what are good win-cons for do-nothing control decks in peasant? Sphinx's Tutelage has proven great for me, as has Hedron Crab. I've had early Hedron Crabs be the deciding factor long long after they are removed. Do most of you just play creatures for the win con? I'm playing rares on the top end at every color, since it's easy to find jank rare 7-drops. So those who don't do that, what do you do?
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
I haven't tried it, but I know people have been running Rise from the tides.
Also Sphinx of the Guildpact.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
////////
I find dedicating slots solely to a wincon in control is overkill. UR can pretty commonly just burn the last 10+ points with some recursion and deal the rest with random utility creatures; I'm a big fan of Shreds of Sanity, which makes burn way more consistent as a wincon. UB can do something similar with Ribbons of Night/etb drain creatures and all the value creatures chipping in.
Rise from the Tides works, but it takes a long time to fill your yard without looters and it forces a low creature count, which isn't always ideal. The tokens etbt too, which has lost me a number of games in decks that rely on Rise to win.
Psychic Spiral is another one that I always discounted. Do people get a lot of mill wins off of this? I could certainly see that happening.
I play Rise from the Tides. So far, results are middling. It's been pretty good, but it's never been the big finisher for me.
I'm still not seeing anything that looks better than the aforementioned Hedron Crab and Sphinx's Tutelage, which I reckon to be undervalued.
It's true though that Sphinx of the Guildpact is hard to argue with. It wins the comparison with most rare 7-drops.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
I disagree that Dark Depths was designed with combo potential in mind. This was a set that brought back the... cumulative upkeep mechanic. And look, I like dumb mechanics but most cumulative upkeep cards suck hard. The only mechanic that's worse is Phasing.
So yes, I do legitimately believe that someone at wizards thought it would be interesting to actually have to pay 30 mana for the flying indestructible 20/20 token it makes. There is even a $13 foil promo token for it. I mean, it's not *quite* 30 mana, it's 30 mana over multiple turns. Actually hardcasting it is probably comparable to hard casting a 10-11-12 mana creature depending on how early you can play the land.
The other win con cards you suggested seem boring to me. I like the big higher end creatures, it's exciting and not something that exists in Pauper except for Ulamog's Crusher.
No one is on this website and people don't often post in the all rarities cube forum. All of these forums should probably be consolidated. So if I occasionally mention a rare I don't see the problem. There should just be one cube megathread with 9 people posting in it as opposed to 3 different threads each with 3 people (not) posting in them.
But there is nothing that 20 something males love more than needlessly categorizing things so that reasonable idea won't happen.
I don't respect people that like degenerate solitaire Magic because the degenerate solitaire that they're apologists for is at the expensive of everyone else's fun. It's the Magic equivalent of swinging your fists into someone's nose. So ultimately they don't respect what I like so I see zero issue calling them on it.
Now this is cube, not constructed Magic so it should be different however literally every time that I bring up a card I like someone comes along to ***** on it and call me a troll.
Why would I respect what others like if they don't respect what I like?
When I worked at a Pizza Hut someone had the radio on while we worked in the kitchen. I asked for a turn to play music that I liked, and my request was granted. So when I turned on 30's French music (a Rina Ketty song) the manager gave me a disgusted look and turned it off.
Now I go around thinking that only idiots enjoy modern radio music and their tastes are lesser than mine. That's what everyone else thinks of what I like. *shrug*
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
bottom-most of six options
"ignore user"
improve life significantly
thank you for this
Does it matter? It's not like you're playing ~~REAL MAGIC~~ anyway
All I've done is play cube for the better part of a decade. I have had a depowered list for years. You are picking the wrong fight with the wrong guy with your game of generalizations.
"...[if] you remove all context and examples from my post, it's easier to make it sound as if I'm a crazy person."
https://images.app.goo.gl/q1ESts5WFhGzx3s99
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article