My guess is it'll be like legends in Dominaria - one per pack at uncommon and above rarity. As for power level, who knows. Dominaria spread the power around rather than concentrating it all in upper rarities (speaking from a Commander POV, not necessarily Modern, Standard, or other formats).
Maro has talked about how having a planeswalker in every pack is only being possible because of developments in their printers card collation technology. That would imply that it's not going to be its own slot in the pack, but rather mixed in like legends in Dominaria.
He's also said that the success of more complex/powerful uncommons in Dominaria caused Wizards to reevaluate how they handle power level and complexity at uncommon. Given that Dominaria released about a year before WOTS, that probably meant WOTS could be adjusted reflect the feedback from Dominaria.
I wouldn't be shocked to see Planeswalkers at uncommon, but I also wouldn't be shocked if they did something radical (think along the lines of Sagas) to have "planeswalkers" at lower rarities.
Peasant Cube on a Budget - Multicolor
Did I get the guilds sorted out correctly? I had a couple of pet cards sneak in in the end, but they felt right, so...
Hi! I am new to this forum, nice to make your acquaintance! I've been tinkering with my CU/be for the better part of two years, shamelessly stealing from various lists I feel at least overlaps somewhat with my own ideas of 'fun'. My playgroup is a bit too inexperienced/doesn't draft it enough to be able to suggest changes consistently, so I turn toward this thread for some feedback. I felt it was only natural that I introduce myself and step into the light. I was wondering if anyone cared to look through my list (It's in the signature) and see if they find anything that they would deem unnecessary inclusions. Also: any slam dunk staples that I have missed?
My cube currently supports the following archetypes:
WU: Blink Control
UB: Saboteurs / Control
BR: Aggro / Aristocrats
RG: Midrange / Tokens
GW: Enchantress / Tokens
WB: Aristocrats
UR: Spells Matter / Control
BG: Graves / Reanimator
RW: Equipment-Aura Double Strike aggro / Go Wide
GU: Flash / Draw-go, though it feels a tad forced
... And I try to support 3 color decks, because I feel it unlocks some very interesting hybrids as well as raising the roof for cross-pollination inclusions.
Nothing stands out to much to me. Most of the unusual choices are archetype support which I don't know if there are better options for at 600. Your curve is a bit weird at some places though, like only having 6 black 3 drops.
Wow, that small 3 drop segment certainly looks awkward, wedged in between 16 2-drops and 10 4-drops. Blindspot! Thanks for pointing that out for me.
Adanto Vanguard is on it's way in (as soon as I can get a copy). I thought Plaguecrafter was already in there, but must've slipped my mind!
Relief Captain makes a return! I removed it as part of shifting from +1/+1 towards enchantress, but man that card is super strong! It's kind of an anthem on its own, and 6 power spread across multiple targets for 4CMC is pretty nuts.
I've been a long-time lurker here and I finally finished my Peasant cube and was looking for some feedback. I posted over in the cube list section, so if anyone has any feedback I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd love to start cubing regularly and begin contributing to the discussions I've been reading here for so long!
I was today years old when I found out Concordant Crossroads had an uncommon printing. What are people's thought on it in cube?
I also found that Mirri, Cat Warrior is a card I might need to consider for my cube again.
Edit: I also am now just realizing Grasp of Fate, Blade of Selves (for multiplayer peasant), Shielded by Faith and Arachnogenesis got down graded during the Legendary cube either as cards in the cube or as rewards on MTGO. Are these cards people would use or are people avoiding the oddball online only cards.
I would probably be a bit hesitant to play Crossroads though it is obviously the cheapest global haste enabler (alongside its red counterpart... Mass Hysteria?). Against creature-light decks, the effect might as well be one-sided but against the rest, you are down a card to benefit both players more or less equally. In CUbe, you see more creatures as win conditions and lack the combo potential the card has in some other formats like EDH (where I play it), which makes it worse on average.
The first two are basically multiplayer only cards as you stated. I might well play Shielded by Faith if it had a physical UC printing, and the same is even more true of Arachnogenesis. Indestructibility is pretty strong in limited, and gaining multiple tokens as a part of a Fog is quite nice indeed; especially since those spiders can also kill the occasional creature on said turn.
I've been a long-time lurker here and I finally finished my Peasant cube and was looking for some feedback. I posted over in the cube list section, so if anyone has any feedback I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd love to start cubing regularly and begin contributing to the discussions I've been reading here for so long!
Hey, I've had my peasant cube for over 5 years now. The only difference with yours is that I stick to 360 cards since I rarely draft at more than 4 or 6 individuals. Honestly, your list is pretty stock. You're generally playing the best cards available that are good on their own and some other cards that are better when combined with others. Overall your cube seems solid I'd say. Also, some choices boil down to personal taste too so I can hardly tell you to play one card over another.
For your concern about themes/archetypes, it depends on how much you want them played and how reliably they can be drafted. In my 360 cube I have a few themes like Aristocrats, Blink/ETB effects and tokens/anthems. For them to work, I usually push them pretty hard. Like for Aristocrats I have between 10 to 15 cards that supports this archetype directly(3-4% of the cube) and even more that supports it indirectly. Like all the token producing cards are good for the token archetype but also for the aristocrats archetype.
So I'd say that you need to play-test your cube and tweek it accordingly by adding or removing cards if it ends up too powerful or to weak. No matter what, I usually tend to select cards that are good on their own. I often ask myself the question: If I top-deck this card with an empty board, how lackluster will it be? It helps me weed out the worst cards and make the appropriate cuts.
My question to you is, did the +1/+1 counter theme ever workout. I'd like to implement this theme in my cube but I'm wondering how good it can be.
If anyone else wants to pitch in their two cents, feel free to do so.
Peasant Cube on a Budget - Land
Well, that was easier. Though I can't say I run the Ravnica karoos myself. I assume quite a few of the rest of you do, given they rank so highly on CubeTutor?
(Or are there just that many filthy combo cubes that run Prime Time and Amulet of Vigor?)
I read the article on Peasant Cube lands, and it raised a question for me. Why would somebody run ETB tapped duals over the tri-lands?
My players usually draft two color decks (with occasional mono or quad color decks popping up), so if a given booster has, say, Izzet Guildgate, that only has a 10% chance of matching the deck they are building. If it had Crumbling Necropolis, however, there is now a 30% chance of matching their deck, as it covers Izzet, Dimir, and Rakdos.
Are people deliberately trying to choke color fixing? Or is there another reason?
Karoos are run by the minority of people here, I believe, but not so small a group as to suggest that they are always a bad idea.
They skew your cube towards control while also diluting your cube with gold cards. That said, they are very good control cards and can work if you have a large enough cube to devote to more golds (or a more nuanced approach... someone could argue that you dont need them all similar to the signets).
Why would anyone run etbt duals over tri lands? Because they are more worried about people playing multicolor than they are about people being able to play magic in general.
You want fixing to be good, but not so good that people can just always rely on playing 3-5 color good stuff. If people want to go into three or more colors, you want them to enjoy it, but it needs to be a dedication during the draft where they've valued fixing highly or it needs to a light splash. That said, at 360, I think it's 'correct' to start your fixing land section with the tri lands, followed by the gain lands, and then the Vivid lands. If I went to 450, I'd likely go up another cycle of ten duals alternating between Refuges, bounce lands, or other tap duals, depending on what's available or best fits the color pair.
Why would anyone run etbt duals over tri lands? Because they are more worried about people playing multicolor than they are about people being able to play magic in general.
I wouldnt like those people
You want fixing to be good, but not so good that people can just always rely on playing 3-5 color good stuff. If people want to go into three or more colors, you want them to enjoy it, but it needs to be a dedication during the draft where they've valued fixing highly or it needs to a light splash. That said, at 360, I think it's 'correct' to start your fixing land section with the tri lands, followed by the gain lands, and then the Vivid lands. If I went to 450, I'd likely go up another cycle of ten duals alternating between Refuges, bounce lands, or other tap duals, depending on what's available or best fits the color pair.
Great chat, lads. Love it.
As someone who actually runs the tri-lands and not the karoos in my own cube, I wholeheartedly agree. I was surprised the tri-lands are ranked so lowly on CubeTutor, TBH.
I can see arguments for including the gates, though - especially if you have Circuitous Route in your cube, and/or some of the other gates-matter cards. That's probably the one case where you'd run gates ahead of tri-lands, but I suspect it would make green a little more unbalanced than the rest of the colours (as it would have access to better fixing).
As someone whose primary cube is an EDH multiplayer kitchen table monstrosity, multicolour runs in my blood. So I wouldn't do well with a push in the cube design to force two-color decks, like Leelue.
But similar to Calibretto's thoughts, I figure if someone wants to be stupid enough to draft a five-colour rainbow festival, they can go right ahead - and as cube designer, I should probably at least make the fixing decent enough to want to attempt this in the first place and have fun doing so (as much as it's a bad idea).
I run Karoos, but if there was another cycle of strong lands I would replace them. Gain lands are fine, but they don't really have synergy with anything in my cube. Karoos are more interesting with resetting Vivids/Aether Hub/Gemstone Mine, other marginal synergy with stuff like revolt, and make people think more about hitting lands with Riftwing Cloudskate type effects.
At 360 I'm running 10 tris, 10 karoos, 5 vivids, Ash Barrens and Aether Hub. I'm also currently trying out some rare lands, 5x enemy painlands (they're cheaper than the allied ones since they were reprinted more recently), and 5x allied shadows over innistrand reveal lands (Port Town et al) which are also cheap, $1-2ish each.
I wanted to try out having more duals that come into play untapped because I was finding that running two color aggro decks was a little too tough on the mana. I already cut a lot of the CC 2-drops for that reason, but I'm still running Gifted Aetherborn and it would be nice to be able to add back in a couple more.
The pains and reveals have the nice property of being a bit worse in control and 3+ color decks, since control decks care more about taking damage over a long game, and 3+ color decks are gonna be running more nonbasics and off-color basics, so the reveals will be less consistent.
Still need to test them more, but they seem nice in theory.
I run the 10 tri-lands, 5 Vivids, Ash Barrens, Evolving Wilds, Mirrodin's Core, Myriad Landscape, and Terramorphic Expanse. I don't run any karoos or duals - maybe I should. Like I said, most people go two-color in our drafts, though I had one friend who consistently forced four-color (not a great idea and resulted in a low win rate, but he enjoyed it up until he quit playing Magic for unrelated reasons). Also, I think I should find an Aether Hub.
I don't include City of Brass because, to me, it just doesn't have the same uncommon feeling that other lands at peasant have. Compare City of Brass to something like Mirrodin's Core for example. It really stands out to me and feels like there's a rare pretending to be an uncommon in my list. That might have something to do with me having played Magic for so long and City having always been a rare in every set I've ever personally seen it in. I wasn't around for Arabian Nights, though I started shortly thereafter. My first encounter with City of Brass was in Fifth Edition.
City of Brass has been rare in every printing except when it was uncommon in Arabian Nights, which ironically costs about 36x the price of any of the rare printings. So far, I've refused to play rare printings of peasant-legal cards and have actively hunted down the uncommon versions (not really a big deal for the cards I run) because I don't want gold symbols in my peasant cube. I suppose for City of Brass it wouldn't really matter if I ran a copy from Chronicles or Fifth Edition because they don't show rarity, but the purist in me rebels at the idea. Also, I hate white border.
Most of the lands that can't emulate an original dual don't feel rare to me. Pain lands, City of Brass, and Mana Confluence all feel uncommon to me since you're paying a fairly real cost for your fixing. I know in terms of constructed power level they're rare, but in limited they're 100% uncommon power level. I'm not even confident that City of Brass is that much better than Terramorphic Expanse in limited, and that's a common.
Most of the lands that can't emulate an original dual don't feel rare to me. Pain lands, City of Brass, and Mana Confluence all feel uncommon to me since you're paying a fairly real cost for your fixing. I know in terms of constructed power level they're rare, but in limited they're 100% uncommon power level. I'm not even confident that City of Brass is that much better than Terramorphic Expanse in limited, and that's a common.
I think it's probably safe for WotC to print City of Brass or the pain lands at uncommon from a limited power level standpoint. When and if that ever happens, I'll certainly rejoice, but until then I'm perfectly fine not bending any rules to include them.
FWIW, there was a time in my peasant cube's life when I was more willing to bend those rules. I started by including pain lands because fixing at peasant was so terrible, especially for aggro decks. It sort of escalated from there, though, and my peasant cube slowly became a peasant plus list and now that list has just became a lower power list. I've since rebuilt my peasant list and I've enjoyed keeping to the C/U rules, only 'bending' them for online only uncommons.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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He's also said that the success of more complex/powerful uncommons in Dominaria caused Wizards to reevaluate how they handle power level and complexity at uncommon. Given that Dominaria released about a year before WOTS, that probably meant WOTS could be adjusted reflect the feedback from Dominaria.
I wouldn't be shocked to see Planeswalkers at uncommon, but I also wouldn't be shocked if they did something radical (think along the lines of Sagas) to have "planeswalkers" at lower rarities.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
Did I get the guilds sorted out correctly? I had a couple of pet cards sneak in in the end, but they felt right, so...
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
My cube currently supports the following archetypes:
WU: Blink Control
UB: Saboteurs / Control
BR: Aggro / Aristocrats
RG: Midrange / Tokens
GW: Enchantress / Tokens
WB: Aristocrats
UR: Spells Matter / Control
BG: Graves / Reanimator
RW: Equipment-Aura Double Strike aggro / Go Wide
GU: Flash / Draw-go, though it feels a tad forced
... And I try to support 3 color decks, because I feel it unlocks some very interesting hybrids as well as raising the roof for cross-pollination inclusions.
Relief Captain, Adanto Vanguard, Accorder Paladin, Plaguecrafter, and Read the Bones are some cards I would recommend based on your archetypes.
Adanto Vanguard is on it's way in (as soon as I can get a copy). I thought Plaguecrafter was already in there, but must've slipped my mind!
Relief Captain makes a return! I removed it as part of shifting from +1/+1 towards enchantress, but man that card is super strong! It's kind of an anthem on its own, and 6 power spread across multiple targets for 4CMC is pretty nuts.
Much appreciated.
I've been a long-time lurker here and I finally finished my Peasant cube and was looking for some feedback. I posted over in the cube list section, so if anyone has any feedback I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd love to start cubing regularly and begin contributing to the discussions I've been reading here for so long!
I also found that Mirri, Cat Warrior is a card I might need to consider for my cube again.
Edit: I also am now just realizing Grasp of Fate, Blade of Selves (for multiplayer peasant), Shielded by Faith and Arachnogenesis got down graded during the Legendary cube either as cards in the cube or as rewards on MTGO. Are these cards people would use or are people avoiding the oddball online only cards.
The first two are basically multiplayer only cards as you stated. I might well play Shielded by Faith if it had a physical UC printing, and the same is even more true of Arachnogenesis. Indestructibility is pretty strong in limited, and gaining multiple tokens as a part of a Fog is quite nice indeed; especially since those spiders can also kill the occasional creature on said turn.
Hey, I've had my peasant cube for over 5 years now. The only difference with yours is that I stick to 360 cards since I rarely draft at more than 4 or 6 individuals. Honestly, your list is pretty stock. You're generally playing the best cards available that are good on their own and some other cards that are better when combined with others. Overall your cube seems solid I'd say. Also, some choices boil down to personal taste too so I can hardly tell you to play one card over another.
For your concern about themes/archetypes, it depends on how much you want them played and how reliably they can be drafted. In my 360 cube I have a few themes like Aristocrats, Blink/ETB effects and tokens/anthems. For them to work, I usually push them pretty hard. Like for Aristocrats I have between 10 to 15 cards that supports this archetype directly(3-4% of the cube) and even more that supports it indirectly. Like all the token producing cards are good for the token archetype but also for the aristocrats archetype.
So I'd say that you need to play-test your cube and tweek it accordingly by adding or removing cards if it ends up too powerful or to weak. No matter what, I usually tend to select cards that are good on their own. I often ask myself the question: If I top-deck this card with an empty board, how lackluster will it be? It helps me weed out the worst cards and make the appropriate cuts.
My question to you is, did the +1/+1 counter theme ever workout. I'd like to implement this theme in my cube but I'm wondering how good it can be.
If anyone else wants to pitch in their two cents, feel free to do so.
Well, that was easier. Though I can't say I run the Ravnica karoos myself. I assume quite a few of the rest of you do, given they rank so highly on CubeTutor?
(Or are there just that many filthy combo cubes that run Prime Time and Amulet of Vigor?)
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My players usually draft two color decks (with occasional mono or quad color decks popping up), so if a given booster has, say, Izzet Guildgate, that only has a 10% chance of matching the deck they are building. If it had Crumbling Necropolis, however, there is now a 30% chance of matching their deck, as it covers Izzet, Dimir, and Rakdos.
Are people deliberately trying to choke color fixing? Or is there another reason?
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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They skew your cube towards control while also diluting your cube with gold cards. That said, they are very good control cards and can work if you have a large enough cube to devote to more golds (or a more nuanced approach... someone could argue that you dont need them all similar to the signets).
Why would anyone run etbt duals over tri lands? Because they are more worried about people playing multicolor than they are about people being able to play magic in general.
I wouldnt like those people
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Great chat, lads. Love it.
As someone who actually runs the tri-lands and not the karoos in my own cube, I wholeheartedly agree. I was surprised the tri-lands are ranked so lowly on CubeTutor, TBH.
I can see arguments for including the gates, though - especially if you have Circuitous Route in your cube, and/or some of the other gates-matter cards. That's probably the one case where you'd run gates ahead of tri-lands, but I suspect it would make green a little more unbalanced than the rest of the colours (as it would have access to better fixing).
As someone whose primary cube is an EDH multiplayer kitchen table monstrosity, multicolour runs in my blood. So I wouldn't do well with a push in the cube design to force two-color decks, like Leelue.
But similar to Calibretto's thoughts, I figure if someone wants to be stupid enough to draft a five-colour rainbow festival, they can go right ahead - and as cube designer, I should probably at least make the fixing decent enough to want to attempt this in the first place and have fun doing so (as much as it's a bad idea).
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10 karoos
5 vivids
5 misc
Seems about perfect for 360 (or even 450) if you're vehemently "peasant"
Guildgates and gain-lands are a cop-out
But really, just buy or proxy rare lands
I wanted to try out having more duals that come into play untapped because I was finding that running two color aggro decks was a little too tough on the mana. I already cut a lot of the CC 2-drops for that reason, but I'm still running Gifted Aetherborn and it would be nice to be able to add back in a couple more.
The pains and reveals have the nice property of being a bit worse in control and 3+ color decks, since control decks care more about taking damage over a long game, and 3+ color decks are gonna be running more nonbasics and off-color basics, so the reveals will be less consistent.
Still need to test them more, but they seem nice in theory.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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I don't include City of Brass because, to me, it just doesn't have the same uncommon feeling that other lands at peasant have. Compare City of Brass to something like Mirrodin's Core for example. It really stands out to me and feels like there's a rare pretending to be an uncommon in my list. That might have something to do with me having played Magic for so long and City having always been a rare in every set I've ever personally seen it in. I wasn't around for Arabian Nights, though I started shortly thereafter. My first encounter with City of Brass was in Fifth Edition.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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I think it's probably safe for WotC to print City of Brass or the pain lands at uncommon from a limited power level standpoint. When and if that ever happens, I'll certainly rejoice, but until then I'm perfectly fine not bending any rules to include them.
FWIW, there was a time in my peasant cube's life when I was more willing to bend those rules. I started by including pain lands because fixing at peasant was so terrible, especially for aggro decks. It sort of escalated from there, though, and my peasant cube slowly became a peasant plus list and now that list has just became a lower power list. I've since rebuilt my peasant list and I've enjoyed keeping to the C/U rules, only 'bending' them for online only uncommons.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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