MTG Salvation

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Welcome to the Peasant Cube thread

This thread is for the general discussion of common/uncommon cubes.

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Conversation begins below
But Catching up on opinions from 5 months or so ago is probably the way to go.
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Let me begin

Death by Dragons vs. Volcanic Dragon

I think the pick is almost easy, but I had to start discussion somewhere.

The baseline for peasant cube is extremely different from pauper cube. There are numerous incredibly powerful uncommons in the game that really increase the threshold of how good a card has to be to make it.

That said, there is still a void at high-curve bombs. Death by Dragons is a somewhat lackluster 5/5 flier for 6, but red doesn't have one of those yet. Personally both dragons probably make the cut, but I don't know for certain without having a peasant cube built.

As for other cards that look sweet:
Azure Mage seems solid. It takes a lot of mana, but it's still a 2/1 for 2 in blue.

Phantasmal Dragon is a slam dunk. It's a fairly high-powered format, and there won't be many throw-away cards that you can pitch at it. Meanwhile you get a 5/5 flier for 4.

Vampire Outcasts is probably decent. 4/4 lifelinkers are pretty big, even though times you need to gain life, and times you activate bloodthirst aren't that closely related. You have tons of sweet value cards like Skinrender in this slot, but I'm having another Scourge of Numai sized beater is probably pretty nice for the aggressive decks.

Bloodstorm Berserker is probably pretty good. 3/3s for 2 mana are nice, and there are more awesome 1 drops that you can fill your aggro deck with to trigger bloodthirst. It's also hard to block.

Hunter's Insight draws cards in green. It's dangerous, but the upside is staggering.

Stingwebbing Spider seems pretty sweet. There are some really good fliers at uncommon, and this will tear them up.

I would prefer to go card by card if possible. Your evaluations aren't in question, I just want to really go in depth.

Upon further inspection, I think both dragon cards could get the include. They're both better than the other cards in the slot (mountaincycling cat is pretty damn unimpressive without recursion)

I'm planning on including Volcanic Dragon in my C/U cube, but I don't think I'll be including Death by Dragons. At the peasant level, red is predominantly an aggro color and there's not much support for control cards other than decent sweepers. I think Volcanic Dragon's haste gives it the nod over Death by Dragons.

Quote from calibretto

I'm planning on including Volcanic Dragon in my C/U cube, but I don't think I'll be including Death by Dragons. At the peasant level, red is predominantly an aggro color and there's not much support for control cards other than decent sweepers. I think Volcanic Dragon's haste gives it the nod over Death by Dragons.

death by dragons survives most of the sweepers, tho(slice and dice, kicked breath of darigaaz, etc.). I might just throw both cards in for the hell of it and test which one works better.

Yeah, I'm liking Volcanic Dragon too. I like the haste.


Side note: I think this is an interesting discussion, but without the OP coming back and suggesting new cards to discuss, the card by card method isn't working out too well.

I apologize. my life got very very busy for no reason. now I'm back.

I think we can get all of these out of the way in one fell swoop.

I'll be testing both. I have red poised to be 80%ish aggro, with some defensive/ramp options. which is why I run the "why is this here ???" hearthcage giant.
also, nucklavee loves death by dragons.

what about all of the "Mages"? red has a fairly weak 2 drop slot so crimson mage might make it in. try as I might, I haven't liked kiln fiend in a long time, so maybe it's time.
azure mage could potentially replace a looter. I finally got my serendib efreet so blue aggro keeps getting better. a solid 2/1 for 2 is something I will make room for, at least for testing.
Jade mage looks like a good creature but has to compete with a lot of good two drops and good token producers. It probably won't make it in for me.

Alabaster mage makes all of your creatures ridiculous, and it isn't double white! OMG! I don't know what to take out, but I can definitely test it.

Onyx mage? Oh No. black has real two drops.

Red Mage is good, I'll probably put him in.

Blue one seems good to me too, but I powered down blue just a bit in my cube.

Green seems okay, possibly test it, but I tend to agree that there is probably better stuff.

White one seems ok to me. In my cube, white is heavily geared towards aggro, and while this guy helps win races, I'm not sure if it fits well with white's game-plan. I'll probably test it because it's a cool effect though.

Black one is junk imo. There's much better stuff and the ability is meh anyways.

well, what are the cards replacing?

Alabaster might take lone missionary's spot, since the comparisons are obvious. I like the missionary though. I'm torn.
Knight of cliffhaven hasnt been good for me in a while, and I would rather make my cloudgoat ranger completely unbearable than sinking turns of mana for little payoff.

I don't mind losing merfolk looter for azure mage. instead of making blue worse, I just made blue aggro better. welkin tern won a game... so the archetype has earned a spot.

jade mage... what would you replace? I feel bad for this chick.

Alabaster Mage just isn't as great as Lone Missionary, cause it sucks up mana like no tomorrow and can't be abused with blink. If you still have Knight of Cliffhaven, you can do that swap instead.

Of the cycle, I'd say the Blue and Green ones are best. 3U for instant speed card draw and a repeated token maker for 2G? Anything with repeated card advantage is inherently very powerful, and it's not bad at all that they're stapled onto aggressive bodies. I'll certainly find room for Azure Mage, she's replacing Soratami Cloudskater. I'm not quite so sure about the green one though, but I'll be trying to fit her in as well.

As for the other cards:

Volcanic Dragon: I really like this. A match for pretty much anything else in the sky, and fast. Good critter to ramp into.

Vampire Outcasts: If you can consistently trigger bloodthirst, and your aggro decks should be able to manage that by T3+, this card is awesome. 4 power in black with lifelink.

Phantasmal Dragon: Most flyers at common and uncommon rarity cap out at 4/4. The fact that this is 5/5 is really impressive. Most things in cube that target are already pretty lethal, so popping to those kinds of things isn't bad unless it's a pinger or a tapper.

Bloodstorm Berserker: A 3 power 2 mana evasive beater in red is just what the color needed. If anyone can trigger bloodthirst, it's red. I'd even consider suggesting Blood Ogre, if you run Ballynock Cohort it's really comparable.

I'm pretty sure neither of my cubes is getting anything at all from white with this set. Of the mage cycle, I only really like the red and green ones. I wish the white one gave first strike instead of lifelink. It'd be much more useful. The blue one is a bit pricey for the effect. It might be decent in limited, but I don't think I want it in my cube. I'd rather run a Looter of some sort. And the black one is stains.

I really like Frost Breath. It seems quite awesome for both blue control and blue midrange decks. It either buys you a couple of turns or allows you to get in for the win. It's like a mini Sleep, which has been excellent for us.

guys guys, I want to try to keep the conversation focused on a card or two at a time. Sayin a card is good doesn't tell me what you're replacing and why.

calibretto
would you prefer the 2/1 azure mage it the filtering merfolk looter?

it looks like everyone likes jade mage, but nobody knows where it fits in.

I think that we might be done with this cycle. moving on, I suppose we can mention frost breath. Does this straight replace sleep, or supplement it? Right now, I have it as replace, but I am open for discussion.

I don't run sleep in mine, but I'd definitely rather run frost breath. Much of the time, it'll do the same thing but at 1 cheaper and at instant speed.

@calibretto: Pricy, but repeated card draw at instant speed is just that. Looters can only improve card quality, it can't net card advantage. Azure Mage's effect would be relatively unique and worth testing out. I don't like the red mage's effect because it messes up your curve and most red creatures already have haste.

Quote from calibretto

I really like Frost Breath. It seems quite awesome for both blue control and blue midrange decks. It either buys you a couple of turns or allows you to get in for the win. It's like a mini Sleep, which has been excellent for us.

I remember when Sleep for first previewed and everyone in the world was so upset that it wasn't instant speed. This is instant speed Sleep most of the time for a mana cheaper.

so it looks like frost breath is going to get a shot. cool, cool

treason
unless your cube is massively different from mine, no, most red creatures do not have haste. as of now, 28 of 38 creatures with red mana in their costs are without haste in my cube. let's not forget that virtually no nonred creatures have haste either, so its effect is very very useful with anything else.

next
Phantasmal dragon looks like an auto include for me, but I love blue aggro. Phantasmal bear? I don't know.

I'm thinking of cutting Frantic Search for Frost Breath. I'd rather supplement Sleep than replace it. Frantic Search is one of those cards that really good in rare cubes, but hasn't been that impressive in the crossover to peasant. It's much harder to abuse. I'd be open to a different cut, though, if someone has a suggestion.

I don't like the Phantasmal creatures (other than image, but that's a rare, so not for this conversation). They're too easily dealt with, IMO, and I don't push blue aggro.

I can see testing Azure Mage, but at 3U for one card, I don't know that the card advantage will really matter all that much until the late late game. It's hard to use the cards you're drawing when you're spending all your mana on drawing cards. We ran the similar Jushi Apprentice in our rare cube for a while and even just paying 2U for an extra card each turn was too much.

I think Phantasmal Dragon seems pretty cool, but the drawback might be bigger for my cube than for others. Between any of the new mages, pingers, and other etb abilites, there's a lot that can 2-for-1 the dragon. Still the upside is pretty big, and it's an interesting card and challenging to play. It might make the cut for me on those grounds.

I think the comparison to jushi apprentice is valid. Having 4 mana for a card just doesn't happen very often. The effect is tempting but I suddenly agree.

I wasn't running frantic search in mine to begin with, but I could choose between nevermaker and Quicksilver geyser. Probably nevermaker.

I'll try the dragon... maybe not. it'll be dead too often, sadly

I'd like to see this thread become peasant cube home base instead of just new card convo. There's really not much attention to peasant cubes on these boards.

Quote from calibretto

I'd like to see this thread become peasant cube home base instead of just new card convo. There's really not much attention to peasant cubes on these boards.

I second this.

Definitely agree with the motion, calibretto. Quick note on Sleep though: How has it played for you? You said you wanted to keep it in, in addition to Frost Breath.

I'm curious to hear thoughts on Sleep and Frost Breath too. They're being discussed in the regular limited forum, and I tend to think that they are both rather narrow in both regular draft and cube. They both shine in UG decks where they clear the path to victory, but underperform in UW Fliers or other decks that have more evasion. They have their applications in helping to win a race, but I tend to think that a removal spell is usually just better than either.

I could be wrong though, I obviously haven't played too much with Bad Breath and my experience with Sleep was mostly in m10/11. I'm curious to hear others' views.

I think Sleep is awesome (both IRL and in Magic). In peasant cubes it doesn't about as close to the same thing that Time Walk does in rare cubes as you can get. It gives you two open attack steps that usually just wins you the game. I think Frost Breath will function the same way, and who doesn't want two Time Walks?

I actually don't want this thread to be the home base for all peasant discussion, to be honest. I wanted to evaluate new cards, in depth, here. At least not for now, when we have a dozen new cards to look over. I really like the focused "1 or 2 card at a time" format.

Frost breath - looks better and better for me. U/G is common in my cube. I'm sure my blastoderm will love me for it.

Phantasmal dragon - Definite no. green has 11 ways to kill it in my cube right now. Green. I know It's a dead conversation but that fact just hit me.

I haven't had sleep in here in forever. I should give it another shot, now that my U/x strategies attack more. In the past, it mostly was like a holy day, used only when backpedaling.

So, here is an interesting one. Master thief? It deals with the card that has won more games in my cube than any other: Loxadon warhammer.

When Master Thief was first spoiled, I read it as a Sower of Temptation without flying. Once I read it again when I had slept and the drunk had worn off, I realized it was quite a bit more narrow. Loxadon Warhammer is arguably the most powerful artifact in a C/U cube (that doesn't run Sol Ring). There really aren't that many more artifacts that I'd want to be stealing with this thing (at this rarity level). I even took Manic Vandal out of my cube because he was often just a Gray Ogre because he didn't have a target.

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I don't really understand not wanting to turn this thread into the go to place for all things peasant. Discussing new cards would fall into that shell and would also give us few peasant cubers a place to talk about other topics that come up at this rarity. It really sucks to spend 30 minutes typing up an update post for your peasant cube thread and then get one or two replies total. It'd be nice to have a place to discuss with other peasant cubers.

I suppose I could just make a peasant cube thread, but that seems like a waste when we already have this thread that already has a few followers. Once the new card smell wears off, this thread will likely fall deep into the forums and then get necro'd when INN spoilers start happening. Why not keep peasant cube discussion alive all the time?