Just like with every single card people tend to loosely call 'op' Flood can be perfectly balanced by giving making other things stronger. Your flood won't do much against 3 aggressive creatures on turn 4 with you having like 3 blue sources in play, but it will surely dominate games in formats where people durdle around.
Yeah, that's the thing: "is Flood good?" isn't really the question. The question is "how does your Cube play out"? I think powered pauper is a pretty bad format for Flood personally but that is meaningless if all your players want to durdle instead.
flood is good but not overly good if your cube is ballanced, it will be good vs midrange beetstick decks, ok vs other control decks with just a few creatures, and terrible vs agro with loads of creatures, and terrible vs tokens. but depending on the deck you build it will be better or worse in those match ups. hence why balance and deck building mean everything. but that is just from my experiance playing with and playing against the card. your millage will/may vary depending on your cube and players.
I disagree about bombs in Pauper. You can't actually bring everything up to the level of say, Pestilence.
Bull*****. I'm not talking about making every card as good as Pestilence. I'm talking about giving other strategies the tools to beat Pestilence a significant amount of the time. Pestilence is commonly a terrible card in your hand if your opponent is actually doing something in the first few turns and that balances out the cases in which it dominates games.
Unlike Vintage cube you can't make the other 359 cards also obnoxious bombs. So the entire format is utterly dominated by the half dozen, dozen bomb cards that are available.
Bull*****. I'm guessing Vintage Cube is yet another format you have zero understanding of, so who would be surprised about you babbling crap again. Vintage cube is a format heavily driven by combos and synergies. And some of the highest picks are duals and ramp cards like the signets. Is Azorius Signet a bomb now?
Few things, if any in a Pauper cube will ever rival recurring Crypt Rats with Custodi Squire.
Bull*****. First there are much stronger synergies and combinations you can pull off at pauper, like putting Armadillo Cloak on Crypt Rats. Second this is merely another way to gain an advantage in the late game, which we already have hundreds of. Turn 3 rats into Turn 4 pop into turn 5 Squire will win some games. It will also be irrelevant in some games if your decks are powerful enough.
The cube mine started out as was a powered cube, and it was even more unbalanced than my current Pee-Wee's Playhouse version of it. Nothing could stop an Orzhov deck because those were the two colors with the most bombs.
Bull*****. You'll never understand this before actually playing Magic but the fact that you run garbage in your cube only makes those actually strong individual cards more imbalanced. Which is totally logical by the way
Other strategies don't have tools to beat it. On turn four Pestilence goes down. On turn five you put three into it and everything is gone. Real fun and interactive, it definitely improves the draft to have a card that you always draft and that always wins you the game.
Vintage cube is a bloated dinosaur where the best strategy is to obey the least amount of core game rules as possible. IE, play the game less than your opponent. Eureka -> flying spaghetti monster doesn't count as playing magic.
Oh okay, something that's even better than recurring Crypt Rats with Custodi Squire is another broken Crypt Rats combo. You're proving my point for me.
Are you done with the ad hominem attacks? I don't think bombs are good for Pauper cube, am I not allowed to have this opinion?
You may have your own opinion yes, but you can't say bombs are bad for cube then run bomb cards likerancorin your cube and tell us our cubes are not fun because we run all good cards. you do run a broken card combo in phantom nomadorphantom tiger and any sort of pump enchantment or artifact, they become indestructible and "unfun" in your words.
you do have interesting cards the rest of us don't run, that doesn't make your cube bad just different. I do really like the push for goblin tribal in goblin caves and goblin shrine seem fun but probably to slow, I don't know I've never tried tribal in cube.
try to be more understanding of where we are coming from and be more accepting and grateful for advice, we play and test every card in our cubes and know when things under perform, we know when certain archetypes need help or when others need nerfing, this all comes back to experience and balance. we are building different cubes then you so that makes it harder to give advice, I would say you are an "unpowered" cube which is what you are going for I think.
Please stop being confrontational and we can all get along.
You may have your own opinion yes, but you can't say bombs are bad for cube then run bomb cards likerancorin your cube and tell us our cubes are not fun because we run all good cards. you do run a broken card combo in phantom nomadorphantom tiger and any sort of pump enchantment or artifact, they become indestructible and "unfun" in your words.
you do have interesting cards the rest of us don't run, that doesn't make your cube bad just different. I do really like the push for goblin tribal in goblin caves and goblin shrine seem fun but probably to slow, I don't know I've never tried tribal in cube.
try to be more understanding of where we are coming from and be more accepting and grateful for advice, we play and test every card in our cubes and know when things under perform, we know when certain archetypes need help or when others need nerfing, this all comes back to experience and balance. we are building different cubes then you so that makes it harder to give advice, I would say you are an "unpowered" cube which is what you are going for I think.
Please stop being confrontational and we can all get along.
Rancor and something like Ninja of the Deep Hours are things that you always draft, but don't always win you the game.
So they're sort of bombs I guess? I've never really thought of them as such, they're just good creatures/better bonesplitter.
The Phantom cards I acknowledge could be broken. I think the way they work is interesting though, so I put them in. They haven't gotten out of hand yet.
How many artifacts does it require to for Kuldotha Rebirth to be playable?
And what would you rather have, a value 5/5 like Imperiosaur or an XG like Slime Molding or Ivy Elemental? The original version of my cube had more ramp and more big expensive creatures. I replaced some of the ramp and made a bunch of the remaining creatures into above curve 5/5's. But these X creatures are fairly interesting. It gives more of an incentive to ramp and gives you something to do with the 8 basic lands you have out in the late game.
Deleted a couple of posts I felt were a bit on the flammatory side. You can disagree with each other as much as you want. If you don't keep it civil, further action will be taken.
Apprentice Wizard is worse then signets, dies to every removal spell, and would not be very useful. Kuldotha Rebirth is a cool card but what artifacts would you be ok sacrificing for three 1/1's? I would say it's unplayable unless you build a very heavy artifact cube.
generally under cost creatures will be better then X Creature mana sinks with no protection. would you pay 3 for a 2/2 with no abilities over a borderland ranger or centaur courser? They do scale with your mana but not enough for it to be worth it.
Apprentice Wizard is worse then signets, dies to every removal spell, and would not be very useful. Kuldotha Rebirth is a cool card but what artifacts would you be ok sacrificing for three 1/1's? I would say it's unplayable unless you build a very heavy artifact cube.
generally under cost creatures will be better then X Creature mana sinks with no protection. would you pay 3 for a 2/2 with no abilities over a borderland ranger or centaur courser? They do scale with your mana but not enough for it to be worth it.
If the wizard eats a removal spell, isn't that a good thing? That's a different question if you run sweepers in your cube of course.
Yeah, you're right about the 4 mana 5/5's. A 4 mana 5/5 is already good enough, and the chance of a 9 mana 8/8 or whatever isn't as good as slapping down a 5/5 on turn 3-4 and getting 10 damage in.
Maybe I'll cut something else from green in order to add the XG creatures, idk. They are interesting.
I'd sac a Signet or Bonesplitter for 3 Goblins. My concern isn't losing the artifact, my concern is that you may not have enough artifacts in order for it to be playable. Assuming you're okay with losing the artifact, how many do you need? 3-4?
Whatever that number is, that means it's likely a good idea to gobble up a bunch of Signets for it. And extra mana also helps with Rolling Thunder, Fireball, and Disintegrate. So I think there is a deck where Kuldotha fits, it just potentially requires you to draft a bunch of extra cards with it.
Apprentice Wizard always seems cooler than he is. Two mana ramp is real, but it's also a higher risk proposition. I don't think Wizard soaking up a removal spell is actually all that helpful for a ramp deck, either, since he basically just "turns on" a lot of lower-impact removal spells that might otherwise be dead cards. It's not a bad test, though- I could definitely see myself running the guy.
EDIT: It's not a perfect comparison, but I think the cards he's most comparable to are uncommons like Fyndhorn Elder or Gyre Engineer. It's worse than either of those, but it also has less competition as a Blue ramp card. Would you want to run either of those cards if they were common? I lean no, but I could see the answer being yes. I think the fact that we would probably play Overgrowth if given the choice speaks to where this guy stands.
I don't even think Rebirth was all that strong in Scars of Mirrodin block? There are lots of reasons that this could be true that don't necessarily mean it's bad, but I think it speaks to just how many artifacts it takes (especially low impact artifacts that you don't mind sacrificing) for it to be good. I also don't think that the decision to sacrifice either of those cards for 3 goblins will be correct a large portion of the time. Hordeling Outburst seems clearly better, and I even think getting 2 Goblins and keeping your mana/board presence is a better rate (which you have at least three cards that give you two gobos for 2 with no frills).
I don't know that I'd play Rebirth without at least 6 artifacts. The rate just isn't very good in the presence of so many potential token makers to take on the risk of it sitting worthless in your hand. It feels like a draft-around card with an extremely low ceiling and an extremely low floor outside of a specialized environment which I don't think you have produced or would want to produce.
The GX creatures are kind of interesting, since they're always a little overpriced but fit at any point on the curve. Go ahead and try them, they might actually be a good fit for your Cube's power level and I do actually really like how they play. They're kind of one mana off from being good- Endless One was excellent by just removing the G, but is an example of what the best version of this effect is for us. (BTW, put me down as hoping for Endless One in a future Masters set as a downshift?) But they're a bit slow at any cost for regular Cubes.
Apprentice Wizard always seems cooler than he is. Two mana ramp is real, but it's also a higher risk proposition. I don't think Wizard soaking up a removal spell is actually all that helpful for a ramp deck, either, since he basically just "turns on" a lot of lower-impact removal spells that might otherwise be dead cards. It's not a bad test, though- I could definitely see myself running the guy.
EDIT: It's not a perfect comparison, but I think the cards he's most comparable to are uncommons like Fyndhorn Elder or Gyre Engineer. It's worse than either of those, but it also has less competition as a Blue ramp card. Would you want to run either of those cards if they were common? I lean no, but I could see the answer being yes. I think the fact that we would probably play Overgrowth if given the choice speaks to where this guy stands.
I'm thinking of adding Train of Thought to my cube. I'm going to add all of the common Bestow creatures to my cube since I like the mechanic a lot, and those tend to have pricey bestow costs. The blue monarch card is like 6 mana. Even something like Phantom Monster or non-evoke Mulldrifter are pricey. It seems reasonable.
One would run ramp in green but in my cube blue has some pricey spells too. People draft it in my cube despite them having nothing to ramp into. For a while I had Nature's Lore in my cube because the Portal printing of it has good art and my friends would always draft it even though it did nothing really.
So I don't really see an issue with Apprentice Wizard being underplayed in my cube, especially considering big dumb Simic beaters has been an all-star deck as of late.
I don't even think Rebirth was all that strong in Scars of Mirrodin block? There are lots of reasons that this could be true that don't necessarily mean it's bad, but I think it speaks to just how many artifacts it takes (especially low impact artifacts that you don't mind sacrificing) for it to be good. I also don't think that the decision to sacrifice either of those cards for 3 goblins will be correct a large portion of the time. Hordeling Outburst seems clearly better, and I even think getting 2 Goblins and keeping your mana/board presence is a better rate (which you have at least three cards that give you two gobos for 2 with no frills).
I don't know that I'd play Rebirth without at least 6 artifacts. The rate just isn't very good in the presence of so many potential token makers to take on the risk of it sitting worthless in your hand. It feels like a draft-around card with an extremely low ceiling and an extremely low floor outside of a specialized environment which I don't think you have produced or would want to produce.
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Drafting an entire deck just to get an (arguably) good rate on 3 Goblin tokens seems kind of eh. Not that it would be a bad card when you do draft that deck, but unless you have that specific deck it's a dead card the rest of the time.
I need more spots for bestow creatures anyways, so this will be swapped for one.
The GX creatures are kind of interesting, since they're always a little overpriced but fit at any point on the curve. Go ahead and try them, they might actually be a good fit for your Cube's power level and I do actually really like how they play. They're kind of one mana off from being good- Endless One was excellent by just removing the G, but is an example of what the best version of this effect is for us. (BTW, put me down as hoping for Endless One in a future Masters set as a downshift?) But they're a bit slow at any cost for regular Cubes.
Oh, that would be real cool. That's one thing that Pauper doesn't much of, payoffs for ramp. There is a mono-green LD deck in Pauper that's actually kind of tier 1 but the way it operates is rather degenerate, it will ramp and simultaneously play land destruction spells (many of which ramp you in addition to destroying a land) and then play a turn 3-4 Ulamog's Crusher while you have no way to respond. But there is no payoff for playing fair with ramp like Colossal Dreadmaw.
I'm surprised that there are more 1 mana 2/2's or 2 mana 3/3's in the game (well, in Pauper at least) than there are 5 mana 7/7's or 8 mana 12/12's or whatever. I don't understand why one is rewarded for putting nothing into their creatures, but punished with at/below curve expensive creatures. When I'm putting 7 mana into a creature, can't I get an 8/8, maybe 9/9 with Trample at least?
Would that just make ramp decks too stupid? You make 1/3rd of your deck land, 1/3rd ramp, and 1/3rd undercosted big boys and then your opponent can't do anything?
___________________________
Anyways, what about instead of the Cloudpost/Tron plan, you put Sisay's Ring, Ur Golem's Eye, and Kozilek's Channeler and maybe the aforementioned Apprentice Wizard in your cube and supported big mana that way?
Been busy assembling the Pauper Cube that is going to be given away at the charity event. Just wanted to swing in with an update:
197 Collected! I am officially over half way! I found another 27 cards in a box today. I have 2 more boxes and then going to ask the rest of my playgroup to rummage through what they have.
I am debating on if I want to pull out a ton of cards that are in my Peasant Cube that aren't foiled yet. I could pull them out and replace them in the next month or so with foils. That would bump my numbers significantly. We shall see. I am VERY particular with which foils are in there and the quality of them (specific sets if multiples and NM with NO foil bend) so it could really mess up my c/ube for a while...
Glad the cube is coming along. collecting cards and digging through boxes of old cards is one of my favorite things about building my cube. now I have all the commons that may go into my cube in a box so no more digging through old sets.
Been busy assembling the Pauper Cube that is going to be given away at the charity event. Just wanted to swing in with an update:
197 Collected! I am officially over half way! I found another 27 cards in a box today. I have 2 more boxes and then going to ask the rest of my playgroup to rummage through what they have.
I am debating on if I want to pull out a ton of cards that are in my Peasant Cube that aren't foiled yet. I could pull them out and replace them in the next month or so with foils. That would bump my numbers significantly. We shall see. I am VERY particular with which foils are in there and the quality of them (specific sets if multiples and NM with NO foil bend) so it could really mess up my c/ube for a while...
Have you considered turning in a decklist to an LGS? That should get you most of the way there.
I've started blinging out my cube too.
All of the cheap ones have been foiled, now it's on to the more expensive stuff like the Signets, rancor, unearth, etc.
I even made some trades at my FLGS to get a foil Gush and foil Queer Ranger.
Been busy assembling the Pauper Cube that is going to be given away at the charity event. Just wanted to swing in with an update:
197 Collected! I am officially over half way! I found another 27 cards in a box today. I have 2 more boxes and then going to ask the rest of my playgroup to rummage through what they have.
I am debating on if I want to pull out a ton of cards that are in my Peasant Cube that aren't foiled yet. I could pull them out and replace them in the next month or so with foils. That would bump my numbers significantly. We shall see. I am VERY particular with which foils are in there and the quality of them (specific sets if multiples and NM with NO foil bend) so it could really mess up my c/ube for a while...
you shouldnt be too picky when it comes to foil bend. first, most foils will bend at some point and its easy to flaten them. just put them between some books or plain stuff and put a heavy weight on top. after a week they are flat for a while.
glad the cube gets together, i think its a good community project when everybody donates some cards. usually its too much of a hassle (to me) to search in boxes and i just order them online. It not very effective looking 3hours in boxes for 3€ in card value
Does anyone else play the Bestow Enchantment Aura creatures in their cubes? I'm think about putting all of the Pauper legal ones in my cube since the mechanic is cool and none of them are duds/overpowered.
Nimbus Naiad is always a solid pick in my cube, as is the green one that gives +2/+2 and Reach.
I play some of them already and shied away from the lifegain and deathtouch ones because of Crypt Rats, but now that I no longer have Crypt Rats in my cube those seem fine, and I may as well play all 10 of them.
you shouldnt be too picky when it comes to foil bend. first, most foils will bend at some point and its easy to flaten them. just put them between some books or plain stuff and put a heavy weight on top. after a week they are flat for a while.
Sometimes I have a little luck with flattening foils. My promo Seeker of the Way came almost in a dang circle it was so bad. If flattened out over the course of a few months.
My Treetop Village, Faerie Conclave, and signed Doomed Traveler however (just to name a few) have not gotten any where close to playable. The two lands have been in a smashed box with those pellet thingies for over a year.
you shouldnt be too picky when it comes to foil bend. first, most foils will bend at some point and its easy to flaten them. just put them between some books or plain stuff and put a heavy weight on top. after a week they are flat for a while.
Sometimes I have a little luck with flattening foils. My promo Seeker of the Way came almost in a dang circle it was so bad. If flattened out over the course of a few months.
My Treetop Village, Faerie Conclave, and signed Doomed Traveler however (just to name a few) have not gotten any where close to playable. The two lands have been in a smashed box with those pellet thingies for over a year.
Buuut, that's a different cube.
I actively bend mine opposite the curl first and then put them in tight compressed storage. That seems to help more than just compressing them. Eventually they get flat or flat enough to where they're not marked.
Since it's a cube, marked cards don't really mean that much. If you've memorized which 30% of my cards are doubled sleeved and which aren't and you can tell, then you've earned your right to cheat I guess.
The newer the foil, the thinner and cheaper the card stock is, so the more they curl. ******* Ravnica Allegiance foils were pack fresh curled it seemed.
Older foils don't curl as much but they've been around longer and are more rigid, so when they do curl they seem to curl more obstinately.
Unless it's severe, it can be fixed eventually. As long as it's not one of those cards that has become warped into a concave or convex shape that pops whenever pressure is applied to it. I don't know what can be done about those.
you shouldnt be too picky when it comes to foil bend. first, most foils will bend at some point and its easy to flaten them. just put them between some books or plain stuff and put a heavy weight on top. after a week they are flat for a while.
Sometimes I have a little luck with flattening foils. My promo Seeker of the Way came almost in a dang circle it was so bad. If flattened out over the course of a few months.
My Treetop Village, Faerie Conclave, and signed Doomed Traveler however (just to name a few) have not gotten any where close to playable. The two lands have been in a smashed box with those pellet thingies for over a year.
Buuut, that's a different cube.
I actively bend mine opposite the curl first and then put them in tight compressed storage. That seems to help more than just compressing them. Eventually they get flat or flat enough to where they're not marked.
Since it's a cube, marked cards don't really mean that much. If you've memorized which 30% of my cards are doubled sleeved and which aren't and you can tell, then you've earned your right to cheat I guess.
The newer the foil, the thinner and cheaper the card stock is, so the more they curl. F Ravnica Allegiance foils were pack fresh curled it seemed.
Older foils don't curl as much but they've been around longer and are more rigid, so when they do curl they seem to curl more obstinately.
Unless it's severe, it can be fixed eventually. As long as it's not one of those cards that has become warped into a concave or convex shape that pops whenever pressure is applied to it. I don't know what can be done about those.
I don't agree, but that's because I am stubborn. Same reason I try to only play with NM cards. Does it affect gameplay if there is a blemish? Nah.
It means a lot to me. I would rather have a LP card than a foil bent card. One of my buddy has a ton of foil cards in a couple EDH decks. He doesn't take care of them. Makes me vom every time he pulls them out.
It looks super thematic, fun, the art on it is metal, and it seems fairly powerful. It would function like a blue removal spell except it wouldn't just be another blue Pacifism.
Honestly SM your presence in this forum is completely inappropriate. You obviously know that [insert random unplayable card] is not valid for tuned Pauper Cube. Which, you may have neglected to notice, is the primary thrust of Pauper Discussion.
Also, Tidal Wave's not really that "fun" in practice since its pretty much a generic kill effect as Al already pointed out. But thematically it is cool and it has defender which makes it a possible include in a Wall theme. Interestingly I think this card has functional errata (which they claim to not do, ha!) since in Mirage the token was a Wall. But you need a relaxed, non-competitive environment to get the most out of cards like this one.
1.) You guys are bad at evaluating cards. Everything that doesn't single handedly win you the game is deemed unplayable trash.
Tidal Wave is a perfectly reasonable card.
2.) This notion that this forum is only for powered cubes, and that powered cubes are the only balanced ones holds the community back. I'd argue my cube has a more even power level than anyone's powered Pauper cube.
Whereas my cube has some dud cards in it, powered cubes are basically, Everything that's not Pestilence% is a dud.
So what you consider, a "tuned" Pauper cube is in reality just Pestilence, Crypt Rats, Evincar's Justice, Sprout Swarm, Guardian of the Guildpact, etc. + 340~ cards that are unplayable trash in comparison.
That's a large reason why Adam Styborski's cube sucks. Everything in his cube is fair and vanilla except for the handful of black and white bomb cards and Sprout Swarm.
3.) It's better to have 2 dud cards and 13 decent cards in each pack than it is to have 13 decent cards and 2 obnoxious bomb cards. Why is having cards that you always draft and that always dominate games considered good cube design?
All a dud card does is waste a draft pick. A bomb on the other hand utterly dominates the game. From a balance perspective, an individual dud has far less of an impact on cube balance than an individual bomb does.
1.) You guys are bad at evaluating cards. Everything that doesn't single handedly win you the game is deemed unplayable trash.
You Imply that but that is not the case. Most of the people here think Elite vanguard is a good card. Does it single handedly win you the game? No. Is it a dud because of it? No.
And If you think the people here are bad for evaluating cards why do you ask them? If you already think something is a reasonable card go ahead and test/play it, if you still want feedback then accept the feedback (You don't have to agree but why ask for feedback if nobody can change your mind on a card anyways)
This notion that this forum is only for powered cubes, and that powered cubes are the only balanced ones holds the community back.
Agreed, but nobody here is saying that powered cubes are the only balanced cubes.
Whereas my cube has some dud cards in it, powered cubes are basically, Everything that's not Pestilence% is a dud.
Again you imply that but nobody said that and even if they did that wouldn't be true, you have to draft a specific deck for pestilence to shine. And Pestilence is not "unbeatable" by any means.
So what you consider, a "tuned" Pauper cube is in reality just Pestilence, Crypt Rats, Evincar's Justice, Sprout Swarm, Guardian of the Guildpact, etc. + 340~ cards that are unplayable trash in comparison
No again you imply that that is the case but it is not ( the unplayable trash in comparison part). To most people here a tuned cube is a cube where you can draft multiple strategies that can be on even footing. Yes some cards are more powerful than others but Pestilence [or other cards you mentioned] should always be beatable in a tuned cube even without one of the other cards you mentioned. And for that the other cards are neccesary by either being good cards themselves or synergize well with the rest of your drafted cards.
3.) It's better to have 2 dud cards and 13 decent cards in each pack than it is to have 13 decent cards and 2 obnoxious bomb cards.
The Obnoxius part is your personal view on some of the cards and that is fine, but the more duds you play the more your decent cards become the
cards that you always draft and that always dominate games
thats why balance is neccesary.
multiple decent cards can beat the "bomb" cards. It's harder (however possible) to beat decent cards with duds. But then again having only decent cards or only duds is easier to balance.
All a dud card does is waste a draft pick. A bomb on the other hand utterly dominates the game. From a balance perspective, an individual dud has far less of an impact on cube balance than an individual bomb does.
I'd argue if its just one bomb vs. one dud balance wise both have litte impact. But from a "feels bad" perspective (which is subjective) I'd rather have my opponent draft that bomb than having to waste a pick, since in the games they still have to draw it and might not even win if they play it but a dud will most likely not even see the deck so the only impact it had was "somebody needed to draft this" instead of "somebody wanted to draft this".
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Yeah, that's the thing: "is Flood good?" isn't really the question. The question is "how does your Cube play out"? I think powered pauper is a pretty bad format for Flood personally but that is meaningless if all your players want to durdle instead.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/9o1
Other strategies don't have tools to beat it. On turn four Pestilence goes down. On turn five you put three into it and everything is gone. Real fun and interactive, it definitely improves the draft to have a card that you always draft and that always wins you the game.
Vintage cube is a bloated dinosaur where the best strategy is to obey the least amount of core game rules as possible. IE, play the game less than your opponent. Eureka -> flying spaghetti monster doesn't count as playing magic.
Oh okay, something that's even better than recurring Crypt Rats with Custodi Squire is another broken Crypt Rats combo. You're proving my point for me.
Are you done with the ad hominem attacks? I don't think bombs are good for Pauper cube, am I not allowed to have this opinion?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
you do have interesting cards the rest of us don't run, that doesn't make your cube bad just different. I do really like the push for goblin tribal in goblin caves and goblin shrine seem fun but probably to slow, I don't know I've never tried tribal in cube.
try to be more understanding of where we are coming from and be more accepting and grateful for advice, we play and test every card in our cubes and know when things under perform, we know when certain archetypes need help or when others need nerfing, this all comes back to experience and balance. we are building different cubes then you so that makes it harder to give advice, I would say you are an "unpowered" cube which is what you are going for I think.
Please stop being confrontational and we can all get along.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/9o1
Rancor and something like Ninja of the Deep Hours are things that you always draft, but don't always win you the game.
So they're sort of bombs I guess? I've never really thought of them as such, they're just good creatures/better bonesplitter.
The Phantom cards I acknowledge could be broken. I think the way they work is interesting though, so I put them in. They haven't gotten out of hand yet.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
How many artifacts does it require to for Kuldotha Rebirth to be playable?
And what would you rather have, a value 5/5 like Imperiosaur or an XG like Slime Molding or Ivy Elemental? The original version of my cube had more ramp and more big expensive creatures. I replaced some of the ramp and made a bunch of the remaining creatures into above curve 5/5's. But these X creatures are fairly interesting. It gives more of an incentive to ramp and gives you something to do with the 8 basic lands you have out in the late game.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
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StaffAlso, no dissing Nickelback!
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Kuldotha Rebirth is a cool card but what artifacts would you be ok sacrificing for three 1/1's? I would say it's unplayable unless you build a very heavy artifact cube.
generally under cost creatures will be better then X Creature mana sinks with no protection. would you pay 3 for a 2/2 with no abilities over a borderland ranger or centaur courser? They do scale with your mana but not enough for it to be worth it.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/9o1
If the wizard eats a removal spell, isn't that a good thing? That's a different question if you run sweepers in your cube of course.
Yeah, you're right about the 4 mana 5/5's. A 4 mana 5/5 is already good enough, and the chance of a 9 mana 8/8 or whatever isn't as good as slapping down a 5/5 on turn 3-4 and getting 10 damage in.
Maybe I'll cut something else from green in order to add the XG creatures, idk. They are interesting.
I'd sac a Signet or Bonesplitter for 3 Goblins. My concern isn't losing the artifact, my concern is that you may not have enough artifacts in order for it to be playable. Assuming you're okay with losing the artifact, how many do you need? 3-4?
Whatever that number is, that means it's likely a good idea to gobble up a bunch of Signets for it. And extra mana also helps with Rolling Thunder, Fireball, and Disintegrate. So I think there is a deck where Kuldotha fits, it just potentially requires you to draft a bunch of extra cards with it.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
EDIT: It's not a perfect comparison, but I think the cards he's most comparable to are uncommons like Fyndhorn Elder or Gyre Engineer. It's worse than either of those, but it also has less competition as a Blue ramp card. Would you want to run either of those cards if they were common? I lean no, but I could see the answer being yes. I think the fact that we would probably play Overgrowth if given the choice speaks to where this guy stands.
I don't even think Rebirth was all that strong in Scars of Mirrodin block? There are lots of reasons that this could be true that don't necessarily mean it's bad, but I think it speaks to just how many artifacts it takes (especially low impact artifacts that you don't mind sacrificing) for it to be good. I also don't think that the decision to sacrifice either of those cards for 3 goblins will be correct a large portion of the time. Hordeling Outburst seems clearly better, and I even think getting 2 Goblins and keeping your mana/board presence is a better rate (which you have at least three cards that give you two gobos for 2 with no frills).
I don't know that I'd play Rebirth without at least 6 artifacts. The rate just isn't very good in the presence of so many potential token makers to take on the risk of it sitting worthless in your hand. It feels like a draft-around card with an extremely low ceiling and an extremely low floor outside of a specialized environment which I don't think you have produced or would want to produce.
The GX creatures are kind of interesting, since they're always a little overpriced but fit at any point on the curve. Go ahead and try them, they might actually be a good fit for your Cube's power level and I do actually really like how they play. They're kind of one mana off from being good- Endless One was excellent by just removing the G, but is an example of what the best version of this effect is for us. (BTW, put me down as hoping for Endless One in a future Masters set as a downshift?) But they're a bit slow at any cost for regular Cubes.
Commanders:
Toshiro Umezawa
Rona, Disciple of Gix (Pauper)
I'm thinking of adding Train of Thought to my cube. I'm going to add all of the common Bestow creatures to my cube since I like the mechanic a lot, and those tend to have pricey bestow costs. The blue monarch card is like 6 mana. Even something like Phantom Monster or non-evoke Mulldrifter are pricey. It seems reasonable.
One would run ramp in green but in my cube blue has some pricey spells too. People draft it in my cube despite them having nothing to ramp into. For a while I had Nature's Lore in my cube because the Portal printing of it has good art and my friends would always draft it even though it did nothing really.
So I don't really see an issue with Apprentice Wizard being underplayed in my cube, especially considering big dumb Simic beaters has been an all-star deck as of late.
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Drafting an entire deck just to get an (arguably) good rate on 3 Goblin tokens seems kind of eh. Not that it would be a bad card when you do draft that deck, but unless you have that specific deck it's a dead card the rest of the time.
I need more spots for bestow creatures anyways, so this will be swapped for one.
Oh, that would be real cool. That's one thing that Pauper doesn't much of, payoffs for ramp. There is a mono-green LD deck in Pauper that's actually kind of tier 1 but the way it operates is rather degenerate, it will ramp and simultaneously play land destruction spells (many of which ramp you in addition to destroying a land) and then play a turn 3-4 Ulamog's Crusher while you have no way to respond. But there is no payoff for playing fair with ramp like Colossal Dreadmaw.
I'm surprised that there are more 1 mana 2/2's or 2 mana 3/3's in the game (well, in Pauper at least) than there are 5 mana 7/7's or 8 mana 12/12's or whatever. I don't understand why one is rewarded for putting nothing into their creatures, but punished with at/below curve expensive creatures. When I'm putting 7 mana into a creature, can't I get an 8/8, maybe 9/9 with Trample at least?
Would that just make ramp decks too stupid? You make 1/3rd of your deck land, 1/3rd ramp, and 1/3rd undercosted big boys and then your opponent can't do anything?
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Anyways, what about instead of the Cloudpost/Tron plan, you put Sisay's Ring, Ur Golem's Eye, and Kozilek's Channeler and maybe the aforementioned Apprentice Wizard in your cube and supported big mana that way?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
197 Collected! I am officially over half way! I found another 27 cards in a box today. I have 2 more boxes and then going to ask the rest of my playgroup to rummage through what they have.
I am debating on if I want to pull out a ton of cards that are in my Peasant Cube that aren't foiled yet. I could pull them out and replace them in the next month or so with foils. That would bump my numbers significantly. We shall see. I am VERY particular with which foils are in there and the quality of them (specific sets if multiples and NM with NO foil bend) so it could really mess up my c/ube for a while...
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/9o1
Have you considered turning in a decklist to an LGS? That should get you most of the way there.
I've started blinging out my cube too.
All of the cheap ones have been foiled, now it's on to the more expensive stuff like the Signets, rancor, unearth, etc.
I even made some trades at my FLGS to get a foil Gush and foil Queer Ranger.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
you shouldnt be too picky when it comes to foil bend. first, most foils will bend at some point and its easy to flaten them. just put them between some books or plain stuff and put a heavy weight on top. after a week they are flat for a while.
glad the cube gets together, i think its a good community project when everybody donates some cards. usually its too much of a hassle (to me) to search in boxes and i just order them online. It not very effective looking 3hours in boxes for 3€ in card value
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Nimbus Naiad is always a solid pick in my cube, as is the green one that gives +2/+2 and Reach.
I play some of them already and shied away from the lifegain and deathtouch ones because of Crypt Rats, but now that I no longer have Crypt Rats in my cube those seem fine, and I may as well play all 10 of them.
They would also have the benefit of encouraging more Splice Onto Arcane, since Wear Away, Terashi's Grasp, and Rending Vines are in my cube.
Bestow is generally pricey, so they incentivize ramp a little more too.
I guess with the increase in pump enchantments I'll have to reevaluate Phantom Nomad and Phantom Tiger.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Sometimes I have a little luck with flattening foils. My promo Seeker of the Way came almost in a dang circle it was so bad. If flattened out over the course of a few months.
My Treetop Village, Faerie Conclave, and signed Doomed Traveler however (just to name a few) have not gotten any where close to playable. The two lands have been in a smashed box with those pellet thingies for over a year.
Buuut, that's a different cube.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647
I actively bend mine opposite the curl first and then put them in tight compressed storage. That seems to help more than just compressing them. Eventually they get flat or flat enough to where they're not marked.
Since it's a cube, marked cards don't really mean that much. If you've memorized which 30% of my cards are doubled sleeved and which aren't and you can tell, then you've earned your right to cheat I guess.
The newer the foil, the thinner and cheaper the card stock is, so the more they curl. ******* Ravnica Allegiance foils were pack fresh curled it seemed.
Older foils don't curl as much but they've been around longer and are more rigid, so when they do curl they seem to curl more obstinately.
Unless it's severe, it can be fixed eventually. As long as it's not one of those cards that has become warped into a concave or convex shape that pops whenever pressure is applied to it. I don't know what can be done about those.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Or those, "I don't care, it's staying in" cards?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I don't agree, but that's because I am stubborn. Same reason I try to only play with NM cards. Does it affect gameplay if there is a blemish? Nah.
It means a lot to me. I would rather have a LP card than a foil bent card. One of my buddy has a ton of foil cards in a couple EDH decks. He doesn't take care of them. Makes me vom every time he pulls them out.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647
It looks super thematic, fun, the art on it is metal, and it seems fairly powerful. It would function like a blue removal spell except it wouldn't just be another blue Pacifism.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Also, Tidal Wave's not really that "fun" in practice since its pretty much a generic kill effect as Al already pointed out. But thematically it is cool and it has defender which makes it a possible include in a Wall theme. Interestingly I think this card has functional errata (which they claim to not do, ha!) since in Mirage the token was a Wall. But you need a relaxed, non-competitive environment to get the most out of cards like this one.
Tidal Wave is a perfectly reasonable card.
2.) This notion that this forum is only for powered cubes, and that powered cubes are the only balanced ones holds the community back. I'd argue my cube has a more even power level than anyone's powered Pauper cube.
Whereas my cube has some dud cards in it, powered cubes are basically, Everything that's not Pestilence% is a dud.
So what you consider, a "tuned" Pauper cube is in reality just Pestilence, Crypt Rats, Evincar's Justice, Sprout Swarm, Guardian of the Guildpact, etc. + 340~ cards that are unplayable trash in comparison.
That's a large reason why Adam Styborski's cube sucks. Everything in his cube is fair and vanilla except for the handful of black and white bomb cards and Sprout Swarm.
3.) It's better to have 2 dud cards and 13 decent cards in each pack than it is to have 13 decent cards and 2 obnoxious bomb cards. Why is having cards that you always draft and that always dominate games considered good cube design?
All a dud card does is waste a draft pick. A bomb on the other hand utterly dominates the game. From a balance perspective, an individual dud has far less of an impact on cube balance than an individual bomb does.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
You Imply that but that is not the case. Most of the people here think Elite vanguard is a good card. Does it single handedly win you the game? No. Is it a dud because of it? No.
And If you think the people here are bad for evaluating cards why do you ask them? If you already think something is a reasonable card go ahead and test/play it, if you still want feedback then accept the feedback (You don't have to agree but why ask for feedback if nobody can change your mind on a card anyways)
Agreed, but nobody here is saying that powered cubes are the only balanced cubes.
Again you imply that but nobody said that and even if they did that wouldn't be true, you have to draft a specific deck for pestilence to shine. And Pestilence is not "unbeatable" by any means.
No again you imply that that is the case but it is not ( the unplayable trash in comparison part). To most people here a tuned cube is a cube where you can draft multiple strategies that can be on even footing. Yes some cards are more powerful than others but Pestilence [or other cards you mentioned] should always be beatable in a tuned cube even without one of the other cards you mentioned. And for that the other cards are neccesary by either being good cards themselves or synergize well with the rest of your drafted cards.
The Obnoxius part is your personal view on some of the cards and that is fine, but the more duds you play the more your decent cards become the thats why balance is neccesary.
multiple decent cards can beat the "bomb" cards. It's harder (however possible) to beat decent cards with duds. But then again having only decent cards or only duds is easier to balance.
I'd argue if its just one bomb vs. one dud balance wise both have litte impact. But from a "feels bad" perspective (which is subjective) I'd rather have my opponent draft that bomb than having to waste a pick, since in the games they still have to draw it and might not even win if they play it but a dud will most likely not even see the deck so the only impact it had was "somebody needed to draft this" instead of "somebody wanted to draft this".