I'm going to quote myself because I'm that cool (re: what separates common cubes from rare/"powered" ones) with a few changes.
Commons cubes can also be useful for beginning cube designers in that it’s a very self-disciplining cube format. In cubes of any size and rarity, it’s a good idea to only have a few high-cost finishers and mass-removal in each color; the options available at the commons level make it so that having too many of either is difficult to achieve.
This isn’t to say that those who create common cubes are undisciplined, nor that common cubes are easily built – it’s just that the natural constraints of the format itself help beginning designers avoid frequent cube pitfalls. After all, it’s hard to include too many 6+ casting cost creatures when the common ones are awful (granted, it can still can and does happen.)
Creatures in commons cubes are generally small: few non-green creatures get above the 4 power mark and non-blue evasive creatures typically don’t get above 2 power (with blue fliers sometimes having 3 power) so evasive creatures are also generally small.
This isn’t to say that a commons cube will end up in games that replicate your normal draft environment (or at least, it shouldn't) because removal is much better and more plentiful and creatures are much more efficient (In fact, Prodigal Pyromancer isn’t a first pick or even good enough to be in a common cube, as I discussed on my article on context at ManaNation.)
There are fewer “big and splashy effects” at the common level although some do exist, like Pestilence, Opaline Bracers and Capsize are the big splashy effects as opposed to Upheaval, Wildfire and Elspeth, Knight Errant. Big splashy effects are definitely there (those mentioned in the "tier 1" post) but much like what should happen in a "regular" cube, they don't define the format, they just happen to feature them.
Commons cubes do use a good amount of "boring” (a claim that I obviously don’t agree with) workhorse cards like Tumble Magnet and Wretched Anurid, (but so do "regular cubes" through cards like Isamaru.) There are a lot more creatures in common cubes, so it can be easier to have aggressive strategies, but supporting them is still important.
On LD: We did a few drafts on Monday, and one of the decks ended up mono R aggro with Aftershock, Stone Rain and Molten Rain. Deck was bonkers, even though red was not even underdrafted.
Tier one cards
Rolling Thunder
Guardian of the Guildpact
Faith's Fetters
Rancor
Sprout Swarm
Disturbed Burial
Capsize
Vulshok Morningstar
Bonesplitter
Blastoderm
Mulldrifter
I may have missed a few, but importantly after a lot of drafting recently, Pestilence hasn't been putting up as many great results as it used to. It's still an insane card but the life loss has really cost it it's mantle as a great anti-aggro card since the aggro in the cube has got faster.
Haha, sure. I do it because no one else does, and it's hella fun. So, what are you going to review?
Gotta go for the night, but I'll put up my top picks later.
I was thinking I'd try Besieged and then, schedule permitting, switch on and off with you or continue depending on your availability and/or willingness to do them/delegate.
I actually had one typed up for SoM, but you put yours up before I ran it by you. Courtesy and all.
On the first pick, if I was ever given all the best cards, I would pick Pestilence. In terms of power level, I think it's tied with Capsize. But I don't really like playing with Capsize (same reason I don't run LDs), so Pestilence is edged out. That's not saying that I wouldn't first pick Capsize if I was given a pack, but if it was in the same pack as Pestilence, I'd slam it down and let my partner play blue.
@ Usman
I think I've made some comments about aggro in Pauper. I don't know whether I'm lucky or it's because of Pauper's basic set up, but I've never really paid attention to giving support to aggro (besides blue aggro), and it does well enough by itself. But it is an interesting topic. What's everyone else's opinions on aggro in Pauper? Is it fine by itself, or does it need help?
Second question: how many people would look forward to participating in a Pauper Cube Rotisserie Draft (using my cube)?
It depends on how you make your cube. If you're not one to rate Stone Rain and such highly then you might have to try a little, it's not difficult though.
I'd absolutely love to. I might not be available to though, I'm leaving for a month in about a week.
I have a pauper cube question for the community - has anyone tested or included cards that offer bonuses or possibilities for building tribally-themed decks? Cards I've noticed that might be interesting include: Veteran Swordsmith, Goblin Taskmaster, Shepherd of Rot, Snarling Undorak. These cards seem borderline, but I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on it. I think the goblins might be the best tribe in commons, especially with Goblin Grenade.
I'd definitely be in for a pauper cube rotisserie draft!
Tribal support cards are excellent in tribal and just jank in normal. Tribal support cards need to be at least borderline playable by themselves before they can be considered; for example, I would be okay with the Armorsmith (although I wouldn't be that happy), since a WW to cast 2/3 itself is already maindeck worthy. If you want to make tribal viable in the cube, you need to actually design your cube for tribal.
Personally, I don't like Pauper tribal. Most of the lords that makes these decks cool are in uncommons and rares. Mostly, you'll just have a bunch of goblins and one or two cards that take advantage of them, which makes the whole experience unexciting. Pauper just isn't an environment in which tribal shines.
But, of course, I may be wrong. These are just my initial thoughts. Sparksmith would be insane; perhaps it could very well work.
In order for the tribal cards to be decent in a non-tribal cube, you'd still have to throw a decent amount of support behind them, so someone could draft the given "archetype." Your power level would go way down, though, and if nobody decided to move in, you'd have a bunch of 12-15th picks floating around. Insane in tribal cubes, sub-par everywhere else.
Hey guys. I just wanted to say "thanks" for all of the great info in this thread. I finished reading it from start-to-finish and it was very interesting. I built my Cube six months ago and I'm working on perfecting it now. I just ordered a redonkulous amount of foil commons to pimp it out. I posted a list on here but I won't feel super-confident until I get to add more cards to the Cube. We do mostly 2-man drafts (many variations including some homemade ones) and it's been a blast.
I'll post more later on (including a link to my Cube when it's improved) but for now I just wanted to say "howdy." I have done an insane amount of research on the Commons Cube so I feel like I'm well versed on it. Card availability has limited me before but tonight I ordered pretty much every Common I ever wanted. I can't wait to tweak & add many foils to my Cube later this week.
Finally, Rolling Thunder is the best card in my Cube IMO
If you're looking for more good information pertaining to Pauper Cube (believe me, this is the tip of an awesome iceberg), then check out my signature for some Pauper Cube resources, especially the Cube Evaluation thread. It'll be awesome to have another person joining in the discussion. Nothing beats perfecting your cube than systematically analysing all the cards (oh, and playing. Can't forget playing. xD).
On Tribal - I tried two tribes, and I still think they're the best two tribes to support: Rebels and Slivers. Slivers have by far the most amazing lords and ability givers of any tribe at common. Muscle and Sinew Slivers are just a start.
Rebels, though, are different. There are maybe four rebel searchers that you might want to cube with at common, but if you put in enough non-searcher rebels, a deck can easily get away with four rebels, and two being fetchers. They might not be a neverending source of card advantage, but they provide extra dudes on top of already quite okay bodies (in some cases).
I wouldn't consider either in anything much more than 360.
Actually, back when I had my Extended cube (this was when I was just getting into cubing), I tried to add all the aggressively costed Allies, like Oran-Rief Survivalist and such. They're interesting in that, like Slivers, if you're not dedicated to them, you'll never take them, so if you're the Ally drafter at the table, you get a really funny deck. But I cut it a while back because too often no one actually went for the Ally deck, so they just became unplayables that people picked P13+. And actually, I think that that's the biggest issue with attempting small injections of tribal into cube: there are always better alternatives that aren't as restrictive, and tribal cards are never that great in isolation (as in, seeing a single Sliver or Ally isn't an incentive to go for it), so people rarely draft them. Unless a cube is dedicated to tribal - that is, if not drafting tribal is a bad idea - then I can't see support Allies or even Slivers (which are my favourite race).
Although tribal is clearly not strongest in Pauper cubes (might be better in Peasent though), I decided to give tribal a try in one color and see how it goes. I picked goblins since I felt red needed another interesting "identity" in the cube and since there were some interesting goblin tribal cards at common, including Goblin Matron, Goblin Taskmaster, Sparksmith, Caterwauling Boggart and Goblin Grenade. 17 out of 38 out my creature spells are goblins or spells that make goblin tokens. I'd like to change that to 19 out of 38, so if anyone has any ideas please click the link to my cube below and give me some feedback. Gracias!
I'll report back after I've done a few drafts. Rubin8tor - thanks for the ideas too. I may try rebels and/or slivers at some point.
While we are on the subject of giving red an identity (and I use some goblin tribal as well), I was wondering how you guys make your red not suck compared to every other color. Outside of burn, their options are sooooo much worse. Do any of you run an LD package, my group is going to try it out.
P.S. Slivers didn't work for me, and we have a 400 or so card cube. Just hard to get enough.
"Do Not Disturb. Why isn't it Don't Disturb? It's time to embrace the contraction. Do Not Disturb is too misleading. Do? Yes I can disturb this guy. Not? *****!"
I don't run LD because my playgroup doesn't think it's fun, but that's just a matter of opinions.
I don't see red sucking at all. If anything, white or green are the weaker colors in the cube. Black has got ridiculous aggro creatures and plentiful removal. Blue has got the counterspells and efficient flyers. Red has got just, an insane amount of burn and aggro creatures.
White has got its aggro creatures and removal, yeah, and sgreen has got some of the more efficient creatures, but they're the two least interactive colors. Red is by no means the weakest; I'd rank it second or third best.
Hi, I just thought I'd drop by and say that this thread was very helpful for my own cube project. I just read through the whole thing, and this thread definitely deserves a bump.
Some singleton card discussion from here and here.
Thornweald Faeries - if you want a blue pinger, there are less color-intensive options out there. Being able to chump-kill X/2 flyers doesn't outweight it's terrible cost.
Ghastly Demise - has too many hoops to jump through when any of the 3CMC removal would be better. By the time you can use this to kill what you need to kill, the game will probably have progressed far enough that Dark Banishing isn't much worse.
Dawn Charm - has flexibility, but none of the modes just does enough for me.
Dawn Charm: Have since changed my mind on this one. Really doesn't reliably do enough. best case scenraio is countering a Tendrils of Corruption game-ending effect, or Fogging then swinging for the win, etc. Reality? Probably dead in your hand.
Ghastly Demise: I brought this up too, so I'll explain it. If you're in black, you should (obviously) be trying to grab as much removal as you can, and this works really well in conjunction with other kill cards you have. What makes it good is that you can kill strong creatures and then cast your own as well. It's a 1 cmc kill spell that is still relevant (and in fact moreso) as the game continues. Compare it to Disfigure. It's slower to get to this point, but once it gets there it is still very relevant to the game state as a top-deck on turn 6 and 7. Really solid card.
Thornwind Faeries: Not a bad card, but the cost is very annoying. The flying is mostly irrelevant and it's not the sort of card that I would be going heavy blue for.
Also... I can't see Zuran Spellcaster mentioned anywhere. Am I missing something about why a Prodigal Sorcerer functional reprint isn't worth cubing?
I have one Prodigal Sorcerer for the kicks. I don't really need another pinger in blue.
My problem with Ghastly Demise is that it just doesn't work in the early game. It's late-game removal, and I don't think cube has room for a card with such a restriction on it.
I've never found UR Control/Midrange to be all that weak, if you build it right. I don't see how a bad deck is a sign that blue pingers are necessary. Maybe... red pingers? They do have the better pings.
Blight Sickle is a bit mana-intensive. Compare to Vulshok Morningstar, which granted is one of the best equipment. Could you elaborate on why it's so good?
Indeed. I want all my green crashers to at least have some type of evasion. Or, you know, Deathtouch. And there are actually quite a lot, so go figure.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Tier one cards
Rolling Thunder
Guardian of the Guildpact
Faith's Fetters
Rancor
Sprout Swarm
Disturbed Burial
Capsize
Vulshok Morningstar
Bonesplitter
Blastoderm
Mulldrifter
Tier 1.1
Pestilence
Serrated Arrows
Staggershock
Arc Lightning
Fireball
Oblivion Ring
Exclude
Grim Harvest
I may have missed a few, but importantly after a lot of drafting recently, Pestilence hasn't been putting up as many great results as it used to. It's still an insane card but the life loss has really cost it it's mantle as a great anti-aggro card since the aggro in the cube has got faster.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Haha, sure. I do it because no one else does, and it's hella fun. So, what are you going to review?
Gotta go for the night, but I'll put up my top picks later.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I was thinking I'd try Besieged and then, schedule permitting, switch on and off with you or continue depending on your availability and/or willingness to do them/delegate.
I actually had one typed up for SoM, but you put yours up before I ran it by you. Courtesy and all.
Pauper Cube
I cube, I play EDH, and I can't afford Legacy. The other formats can suck it.
On the first pick, if I was ever given all the best cards, I would pick Pestilence. In terms of power level, I think it's tied with Capsize. But I don't really like playing with Capsize (same reason I don't run LDs), so Pestilence is edged out. That's not saying that I wouldn't first pick Capsize if I was given a pack, but if it was in the same pack as Pestilence, I'd slam it down and let my partner play blue.
@ Usman
I think I've made some comments about aggro in Pauper. I don't know whether I'm lucky or it's because of Pauper's basic set up, but I've never really paid attention to giving support to aggro (besides blue aggro), and it does well enough by itself. But it is an interesting topic. What's everyone else's opinions on aggro in Pauper? Is it fine by itself, or does it need help?
Second question: how many people would look forward to participating in a Pauper Cube Rotisserie Draft (using my cube)?
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I'd love to rotisserie draft pauper.
I'd absolutely love to. I might not be available to though, I'm leaving for a month in about a week.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I'd definitely be in for a pauper cube rotisserie draft!
Sig courtesy of Disappointing Signet Inc.
My Cubes:
Goblin Pile Shuffler's 360 Card Pauper Cube - updated 1/4/2014
Goblin Pile Shuffler's 270 Card One-Drop Cube - updated 1/4/2014
Personally, I don't like Pauper tribal. Most of the lords that makes these decks cool are in uncommons and rares. Mostly, you'll just have a bunch of goblins and one or two cards that take advantage of them, which makes the whole experience unexciting. Pauper just isn't an environment in which tribal shines.
But, of course, I may be wrong. These are just my initial thoughts. Sparksmith would be insane; perhaps it could very well work.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I'll post more later on (including a link to my Cube when it's improved) but for now I just wanted to say "howdy." I have done an insane amount of research on the Commons Cube so I feel like I'm well versed on it. Card availability has limited me before but tonight I ordered pretty much every Common I ever wanted. I can't wait to tweak & add many foils to my Cube later this week.
Finally, Rolling Thunder is the best card in my Cube IMO
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
If you're looking for more good information pertaining to Pauper Cube (believe me, this is the tip of an awesome iceberg), then check out my signature for some Pauper Cube resources, especially the Cube Evaluation thread. It'll be awesome to have another person joining in the discussion. Nothing beats perfecting your cube than systematically analysing all the cards (oh, and playing. Can't forget playing. xD).
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Rebels, though, are different. There are maybe four rebel searchers that you might want to cube with at common, but if you put in enough non-searcher rebels, a deck can easily get away with four rebels, and two being fetchers. They might not be a neverending source of card advantage, but they provide extra dudes on top of already quite okay bodies (in some cases).
I wouldn't consider either in anything much more than 360.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Although tribal is clearly not strongest in Pauper cubes (might be better in Peasent though), I decided to give tribal a try in one color and see how it goes. I picked goblins since I felt red needed another interesting "identity" in the cube and since there were some interesting goblin tribal cards at common, including Goblin Matron, Goblin Taskmaster, Sparksmith, Caterwauling Boggart and Goblin Grenade. 17 out of 38 out my creature spells are goblins or spells that make goblin tokens. I'd like to change that to 19 out of 38, so if anyone has any ideas please click the link to my cube below and give me some feedback. Gracias!
I'll report back after I've done a few drafts. Rubin8tor - thanks for the ideas too. I may try rebels and/or slivers at some point.
Sig courtesy of Disappointing Signet Inc.
My Cubes:
Goblin Pile Shuffler's 360 Card Pauper Cube - updated 1/4/2014
Goblin Pile Shuffler's 270 Card One-Drop Cube - updated 1/4/2014
P.S. Slivers didn't work for me, and we have a 400 or so card cube. Just hard to get enough.
I don't see red sucking at all. If anything, white or green are the weaker colors in the cube. Black has got ridiculous aggro creatures and plentiful removal. Blue has got the counterspells and efficient flyers. Red has got just, an insane amount of burn and aggro creatures.
White has got its aggro creatures and removal, yeah, and sgreen has got some of the more efficient creatures, but they're the two least interactive colors. Red is by no means the weakest; I'd rank it second or third best.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
Thornweald Faeries - if you want a blue pinger, there are less color-intensive options out there. Being able to chump-kill X/2 flyers doesn't outweight it's terrible cost.
Ghastly Demise - has too many hoops to jump through when any of the 3CMC removal would be better. By the time you can use this to kill what you need to kill, the game will probably have progressed far enough that Dark Banishing isn't much worse.
Dawn Charm - has flexibility, but none of the modes just does enough for me.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Dawn Charm: Have since changed my mind on this one. Really doesn't reliably do enough. best case scenraio is countering a Tendrils of Corruption game-ending effect, or Fogging then swinging for the win, etc. Reality? Probably dead in your hand.
Ghastly Demise: I brought this up too, so I'll explain it. If you're in black, you should (obviously) be trying to grab as much removal as you can, and this works really well in conjunction with other kill cards you have. What makes it good is that you can kill strong creatures and then cast your own as well. It's a 1 cmc kill spell that is still relevant (and in fact moreso) as the game continues. Compare it to Disfigure. It's slower to get to this point, but once it gets there it is still very relevant to the game state as a top-deck on turn 6 and 7. Really solid card.
Thornwind Faeries: Not a bad card, but the cost is very annoying. The flying is mostly irrelevant and it's not the sort of card that I would be going heavy blue for.
Also... I can't see Zuran Spellcaster mentioned anywhere. Am I missing something about why a Prodigal Sorcerer functional reprint isn't worth cubing?
=Cameron=
G Omnath, Locus of Mana G
=CUBE=
Pauper {360} 2013 REVIVAL UPDATE
beats me if I had one or the 1UU one I would run it. pingers rule pauper.
My problem with Ghastly Demise is that it just doesn't work in the early game. It's late-game removal, and I don't think cube has room for a card with such a restriction on it.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Blight Sickle is a bit mana-intensive. Compare to Vulshok Morningstar, which granted is one of the best equipment. Could you elaborate on why it's so good?
Yes, Tumble Magnet is indeed teh smex.
Indeed. I want all my green crashers to at least have some type of evasion. Or, you know, Deathtouch.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2