My instinct is that card is certainly not flashy enough to be a rare, but I'd find it highly unlikely they'd put a card that pushed into the uncommon slot either. I reckon a 4/4 first striker would be printable, and would likely be a strong card in current limited environments. There are a handful of peasant creatures with native first strike and power 4 or greater, but they usually have a drawback, cost more, or have low toughness.
The combo of first strike and BOTH stats being high makes it harder to take down in combat than you might initially think. Even without menace, getting enough creatures to block it, AND have enough of them survive the first strike damage to be able to take out 5 toughness seems a tough ask. That said, I think the above card would certainly be playable in peasant cube without being ridiculous, but I don't think it is printable in a modern set at uncommon. And I suppose that is what we are really asking for in this thread
Here is an attempt at a 6 drop I've had rattling around in my head.
Devil Master
Creature - Human Wizard
Cost : 4RR
At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 red Devil creature token. It has "When this creature dies, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player".
Sacrifice a creature: ~THIS~ gets +1/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn.
4/4
Flavor might need some work, but I think it's mechanically interesting. Decent at stabilising the turn it comes down, especially if you have something else to sac to immediately to turn on first strike. The devils it creates play nicely with the second ability, letting you ping a larger creature after blocks and taking the creature out with first strike damage. And if you stabilise, it comes with some decent inevitability.
A couple of other ideas that have been rattling around for some green engine cards.
Elder Glen Teachings
Sorcery
Cost: G
Kicker 3
Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Shuffle Elder Glen Teachings into your library.
If you paid the kicker cost, search your library for a basic land and a creature instead.
Elder Glen Musings
Sorcery
Cost: G
Multikicker 2
Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Shuffle Elder Glen Musings into your library.
For each time the kicker cost was paid, you may search for an additional basic land.
I suppose the Teachings kind of replaces the land when it gets shuffled back in, so your deck land count kind of stays the same if you only ever cast it for a single mana, but then you can turn it into an engine in the late game, and it can help enable 5 colour shenanigans a little easier.
Not sure if the templating for Musings is perfect, but if you've got the time and draw it a few times, you can end up stripping all the land out of your deck.
Devil Master
Creature - Human Wizard
Cost : 4RR
At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 red Devil creature token. It has "When this creature dies, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player".
Sacrifice a creature: ~THIS~ gets +1/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn.
4/4
Peddler of Souls
Creature - Human Wizard 4RR
Prowess.
Sacrifice a non-devil creature: Peddler of Souls gets +3/+0 and first strike until end of turn.
3/4
Peddler of Souls
Creature - Human Wizard 4RR
Prowess.
Sacrifice a non-devil creature: Peddler of Souls gets +3/+0 and first strike until end of turn.
3/4
I think this has too much variability for my taste. Mainly because of the low floor; if you have an empty board by the time you play this (from chumping or whatever), you get a 3/4 for 6 mana, and the main way it trades up is if you have creatures to follow it with. With some creatures on the board, especially tokens, I can see it being nasty though. With a handful of creatures on the board, they are probably forced to block, and there is little chance of taking it down in combat. Is the non-devil clause just counter to my card? I'd say make it any creature; if it's from a flavor perspective, there are lots of other creature types that aren't likely to have souls (demons, zombies etc).
I'm sure there are better ways to do this idea. Your idea seemed a little too much like a rare, so I lowered the floor while trying to fix the flavor and making it a little like Bedlam Reveler. The variability also fits kind of fits the fickleness of the devils this guy is pacting with.
Non-devil is purely flavor, it doesn't make sense for someone who has a pact with devils to be able to sac those devils to gain power. Clearly the way to feed that hunger for power is to hand souls to the devils, who then give the wizard temporary power. The necessary sac ritual might well include dead bodies or demons or whatever. In the right set this could also just read "sac a human" or something similar.
Fast and Menacing Dude3RR
Creature - Race Class
First Strike, Menace
4/5
Yeah, it might be too strong. I was thinking about what a red finisher at uncommon would look like, and how it could be made to have some inevitability. So I thought about non-flying evasion and thought menace+first strike sounded cool. And then I gave it a high toughness to be resilient against burn damage. Not sure if I suceeded on many points. Must mull this over more. Interesting though, Kari Zev, Skyship Raider was the first creature printed with both menace and first strike.
Devil Master
Creature - Human Wizard
Cost : 4RR
At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 red Devil creature token. It has "When this creature dies, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player".
Sacrifice a creature: ~THIS~ gets +1/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn.
4/4
Yeah I think I agree with Spider that this seems rare. Free token creation every turn, have we seen that at un/common?
[[searches gatherer]] ...
yes: Commander's Authority.
But that's it. Seems unlikely that they would put that ability with upside on a strong body. I could perhaps see it function power-wise if the tokens were created of a Young Pyromancer-trigger. But that would add even more text and complexity, and thus make it "more rare". A mana cost, like 2R to create a token, isn't purely downside either, since you can then machine-gun down things. Neat design though, but yeah, I think there is both a tad too much going on, and a tad too much power, for this not to be rare.
Elder Glen Teachings
Sorcery
Cost: G
Kicker 3
Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Shuffle Elder Glen Teachings into your library.
If you paid the kicker cost, search your library for a basic land and a creature instead.
Elder Glen Musings
Sorcery
Cost: G
Multikicker 2
Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Shuffle Elder Glen Musings into your library.
For each time the kicker cost was paid, you may search for an additional basic land.
Both these are interesting. I don't think they have done the "shuffle into owner's library" at un/common before, but I'm also not sure I can see a good reason (beyond a lack of precedence) why it can't be done. Traverse the Ulvenwald being a rare could be a strike against them, although I guess something like this could be a neat tool in Commander and so fulfil the "card that goes in several decks are uncommons"-requirement.
(As an aside: How would this influence how you build a mana-base in constructed? Say BG decks played this over Traverse or Attune with Aether?)
Peddler of Souls
Creature - Human Wizard 4RR
Prowess.
Sacrifice a non-devil creature: Peddler of Souls gets +3/+0 and first strike until end of turn.
3/4
It has high power, but it "dies to removal". For six mana, perhaps that is an acceptable risk/reward in peasant. You then have the option to go all-in, risking a significant part of your board. The correct play is probably to not do that, but I can see situations were you attack, they block with mana up, daring you to pump and risk being 2-for-1-'ed.
I think I would have liked this better as a 4/3, since then the prowess could be relevant for countering 3-damage burn.
It has high power, but it "dies to removal". For six mana, perhaps that is an acceptable risk/reward in peasant. You then have the option to go all-in, risking a significant part of your board. The correct play is probably to not do that, but I can see situations were you attack, they block with mana up, daring you to pump and risk being 2-for-1-'ed.
I think I would have liked this better as a 4/3, since then the prowess could be relevant for countering 3-damage burn.
Hm, I figured 3/4 would be better, because a single prowess trigger basically makes it burn-proof.
It's definitely a risky card, but if you can back it up with some tokens and some counterspells and cantrips in an Izzet Deck you can probably end games in a single attack. Same with Gods Willing and Shelter in Boros Swarm.
Sure, it may be better at 3/4, but more interesting at 4/3. Perhaps at 4/3 it could cost a little less, maybe
3RR for 4/3 and then only +2/+0 for each creature you sack..?
Another thing is that I think all of these devils need to be (at least part) black... The only red creature I found that had a "Sacrifice a creature: [effect] until end of turn"-ability was Thermopod. This reads more as a Phyrexian Ghoul-type ability, whereas red usually sacrifices creatures to for direct damage (Orcish Bloodpainter, Scorched Rusalka, Skirsdag Cultist).
----
I just listened to an episode of Mark Rosewater's podcast "Drive to Work" were he talks about the design of uncommons (episode #392, 16.12.2016). Some interesting info there. Might be of interest to others in here too.
Well, if we keep it at six mana you do need a decent baseline at least, so I don't like 4/3 too much in that respect. I agree that it is more interesting. It's also possible that this should just be a 5 mana card, but that's the kind of thing we'd have to test for.
There is only one black devil in all of Magic. Devils are red. If you check the list of devils, all of them have unique effects. Red sacs things for different effects. So I think a red wizard who sacs stuff to devils fits right in there. It's unique, but that's what devils' effects are in Magic.
We can of course talk about making this a black card and changing the sac flavor to demons, but then we're not talking about a red six drop anymore.
That's what I'm saying. If we're looking for a red 5/6-drop, then I don't think a creature that sacrifices other creatures for power-pump is the answer, since that ability isn't red.
EDIT: It is not a super obvious off-limits colour break, like Gate to Phyrexia, Desert Twister or Chaos Warp. There are a few examples of red sacrificing creatures as costs, and power-pumping is definitely red. But it is still outside what is normally red's part of the colour pie. Perhaps in a set with a strong sacrifice theme (just as life payment was a cost in all colours in New Phyrexia despite being a typically more or less unique to black in most of magic).
Thought about ways to make auras better. I see two main issues with auras: 1-you open yourself up to a 2-for-1. 2-Auras are useful if you don't have a creature to play them on. Bestow is perhaps the best solution so far, since it solves both of the issues. My suggestion today only solves the second part of the issue, but since the choice is yours whether to "go for it" you should be able to make a risk-reward estimate then and there. The inspiration is obviously the living weapon mechanic. For bestow cards, the bestow mode is more expensive than the creature mode, but there the choice is more of an "AND" rather than an "OR". In these examples therefore, I have kept the two costs identical. No reason why they have to be.
So these aren't necessarily examples that would fit straight into C/Ube, but more something to exemplify the general idea:
Something-something of the Bear 1G
Enchantment - Aura Living Aura - 1G, exile this card from your hand: Create a 0/0 white Whisp token and attach this card to it.
Enchated creature gets +2/+2.
Bloodboiler Whisk1R
Enchantment - Aura Living Aura - 1R, exile this card from your hand: Create a 0/0 white Whisp token and attach this card to it.
Enchated creature gets +2/+1 and has menace.
You could also get creative with negative auras (although I'm not sure when you would want a wall rather than just taking out their best attacker):
Tendrils of medium-strength concrete 1W
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature can't attack. If you control enchanted creature, it gets +0/+4. Living Aura - 1W, exile this card from your hand: Create a 0/0 white Whisp token and attach this card to it.
It's pretty bad as is, but maybe if it was 'Put a -1/-1 counter on each creature your opponents control' it might make for a nice tool for black control. Not super powerful and kind of slow, but probably nice in the right deck.
How much mana is a -1/-1 counter on all your opponent's creatures even worth? BB? 2B? What about at instant speed? It's not really an effect that's been done outside of Contagion Engine, and that has a significant second effect.
How much mana is a -1/-1 counter on all your opponent's creatures even worth? BB? 2B? What about at instant speed? It's not really an effect that's been done outside of Contagion Engine, and that has a significant second effect.
2B sorcery speed doesn't sound overpowered to me (at peasant), though I reckon they would print it at 3B. Spells that deal damage or give creatures -X/-X like Drown in Sorrow only for a turn require specific timing to get the best value, but -1/-1 counters, even if it is just one counter, are permanent and therefore give you much more flexibility about when you can cast it for value.
There is the demon with the cycling / discard trigger, but in hindsight I'm surprised a sorcery speed version didn't make it into Amonkhet given the -1/-1 counter theme. I suppose with cards that use those counters as resources it doesn't make as much sense.
After we all got so excited for Abrade, I thought it would be fun to try complete the set of cubable modal cards, with one narrow option and another more general option. Here are some for size:
Purify Soul
W
Instant
Choose one -
- Target creature you control gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
- Destroy target enchantment.
Psychic Rebuff
1U
Instant
Choose one -
- Counter target instant or sorcery spell.
- Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand.
Diabolic Feast
BB
Sorcery
Choose one -
- Draw two cards and lose 2 life.
- Exile up to two target cards from a single graveyard. Gain 2 life.
Grasp of Bark
1G
Instant
Choose one -
- Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.
- Grasp of Bark deals 4 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures with flying.
Those all look playable. Diabolic Feast would be better as an instant, as then the second mode can be cast in response to an effect that targets cards in graveyards. Probably have to raise the cost to do that.
I'm going to make a prediction that we will get this basic effect in Hour of Devastation.
Some Egyptian-ish name
Cost : ???
Creature - ???
???, : Tap target creature.
???, exert ~THIS~, : Tap two target creatures.
?/?
The question is, will those question marks be good enough for us to consider? I'm guessing they will cost it more than we are willing to pay at peasant cube, because it will need to be balanced for limited decks that get multiple copies.
Probably cube-able
Some Egyptian-ish name
Cost : 1W
Creature - ??? W, : Tap target creature. 2W, exert ~THIS~, : Tap two target creatures.
1/1
More likely to see print (and not cubes)
Some Egyptian-ish name
Cost : 1W
Creature - ??? 1W, : Tap target creature. 3W, exert ~THIS~, : Tap two target creatures.
1/1
Creature - Race Class
First Strike, Menace
4/5
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
The combo of first strike and BOTH stats being high makes it harder to take down in combat than you might initially think. Even without menace, getting enough creatures to block it, AND have enough of them survive the first strike damage to be able to take out 5 toughness seems a tough ask. That said, I think the above card would certainly be playable in peasant cube without being ridiculous, but I don't think it is printable in a modern set at uncommon. And I suppose that is what we are really asking for in this thread
Here is an attempt at a 6 drop I've had rattling around in my head.
Devil Master
Creature - Human Wizard
Cost : 4RR
At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 red Devil creature token. It has "When this creature dies, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player".
Sacrifice a creature: ~THIS~ gets +1/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn.
4/4
Flavor might need some work, but I think it's mechanically interesting. Decent at stabilising the turn it comes down, especially if you have something else to sac to immediately to turn on first strike. The devils it creates play nicely with the second ability, letting you ping a larger creature after blocks and taking the creature out with first strike damage. And if you stabilise, it comes with some decent inevitability.
A couple of other ideas that have been rattling around for some green engine cards.
Elder Glen Teachings
Sorcery
Cost: G
Kicker 3
Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Shuffle Elder Glen Teachings into your library.
If you paid the kicker cost, search your library for a basic land and a creature instead.
Elder Glen Musings
Sorcery
Cost: G
Multikicker 2
Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Shuffle Elder Glen Musings into your library.
For each time the kicker cost was paid, you may search for an additional basic land.
I suppose the Teachings kind of replaces the land when it gets shuffled back in, so your deck land count kind of stays the same if you only ever cast it for a single mana, but then you can turn it into an engine in the late game, and it can help enable 5 colour shenanigans a little easier.
Not sure if the templating for Musings is perfect, but if you've got the time and draw it a few times, you can end up stripping all the land out of your deck.
Peddler of Souls
Creature - Human Wizard
4RR
Prowess.
Sacrifice a non-devil creature: Peddler of Souls gets +3/+0 and first strike until end of turn.
3/4
Non-devil is purely flavor, it doesn't make sense for someone who has a pact with devils to be able to sac those devils to gain power. Clearly the way to feed that hunger for power is to hand souls to the devils, who then give the wizard temporary power. The necessary sac ritual might well include dead bodies or demons or whatever. In the right set this could also just read "sac a human" or something similar.
Yeah, it might be too strong. I was thinking about what a red finisher at uncommon would look like, and how it could be made to have some inevitability. So I thought about non-flying evasion and thought menace+first strike sounded cool. And then I gave it a high toughness to be resilient against burn damage. Not sure if I suceeded on many points. Must mull this over more. Interesting though, Kari Zev, Skyship Raider was the first creature printed with both menace and first strike.
Yeah I think I agree with Spider that this seems rare. Free token creation every turn, have we seen that at un/common?
[[searches gatherer]] ...
yes:
Commander's Authority.
But that's it. Seems unlikely that they would put that ability with upside on a strong body. I could perhaps see it function power-wise if the tokens were created of a Young Pyromancer-trigger. But that would add even more text and complexity, and thus make it "more rare". A mana cost, like 2R to create a token, isn't purely downside either, since you can then machine-gun down things. Neat design though, but yeah, I think there is both a tad too much going on, and a tad too much power, for this not to be rare.
Both these are interesting. I don't think they have done the "shuffle into owner's library" at un/common before, but I'm also not sure I can see a good reason (beyond a lack of precedence) why it can't be done. Traverse the Ulvenwald being a rare could be a strike against them, although I guess something like this could be a neat tool in Commander and so fulfil the "card that goes in several decks are uncommons"-requirement.
(As an aside: How would this influence how you build a mana-base in constructed? Say BG decks played this over Traverse or Attune with Aether?)
It has high power, but it "dies to removal". For six mana, perhaps that is an acceptable risk/reward in peasant. You then have the option to go all-in, risking a significant part of your board. The correct play is probably to not do that, but I can see situations were you attack, they block with mana up, daring you to pump and risk being 2-for-1-'ed.
I think I would have liked this better as a 4/3, since then the prowess could be relevant for countering 3-damage burn.
Cool stuff all around : )
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Hm, I figured 3/4 would be better, because a single prowess trigger basically makes it burn-proof.
It's definitely a risky card, but if you can back it up with some tokens and some counterspells and cantrips in an Izzet Deck you can probably end games in a single attack. Same with Gods Willing and Shelter in Boros Swarm.
3RR for 4/3 and then only +2/+0 for each creature you sack..?
Another thing is that I think all of these devils need to be (at least part) black... The only red creature I found that had a "Sacrifice a creature: [effect] until end of turn"-ability was Thermopod. This reads more as a Phyrexian Ghoul-type ability, whereas red usually sacrifices creatures to for direct damage (Orcish Bloodpainter, Scorched Rusalka, Skirsdag Cultist).
----
I just listened to an episode of Mark Rosewater's podcast "Drive to Work" were he talks about the design of uncommons (episode #392, 16.12.2016). Some interesting info there. Might be of interest to others in here too.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
There is only one black devil in all of Magic. Devils are red. If you check the list of devils, all of them have unique effects. Red sacs things for different effects. So I think a red wizard who sacs stuff to devils fits right in there. It's unique, but that's what devils' effects are in Magic.
We can of course talk about making this a black card and changing the sac flavor to demons, but then we're not talking about a red six drop anymore.
EDIT: It is not a super obvious off-limits colour break, like Gate to Phyrexia, Desert Twister or Chaos Warp. There are a few examples of red sacrificing creatures as costs, and power-pumping is definitely red. But it is still outside what is normally red's part of the colour pie. Perhaps in a set with a strong sacrifice theme (just as life payment was a cost in all colours in New Phyrexia despite being a typically more or less unique to black in most of magic).
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
3/1 Kujar Seedsculptor at 2G
4/2 trample at 2G (this is probably still just quite bad for CUbe standards)
4/2 ETB gain three life at 2G
1GG 4/2 spawn a 2/1 on death
weird inverse Shrill Howler
2G 4/2 creatures with toughness greater than this can't block this
bigger Viridian Emissary
2G 4/2 when this dies, you may fetch a basic and play it tapped
Warning: Not for the durdly-hearted!
So these aren't necessarily examples that would fit straight into C/Ube, but more something to exemplify the general idea:
Something-something of the Bear 1G
Enchantment - Aura
Living Aura - 1G, exile this card from your hand: Create a 0/0 white Whisp token and attach this card to it.
Enchated creature gets +2/+2.
Bloodboiler Whisk1R
Enchantment - Aura
Living Aura - 1R, exile this card from your hand: Create a 0/0 white Whisp token and attach this card to it.
Enchated creature gets +2/+1 and has menace.
You could also get creative with negative auras (although I'm not sure when you would want a wall rather than just taking out their best attacker):
Tendrils of medium-strength concrete 1W
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature can't attack. If you control enchanted creature, it gets +0/+4.
Living Aura - 1W, exile this card from your hand: Create a 0/0 white Whisp token and attach this card to it.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
It's pretty bad as is, but maybe if it was 'Put a -1/-1 counter on each creature your opponents control' it might make for a nice tool for black control. Not super powerful and kind of slow, but probably nice in the right deck.
Sure. But I like the idea. Put this at rare for STandard and have slightly weaker ones at un/common for limited. Smooth mana for everyone!
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
There is the demon with the cycling / discard trigger, but in hindsight I'm surprised a sorcery speed version didn't make it into Amonkhet given the -1/-1 counter theme. I suppose with cards that use those counters as resources it doesn't make as much sense.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Agree and more well-made hybrid cost cards would be nice too
Warning: Not for the durdly-hearted!
Purify Soul
W
Instant
Choose one -
- Target creature you control gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
- Destroy target enchantment.
Psychic Rebuff
1U
Instant
Choose one -
- Counter target instant or sorcery spell.
- Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand.
Diabolic Feast
BB
Sorcery
Choose one -
- Draw two cards and lose 2 life.
- Exile up to two target cards from a single graveyard. Gain 2 life.
Grasp of Bark
1G
Instant
Choose one -
- Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.
- Grasp of Bark deals 4 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures with flying.
Any other ideas would be fun to see as well.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Fallout Commander
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
I'm going to make a prediction that we will get this basic effect in Hour of Devastation.
Some Egyptian-ish name
Cost : ???
Creature - ???
???, : Tap target creature.
???, exert ~THIS~, : Tap two target creatures.
?/?
The question is, will those question marks be good enough for us to consider? I'm guessing they will cost it more than we are willing to pay at peasant cube, because it will need to be balanced for limited decks that get multiple copies.
Probably cube-able
Some Egyptian-ish name
Cost : 1W
Creature - ???
W, : Tap target creature.
2W, exert ~THIS~, : Tap two target creatures.
1/1
More likely to see print (and not cubes)
Some Egyptian-ish name
Cost : 1W
Creature - ???
1W, : Tap target creature.
3W, exert ~THIS~, : Tap two target creatures.
1/1
Instant sign in blood, with an alternate mode? nooooooo
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article