I got the feeling, I was missing something, without evaluating everything on my own. I also wanted to keep my whole evaluation up to date, so I decided to evaluate the missing things, like the other white creatures and after that, update everything to Gatecrash.
Al's right, the onslaught ones are much better. I don't think I'd ever play an off-colour cycling land, scraping playables isn't hard in the cube and anyways a basic will almost always be better, even the 18th one. You'll hardly ever want to cycle a land if you don't already have that colour of mana available, so it's really just a case of 1 mana being significantly cheaper than 2. Though I agree that cycling for 2 is exciting, the thing is that cycling for 1 is more exciting.
By the way, I don't think that either cycle is at all cubable, but each to their own.
This is a great review. Thank you for putting the time and effort to complete and keep it updated.
One thing that I think deserves mention is Ghostfire can kill Guardian of the Guildpact, which may make it a little more relevant than the other spells its grouped in, but not above Borderline.
With this review it should be easy for people to put a pauper cube together, because they just have to play every bomb and staple and then add most of the cubeables and some borderlines to fill the gaps.
The problem is, that I don't have the feeling that everyone looks at this review. ^^
I just considered Fiery Temper, because there is a big amount of discard effects in my cube right now and turning card disadvantage into a Lightning Bolt seems solid for me. The only thing that keeps me from playing it, is the RR.
I think it's on the same level as Ghostfire.
With this review it should be easy for people to put a pauper cube together, because they just have to play every bomb and staple and then add most of the cubeables and some borderlines to fill the gaps.
The problem is, that I don't have the feeling that everyone looks at this review. ^^
I just considered Fiery Temper, because there is a big amount of discard effects in my cube right now and turning card disadvantage into a Lightning Bolt seems solid for me. The only thing that keeps me from playing it, is the RR.
I think it's on the same level as Ghostfire.
There were only a few places where your review differed with the Number Crunch I did. Mainly it seemed to be that some of the control finishers aren't regarded as staples (presumably because some Cubers deem them to format warping) and the same thing with some of the cards that aren't immediately obvious how strong they are or how to get the most out of them (like Troubled Healer).
Yeah the Healer is still terribly underrated, IMO. I saw it deciding soo many games, that it's actually a reason for me to draft white, when I get it. I mean it's not just a walking Fog, it's also one of the few options against the strong burn archetype. My opponent had to give up, after trading 3 lands against 3 burnspells. Then the Healer died to the 4th one, while I got 3 other creatures left on an empty board against an empty hand.
I think my evaluations should fit with the opinion of the most people. If someone finds any card he still sees under- or overrated, please tell me.
Yeah the Healer is still terribly underrated, IMO. I saw it deciding soo many games, that it's actually a reason for me to draft white, when I get it. I mean it's not just a walking Fog, it's also one of the few options against the strong burn archetype. My opponent had to give up, after trading 3 lands against 3 burnspells. Then the Healer died to the 4th one, while I got 3 other creatures left on an empty board against an empty hand.
I think my evaluations should fit with the opinion of the most people. If someone finds any card he still sees under- or overrated, please tell me.
There's not a ton of disagreement that I noticed.
Going color by color starting with White
Questionable Staples
Heavy Ballista
Test of Faith
Celestial Flare
Deftblade Elite
Soltari Visionary
Arrest
Recumbent Bliss
Sometimes I don't remember, how I rated every card and over the time I changed my mind on some cards.
In this case: Test of Faith and Arrest will be decreased. The rest stays how it is. Here are the reasons:
-Heavy Ballista: This card makes combat math completly unpredictable. It doesn't just prevent every X/2 from attacking or blocking, it's also able to kill way bigger creatures.
-Celestial Flare: There are so many things, that can't be handled by normal hard removal spells, that this card is simply needed and can be picked higher than stuff like Pacifism or something, because there is enough other white hard removal, but none that can handle BlastodermandGuardian of the Guildpact.
-Deftblade Elite: Normally I dislike Onedrops, but this is nuts. It's not just a killer for every X/1 guy, it's also one of the best blockers in the cube and goes absolutly crazy with equipments or auras.
-Soltari Visionary: Yeah WW on a 3 drop sucks, but beeing able to kill every enchantment your opponent controls, while beeing a Soltari Lancer makes it better than a lot of the other 3 drops.
-Recumbent Bliss: I made such good experiences with this card. I'm actually think it's even better than Pacifism. Lifegain has simply shown to be great on useful cards. Pristine Talisman proves that and Mind Stone is a way worse basement for an effect like that, than Pacifism.
-Aven Riftwatcher: I think this card is still overrated, because of the fact how good it is in constructed pauper. It's good for sure, but the card disadvantage is way worse in limited, than in constructed.
-Steppe Lynx: As I said, I dislike Onedrops and this one is great in turn 1, but it can be a terrible topdeck. I mainly rate Onedrops too be good, if they are also good except for turn 1-3, like Deftblade Elite.
-Blinding Beam: A white Frost Breath remains Frost Breath, even if it's white and sometimes slightly better. It's solid, but simply no Sleep.
Edit: While editing the Test of Faith, I realised, that I counted Shelter as a staple. I'm not sure if Shelter is on the same level as one of the cc2 white hard removal spells or more on the level of the Test.
Hi all,
I recently started a Pauper cube and, need it be said or not, I just wanted to drop here that most of your lists were helpful, but I particularly want to thank this "Evaluate Everything" project, as Hoojo said it himself: from now on, if one ever want to put together a list, one would just have to jump on this section, gather the staples and good cards, add a little bit of jank, and... voilà!^^
While you'd certainly be stupid not to use this (excellent) Pauper evaluation as a starting point, you'd still need to change a few ratings/explanations for the commons too. e.g. Celestial Flare might be fine for Pauper but Peasant has enough better White removal spells that it doesn't get a look in. Or the Dredge commons get "more cubeable" because you'd have access to various synergistic uncommons to combine them with. That sort of thing.
Without prejudice, I don't think the consensus is as high on Celestial Flare as Al Z is.
From the Peasant Rankings I've seen it really does look like the ranking of commons is fairly different. Which makes sense in a bunch of cases where some cards are staples in Pauper only because there is nothing better available -- especially at higher mana costs.
Without prejudice, I don't think the consensus is as high on Celestial Flare as Al Z is.
From the Peasant Rankings I've seen it really does look like the ranking of commons is fairly different. Which makes sense in a bunch of cases where some cards are staples in Pauper only because there is nothing better available -- especially at higher mana costs.
As an avid pauper cuber, this is totally true. Some of the cards that we play would be totally laughable in peasant cubes.
KBH, have you drafted with Heavy Ballista? I think the card is absurd (in pauper cube).
As an avid pauper cuber, this is totally true. Some of the cards that we play would be totally laughable in peasant cubes.
KBH, have you drafted with Heavy Ballista? I think the card is absurd (in pauper cube).
I haven't drafted with it no. But the list I made was based on a survey of 13 cubes and not my personal opinions (I don't have any because I haven't played enough!). Heavy Ballista was only played in 5/13 Cubes
I wonder if some Cubes exclude the Ballista for exactly the reason that its so absurd?
EDIT: I'm reaching for anything to explain it because to me she looks like a mini-Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile and Brigid is near unbeatable once she's active.
I have been going through your very useful project; however, I have a few comments.
1) Benalish Knight (3cc White) is missing. I mention it because I have a place for it.
EDIT: FYI, Daru Stinger triggers on Humans AND Soldiers, I feel it bumps him to a Cubable as White is loaded with Humans and Soldiers, and if you search your average cube for Humans they are in all colors.
2) Your Ronom Hulk description seems to miss the fact it is a 5cc 5/6, as you comment on Ghor-Clan Savage saying a 5/6 would be just fine.
3) I am nit-picking your verbiage here. You often say something is ok, even acceptable, but then something extremely similar is bad or average. Example: "Goblin Shortcutter: An acceptable beater, that can bring damage through on etb. The only problem is, that you mainly don't want to play it in turn 2.
Goblin Skycutter: Flying hate is totally mainboardable in the most pauper cubes, but sometimes it just doesn't find a target and a 2/1 isn't too exciting."
Saying a 2/1 is 'acceptable' then 'isn't too exciting' seems to mean that 2/1 is anywhere from just-average to solid. There is also a lot of back and forth on Intimidate being either a solid, or just average evasion. I am only a stickler because there seems to be clear inconsistencies in areas that seem far more similar than not.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
By the way, I don't think that either cycle is at all cubable, but each to their own.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Please tell me if the reorganisation breaks any of the links here.
Nicely done on the review~
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Thank you. I edited them into Colorless spells cc6+ now.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
One thing that I think deserves mention is Ghostfire can kill Guardian of the Guildpact, which may make it a little more relevant than the other spells its grouped in, but not above Borderline.
The problem is, that I don't have the feeling that everyone looks at this review. ^^
I just considered Fiery Temper, because there is a big amount of discard effects in my cube right now and turning card disadvantage into a Lightning Bolt seems solid for me. The only thing that keeps me from playing it, is the RR.
I think it's on the same level as Ghostfire.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
I agree. Between this one and yours Hoojo I felt like I gained a fairly good grasp of the cards that make pauper go.
Have you updated yours? I think you were missing a few cards from the latest sets, right?
There were only a few places where your review differed with the Number Crunch I did. Mainly it seemed to be that some of the control finishers aren't regarded as staples (presumably because some Cubers deem them to format warping) and the same thing with some of the cards that aren't immediately obvious how strong they are or how to get the most out of them (like Troubled Healer).
I think my evaluations should fit with the opinion of the most people. If someone finds any card he still sees under- or overrated, please tell me.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
There's not a ton of disagreement that I noticed.
Going color by color starting with White
Questionable Staples
Heavy Ballista
Test of Faith
Celestial Flare
Deftblade Elite
Soltari Visionary
Arrest
Recumbent Bliss
Missed Staples
Aven Riftwatcher
Steppe Lynx
Blinding Beam
Sometimes I don't remember, how I rated every card and over the time I changed my mind on some cards.
In this case:
Test of Faith and Arrest will be decreased. The rest stays how it is. Here are the reasons:
-Heavy Ballista: This card makes combat math completly unpredictable. It doesn't just prevent every X/2 from attacking or blocking, it's also able to kill way bigger creatures.
-Celestial Flare: There are so many things, that can't be handled by normal hard removal spells, that this card is simply needed and can be picked higher than stuff like Pacifism or something, because there is enough other white hard removal, but none that can handle Blastoderm and Guardian of the Guildpact.
-Deftblade Elite: Normally I dislike Onedrops, but this is nuts. It's not just a killer for every X/1 guy, it's also one of the best blockers in the cube and goes absolutly crazy with equipments or auras.
-Soltari Visionary: Yeah WW on a 3 drop sucks, but beeing able to kill every enchantment your opponent controls, while beeing a Soltari Lancer makes it better than a lot of the other 3 drops.
-Recumbent Bliss: I made such good experiences with this card. I'm actually think it's even better than Pacifism. Lifegain has simply shown to be great on useful cards. Pristine Talisman proves that and Mind Stone is a way worse basement for an effect like that, than Pacifism.
-Aven Riftwatcher: I think this card is still overrated, because of the fact how good it is in constructed pauper. It's good for sure, but the card disadvantage is way worse in limited, than in constructed.
-Steppe Lynx: As I said, I dislike Onedrops and this one is great in turn 1, but it can be a terrible topdeck. I mainly rate Onedrops too be good, if they are also good except for turn 1-3, like Deftblade Elite.
-Blinding Beam: A white Frost Breath remains Frost Breath, even if it's white and sometimes slightly better. It's solid, but simply no Sleep.
Edit: While editing the Test of Faith, I realised, that I counted Shelter as a staple. I'm not sure if Shelter is on the same level as one of the cc2 white hard removal spells or more on the level of the Test.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Yeah I'm several sets behind because of time restraints. I think Al and I think along similar lines with cards though; I would stick to his review.
Without prejudice, I don't think the consensus is as high on Celestial Flare as Al Z is.
From the Peasant Rankings I've seen it really does look like the ranking of commons is fairly different. Which makes sense in a bunch of cases where some cards are staples in Pauper only because there is nothing better available -- especially at higher mana costs.
As an avid pauper cuber, this is totally true. Some of the cards that we play would be totally laughable in peasant cubes.
KBH, have you drafted with Heavy Ballista? I think the card is absurd (in pauper cube).
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I haven't drafted with it no. But the list I made was based on a survey of 13 cubes and not my personal opinions (I don't have any because I haven't played enough!). Heavy Ballista was only played in 5/13 Cubes
I wonder if some Cubes exclude the Ballista for exactly the reason that its so absurd?
EDIT: I'm reaching for anything to explain it because to me she looks like a mini-Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile and Brigid is near unbeatable once she's active.
For example, Rumbling Baloth is terrible with access to briarhorn, masked admirers, and druid's familiar. Most peasant cubes don't even play imperiosaur.
1) Benalish Knight (3cc White) is missing. I mention it because I have a place for it.
EDIT: FYI, Daru Stinger triggers on Humans AND Soldiers, I feel it bumps him to a Cubable as White is loaded with Humans and Soldiers, and if you search your average cube for Humans they are in all colors.
2) Your Ronom Hulk description seems to miss the fact it is a 5cc 5/6, as you comment on Ghor-Clan Savage saying a 5/6 would be just fine.
3) I am nit-picking your verbiage here. You often say something is ok, even acceptable, but then something extremely similar is bad or average. Example: "Goblin Shortcutter: An acceptable beater, that can bring damage through on etb. The only problem is, that you mainly don't want to play it in turn 2.
Goblin Skycutter: Flying hate is totally mainboardable in the most pauper cubes, but sometimes it just doesn't find a target and a 2/1 isn't too exciting."
Saying a 2/1 is 'acceptable' then 'isn't too exciting' seems to mean that 2/1 is anywhere from just-average to solid. There is also a lot of back and forth on Intimidate being either a solid, or just average evasion. I am only a stickler because there seems to be clear inconsistencies in areas that seem far more similar than not.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
MISSED STAPLES
Halimar Wavewatch
Sea Gate Oracle
Force Spike
Withdraw
Repulse
Condescend
QUESTIONABLE STAPLES
Welkin Tern
Thalakos Scout
Illusionary Forces
Phantom Monster