Now I'm curious to hear if you think there's any point in pushing those strategies further. One thing I'd like to do is to add a global pump effect to strenghten tokens (I already have Celestial Crusader), any suggestions? Are there token cards I missed?
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
signal pest is extremely narrow, and a few of the token producers mentioned (battle screech) aren't good enough.
Equipment really help tokens out. Even a trusty machete turns a midnight haunting into a complete beating.
We have a peasant cube thread on the first page of the cube forum, btw. the original purpose was for new card discussion, but we just use it however. We may have touched upon tokens at some time, I don't remember. Check it out.
by the way, squirrel's nest, sprout swarm and cenn's enlistment are the best token generators. bestial menace is also really high up there, with spectral procession.
i would like to push tokens and kinda do, but we need more anthem effects. intangible virtue is good and all but it's a completely dead card without tokens, which is kinda sad. celestial crusader seems like a pretty decent anthem effect, at least for white-based tokens.
I still have Celestial Crusader, he definitely helps. Our token producers got even better, but our anthems not much so. With Lingering Souls, we have perhaps the most powerful token producer we've ever gotten at this rarity for the price (and it also has sick synergy with Shrine of Loyal Legions). We are definitely lacking in the permanent pumps department. However, that's exactly the reason why Equipment are so great, especially the old ones from Mirrodin before they decided only higher rarity equipments can have aggressive equip costs. Bonesplitter, Grafted Wargear, and Loxodon Warhammer all make a lowly 1/1 token into a massive destroyer of souls.
Probably where my cube is different than most is how inclined I am to supporting temporary boost spells as well as mana sinks that can greatly support a token army. Cards such as Fortify, Swell of Courage, Peasant Revolt, and Charge Across the Araba all end the game out of nowhere, while cards such as Selesnya Guildmage provide key backup with its best anthem-like impression. While I no longer run some of the instant mass pump due to the shrinking of my cube, I'm still looking for as many mana sink pumps as possible. The new Sunhome Guildmage will provide this crucial function. With these cards included, I've found that tokens can very easily just end a game out of nowhere, and it's very difficult for removal to trade efficiently versus them. I also include fewer mass removal than most, so it makes tokens even more viable.
Now I'm curious to hear if you think there's any point in pushing those strategies further. One thing I'd like to do is to add a global pump effect to strenghten tokens (I already have Celestial Crusader), any suggestions? Are there token cards I missed?
Tokens is one of my favorite strategies in my cube, and I'm currently trying to push it by testing Intangible Virtue, Goldnight Commander and Phantom General in addition to Celestial Crusader, which I would play anyway. They've been all right so far; they're great in token decks but no one else wants Intangible Virtue or Phantom General, so I may take them out again soon. Goldnight Commander has been surprisingly good in a lot of decks, so I think that I'll be keeping him in regardless.
Shrine of Loyal Legions and Lingering Souls are cards that you didn't mention that I think you should play, regardless of whether you're pushing tokens. How is Necrogenesis working for you? Because it's always looked awful to me.
Goldknight commander has been a real home run lately.
I'm still playing intangible virtue, but barely. When I find a master splicer I'll be happier with it.
Maelig, cenns enlistment has been somewhat low end but if you're supporting tokens you're going to want to consider cards like this. It used to be a finisher that doubled as a stabilizing agent, but has been showing up less.
No card is this good with land tax though.
In any case, if we get a card better than goblin rally in gtc I could see people tuning their Boros sections for the archetype. Rally the peasants can win games.
How good have charge across the araba and swell of courage been for people? The first one especially sounds too narrow for me.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Me not.mentioning Souls is mainly due to the thread being from 2011...
Agreed that Goldnight Commander is pretty good. Necrogenesis doesn't work obviously.
And that's what I get for not checking the dates. Now I just feel silly.
How do people feel about Phantom General, by the way? He's not a total brick outside of tokens decks like Intangible Virtue is, but on the other hand he costs more, is more vulnerable, and isn't exactly a card I'd be happy to run unless I had 2 or 3 token-producing effects in my deck.
I'm trying to push a heavy token theme in my cube, but am opting out on both Intangible Virtue and Phantom General at the moment. I feel that there are enough better/versatile options to use instead.
Sunhome Guildmage will also be coming in....and I'm trying to squeeze in Thunderstaff, but I'm not sure if it's worth the spot for reasons other than being a pet card of mine.
I don't particularly like the tokens-only pumpers. They always struck me as being too narrow, even for a small list with a relatively high proportion of token producers.
Goldnight Commander seems reasonable but White is stacked at the 4-drop slot and I prefer the ones I'm already running.
I wonder if there's a R/B mass-sacrifice sub-archetype that's possible. Options include:
etc. I suppose the obvious problem is that you could get all tokens/no sac effects or vice-versa.
That's pretty much what I'm currently trying to build. Don't forget Thoughtpicker Witch there, she's my favourite sac outlet so far. I'll report back once I have some data.
Other cards I'm running to support that:
Goblin Bombardment
Raid Bombardment
Firecat Blitz
Carrion Feeder
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Gather the Townsfolk and arguably Thatchers' Revolt, but apart from that, pretty comprehensive list.
Lingering Souls Busted. Call of the Conclave Not what I want to combine with IV. Is Selesnya, so it's virtue-ally impossible to get it a slot. Selesnya Guildmage Good combination with IV, but Selesnya again. Doomed Traveler Card I want to add anyway. Kind of "collateral damage", except it's the opposite of damage. Shrine of Loyal Legions Good. Raise the Alarm One of the cards you'd need to add specifically to make IV viable. Card that hardly anyone else wants -> late valuable pick. Attended Knight Solid card that gets better with IV. Collateral benefits. Timely Reinforcements Good. Midnight Haunting See Raise the Alarm. Spectral Procession Good. Captain's Call See Raise the Alarm Master Splicer Not what I want to combine with IV. Cloudgoat Ranger Good. Belfry Spirit See Raise the Alarm Talrand's Invocation Good. Wing Splicer Not what I want to combine. Quest for the Gravelord Bad. Moan of the Unhallowed Good, but awkward color. Dragon Fodder Critical mass a.k.a. Raise the Alarm Krenko's Command dito Mogg War Marshal dito Beetleback Chief dito Goblin Rally dito Death by Dragons Not what I want to combine with IV Nest Invader Not what I want to combine with IV; crowded spot Jade Mage Good. Squirrel Nest Good. Imperious Perfect Good. Kozilek's Predator Not what I want to combine with IV; crowded spot Hunting Triad See Raise the Alarm Centaur Glade Not what I want to combine Sprout Swarm Busted. Beast Attack Not what I want to combine. Grizzly Fate Good. Bestial Menace Good. Nacatl War-Pride Not what I want to combine with IV. Maul Splicer Not what I want to combine with IV.
Raise the Alarm
Gather the Townsfolk
Midnight Haunting
Captain's Call
Dragon Fodder
Krenko's Command
Goblin Rally
Beetleback Chief
Mogg War Marshal
Hunting Triad
Thatchers' Revolt
Basically the second are cards I would add specifically to push IV, the first are cards that are good anyway (and thus come at little opportunity cost) and get better with IV. Here's another list (I like them), with possible redundant IV effects:
Goldnight Commander Yes, I think that's playable. Very playable. Creates unpredictable situations and thus tension. Celestial Crusader Only pumps white tokens. Meh. Combat trick still. Overrun Daddy is home. Phantom General Good enough. Accorder Paladin Fragile, but only two mana. Rally the Peasants and friends:Fortify, Guardians' Pledge, Path of Anger's Flame Possibly needed for explosivity. Bold Defense Meh. Break of Day and glorious charge Dunno.. Looks too one-shot. Flame-kin zealot Too one-shot and situational. Goblin bushwhacker Better FKZ. I like. Leaves behind a body that's pushed by following pumpers. Kabira Vindicator Waay too slow. Quest for the Goblin Lord Note that it pumps all creatures, not just goblins. Interesting card, but most of my red creatures are humans, not goblins. Hit // Run Weird spot, expensive. Swell of Courage Overrun's little brother, extra flexibility. Tears of Rage Monocolored cheaper Run with more risk. Zealous Persecution Well... Too one-shot, but can be a mass removal as well.
Conclusion: The permanent ones (I count Goldnight Commander among them) are good and, as a rule, better than temporary ones. The temporary ones need to pump for two or more, both power and toughness, or come with additional value. So, time for another list:
Phantom General
Goldnight Commander
(Celestial Crusader)
Overrun
Guardians' Pledge
Rally the Peasants
Goblin Bushwhacker
(Quest for the Goblin Lord)
(Run)
(Tears of Rage)
That seems worse than spawning pit, but not horrendous. Which would you prefer as a midrange deck vs removal dot deck?
I suppose Spawning Pit because it's better against sweepers and comes down sooner....I assumed the Catapult was too clunky, but I couldn't find any mention of it through search.
Another question:
Would it be a bad idea to replace Fume Spitter with Plagued Rusalka to help support sac.dec and tokens in a smaller cube?
I suppose Spawning Pit because it's better against sweepers and comes down sooner....I assumed the Catapult was too clunky, but I couldn't find any mention of it through search.
Another question:
Would it be a bad idea to replace Fume Spitter with Plagued Rusalka to help support sac.dec and tokens in a smaller cube?
No. Fume Spitter is solid, but far from crucial for anything. Let me know how Rusalka worked.
I have never seen Skull Catapult. I'll think about it a little. Saccing guys for Shocks looks like great value.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
You'd need to get at least two activations out of Skull Catapult for it to surpass Aeolipile or Moonglove Extract and I don't see that happening very often.
You'd need to get at least two activations out of Skull Catapult for it to surpass Aeolipile or Moonglove Extract and I don't see that happening very often.
I guess it depends a lot on the speed of your cube. When you consider the catapult in tandem with cards like Falkenrath Noble, Blood Artist, Reassembling Skeleton, etc it seems that it might be significantly stronger...it's completely deck dependent unlike the shockifacts, but that also means that it'd be likely to wheel.
But tokens have more efficient and dependable closers it seems....I'm mostly waxing nostalgic.
Now I'm curious to hear if you think there's any point in pushing those strategies further. One thing I'd like to do is to add a global pump effect to strenghten tokens (I already have Celestial Crusader), any suggestions? Are there token cards I missed?
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Mass pump effects are very important, I have: Rally the Peasants, Charge Across the Araba, Fortify, Celestial Crusader, Swell of Courage, Overrun, Tromp the Domains, Accorder Paladin, Signal Pest.
As for token producers: Cenn's Enlistment, Cloudgoat Ranger, Nest Invader, Master Splicer, Even the Odds, Bestial Menace, Shrine of Loyal Legions and Vital Splicer.
EDH:
Experiment Kraj
Ulasht, the Hate Seed
Balthor the Defiled
Pround owner of a C/Ube
... Imperious Perfect and/or Lys Alana Huntmaster?
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Equipment really help tokens out. Even a trusty machete turns a midnight haunting into a complete beating.
We have a peasant cube thread on the first page of the cube forum, btw. the original purpose was for new card discussion, but we just use it however. We may have touched upon tokens at some time, I don't remember. Check it out.
by the way, squirrel's nest, sprout swarm and cenn's enlistment are the best token generators. bestial menace is also really high up there, with spectral procession.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Probably where my cube is different than most is how inclined I am to supporting temporary boost spells as well as mana sinks that can greatly support a token army. Cards such as Fortify, Swell of Courage, Peasant Revolt, and Charge Across the Araba all end the game out of nowhere, while cards such as Selesnya Guildmage provide key backup with its best anthem-like impression. While I no longer run some of the instant mass pump due to the shrinking of my cube, I'm still looking for as many mana sink pumps as possible. The new Sunhome Guildmage will provide this crucial function. With these cards included, I've found that tokens can very easily just end a game out of nowhere, and it's very difficult for removal to trade efficiently versus them. I also include fewer mass removal than most, so it makes tokens even more viable.
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
Tokens is one of my favorite strategies in my cube, and I'm currently trying to push it by testing Intangible Virtue, Goldnight Commander and Phantom General in addition to Celestial Crusader, which I would play anyway. They've been all right so far; they're great in token decks but no one else wants Intangible Virtue or Phantom General, so I may take them out again soon. Goldnight Commander has been surprisingly good in a lot of decks, so I think that I'll be keeping him in regardless.
Shrine of Loyal Legions and Lingering Souls are cards that you didn't mention that I think you should play, regardless of whether you're pushing tokens. How is Necrogenesis working for you? Because it's always looked awful to me.
I'm still playing intangible virtue, but barely. When I find a master splicer I'll be happier with it.
Maelig, cenns enlistment has been somewhat low end but if you're supporting tokens you're going to want to consider cards like this. It used to be a finisher that doubled as a stabilizing agent, but has been showing up less.
No card is this good with land tax though.
In any case, if we get a card better than goblin rally in gtc I could see people tuning their Boros sections for the archetype. Rally the peasants can win games.
How good have charge across the araba and swell of courage been for people? The first one especially sounds too narrow for me.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Agreed that Goldnight Commander is pretty good. Necrogenesis doesn't work obviously.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
And that's what I get for not checking the dates. Now I just feel silly.
How do people feel about Phantom General, by the way? He's not a total brick outside of tokens decks like Intangible Virtue is, but on the other hand he costs more, is more vulnerable, and isn't exactly a card I'd be happy to run unless I had 2 or 3 token-producing effects in my deck.
I'm currently using:
Other support I'm running:
Sunhome Guildmage will also be coming in....and I'm trying to squeeze in Thunderstaff, but I'm not sure if it's worth the spot for reasons other than being a pet card of mine.
I like Intangible Virtue as a build-around card, but I don't run Phantom General since creatures are so much easier to remove.
That's pretty much what I'm currently trying to build. Don't forget Thoughtpicker Witch there, she's my favourite sac outlet so far. I'll report back once I have some data.
Other cards I'm running to support that:
Goblin Bombardment
Raid Bombardment
Firecat Blitz
Carrion Feeder
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I suppose Spawning Pit because it's better against sweepers and comes down sooner....I assumed the Catapult was too clunky, but I couldn't find any mention of it through search.
Another question:
Would it be a bad idea to replace Fume Spitter with Plagued Rusalka to help support sac.dec and tokens in a smaller cube?
No. Fume Spitter is solid, but far from crucial for anything. Let me know how Rusalka worked.
I have never seen Skull Catapult. I'll think about it a little. Saccing guys for Shocks looks like great value.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Definitely. Thursday will be my first run with the full cube...would've been last Thursday, but a shipment of cards got mauled by the postal service.
It's too bad Scorched Rusalka doesn't hit creatures....I could've similarly tested it in place of Fanatic.
I guess it depends a lot on the speed of your cube. When you consider the catapult in tandem with cards like Falkenrath Noble, Blood Artist, Reassembling Skeleton, etc it seems that it might be significantly stronger...it's completely deck dependent unlike the shockifacts, but that also means that it'd be likely to wheel.
But tokens have more efficient and dependable closers it seems....I'm mostly waxing nostalgic.