Hi all, CadaverousBl00m here. You may know me from such erstwhile cubes as Cube: the Gittening and the Optimal Multiplayer Cubes. And you may also recognize the fact that all of those are very, very multiplayer. And very not peasant. And here I am with a peasant duel cube? Haha, dogs and cats living together, the earth is flat and all of that jazz, right?
We are very blessed to have two young boys, along with another five nephews. They're all pretty tight, some of the older nephews are already into Pokemon and Yugioh, and our sons are already showing interest in "Daddy's cards". Our family has Magic in its future!
So we need something to teach the next generation of Magic nerds with! Enter this cube. Given that it's at first going to be a teaching tool more than anything, we've kept it at Peasant (common / uncommon), and have really chopped down on the complexity of the mechanics allowed onboard. As such, a lot of the classical Peasant cards are not in here for these reasons - we've tried to pick simple, easy-to-teach stuff. We can ramp up the complexity as we go along, no doubt.
While this is a fairly big list, the vast majority of these only appear in a single colour and/or only use cards with the hint text.
Cycling
Dash
Double Strike
Evoke
Fear
Flashback
Hybrid Mana Costs
Imprint
Infect
Intimidate
Morph
Phyrexian Mana Costs
Populate
Proliferate
Scry
Shadow
Unleash
Wither
Anything else you can think of that hasn't been listed so far!
So, now that we've really limited ourselves, here is the initial list of 360!
As always, you can draft this cube at CubeTutor!
Your feedback on this grand project of the future is greatly appreciated! We are currently sourcing the 360 cards, and plan to be in a position to suit this up in cardboard form in time for Christmas / New Year with the extended family.
And yes, my Multiplayer Cube Family is more than likely going to give this a test drive (or seven).
Glad you're branching out, I'll jump straight into some thoughts.
Mechanics:
Protection isn't super easy to teach, some older players even have problems with it somehow. For simplicity's sake, I'd also question Regenerate and Landwalk.
Scry and Cycling are good, simple mechanics that increase consistency. I think it's fine if you leave them out, but they're pretty reasonable.
When I was a child, one thing I always messed up / took forever to calculate were cards that gave certain things +1/+1. Meaning Phantom General, Intangible Virtue, Imperious Perfect, Favorable Winds, and also Goldnight Commander. Your little ones are probably farm more intelligent than what I used to be, but something to look out for, I would think. They may slow down games and/or not be calculated correctly. The only other ones I saw was Mad Auntie and Diregraf Captain, I am not sure if they are worthwhile to even cube.
Also, if you can, get the Duel Decks: Elspeth vs. Tezzeret version of Mishra's Factory. it seems to be the most straight forward text. Serendib Efreet will probably confuse them if you are running the misprint, as it even confuses adults.
If you have actual tokens and obvious counters/dice for +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters, it will help the little ones I think. I am sure you already have that, though.
That is just my opinion when it comes to play for the kids. Others with more Peasant experience can chime in to give better advice for cuts and adds. (Only been peasanting for a month).
Protection isn't super easy to teach, some older players even have problems with it somehow. For simplicity's sake, I'd also question Regenerate and Landwalk.
Scry and Cycling are good, simple mechanics that increase consistency. I think it's fine if you leave them out, but they're pretty reasonable.
I was all ready to type an answer about how I was nervous about Protection, but felt that there were too many good cards in there that had it... and then checked, and I think the only two in there are Mother of Runes and Guardian of the Guildpact! If there's only those two in there, you're definitely right... Protection is a rules newbie's nightmare.
Pretty sure that River Boa and Mire Boa are the only landwalkers, and they are firmly in the "I had these lying around" camp.
Regenerate, though, would discount Experiment One and Mad Auntie as well... that might be harder (as I'll get into a bit further down). You're right, though... not the easiest mechanic in the world if you start thinking too hard about it.
Cycling was literally the last mechanic I dropped. I had Unearth in the list very late on. Suspect it will be the first one I add in once they've got used to things. Scry was not far behind either.
Multiplayer is a lot higher on the multicolour cards, so, yes, probably a guilty carry-over from there.
A couple of the cards you mentioned are included only because they match the tribes somewhat (and it's been noted that kids love tribal, so I've tried to stick a bit of that in). That's definitely the only reason Mad Auntie and Diregraf Captain are here, among others. Reckon there are better options? Definitely agree with you on Conclave Naturalists and Dwynen's Elite, to that end.
I was definitely struggling to fill out the non-creature artifact section towards the end when I got down to stuff like Star Compass, yeah. Anything obvious that I'm missing? I suspect I might be well over the minimum number of mana rocks in a 360 cube. Exsanguinate and Aura Shards are multiplayer-centric cards that somehow snuck into my list. Derp.
When I was a child, one thing I always messed up / took forever to calculate were cards that gave certain things +1/+1. Meaning Phantom General, Intangible Virtue, Imperious Perfect, Favorable Winds, and also Goldnight Commander. Your little ones are probably farm more intelligent than what I used to be, but something to look out for, I would think. They may slow down games and/or not be calculated correctly. The only other ones I saw was Mad Auntie and Diregraf Captain, I am not sure if they are worthwhile to even cube.
Good call, that, yeah. I always think "Tribal" and add tribal lords and anthems that fit. I think it's probably worthwhile having a couple of simple anthems in, like Favorable Winds, but perhaps if I try and shoehorn too many tribal lord guys in it starts getting tricky? Dunno... I wonder if there's anything else that screams "You want to draft Zombies / Goblins haaard" along these lines? Prolly not.
Also, if you can, get the Duel Decks: Elspeth vs. Tezzeret version of Mishra's Factory. it seems to be the most straight forward text. Serendib Efreet will probably confuse them if you are running the misprint, as it even confuses adults.
Excellent points - I was already pondering that about Serendib Efreet, as I have indeed got the Revised misprints. The FtV copy is a perfectly reasonable price, and that would cause less confusion (plus the kids would probably go for the shiny and inadvertently discover the paradox of the efreet).
My copies of the Factory are 4th Ed, too, so the Duel Deck copy will most certainly read better as well.
If you have actual tokens and obvious counters/dice for +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters, it will help the little ones I think. I am sure you already have that, though.
Yeah, we're probably going to buy a Pound o' Dice for Christmas and share it out between the boys... no excuses for any of them after that!
First off, awesome project.
I agree about cutting protection and including Scry and Cycling. Scry is an evergreen mechanic so they will have to learn it eventually anyways. I would also question the inclusion of both Hexproof and Shroud (simultaneously). Having both together is very confusing and Hexproof can make for some very unfun games. Actually your only Hexproof card is Ascended Lawmage, so I would just cut him for sure.
Speaking of stuff that is a little unfun at times, you are playing some really powerful cards. Sol Ring and Story Circle in particular are not very fun to play against. Even the general speed of your format looks a little unforgiving. It might be worth playing a less powerful format with them for their first experiences.
As with all new players to the game, understanding the stack is usually the largest barrier. "Instant" is its own rather confusing mechanic that will take a while to teach, so be careful with permanents that have instant speed abilities.
Finally, and this might be controversial, I would only include the modern card frame. Clarity is essential, but the aesthetics are important too. Without a nostalgia factor the old card frames start to look pretty ugly. Always play the newest and clearest rules text, and remember that core set printings often have reminder text which is pretty helpful.
Most of the cards you included have printings with the modern card frame but there are some that do not:
I would definitely recommend replacing the other old-bordered cards with their modern frame counterparts.
Another important aesthetics thing to watch out for is printed rarity. Newer player will make picks based on rarity sometimes. Just something worth thinking about.
I'll come back and do a card-by-card later
First off, awesome project.
I agree about cutting protection and including Scry and Cycling. Scry is an evergreen mechanic so they will have to learn it eventually anyways. I would also question the inclusion of both Hexproof and Shroud (simultaneously). Having both together is very confusing and Hexproof can make for some very unfun games. Actually your only Hexproof card is Ascended Lawmage, so I would just cut him for sure.
... and I believe Wall of Denial might be the only Shroud card, too... so if we fix Azorius, we fix the problem. Win!
Hmm, so if I bring back in Cycling, that brings back in... er... off the top of my head... Unearth, Slice and Dice... what else have I forgotten?
Scry would bring back in a couple that escape my mind too.
Speaking of stuff that is a little unfun at times, you are playing some really powerful cards. Sol Ring and Story Circle in particular are not very fun to play against. Even the general speed of your format looks a little unforgiving. It might be worth playing a less powerful format with them for their first experiences.
As with all new players to the game, understanding the stack is usually the largest barrier. "Instant" is its own rather confusing mechanic that will take a while to teach, so be careful with permanents that have instant speed abilities.
Yeah, we're definitely thinking we'll need a couple of teaching duel decks first and foremost, before we introduce the cube... because, let's face it, a cube throws drafting and deck construction on top of the pile.
I actually don't mind there being a couple of unfun cards in there, really - part of learning the game is learning that some cards are really, really powerful to play with and really, really not fun to play against. If some cards are particularly oppressive, I'd remove them, but it's at least a handy exercise in card evaluation at first.
Dead right on instant/flash stuff, too. I think Thunderclap Wyvern might be the only card with flash, but it's got some good hint text, so I think that one might be safe.
Finally, and this might be controversial, I would only include the modern card frame. Clarity is essential, but the aesthetics are important too. Without a nostalgia factor the old card frames start to look pretty ugly. Always play the newest and clearest rules text, and remember that core set printings often have reminder text which is pretty helpful.
Yeah, good point, that. I think most of the cards in the list will be in modern frames where available. But having the clearest version is going to be something I'll have to watch, for sure.
Another important aesthetics thing to watch out for is printed rarity. Newer player will make picks based on rarity sometimes. Just something worth thinking about.
I'll come back and do a card-by-card later
If the players don't really know what rarity means then rarity shouldn't be an issue. He can explain it as "They just made more of these than those."
Oh, my 6yo has already figured out the concept of rarity.
I don't really have too much of a problem with the printed rarity of some cards being rare - the point of starting with a Peasant cube was more for the relative simplicity and power level than anything. It might teach them that rare-drafting doesn't work at a young age.
Thanks for your feedback, guys! Let me dig back into my list of viable scry and cycling cards...
We also want to make sure our allied guilds are at three cards each. Azorius is already sorted. The other four to drop are fairly easy to pick out of the list - Aura Shards, Branching Bolt, Diregraf Captain and Rix Maadi Guildmage all stand out to me as the weakest of the bunch. Given we want to balance the cube out, these should all get swapped for something colourless - land is probably a good idea, given we're currently at 40 artifacts / 35 land.
I also realised that Kaervek's Torch is worded to deal with interrupts, which is just a whole new level of confusion for newbies, and there are plenty of half-decent replacements for it.
Finally, the stats tell me that I have no less than 17 mana rocks, which is a little bit ridiculous. I reckon if we drop it to the ten Signets, Sol Ring and Mind Stone, that's a good mix.
Adding Cycling and Scry means I should at least be considering the following cards:
Check out the cube in my signature. I use it as a limited format tutorial cube for the students in my MS/HS club. Some of them are new to magic while others are just new to drafting. It sounds like your boys/nephews are slightly younger than MS age but I think we have the same purpose.
I totally agree with protection being difficult to 'grok' for new players. I do run some cards with protection and questions come up but again being slightly older they get the hang of it. I have a "Remember DEBT" poster on the wall that one of my students created for me.
I've noticed that some of the more complicated mechanics work as long as the reminder text is on the card. Also, I wouldn't include DFC cards if most of these kids hadn't started around Innistrad or at least been exposed in Origins.
Lastly NWO commons are easier to understand at a passing glance but most of the older commons have more helpful text (i.e. less keywords to remember).
Which remind me I need to update my cube with Origins and BFZ.
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
Cheers man! Always good to have another established cube to compare to.
Yeah, most of my nephews are below MS, but I reckon most of them could pick it up fairly easily. My eldest has watched half the cards filter in in the mail via PucaTrade, and is half-learning the game even from watching me open the cards and spending 30secs explaining them (his current fave is Blightning... good taste, that boy).
I've got the last handful of cards on the way in the post, and am about to get some nice sleeves for it... hope to have it all locked and loaded by December for a test run with my playgroup. So we'll see how it goes!
Okay,time to update this cube. It's had four changes - two cards we were chasing to complete the initial list, and two OGW cards that simply had to come in.
Reflector Mage in for Thunderclap Wyvern: This card is being called one of the top three Azorius cards in non-Pauper/Peasant cubes. No excuse to keep it out of here.
Stormchaser Mage in for Gelectrode: Don't think there's too many arguments that Stormchaser is a whole 'nother power level in comparison to Gelectrode.
My Multiplayer playgroup gave this cube a test-drive the other night with four players, and simply couldn't prevent themselves from playing 2HG instead of 1vs1, but a test drive is still a test drive.
We had Dimir control, Selesnya tokens, Sui Black and Izzet control. Cards that showed themselves up as strong (most of which we probably already knew): Loxodon Warhammer, Incremental Blight, Shockmaw Dragon, Carrion Feeder, Shrine of Loyal Legions, Artisan of Kozilek. That said, 2HG gives some of the fatter things more chance to shine.
Many, many positive comments from the gang, though - the cube feels very well balanced for only a few plays so far, and they enjoyed playing with it immensely.
I'm surprised you kept glassdust hulk over the wyvern
I can probably still change it.
TBH, it's probably my Multiplayer bent shining through - 5CC kinda-unblockable beatstick over an efficient 4-drop? Sure!
I take it the Hulk was the drop for most of you guys? I should really be checking the Pauper/Peasant thread more.
Thanks for sharing all this! Now I'm dying of curiosity: have you tested it with the kids yet? How'd it go?
They're still learning, TBH, but yeah... they're fully into it. I haven't actually drafted it with the kids yet - just essentially done a sealed pool with them. But they got it - it's definitely been a good move to limit and simplify the number of mechanics onboard, as I'm not having to explain how every second card works. My 7yo now fully appreciates the Limited awesomeness of Juggernaut (he got Rancor onto it and started grinning like a cheshire cat).
My usual gang actually really appreciated the simplicity, too - they're usually dealing with a different mechanic on every second card in my primary cube, so drafting this one actually made the gameplay faster (so yeah, limiting the mechanics is highly recommended... great suggestion in hindsight... wish I can remember who it was initially, but I suspect it was someone in the Peasant + Pauper Thread).
Will definitely be reporting back as I break this out with the kids more. My 7yo is currently climbing the walls for another game.
While we aren't drafting this cube yet, we are slowly introducing the kids to the concepts.
My first step was to tell my eldest to pick which colours he wanted to play, and then let him pick every card he liked in this colours (hooray 150-card deck!)... that got him introduced to the cards and mechanics in the cube perfectly well, even if the deck construction was lacking.
I've currently got it pared back to 40-card decks, with both sons constructing two-colour decks with cards of their own choice from the cube. The sitting room table currently has son #1's Orzhov lifegain deck, son #2's Rakdos aggro deck, Mum's Elf tribal with white for removal, and my Izzet spells deck. Who'd have thought that a 5yo would get the concept of Rakdos aggro so quickly? He's been brutal to face... "I draw Hymn to Tourach? Sweet. Point it at Dad".
I think my eldest, at 7yo, could probably handle drafting now (he's memorized half the cards in the cube, so he'd be OK at the card evaluation), but it's probably a bit hard on the 5yo. I suspect I'll be trying Rochester Draft first (where each booster is laid out on the table, and all picks are visible).
In terms of what is currently getting the job done in this cube? Breaker of Armies is pretty much game-ending if it gets to swing. Loxodon Warhammer has also been quite strong, and Cloudfin Raptor has been an incredible one-drop. Things have been well-balanced enough, though. Kids hate cards that cause self-damage, like Serendib Efreet... I'm hoping to have the opportunity to smack them over the head with it FTW at some point to teach a valuable life lesson or two.
So we took this cube on holidays with my extended family, and promptly hooked our three eldest nephews on the game.
Not far off introducing drafting to the gang, but we spent a few lazy days together with six decks that we pre-constructed out of the cube (mostly achieved by asking the lads which colours they wanted to play, and then showing them the options). We wound up with the following decks:
Of course, the kids decided they all wanted to beat the snot out of each other at the same time, so these decks frequently were suited up against each other in 4-6 player free-for-alls... not exactly what we designed it for (but as a Multiplayer guy at heart... well... what was I supposed to do...)
Obviously, such an environment makes the bigger stuff shine brighter, so the Eldrazi were all winners. Shockmaw Dragon was too.
But Skullclamp, Control Magic and Loxodon Warhammer also earnt new friends. They obviously remain very strong in this environment.
Aims in the coming weeks:
Actually get them drafting the cube. I have a game day with the gang slated for the 21st. We'll see if I can do it then. I'll probably start with Rochester Draft, just so that they get a feel for drafting first and foremost.
Finalize my Aether Revolt additions. There are currently about nine cards on my radar, given that AER is a really strong set at common/uncommon level.
My eldest is currently delighting in building decks out of this box in his spare time.
We've also done a six-player Rochester Draft with the kids and had a cracking tournament. Shockmaw Dragon continues to be an utter house. This cube is going to be around for a long, long time yet.
Lord of the Accursed in for Phyrexian Rager: As you could imagine, the kids right now hate burning through their own life totals and love Zombies. So....
We had a five-kiddie flight out of this cube on the weekend, forcing them to Rochester Draft to get into the idea of drafting rather than just building whatever the heck you want.
We ended up with Gruul beats, Boros Goblins/Equipment, Simic Fliers, Golgari Zombies and Azorius control. The Gruul and Simic decks ended up both unbeaten across three rounds. I saw the Simic deck pull off a very nice sequence of Talrand's Invocoation / Regrowth / recast Invocation / Favorable Winds / swing for 12 to the face. Loxodon Warhammer remains very, very swingy. Cast Out was decked, got cycled early due to mana screw and picked up a land for its owner. Bane of Bala Ged hit the table and actually got dealt with before it won the game (which impressed me... they're learning).
We are very blessed to have two young boys, along with another five nephews. They're all pretty tight, some of the older nephews are already into Pokemon and Yugioh, and our sons are already showing interest in "Daddy's cards". Our family has Magic in its future!
So we need something to teach the next generation of Magic nerds with! Enter this cube. Given that it's at first going to be a teaching tool more than anything, we've kept it at Peasant (common / uncommon), and have really chopped down on the complexity of the mechanics allowed onboard. As such, a lot of the classical Peasant cards are not in here for these reasons - we've tried to pick simple, easy-to-teach stuff. We can ramp up the complexity as we go along, no doubt.
What did we leave in and what did we chop out?
Annihilator
Battle Cry
Bloodthirst
Deathtouch
Defender
Evolve
First Strike
Flash
Flying
Haste
Hexproof
Indestructible
Landwalk
Lifelink
Menace
Morbid
Protection
Prowess
Reach
Regenerate
Shroud
Trample
Vigilance
While this is a fairly big list, the vast majority of these only appear in a single colour and/or only use cards with the hint text.
Cycling
Dash
Double Strike
Evoke
Fear
Flashback
Hybrid Mana Costs
Imprint
Infect
Intimidate
Morph
Phyrexian Mana Costs
Populate
Proliferate
Scry
Shadow
Unleash
Wither
Anything else you can think of that hasn't been listed so far!
So, now that we've really limited ourselves, here is the initial list of 360!
1x Doomed Traveler
1x Elite Vanguard
1x Goldmeadow Harrier
1x Mardu Woe-Reaper
1x Mother of Runes
1x Accorder Paladin
1x Kami of Ancient Law
1x Knight of Meadowgrain
1x Kor Skyfisher
1x Seeker of the Way
1x Wall of Omens
1x Attended Knight
1x Banisher Priest
1x Emancipation Angel
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Kor Hookmaster
1x Glimmerpoint Stag
1x Goldnight Commander
1x Guardian of the Guildpact
1x Phantom General
1x Seraph of Dawn
1x Cloudgoat Ranger
1x Serra Angel
1x Sentinel of the Eternal Watch
White Artifact
1x Shrine of Loyal Legions
White Instant
1x Cloudshift
1x Condemn
1x Mana Tithe
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Disenchant
1x Raise the Alarm
1x Midnight Haunting
White Sorcery
1x Sunlance
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Captain's Call
1x Feudkiller's Verdict
White Enchantment
1x Angelic Renewal
1x Intangible Virtue
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Pacifism
1x Arrest
1x Empyrial Armor
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Griffin Guide
1x Lashknife Barrier
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Story Circle
1x Faith's Fetters
White Enchantment Creature
1x Nyx-Fleece Ram
Blue Creature
1x Cloudfin Raptor
1x Phantasmal Bear
1x Frost Walker
1x Merfolk Looter
1x Vaporkin
1x Waterfront Bouncer
1x Frost Lynx
1x Illusory Angel
1x Jhessian Thief
1x Latch Seeker
1x Man-o'-War
1x Sea Gate Oracle
1x Serendib Efreet
1x Archaeomancer
1x Mist Raven
1x Whirler Rogue
1x Air Servant
1x Murder of Crows
1x Peregrine Drake
1x Jetting Glasskite
Blue Artifact
1x Crystal Shard
Blue Instant
1x Brainstorm
1x Force Spike
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vapor Snag
1x Arcane Denial
1x Counterspell
1x Impulse
1x Mana Leak
1x Snap
1x Exclude
1x Frantic Search
1x Psionic Blast
1x Repulse
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Dismiss
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Jace's Ingenuity
1x Opportunity
Blue Sorcery
1x Ponder
1x Compulsive Research
1x Sleep
1x Talrand's Invocation
Blue Enchantment
1x Curiosity
1x Favorable Winds
1x Narcolepsy
1x Singing Bell Strike
1x Propaganda
1x Control Magic
1x Mind Control
Black Creature
1x Carnophage
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Diregraf Ghoul
1x Plagued Rusalka
1x Vampire Lacerator
1x Blood Artist
1x Fledgling Djinn
1x Reassembling Skeleton
1x Vampire Interloper
1x Wight of Precinct Six
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Hypnotic Specter
1x Liliana's Specter
1x Mad Auntie
1x Phyrexian Rager
1x Vampire Nighthawk
1x Falkenrath Noble
1x Nekrataal
1x Skinrender
1x Vengeful Dead
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Noxious Ghoul
1x Sengir Vampire
1x Noxious Dragon
1x Phyrexian Gargantua
1x Culling the Weak
1x Dark Ritual
1x Tragic Slip
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Doom Blade
1x Go for the Throat
1x Ultimate Price
1x Reckless Spite
1x Feast or Famine
Black Sorcery
1x Duress
1x Ostracize
1x Reanimate
1x Exhume
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Night's Whisper
1x Sign in Blood
1x Victimize
1x Barter in Blood
1x Zombify
1x Incremental Blight
1x Exsanguinate
Black Enchantment
1x Quest for the Gravelord
1x Curse of Shallow Graves
1x Haunted Crossroads
1x Pestilence
Red Creature
1x Frenzied Goblin
1x Jackal Pup
1x Martyr of Ashes
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Monastery Swiftspear
1x Altac Bloodseeker
1x Ember Hauler
1x Goblin Recruiter
1x Goblin Shortcutter
1x Goblin Wardriver
1x Stormblood Berserker
1x Young Pyromancer
1x Blood Ogre
1x Boggart Brute
1x Cunning Sparkmage
1x Guttersnipe
1x Hissing Iguanar
1x Manic Vandal
1x Qal Sisma Behemoth
1x Beetleback Chief
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Gorehorn Minotaurs
1x Oxidda Scrapmelter
1x Seismic Elemental
1x Shockmaw Dragon
Red Artifact
1x Shrine of Burning Rage
Red Instant
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Incinerate
1x Searing Spear
1x Smash to Smithereens
1x Fireblast
Red Sorcery
1x Flame Slash
1x Kuldotha Rebirth
1x Arc Trail
1x Pyroclasm
1x Act of Treason
1x Arc Lightning
1x Flames of the Firebrand
1x Hordeling Outburst
1x Shatterstorm
1x Pyrotechnics
1x Kaervek's Torch
1x Rolling Thunder
Red Enchantment
1x Quest for the Goblin Lord
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Madcap Skills
1x Goblin Warrens
1x Lust for War
1x Raid Bombardment
1x Pyrohemia
Green Creature
1x Arbor Elf
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Experiment One
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Wild Nacatl
1x Jade Mage
1x Mire Boa
1x Priest of Titania
1x River Boa
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Satyr Wayfinder
1x Wall of Blossoms
1x Wall of Roots
1x Abzan Beastmaster
1x Carven Caryatid
1x Civic Wayfinder
1x Crocanura
1x Elvish Harbinger
1x Eternal Witness
1x Imperious Perfect
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Lys Alana Huntmaster
1x Temur Sabertooth
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Acidic Slime
1x Indrik Stomphowler
1x Destructor Dragon
1x Pelakka Wurm
Green Instant
1x Naturalize
1x Harrow
Green Sorcery
1x Prey Upon
1x Explore
1x Rampant Growth
1x Regrowth
1x Cultivate
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Elvish Promenade
1x Harmonize
1x Titania's Boon
1x Overrun
1x Restock
1x Hurricane
Green Enchantment
1x Rancor
1x Utopia Sprawl
1x Wild Growth
1x Fertile Ground
1x Curse of Predation
1x Centaur Glade
1x Arctic Aven
1x Wall of Denial
1x Ascended Lawmage
1x Thunderclap Wyvern
Dimir
1x Diregraf Captain
1x Psychatog
1x Moroii
1x Ribbons of Night
Rakdos
1x Rix Maadi Guildmage
1x Spike Jester
1x Terminate
1x Blightning
Gruul
1x Kird Ape
1x Flinthoof Boar
1x Horned Kavu
1x Branching Bolt
Selesnya
1x Trostani's Summoner
1x Behemoth Sledge
1x Armadillo Cloak
1x Aura Shards
Orzhov
1x Maw of the Obzedat
1x Zealous Persecution
1x Mortify
Golgari
1x Putrid Leech
1x Pharika's Mender
1x Putrefy
Simic
1x Trygon Predator
1x Horizon Chimera
1x Aether Mutation
Izzet
1x Gelectrode
1x Izzet Charm
1x Electrolyze
Boros
1x Truefire Paladin
1x Lightning Helix
1x Warleader's Helix
Colourless Creature
1x Pathrazer of Ulamog
1x Ulamog's Crusher
1x Artisan of Kozilek
Colourless Artifact Creature
1x Perilous Myr
1x Palladium Myr
1x Pilgrim's Eye
1x Galvanic Juggernaut
1x Juggernaut
1x Pierce Strider
1x Darksteel Sentinel
Colourless Artifact
1x Bonesplitter
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Sylvok Lifestaff
1x Trusty Machete
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Azorius Signet
1x Boros Signet
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Dimir Signet
1x Golgari Signet
1x Gruul Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mask of Memory
1x Mind Stone
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Selesnya Signet
1x Simic Signet
1x Star Compass
1x Vulshok Morningstar
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Grafted Wargear
1x Loxodon Warhammer
1x Pristine Talisman
1x War Horn
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Icy Manipulator
1x Serrated Arrows
Colourless Land
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Ancient Ziggurat
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Bloodfell Caves
1x Blossoming Sands
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Dismal Backwater
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Frontier Bivouac
1x Jungle Hollow
1x Jungle Shrine
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Mystic Monastery
1x Nomad Outpost
1x Opulent Palace
1x Quicksand
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Rugged Highlands
1x Rupture Spire
1x Sandsteppe Citadel
1x Savage Lands
1x Scoured Barrens
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Stalking Stones
1x Swiftwater Cliffs
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Thornwood Falls
1x Tranquil Cove
1x Urza's Factory
1x Vivid Crag
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Vivid Meadow
1x Wind-Scarred Crag
As always, you can draft this cube at CubeTutor!
Your feedback on this grand project of the future is greatly appreciated! We are currently sourcing the 360 cards, and plan to be in a position to suit this up in cardboard form in time for Christmas / New Year with the extended family.
And yes, my Multiplayer Cube Family is more than likely going to give this a test drive (or seven).
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Mechanics:
Protection isn't super easy to teach, some older players even have problems with it somehow. For simplicity's sake, I'd also question Regenerate and Landwalk.
Scry and Cycling are good, simple mechanics that increase consistency. I think it's fine if you leave them out, but they're pretty reasonable.
Cardlist:
Assorted mediocre looking cards: Empyrial Armor, Brainstorm, Noxious Dragon, Feast or Famine, Sign in Blood, Exsanguinate, Shatterstorm, Pathrazer of Ulamog
Green - Given your Elf theme, consider running Conclave Naturalists over Indrik Stomphowler and Dwynen's Elite over some other 2-drop, such as a Snake if you do decide to cut regeneration/landwalk.
Multicolor - For a 360 cube, the amount of Multicolor you have is probably overkill by a little bit? 3 per guild section seems like it'd play better, and it would let you cut questionable includes like Ascended Lawmage, Diregraf Captain, Terminate, Horned Kavu, and Aura Shards.
Artifacts - With all 10 Signets, many of your other mana-producing artifacts (Star Compass, Pristine Talisman, Worn Powerstone, Fertile Ground) are outclassed.
Lands - This looks good.
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
Also, if you can, get the Duel Decks: Elspeth vs. Tezzeret version of Mishra's Factory. it seems to be the most straight forward text.
Serendib Efreet will probably confuse them if you are running the misprint, as it even confuses adults.
If you have actual tokens and obvious counters/dice for +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters, it will help the little ones I think. I am sure you already have that, though.
That is just my opinion when it comes to play for the kids. Others with more Peasant experience can chime in to give better advice for cuts and adds. (Only been peasanting for a month).
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647
I was all ready to type an answer about how I was nervous about Protection, but felt that there were too many good cards in there that had it... and then checked, and I think the only two in there are Mother of Runes and Guardian of the Guildpact! If there's only those two in there, you're definitely right... Protection is a rules newbie's nightmare.
Pretty sure that River Boa and Mire Boa are the only landwalkers, and they are firmly in the "I had these lying around" camp.
Regenerate, though, would discount Experiment One and Mad Auntie as well... that might be harder (as I'll get into a bit further down). You're right, though... not the easiest mechanic in the world if you start thinking too hard about it.
Cycling was literally the last mechanic I dropped. I had Unearth in the list very late on. Suspect it will be the first one I add in once they've got used to things. Scry was not far behind either.
Multiplayer is a lot higher on the multicolour cards, so, yes, probably a guilty carry-over from there.
A couple of the cards you mentioned are included only because they match the tribes somewhat (and it's been noted that kids love tribal, so I've tried to stick a bit of that in). That's definitely the only reason Mad Auntie and Diregraf Captain are here, among others. Reckon there are better options? Definitely agree with you on Conclave Naturalists and Dwynen's Elite, to that end.
I was definitely struggling to fill out the non-creature artifact section towards the end when I got down to stuff like Star Compass, yeah. Anything obvious that I'm missing? I suspect I might be well over the minimum number of mana rocks in a 360 cube.
Exsanguinate and Aura Shards are multiplayer-centric cards that somehow snuck into my list. Derp.
Good call, that, yeah. I always think "Tribal" and add tribal lords and anthems that fit. I think it's probably worthwhile having a couple of simple anthems in, like Favorable Winds, but perhaps if I try and shoehorn too many tribal lord guys in it starts getting tricky? Dunno... I wonder if there's anything else that screams "You want to draft Zombies / Goblins haaard" along these lines? Prolly not.
Excellent points - I was already pondering that about Serendib Efreet, as I have indeed got the Revised misprints. The FtV copy is a perfectly reasonable price, and that would cause less confusion (plus the kids would probably go for the shiny and inadvertently discover the paradox of the efreet).
My copies of the Factory are 4th Ed, too, so the Duel Deck copy will most certainly read better as well.
Yeah, we're probably going to buy a Pound o' Dice for Christmas and share it out between the boys... no excuses for any of them after that!
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I agree about cutting protection and including Scry and Cycling. Scry is an evergreen mechanic so they will have to learn it eventually anyways. I would also question the inclusion of both Hexproof and Shroud (simultaneously). Having both together is very confusing and Hexproof can make for some very unfun games. Actually your only Hexproof card is Ascended Lawmage, so I would just cut him for sure.
Speaking of stuff that is a little unfun at times, you are playing some really powerful cards. Sol Ring and Story Circle in particular are not very fun to play against. Even the general speed of your format looks a little unforgiving. It might be worth playing a less powerful format with them for their first experiences.
As with all new players to the game, understanding the stack is usually the largest barrier. "Instant" is its own rather confusing mechanic that will take a while to teach, so be careful with permanents that have instant speed abilities.
Finally, and this might be controversial, I would only include the modern card frame. Clarity is essential, but the aesthetics are important too. Without a nostalgia factor the old card frames start to look pretty ugly. Always play the newest and clearest rules text, and remember that core set printings often have reminder text which is pretty helpful.
Most of the cards you included have printings with the modern card frame but there are some that do not:
- Angelic Renewal
- Empyrial Armor
- Lashknife Barrier
- Mystical Tutor ($$$)
- Snap
- Frantic Search
- Carnophage
- Fledgling Djinn
- Vengeful Dead
- Culling the Weak
- Diabolic Edict
- Ostracize
- Haunted Crossroads
- Pestilence
- Goblin Recruiter
- Kaervek's Torch
- Goblin Warrens
- Titania's Boon
- Star Compass
- Aether Mutation
- Ashnod's Altar
I would definitely recommend replacing the other old-bordered cards with their modern frame counterparts.Another important aesthetics thing to watch out for is printed rarity. Newer player will make picks based on rarity sometimes. Just something worth thinking about.
I'll come back and do a card-by-card later
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
... and I believe Wall of Denial might be the only Shroud card, too... so if we fix Azorius, we fix the problem. Win!
Hmm, so if I bring back in Cycling, that brings back in... er... off the top of my head... Unearth, Slice and Dice... what else have I forgotten?
Scry would bring back in a couple that escape my mind too.
Yeah, we're definitely thinking we'll need a couple of teaching duel decks first and foremost, before we introduce the cube... because, let's face it, a cube throws drafting and deck construction on top of the pile.
I actually don't mind there being a couple of unfun cards in there, really - part of learning the game is learning that some cards are really, really powerful to play with and really, really not fun to play against. If some cards are particularly oppressive, I'd remove them, but it's at least a handy exercise in card evaluation at first.
Dead right on instant/flash stuff, too. I think Thunderclap Wyvern might be the only card with flash, but it's got some good hint text, so I think that one might be safe.
Yeah, good point, that. I think most of the cards in the list will be in modern frames where available. But having the clearest version is going to be something I'll have to watch, for sure.
Oh, my 6yo has already figured out the concept of rarity.
I don't really have too much of a problem with the printed rarity of some cards being rare - the point of starting with a Peasant cube was more for the relative simplicity and power level than anything. It might teach them that rare-drafting doesn't work at a young age.
Thanks for your feedback, guys! Let me dig back into my list of viable scry and cycling cards...
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From above, abilities to be removed are Protection, Landwalk, Regenerate, Shroud and Hexproof.
We also want to make sure our allied guilds are at three cards each. Azorius is already sorted. The other four to drop are fairly easy to pick out of the list - Aura Shards, Branching Bolt, Diregraf Captain and Rix Maadi Guildmage all stand out to me as the weakest of the bunch. Given we want to balance the cube out, these should all get swapped for something colourless - land is probably a good idea, given we're currently at 40 artifacts / 35 land.
I also realised that Kaervek's Torch is worded to deal with interrupts, which is just a whole new level of confusion for newbies, and there are plenty of half-decent replacements for it.
Finally, the stats tell me that I have no less than 17 mana rocks, which is a little bit ridiculous. I reckon if we drop it to the ten Signets, Sol Ring and Mind Stone, that's a good mix.
Adding Cycling and Scry means I should at least be considering the following cards:
After all that, my first cut at making the appropriate changes is the following...
Is that all logical? Have I missed anything obvious? Or made a swap you'd slap yourself over?
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I totally agree with protection being difficult to 'grok' for new players. I do run some cards with protection and questions come up but again being slightly older they get the hang of it. I have a "Remember DEBT" poster on the wall that one of my students created for me.
I've noticed that some of the more complicated mechanics work as long as the reminder text is on the card. Also, I wouldn't include DFC cards if most of these kids hadn't started around Innistrad or at least been exposed in Origins.
Lastly NWO commons are easier to understand at a passing glance but most of the older commons have more helpful text (i.e. less keywords to remember).
Which remind me I need to update my cube with Origins and BFZ.
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Yeah, most of my nephews are below MS, but I reckon most of them could pick it up fairly easily. My eldest has watched half the cards filter in in the mail via PucaTrade, and is half-learning the game even from watching me open the cards and spending 30secs explaining them (his current fave is Blightning... good taste, that boy).
I've got the last handful of cards on the way in the post, and am about to get some nice sleeves for it... hope to have it all locked and loaded by December for a test run with my playgroup. So we'll see how it goes!
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
My Multiplayer playgroup gave this cube a test-drive the other night with four players, and simply couldn't prevent themselves from playing 2HG instead of 1vs1, but a test drive is still a test drive.
We had Dimir control, Selesnya tokens, Sui Black and Izzet control. Cards that showed themselves up as strong (most of which we probably already knew): Loxodon Warhammer, Incremental Blight, Shockmaw Dragon, Carrion Feeder, Shrine of Loyal Legions, Artisan of Kozilek. That said, 2HG gives some of the fatter things more chance to shine.
Many, many positive comments from the gang, though - the cube feels very well balanced for only a few plays so far, and they enjoyed playing with it immensely.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I can probably still change it.
TBH, it's probably my Multiplayer bent shining through - 5CC kinda-unblockable beatstick over an efficient 4-drop? Sure!
I take it the Hulk was the drop for most of you guys? I should really be checking the Pauper/Peasant thread more.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Akrasia, a Custom 360 Cube
New To Cube?
Cubing with Two: A Guide to Two-Player Draft Formats
They're still learning, TBH, but yeah... they're fully into it. I haven't actually drafted it with the kids yet - just essentially done a sealed pool with them. But they got it - it's definitely been a good move to limit and simplify the number of mechanics onboard, as I'm not having to explain how every second card works. My 7yo now fully appreciates the Limited awesomeness of Juggernaut (he got Rancor onto it and started grinning like a cheshire cat).
My usual gang actually really appreciated the simplicity, too - they're usually dealing with a different mechanic on every second card in my primary cube, so drafting this one actually made the gameplay faster (so yeah, limiting the mechanics is highly recommended... great suggestion in hindsight... wish I can remember who it was initially, but I suspect it was someone in the Peasant + Pauper Thread).
Will definitely be reporting back as I break this out with the kids more. My 7yo is currently climbing the walls for another game.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
We've made the following changes to the 360:
While we aren't drafting this cube yet, we are slowly introducing the kids to the concepts.
My first step was to tell my eldest to pick which colours he wanted to play, and then let him pick every card he liked in this colours (hooray 150-card deck!)... that got him introduced to the cards and mechanics in the cube perfectly well, even if the deck construction was lacking.
I've currently got it pared back to 40-card decks, with both sons constructing two-colour decks with cards of their own choice from the cube. The sitting room table currently has son #1's Orzhov lifegain deck, son #2's Rakdos aggro deck, Mum's Elf tribal with white for removal, and my Izzet spells deck. Who'd have thought that a 5yo would get the concept of Rakdos aggro so quickly? He's been brutal to face... "I draw Hymn to Tourach? Sweet. Point it at Dad".
I think my eldest, at 7yo, could probably handle drafting now (he's memorized half the cards in the cube, so he'd be OK at the card evaluation), but it's probably a bit hard on the 5yo. I suspect I'll be trying Rochester Draft first (where each booster is laid out on the table, and all picks are visible).
In terms of what is currently getting the job done in this cube? Breaker of Armies is pretty much game-ending if it gets to swing. Loxodon Warhammer has also been quite strong, and Cloudfin Raptor has been an incredible one-drop. Things have been well-balanced enough, though. Kids hate cards that cause self-damage, like Serendib Efreet... I'm hoping to have the opportunity to smack them over the head with it FTW at some point to teach a valuable life lesson or two.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Not far off introducing drafting to the gang, but we spent a few lazy days together with six decks that we pre-constructed out of the cube (mostly achieved by asking the lads which colours they wanted to play, and then showing them the options). We wound up with the following decks:
- Boros Goblins with Skullclamp, Goblin Warrens and so on.
- Golgari graveyard play, with Reassembling Skeleton working some ridiculous level of double duty.
- Dimir control with a bunch of strong fliers and Control Magic.
- Orzhov lifegain / drain, with Loxodon Warhammer, Blood Artist and friends.
- Azorius control, featuring countermagic, Cloudblazer and Mind Control.
- Rakdos aggro, with all manner of burn.
Of course, the kids decided they all wanted to beat the snot out of each other at the same time, so these decks frequently were suited up against each other in 4-6 player free-for-alls... not exactly what we designed it for (but as a Multiplayer guy at heart... well... what was I supposed to do...)Obviously, such an environment makes the bigger stuff shine brighter, so the Eldrazi were all winners. Shockmaw Dragon was too.
But Skullclamp, Control Magic and Loxodon Warhammer also earnt new friends. They obviously remain very strong in this environment.
Aims in the coming weeks:
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
My eldest is currently delighting in building decks out of this box in his spare time.
We've also done a six-player Rochester Draft with the kids and had a cracking tournament. Shockmaw Dragon continues to be an utter house. This cube is going to be around for a long, long time yet.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Here is the Amonkhet update this cube is in the process of doing:
- Bloodlust Inciter in for Mogg Fanatic: I'm dropping a Goblin, which won't be popular, but this guy is a most-excellent one-drop.
- Bloodrage Brawler in for Altac Bloodseeker: Bigger, badder, angrier, and a cow. What reason could there possibly be to not make this swap?
- Cast Out in for Faith's Fetters: Fetters is a fine card, but instant cyclable O-Ring? Oh my...
- Consuming Fervor in for Kuldotha Rebirth: Another Goblin card out, but this one has proven too hard to cast.
- Honored Crop-Captain in for Truefire Paladin: Another better creature coming in.
- Khenra Charioteer in for Horned Kavu: More expensive to cast, but much, much angrier and evasive.
- Lord of the Accursed in for Phyrexian Rager: As you could imagine, the kids right now hate burning through their own life totals and love Zombies. So....
We may also end up giving Shefet Monitor a run over Krosan Tusker, just to see.We had a five-kiddie flight out of this cube on the weekend, forcing them to Rochester Draft to get into the idea of drafting rather than just building whatever the heck you want.
We ended up with Gruul beats, Boros Goblins/Equipment, Simic Fliers, Golgari Zombies and Azorius control. The Gruul and Simic decks ended up both unbeaten across three rounds. I saw the Simic deck pull off a very nice sequence of Talrand's Invocoation / Regrowth / recast Invocation / Favorable Winds / swing for 12 to the face.
Loxodon Warhammer remains very, very swingy. Cast Out was decked, got cycled early due to mana screw and picked up a land for its owner. Bane of Bala Ged hit the table and actually got dealt with before it won the game (which impressed me... they're learning).
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor