CubeTutor shows you what cards are being first picked and last picked on the analysis page. I use it with my cubes and cross it with paper drafts to see whats not being drafted.
Anyways, retraining the bots means that whatever you draft on the draft sim, the bots learn from that and start picking cards you draft sooner.
I'm eyeing the krenko and goblinsuite you have built in your cube. Which, if any, of these cards have been particularly useful or effective? I'm concerned my goblin support is a little light, and I'm considering beefing it up a teeny bit: mogg war marshal, legion loyalist, etc... I'd love to hear how goblin tokens has been for your group.
Goblins have been weird. I had a whole 10 card package in there with Matron to smooth it out, but only 1 person has ever has tried to make it work. It didn't. I think if we were making 40, and maybe even 50, card decks it would be doable, but at 66... nope. The problem with War Marshall is that he isn't really good enough on his own. Loyalist may actually be in the Cube right now, but he never does anything useful since when people attack it's usually into an empty board. It's like he makes favorable situations more favorable, and that's sort of useless.
Despite this, Krenko is still worth it. He usually spits out 4-8 dudes before he eats it and can help grease a lot of decks without really pushing him too hard.
Seige-Gang Commander has been the strongest of the bunch with Goblin Marshall doing his job too. I thought about that new Hordeling card too since 3 bodies for 1 card with a relevant tribe is always good.
Yeah, I am curious about that one. Spectral Procession isn't ever going to get in there and I have a pretty heavy token thing going on in there, but the fact that it's Red and they are goblins makes a huge difference.
Thanks for the intel. I'll try slotting outbust in during my next update, and see how that plays out.
So, today I finally updated a bunch of stuff in the Cube. The last set gave us 5 new generals to contemplate and a bunch of other crap came in too.
I did add Hordeling Outburst since nobody played Goblinslide. In the end they are probably more similar than not and Outburst gives you guys for sure.
I'll need to update the list, but I did add Yasova, Shu Yun, Alesha, Anafenza, Reality Shift, Tasigur, Nissa Worldwaker, Mana Drain, Ugin, Perilous Vault, and Crux of Fate. There was other stuff too but it was too big to remember and I need to go to bed.
Which of the fate generals have you had the chance to play or watch so far? I'd be particularly interested in hearing how your group liked yasova, shu yun, and tasigur.
During my last update, I installed tasigur, shu yun, alesha, and atarka, along with a bunch of other non-legendary fate cards. I haven't had a chance to run the cube with my group yet.
I put Tasigur, Yasova,, and Shu Yun in there but so far nobody has tried them... in all fairness though we only drafted once since then and then we opted for constructed this last week (first time in 6 months).
I'm feeling very conflicted on sidisi, undead vizier in my own edh cube. On the one hand, it's an undeniably powerful card with a built in tutor. On the other hand, I've been attempting to avoid including more tutor effects in mine, and even cutting back on well established staples such as chord of calling. What're your thoughts on this one?
Whoa, that was a lot... I am trying to push Simic into more Simicky things and Golgari towards dredge and graveyard stuff. I still want to see more Naya Tokens so I added some stuff there, and then just tossed i a bunch of "let's see what happens" bull***** for cards that weren't getting played. Good stuff got cut, but I never saw them make the cut.
Thanks for the update. Were these all just additions, or did you somehow find cuts for all that stuff (/masochism!)? Any plans to update your cubetutor?
Thanks for the update. Were these all just additions, or did you somehow find cuts for all that stuff (/masochism!)? Any plans to update your cubetutor?
Every card here represents a cut from the last list. Mostly I was looking at all the cards that don't see play and shopped them. Lots of good stuff gone, but if people don't deck it, it doesn't matter if I think it's good.
I'll be excited to see what these changes look like when your full list is updated and within the context of the remaining cube. It seems like you'll have a really unique animal on your hands!
I'll be excited to see what these changes look like your full list is updated and within the context of the remaining cube. It seems like you'll have a really unique animal on your hands!
Shambleshark is awful, but a 2/1 flash for 2 in a color scheme I'm trying to force towards Evolve/Simic BS it makes sense. Instead of running just the 10 best UG cards I want to see slightly more thematic decks. So far nobody's biting. We tend to build midrange decks with hints of a strategy instead of a deck that does ______.
I kind of touched on how I feel about your cube with the design of my cube, and the comments I made in regard to your comments. I think your cube is severely limited by the design choice to have only 315 one-colored cards...that's only 52.5% (mine is 66%). You've admitted that your cube really only supports 3-color builds. What also worries me about your cube is that it doesn't really support a lot of strategies other than a modular "just pick the best cards you can" strategy.
Another thing I'm noticing: you have hardly any tutors at all. I think that's a mistake, though maybe 60-card Commander doesn't use them as much as 100-card Commander does. No tutors is part of what I'm seeing is a lack of realization of the differences between Standard and EDH: you don't have cards that are good in EDH but bad in Standard, but you DO have cards good in Standard but bad in EDH. I also think your curve is a little low: you have too many low-cost little effects and not enough high cost big ones. In particular, you need more X spells. And what's with all the double strike?
Comments on subsections:
White: I think you're a little too heavy into "forbid" effects, a little too light into weenie help (particularly non-Soldier weenie help), and a lot too light into artifacts/quipment/voltron help. You don't have Odric or Darien (then again, you don't have Tajic to combo with them) for the weenie help nor do you have Reveillark or Reya to reanimate weenies. Mirran Crusader is a damn good card, but in EDH, something like Knight of the White Orchid might be better. Not entirely sure about the two walls you have, either. Not sure Soldier tribal is the best format to support, because Soldiers aren't like Angels: you don't really run Soldiers in EDH except as tribal. I'd either have Angel support (you don't seem to have a lot of Angels) or general weenie support. I also notice you have a couple ways to deal with enchantments, but few actual enchantments (and, if I'm not mistaken, ZERO white Auras).
Blue: I'm not seeing a lot of help for running artifacts or milling. What I am seeing is you and I running almost completely different sets of creatures. Another thing I notice is you have a lot of cards that fiddle with the top of your library, but you don't have a big monoblue draw X spell. I'd drop Ancestral Vision and Treasure Cruise for Cryptic Command and Mind Spring.
Black: No real complaints on creatures. Glad to see Damnable Pact. The one complaint I have is that I'm seeing a lot of "draw two" spells. I'd cut those for either recurring draw, massive draw, or something completely different, like Exquisite Blood or Exsanguinate or Rise of the Dark Realms. Oh, Recurring Nightmare is banned.
Red: I see you realized, like I did, that red sucks so badly in EDH you actually DO have room to run some Goblins. However, you need more Dragons. Utvara Hellkite and Hellkite Charger are IMO auto-adds, and you might also consider Hoard-Smelter Dragon. I don't particularly care for your creature/noncreature balance in this color; I think there needs to be more creatures.
Green: No Azusa (or any of those other fun-with-a-lot-of-lands bunch)? No Archetype? No Elvish Piper? No Regal Force or Soul of the Harvest? Also, needs more reclamation and token generation, and less defender.
Multicolor: You're running completely different cards than I am. Seems like a quarter of them are Gods or walkers. You have an un-card in your Rakdos list (and if you want a card that does something like that, there's a general called Tsabo Tavoc that you could have; if I remember right, it's one of the only Rakdos legends with a 4+ comm rathing). Selesnya should have Trostani's Summoner and Aura Shards. I'd have liked to see Mayael and Nekusar as generals.
Colorless/Artifacts: If you split colored into creatures and noncreatures, it would've been nice if you split this into creatures, equipment, and other stuff. I AM glad you run all five sword of A & Bs, though. IMO you don't need both the Keyrunes AND the Talismans, especially if you also have the Signets. Neither are particularly good. Not a fan of running Conspiracy-only cards here, FWIW. What you ought to be running are combo/recursion creators like Rings of Brighthearth. Lands: There's just too many of them IMO. You have almost 15% of your cube as lands. If there's one area you can skimp on, it's lands. If people want lands, they can just run more basic lands (which shouldn't be included in the cube, FWIW).
We've been playing this Cube for about 2 years now and it's evolved to the place it's at because it's what works for us.
There are some personal choices that speak to the playgroup that tends to run this Cube. We like multicolor so having a Cube that defaults to 2 and 3 color decks works.
All tutors have been replaced with small draw when possible. Tutors remove the randomness from the game and when you are working on a smaller pool of cards that's already an issue even with tutors.
There are a number of strategies that people run beyond goodstuff.dec. We see Token Swarm, Stax, Discard Control, Reanimator, Superfriends, and General Beats. These are the archetypes people have most often requested. Low curves are also something the group prefers. This comes from years of Armageddon decks and being cockslapped with Stax all the time. Weenie decks don't work when you have players picking every Wrath effect in the first half of every pack. We love board wipes and weenies don't last. We tried milling about a year ago and when the Cube first got built - Blue at first and then Dimir last time. It didn't work because Mill just sucks if you don't have a bunch of tutors to create combo engines. So, the mill in Cube against 66 card decks it too passive to really win games. it sort of helped with reanimator but didn't go the distance and got voted out. Mind Spring and Cryptic got cut a long time ago. Mindspring never could have more than 3-4 mana dumped into it and UUU on Cryptic was just too hard even for the 2 color decks.
Red doesn't suck at all. Early on it was a little tentative because it was so destructive and killed games but red has always been one as popular as any other color.
Azusa doesn't work when you don't have to cards to load your hand with lands and those cards aren't good when you have 2-3 color decks that are trying to do other things AND you're looking at a potential Armageddon every couple turns. Regal Force only counts green creatures, so again, 2-3 color decks with lots of board removal.
Aura Shards had to get cut. It completely dominated games way more than anyone wanted. Mayael was awful and Nekusar was such an idiot pick that it was either cut him or cut half the draw spells in the Cube, so we opted to cut him. When people built him "right" the games were terribly unfun. The Grixis and Naya generals that are there now are there because they were the most balanced and fun of the options.
Conspiracy cards are the best thing they've made for Cube in forever... we love them. We also hate combo. Again, if you can't tutor aggressively for combo pieces there's no reason to run a crap card like Rings when it literally does nothing on its own. We use the mana rocks again because of the land destruction. Diversifying your mana base helps prevent stale games.
Basics aren't in the Cube. I could and may cut some of the lands and rocks, but there aren't really things I feel like it needs. We add and subtract things all the time, but it has reached a sort of happy place.
I do appreciate the comments though... sometimes I make decisions that aren't obvious or common-sensical to others and thinking a little about it helps me justify or not justify the choices I make.
Are you planning to update your cubetutor at any point? I'd really like to take your cube for a spin with all of the changes you mentioned in your last update!
Are you planning to update your cubetutor at any point? I'd really like to take your cube for a spin with all of the changes you mentioned in your last update!
Thanks!
No. I was not. But for you dear, I will.
(That and my 4 hour appointment today canceled last night and I'm sitting around doing nothing but staring out the window and cute trashy Portland people).
EDIT: Done. It's showing Char on there and I can't figure out where that came from and what's missing, but close enough I think.
In Dimir I have Oona and Lazav as my legends. They are fine cards that work both as generals and decked. I want to add Dragonlord Simulgar in my 10 UB cards but don't know if it'd be better to cut a legend or Consuming Aberration. Eh?
What do you want out of the card? Just the craziest GD draw spell possible? If you and your group can come up with some kind of clever penalty/pain for using it that'd be interesting. Maybe the caster has to offer up some card of sufficient value, that eventual winner can claim, that the group agrees the card can resolve over.
Otherwise, I'd recommend booster tutor if you want to add some kind of crazy, non group hug-style element.
What do you want out of the card? Just the craziest GD draw spell possible? If you and your group can come up with some kind of clever penalty/pain for using it that'd be interesting. Maybe the caster has to offer up some card of sufficient value, that eventual winner can claim, that the group agrees the card can resolve over.
Otherwise, I'd recommend booster tutor if you want to add some kind of crazy, non group hug-style element.
-D
I sort of thought that as soon as the card gets played the ante goes into effect. The winner keeps the card for the rest of the night. Although that doesn't seem like a really consequential cost for a free draw 7.
I thought about using Booster Tutor too but that means adding 15 cards. That sounds like work.
Anyways, retraining the bots means that whatever you draft on the draft sim, the bots learn from that and start picking cards you draft sooner.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyThanks!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Despite this, Krenko is still worth it. He usually spits out 4-8 dudes before he eats it and can help grease a lot of decks without really pushing him too hard.
Seige-Gang Commander has been the strongest of the bunch with Goblin Marshall doing his job too. I thought about that new Hordeling card too since 3 bodies for 1 card with a relevant tribe is always good.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I did add Hordeling Outburst since nobody played Goblinslide. In the end they are probably more similar than not and Outburst gives you guys for sure.
I'll need to update the list, but I did add Yasova, Shu Yun, Alesha, Anafenza, Reality Shift, Tasigur, Nissa Worldwaker, Mana Drain, Ugin, Perilous Vault, and Crux of Fate. There was other stuff too but it was too big to remember and I need to go to bed.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
During my last update, I installed tasigur, shu yun, alesha, and atarka, along with a bunch of other non-legendary fate cards. I haven't had a chance to run the cube with my group yet.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
-D
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Whoa, that was a lot... I am trying to push Simic into more Simicky things and Golgari towards dredge and graveyard stuff. I still want to see more Naya Tokens so I added some stuff there, and then just tossed i a bunch of "let's see what happens" bull***** for cards that weren't getting played. Good stuff got cut, but I never saw them make the cut.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I'll be excited to see what these changes look like when your full list is updated and within the context of the remaining cube. It seems like you'll have a really unique animal on your hands!
Shambleshark? Shambleshark?!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Another thing I'm noticing: you have hardly any tutors at all. I think that's a mistake, though maybe 60-card Commander doesn't use them as much as 100-card Commander does. No tutors is part of what I'm seeing is a lack of realization of the differences between Standard and EDH: you don't have cards that are good in EDH but bad in Standard, but you DO have cards good in Standard but bad in EDH. I also think your curve is a little low: you have too many low-cost little effects and not enough high cost big ones. In particular, you need more X spells. And what's with all the double strike?
Comments on subsections:
Lands: There's just too many of them IMO. You have almost 15% of your cube as lands. If there's one area you can skimp on, it's lands. If people want lands, they can just run more basic lands (which shouldn't be included in the cube, FWIW).
There are some personal choices that speak to the playgroup that tends to run this Cube. We like multicolor so having a Cube that defaults to 2 and 3 color decks works.
All tutors have been replaced with small draw when possible. Tutors remove the randomness from the game and when you are working on a smaller pool of cards that's already an issue even with tutors.
There are a number of strategies that people run beyond goodstuff.dec. We see Token Swarm, Stax, Discard Control, Reanimator, Superfriends, and General Beats. These are the archetypes people have most often requested. Low curves are also something the group prefers. This comes from years of Armageddon decks and being cockslapped with Stax all the time. Weenie decks don't work when you have players picking every Wrath effect in the first half of every pack. We love board wipes and weenies don't last. We tried milling about a year ago and when the Cube first got built - Blue at first and then Dimir last time. It didn't work because Mill just sucks if you don't have a bunch of tutors to create combo engines. So, the mill in Cube against 66 card decks it too passive to really win games. it sort of helped with reanimator but didn't go the distance and got voted out. Mind Spring and Cryptic got cut a long time ago. Mindspring never could have more than 3-4 mana dumped into it and UUU on Cryptic was just too hard even for the 2 color decks.
Red doesn't suck at all. Early on it was a little tentative because it was so destructive and killed games but red has always been one as popular as any other color.
Azusa doesn't work when you don't have to cards to load your hand with lands and those cards aren't good when you have 2-3 color decks that are trying to do other things AND you're looking at a potential Armageddon every couple turns. Regal Force only counts green creatures, so again, 2-3 color decks with lots of board removal.
Aura Shards had to get cut. It completely dominated games way more than anyone wanted. Mayael was awful and Nekusar was such an idiot pick that it was either cut him or cut half the draw spells in the Cube, so we opted to cut him. When people built him "right" the games were terribly unfun. The Grixis and Naya generals that are there now are there because they were the most balanced and fun of the options.
Conspiracy cards are the best thing they've made for Cube in forever... we love them. We also hate combo. Again, if you can't tutor aggressively for combo pieces there's no reason to run a crap card like Rings when it literally does nothing on its own. We use the mana rocks again because of the land destruction. Diversifying your mana base helps prevent stale games.
Basics aren't in the Cube. I could and may cut some of the lands and rocks, but there aren't really things I feel like it needs. We add and subtract things all the time, but it has reached a sort of happy place.
I do appreciate the comments though... sometimes I make decisions that aren't obvious or common-sensical to others and thinking a little about it helps me justify or not justify the choices I make.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Thanks!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
(That and my 4 hour appointment today canceled last night and I'm sitting around doing nothing but staring out the window and cute trashy Portland people).
EDIT: Done. It's showing Char on there and I can't figure out where that came from and what's missing, but close enough I think.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Otherwise, I'd recommend booster tutor if you want to add some kind of crazy, non group hug-style element.
-D
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I sort of thought that as soon as the card gets played the ante goes into effect. The winner keeps the card for the rest of the night. Although that doesn't seem like a really consequential cost for a free draw 7.
I thought about using Booster Tutor too but that means adding 15 cards. That sounds like work.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.