Please refer to my cubetutor for current list: CubeTutor Link
Cube Size: 360 Breakdown: Core/Expansion: 56 Each Color, 20 Multicolor, 60 Colorless
Format: Pesant - Any card ever coined as uncommon by Wizards is fair game. This includes online releases, U2s, and foreign printings.
Portal: Yes
Un-Cards: No
Average # of Players: 4-8
It's been pretty difficult trying to slim down to 180...here are some cards that are on my mind at the moment:
Both Rolling Thunder and Fireball? I'm running both in my 400, and this cube is less than half the size....should I go down to just one? If so, which one? Removing one could make room for Lust for War or Fireblast or Ancient Hydra, etc
Wall of Denial vs. Arctic Aven: Arctic Aven is more versatile than the wall, and is more interactive. The wall is arguably the stronger card.
Qasali Pridemage vs. ????: I considered Trostani's Summoner, but that only goes into one type of deck...I'm trying to find guild cards that are multi-faceted. The Pridemage is just boooooooring.
Not to be a grumpy gus, but I feel like 180 is really small and will end up with stale drafts, even with just 2-4 people playing most times.
You could cut down to 312 and still support 8 players using 13 card packs (which is totally reasonable given that regular packs have a basic and at least one completely garbage card). If multiples of 90 are important, maybe just drop down to 270 to start? That still allows for a 6-person pod if you get lucky and will spare you some headaches in the short term. You can reevaluate in a month or two and cut further if necessary.
If you're dead set on going all the way down to 180, I wish you luck. I think at that size I'd just ignore multicolor cards completely and just concentrate on having as much variety in my monocolor sections as possible.
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As for your specific questions:
I like Fireball better since there are more efficient options for spreading damage until you get into huge amounts of mana with Rolling Thunder.
I wouldn't run Artisan at 180. I'd keep all the ramp targets in green itself and save colorless stuff for cards that are truly versatile and go into a ton of decks. I like the other dudes, so maybe Su-Chi and one of the 6-drops? I don't think there's a single deck in peasant that wouldn't at least draft Su-Chi and only the fastest of aggro decks wouldn't think about playing it.
I should mention that I'm still keeping my 400 card cube together....which we only draft about once or twice a month currently. This cube would only be drafted a couple times a month as well (if that). It's actually just as much a fun thought exercise as anything else.
The only cards that are in this cube that aren't in my regular one is Halimar Wavewatch and Duergar Hedge-Mage...so I'm trying to figure out a way to designate between the mini-cube cards and the regular cube. I know some people foil out their mini-cube, but I ain't got the skrilla for that.
I think I agree with you on all points except the multicolor section...
Well if this is just a side project, I'd really try to push specific archetypes instead of going with generic "good stuff." A smaller cube makes it easier to get the critical mass of cards needed to make otherwise narrow archetypes work. Plus, it'd make the play experiences of your two cubes very different.
One example would be the Honden cycle. They're inconsistent in a larger cube, where you're unlikely to get more than 1-2 of them and you can't be sure of getting the ones in your colors. In a 180 cube, you're almost certainly going to be able to draft the Honden deck most times if you want to force it and it's super good when it comes together.
Have you considered the Vivid cycle for this cube?
It's difficult to throw things like the hondens in when they only really support a single strategy....there isn't as much room for quirky effects. However, something like Vedalken Mastermind would be potentially more valuable, since it'd be a lot easier to set up combos with o-ring, fetters, etc. Fire Covenant is another card that could come in to combo with Spitemare, while still being a value card.
The vivids were among last things that were cut. I intended to run them, but instead I'm trying to minimize the amounts of CC in costs so there isn't as much need for them.
So I put this cube on CubeTutor for right now while I work out the kinks. This is mostly a fun challenge/mental exercise, so I'd really appreciate everyone's input. I shifted the cube to focus more on card interactions. I pared down some of the redundant effects. If you have a few minutes to kill, doing a few trial drafts to get a feel of the card selection may help.
This cube isn't about raw power, and there are tons of power cards that aren't on the list....It's more about flexibility, interesting game interactions, combos, and fringe archetypes.
Issues:
-I think my 3cc slots are too lean
-I'm debating on dropping down to 10 total guild cards to free up some slots.
-I like having a large colorless section to fill in the gaps, but maybe I should cut 5?
-There may be too many creature pumping cards (auras, spells, equipment)
-Reanimator may demand too many slots in black to be worthwhile.
I'll respond to the suggestions once I have my computer with me.
EDIT: one big card I'm debating over currently is isochron scepter, and it's part of the reason I'm running doom blade alongside a couple other 1-2cc instants. I also don't know how many 187 terrors on a stick creatures I want at this size.
Pelakka is definitely superior...jungle weaver was an attempt to try an eek out enough cards for a reanimator build, but I think it's just too small of a pool to really do it.
Good call on roar of the wurm...I'll look into fitting it in.
I wanted to see if I built my cube up to 360 from 200, thinking heavily on versatility and card interactions, if it'd look different than my current 360 list. The increase to 270 was pretty easy, and it made a lot of fringe strategies viable without taking up too many slots. I've been drafting it a lot to see what decks would look like at this size....and I'm pretty happy with the flexibility and archetypes that are available.
Now that I'm at 270, I've started a separate list to work up to 360, and I'm finding myself much less thrilled with the cards that are coming in. So I'm at a bit of a stalemate with my main cube project....so I may just put this one together and give it a run whenever my playgroup meets next.
I'm still debating on a few selections...so input is appreciated.
I suppose that would be in place of lorescale coatl, which is cute with sylvan library but is not exactly a card that makes you want to commit to simic. Switched them out.
Maybe I can be a little more specific on some decisions I've made in this cube.
So there are a few selections right now that have been made in the interest of diversifying the kinds of interactions that happen in a given game. Like Plumeveil over Wall of Denial, Turn to Mist over Cloudshift....This also means running proportionately less of Man-O'-War effects, 2-for-1 burn spells, and 187 terror creatures in black.
I also beefed up the artifact:cube ratio to allow for more mono-colored strategies.
posted the list. i tightened things up, with the exception of having a wonky hybrid breakdown....classifying far // away as half a blue and black card seems silly, but it's the best solution i've figured out so far.
-Breath of Darigaaz, +Pyroclasm: Don't like the fact that BoD doesn't hit flyers and also deals damage to each player, which seems a little counterproductive when you're trying stave off an attack.
-Ancient Hydra, +Volcanic Dragon: Haven't loved the hydra, and I felt like the dragon could be a fun win condition in a red-based control deck....May not last, but I need to get some firsthand experience with it.
I play breath of darigaaz in decks that want to kill ground creatures, and being able to almost wrath of god at a cost of 4 life if you have to (which also hurts the opponent) is amazing. It can be one sided easily.
I can kinda understand your point, and while breath of darigaaz is more interesting in game play (providing more variables to consider), pyroclasm seems much more useful for a control deck:
Hmmm....I do like pairing it with the skeletons, but I think it may be a little too narrow for a cube this size....
We had a 4 man draft last night. I forced worm harvest.dec...It was BUG with Harrow, Constant Mists, Psychatog, and Rot Farm Skeleton. I didn't see Harvest a single freakin game. I even worked rot farm shenanigans down to 3 cards left in my deck one game, and harvest was on the bottom. X(
Psychatog was essentially The Abyss, threatening lethal several games if left unblocked....Constant Mists showed up a lot, and was really great. It only felt unfair one game against an unprepared Rakdos Aggro deck. Darksteel Sentinel proved to be far more unfair.
U/W blink won the draft....Turn to Mist did lots of work for the pilot. I'll see if I can post decklists soon.
Pre-Draft Changes:
-Fluxcharger, +Frostburn Weird: Fulfilling similar duties, but I like that Weird comes down earlier and can occasionally work in a non-izzet deck.
Afterwards, I noticed that he actually had Ghostly Flicker in his sideboard...Had he ran it, he would've had access to the infinite combo with Archaeomancer and Peregrine Drake...to Capsize his opponent's board.
Frostburn Weird and Peregrine Drake both did lots of good work in this deck. I saw Weird swinging for 4 on turn 3 more than a couple of times. Crystal Shard ruined lives in this deck.
Basically nothing of mine ever died...haha. This was a really difficult deck to build, as I'd drafted Worm Harvest again, but felt that it was faaaar too slow and low impact for the deck. all my 5cc spells were pretty much game winners. I'd also drafted Masked Admirers which probably could've been maindecked in place of Barter in Blood...BiB was a meta call as I'd seen Darksteel Sentinel, Phantom Centaur, and Guardian of the Guildpact during the draft.
So, Worm Harvest is on the watchlist....it's probably not good enough, and too narrow for 270. Reach of Branches may take its spot.
=======
Post-Draft Changes:
-Nimbus Swimmer, +Shardless Agent: This is more of a fun call. I feel like G/U has enough late-game cards as it is.
-Peace Strider, +Etched Oracle: With the recent 5c results in BrownDog's cube, I've been thinking about how my cube is lacking an incentive to go for the 5 color deck. Peace Strider was never a really great card to begin with, and I don't need more 4cc drops in the cube.
CubeTutor Link
Cube Size: 360
Breakdown: Core/Expansion: 56 Each Color, 20 Multicolor, 60 Colorless
Format: Pesant - Any card ever coined as uncommon by Wizards is fair game. This includes online releases, U2s, and foreign printings.
Portal: Yes
Un-Cards: No
Average # of Players: 4-8
Banned: Sol Ring, Library of Alexandria
Under Construction
Both Rolling Thunder and Fireball? I'm running both in my 400, and this cube is less than half the size....should I go down to just one? If so, which one? Removing one could make room for Lust for War or Fireblast or Ancient Hydra, etc
Wall of Denial vs. Arctic Aven: Arctic Aven is more versatile than the wall, and is more interactive. The wall is arguably the stronger card.
Qasali Pridemage vs. ????: I considered Trostani's Summoner, but that only goes into one type of deck...I'm trying to find guild cards that are multi-faceted. The Pridemage is just boooooooring.
Artisan of Kozilek and Su-Chi: Alternative card options are Triskelion and Darksteel Sentinel.
You could cut down to 312 and still support 8 players using 13 card packs (which is totally reasonable given that regular packs have a basic and at least one completely garbage card). If multiples of 90 are important, maybe just drop down to 270 to start? That still allows for a 6-person pod if you get lucky and will spare you some headaches in the short term. You can reevaluate in a month or two and cut further if necessary.
If you're dead set on going all the way down to 180, I wish you luck. I think at that size I'd just ignore multicolor cards completely and just concentrate on having as much variety in my monocolor sections as possible.
-----
As for your specific questions:
I like Fireball better since there are more efficient options for spreading damage until you get into huge amounts of mana with Rolling Thunder.
I wouldn't run Artisan at 180. I'd keep all the ramp targets in green itself and save colorless stuff for cards that are truly versatile and go into a ton of decks. I like the other dudes, so maybe Su-Chi and one of the 6-drops? I don't think there's a single deck in peasant that wouldn't at least draft Su-Chi and only the fastest of aggro decks wouldn't think about playing it.
Crystal Ball seems too durdly for 180.
The only cards that are in this cube that aren't in my regular one is Halimar Wavewatch and Duergar Hedge-Mage...so I'm trying to figure out a way to designate between the mini-cube cards and the regular cube. I know some people foil out their mini-cube, but I ain't got the skrilla for that.
I think I agree with you on all points except the multicolor section...
One example would be the Honden cycle. They're inconsistent in a larger cube, where you're unlikely to get more than 1-2 of them and you can't be sure of getting the ones in your colors. In a 180 cube, you're almost certainly going to be able to draft the Honden deck most times if you want to force it and it's super good when it comes together.
Have you considered the Vivid cycle for this cube?
EDIT: there is also arbor elf with utopia sprawl/wild growth and squirrel nest...
The vivids were among last things that were cut. I intended to run them, but instead I'm trying to minimize the amounts of CC in costs so there isn't as much need for them.
I prefer rolling thunder over fireball btw
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
So what are some other interactions that'd be easy to switch in?
I could pretty easily do:
Blightning->Fire Covenant
Llanowar Elf->Arbor Elf
Search for Tomorrow->Utopia Sprawl
????->Vedalken Mastermind
????->Squirrel Nest
????->Land Tax
Firebolt->Flame Jab
????->Guttersnipe
Electrolyze->Gelectrode
Maybe Sylvok Lifestaff for Reassembling Skeleton combos....
Blood Artist/Falkenrath Noble since it's easier to pick up skeleton and token generators...
EDIT: I do suppose Pestilence would be good to go with Skeleton, Guardian of the Guildpact, and Spitemare
This cube isn't about raw power, and there are tons of power cards that aren't on the list....It's more about flexibility, interesting game interactions, combos, and fringe archetypes.
Issues:
-I think my 3cc slots are too lean
-I'm debating on dropping down to 10 total guild cards to free up some slots.
-I like having a large colorless section to fill in the gaps, but maybe I should cut 5?
-There may be too many creature pumping cards (auras, spells, equipment)
-Reanimator may demand too many slots in black to be worthwhile.
I'll respond to the suggestions once I have my computer with me.
EDIT: one big card I'm debating over currently is isochron scepter, and it's part of the reason I'm running doom blade alongside a couple other 1-2cc instants. I also don't know how many 187 terrors on a stick creatures I want at this size.
Pelakka is definitely superior...jungle weaver was an attempt to try an eek out enough cards for a reanimator build, but I think it's just too small of a pool to really do it.
Good call on roar of the wurm...I'll look into fitting it in.
I wanted to see if I built my cube up to 360 from 200, thinking heavily on versatility and card interactions, if it'd look different than my current 360 list. The increase to 270 was pretty easy, and it made a lot of fringe strategies viable without taking up too many slots. I've been drafting it a lot to see what decks would look like at this size....and I'm pretty happy with the flexibility and archetypes that are available.
Now that I'm at 270, I've started a separate list to work up to 360, and I'm finding myself much less thrilled with the cards that are coming in. So I'm at a bit of a stalemate with my main cube project....so I may just put this one together and give it a run whenever my playgroup meets next.
I'm still debating on a few selections...so input is appreciated.
But I would put nimbus swimmer in simic.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Maybe I can be a little more specific on some decisions I've made in this cube.
So there are a few selections right now that have been made in the interest of diversifying the kinds of interactions that happen in a given game. Like Plumeveil over Wall of Denial, Turn to Mist over Cloudshift....This also means running proportionately less of Man-O'-War effects, 2-for-1 burn spells, and 187 terror creatures in black.
I also beefed up the artifact:cube ratio to allow for more mono-colored strategies.
-Ancient Hydra, +Volcanic Dragon: Haven't loved the hydra, and I felt like the dragon could be a fun win condition in a red-based control deck....May not last, but I need to get some firsthand experience with it.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
pyroclasm hits about 80 creatures in my cube
unkicked breath of darigaaz hits about 40 creatures
kicked breath of darigaaz hits about 95
Pyroclasm is much more efficient and doesn't occasionally give your aggro opponent a Flame Rift as a consolation prize.
We had a 4 man draft last night. I forced worm harvest.dec...It was BUG with Harrow, Constant Mists, Psychatog, and Rot Farm Skeleton. I didn't see Harvest a single freakin game. I even worked rot farm shenanigans down to 3 cards left in my deck one game, and harvest was on the bottom. X(
I went 2-1, mostly because I didn't have enough removal. Pharika's Mender did some good work alongside Eternal Witness and Regrowth to recur Control Magic multiple times a game.
Psychatog was essentially The Abyss, threatening lethal several games if left unblocked....Constant Mists showed up a lot, and was really great. It only felt unfair one game against an unprepared Rakdos Aggro deck. Darksteel Sentinel proved to be far more unfair.
U/W blink won the draft....Turn to Mist did lots of work for the pilot. I'll see if I can post decklists soon.
-Fluxcharger, +Frostburn Weird: Fulfilling similar duties, but I like that Weird comes down earlier and can occasionally work in a non-izzet deck.
-Maw of the Obzedat, +Unburial Rites: I'm not running as much of a token theme at 270, Maw feels a little clunky.
-Tower Geist, +Peregrine Drake: Between Augur, Oracle, and Vanguard, I have enough blue creatures that cantrip. Peregrine seems much more interesting.
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We had a 4-man draft last night, and was fortunate enough to see 2 of the newest additions get lots of playtime.
The decks: Mono Blue!, G/B/r Recursion (me), Boros Aggro, G/B/W Midrange.
While I won 3-0, the 2-1 Mono Blue deck was pretty sweet:
1 Frostburn Weird
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Seagate Oracle
1 Serendib Efreet
1 Fettergeist
1 Archaeomancer
1 Clone
1 Mist Raven
1 Pierce Strider
1 Wing Splicer
1 Gryff Vanguard
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Riftwing Cloudskate
1 Into the Roil
1 Remand
1 Impulse
1 Compulsive Research
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Capsize
1 Condescend
1 Crystal Shard
16 Island
Afterwards, I noticed that he actually had Ghostly Flicker in his sideboard...Had he ran it, he would've had access to the infinite combo with Archaeomancer and Peregrine Drake...to Capsize his opponent's board.
Frostburn Weird and Peregrine Drake both did lots of good work in this deck. I saw Weird swinging for 4 on turn 3 more than a couple of times. Crystal Shard ruined lives in this deck.
My deck:
1 Civic Wayfinder
1 Fire Imp
1 Eternal Witness
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Rot Farm Skeleton
1 Marsh Flitter
1 Pharika's Mender
1 Shriekmaw
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Fire/Ice
1 Staggershock
1 Harrow
1 Victimize
1 Arc Lightning
1 Barter in Blood
1 Shower of Coals
1 Diabolic Servitude
5 Swamp
6 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Mirrodin's Core
1 Evolving Wilds
Basically nothing of mine ever died...haha. This was a really difficult deck to build, as I'd drafted Worm Harvest again, but felt that it was faaaar too slow and low impact for the deck. all my 5cc spells were pretty much game winners. I'd also drafted Masked Admirers which probably could've been maindecked in place of Barter in Blood...BiB was a meta call as I'd seen Darksteel Sentinel, Phantom Centaur, and Guardian of the Guildpact during the draft.
So, Worm Harvest is on the watchlist....it's probably not good enough, and too narrow for 270. Reach of Branches may take its spot.
=======
Post-Draft Changes:
-Nimbus Swimmer, +Shardless Agent: This is more of a fun call. I feel like G/U has enough late-game cards as it is.
-Peace Strider, +Etched Oracle: With the recent 5c results in BrownDog's cube, I've been thinking about how my cube is lacking an incentive to go for the 5 color deck. Peace Strider was never a really great card to begin with, and I don't need more 4cc drops in the cube.
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article