@ Goodking: Glad you like the idea, and if you make the change, I hope it works well for you.
@ Miscalcul8edRisk: Ice Storm hasn't been drafted yet, but I've been drafting Stone Rain since the beginning. There was a short period without it (after the cubes combined up until now) but I'm sure it'll do fine. Ice Storm and Stone Rain fit RG's tempo disruption theme, and should allow those colors to compete more effectively against control and the almighty blue.
Another minor change. I moved the color-based lands from the land section into their corresponding colors. This allowed me to remove cards from that section to add in more mono-colored cards (like switching Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth out so I could add in Innocent Blood) and stuff like that. It also allowed me to find room for Faerie Conclave, Shelldock Isle and Windbrisk Heights, which were always good enough for the cube, but not better than the other color-based land cards they were competing with. Now that those cards are fighting for a spot among the corresponding 65 card field (vs a 2 card field) they've found a home. Now I can use all four great blue-based nonbasics and the only real great black non-basic without worrying about the numbers. Also, this changed resulted in the cube having some good-looking numbers (65 of each color, 65 artifacts, 65 land and 45 gold). Nice round balanced numbers throughout. Fantastic.
I've thought about doing this too, because I really want to add in lands for four of the colors but I couldn't find a second (let alone a third) black land to run. This would allow me to bring in Conclave or Academy Ruins, Gaea's Cradle, and Barbarian Ring and possibly Kor Have or Heights. Definitely worth considering. Let us know how it works out.
I think it's going to work out fine. They basically get drafted as cards of their corresponding color anyways... so it's really not that significant of a change.
I think you need to consider Mwonvuli Acid-Moss for your cube. Consider Ice Storm which is playable at 2G. For the extra G, you get to ramp a land and fix your colour at the same time. That is even better than it sounds when you take into account the card advantage it gives you - most land destruction spells give 1:1 ratio for CA; acid-moss gives you 2:1. By accelerating you by one land and destroying theirs, it also doubles your tempo advantage. It is played a turn later than Ice Storm, but this isn't neccesarily a problem for green which can ramp to four mana very rapidly. It's slightly less splashable, but that's really my only complaint with the card.
Honestly, the card has been nothing short of outstanding for us in all kinds of G/X decks. I'd even run it if it only allowed you to blow up non-basics. I'd even swap out Ice Storm for it, or perhaps Vinelasher (you already know how I feel about him) or Fyndhorn Elves (duplicates in small Cubes are boring :p). I'd figure it might be even better for you as you're more likely to turn up fetchable duels than I am, haing a slightly smaller card pool.
I ws never too convinced by Contagion. I feel your mono-black aggro could use a Dauthi Marauder as back-up, on the other hand. Has Contagion really earned its keep? It's odd to see no love for Gifts Given too, but I assume you just would rather not run the HH promos. The card is unfair good, though.
I think it's going to work out fine. They basically get drafted as cards of their corresponding color anyways... so it's really not that significant of a change.
I really like this idea
Kinda goes hand in hand with our discussion of the UW CIPT ManLand from WWK.
I think sometimes we get all get a bit short-sighted about where things have to go.
I just recently moved those blue artifacts (Vedalken Shackles and Crystal Shard to U section.
I think you need to consider Mwonvuli Acid-Moss for your cube. Consider Ice Storm which is playable at :2mana::symg:. For the extra :symg:, you get to ramp a land and fix your colour at the same time. That is even better than it sounds when you take into account the card advantage it gives you - most land destruction spells give 1:1 ratio for CA; acid-moss gives you 2:1. By accelerating you by one land and destroying theirs, it also doubles your tempo advantage. It is played a turn later than Ice Storm, but this isn't neccesarily a problem for green which can ramp to four mana very rapidly. It's slightly less splashable, but that's really my only complaint with the card.
Honestly, the card has been nothing short of outstanding for us in all kinds of G/X decks. I'd even run it if it only allowed you to blow up non-basics. I'd even swap out Ice Storm for it, or perhaps Vinelasher (you already know how I feel about him) or Fyndhorn Elves (duplicates in small Cubes are boring :p). I'd figure it might be even better for you as you're more likely to turn up fetchable duels than I am, haing a slightly smaller card pool.
I ws never too convinced by Contagion. I feel your mono-black aggro could use a Dauthi Marauder as back-up, on the other hand. Has Contagion really earned its keep? It's odd to see no love for Gifts Given too, but I assume you just would rather not run the HH promos. The card is unfair good, though.
The problem with the Acid-Moss is the casting cost. Each turn you wait to play your LD spell, the weaker it becomes. At the 4 casting cost spot, I've got Creeping Mold, which I like a lot more because I can use it as a Disenchant too if need be. 3 casting cost LD spells are infinitely better than 4 casting cost LD spells, which are infinitely better than 5 casting cost LD spells and so on. If it's going to cost me 4 mana, it has to do something more than blow up lands... I want some strong flexability, and something that'll make the main-deck of a non-LD deck (Aftershock, Creeping Mold, etc.) Acid-Moss is not that card. Acid-Moss is a fine card, but I find my list too competitive at the moment. I'm glad you like it though.
Contagion is one of my favorite black spells. I'm planning on doing a write-up for my cube by color eventually, and part of that will be to explain my favorite "non-conventional" card from each section. Contagion is my card for that color. It's a free spell, often kills 2 targets, and can be used to cripple two targets to being functionally useless. Also, it's free. Did I mention it's free? It can be hard-cast at 5 occasionally too, often generating card advantage, or providing a more permanent defense than you can get from most other -X/-X cards, which usually only last until the end of turn. There is only the occasional black deck (when black is a splash color) where the Contagion doesn't make the cut. Otherwise, I'm always happy to draft it, main-deck it, draw it and play it.
And no on Gifts Given, or any other holiday-promo cards, and no Un- cards. They don't feel like real Magic cards to me.
Quote from Aznopium »
I really like this idea
Kinda goes hand in hand with our discussion of the :symu::symw: CIPT ManLand from WWK.
I think sometimes we get all get a bit short-sighted about where things have to go.
I just recently moved those blue artifacts (Vedalken Shackles and Crystal Shard to section.
And no on Gifts Given, or any other holiday-promo cards, and no Un- cards. They don't feel like real Magic cards to me.
I felt the need to second this. Un cards are funny, but I agree that they don't feel like real Magic cards at all. We did, however, sneak an Ashnod's Coupon into a draft once to mess with another player. (He's bad for saying "sensuous" if you get up to get a drink or go to the bathroom or something. Meaning "Since you was up... how about you get me a drink?") Other than that one time exception, no Un cards for my cube either.
I must also agree on no silver-bordered cards to me. I just don't like that they aren't real cards, and that the few that are good enough are a bit over the top (Gifts Given).
I don't use them mainly because they have no rules support and are impossible to judge. I'm sure in some groups it won't be a problem, but when we play for prizes (= always, if we have enough players) we want to play by the rules.
I also don't like the fact that they make the format feel casual and not serious, and I think that the first impression is more important than the potential gain. Many are not attracted to, and actually hate, un-cards. Even if I'm certain a few of the un-cards will be accepted as their game-play is tame enough they have the chance to scare off people from playing the cube again.
OTOH they definitely seem fine and I think I'd enjoy them in a different group or with different goals.
I agree, but when not playing for prizes, the more moderate ones are certainly good fun. There's actually a fair few that could see print as-is or with a minor tweak or two. Stuff like Rare-B-Gone and City of ass is excellent without having really strange mechanics.
I also need Tolarian academy, but can't afford one right now... proxy to the rescue!
I agree, but when not playing for prizes, the more moderate ones are certainly good fun. There's actually a fair few that could see print as-is or with a minor tweak or two. Stuff like Rare-B-Gone and City of ass is excellent without having really strange mechanics.
You don't think half a mana is strange? It just creates so many situations that can be interpreted in different ways.
Both the half mana and targeting of rare cards only is exactly what I'd call "strange mechanics". And yes, I'm in the camp of players that hate the "Un-" cards. They don't feel like real cards, and I don't have fun using them.
Both the half mana and targeting of rare cards only is exactly what I'd call "strange mechanics". And yes, I'm in the camp of players that hate the "Un-" cards. They don't feel like real cards, and I don't have fun using them.
I know some players who include City of Ass. It's pretty much a playable rupture spire, but I'm sure 5-color decks don't need anymore help. How about an okay un-card like Blast from the Past?
Wow, 2 cards from complete pimp! Foil or foreign or both? I'm still a good bit away from foiling.
Wow, 2 cards from complete pimp! Foil or foreign or both? I'm still a good bit away from foiling.
Foil where available, Japanese where foil not available and original (alpha-beta, AN, AT, LG, DK) and lots of altered art cards throughout.
Quote from umtiger »
I know some players who include City of Ass. It's pretty much a playable rupture spire, but I'm sure 5-color decks don't need anymore help. How about an okay un-card like Blast from the Past?
I simply don't like the feel of un- cards. Even Blast From the Past is too ridiculous for me. But I don't fault others for running them, they're just not for me.
I simply don't like the feel of un- cards. Even Blast From the Past is too ridiculous for me. But I don't fault others for running them, they're just not for me.
This is how I feel exactly.
Congrats on the almost fully pimped Cube (although I personally don't like non-English cards).
Edit: I notice you don't run Necropotence, which seems like a card you would be all over. Care to comment? Also, how has Vinelasher Kudzu been for you?
Vinelasher Kudzu has been really good. It's a solid splashable aggro card on it's own, but couples quite well with quite a few other cards in the cube (namely the 10 Fetchlands, Crucible of Worlds, Life From the Loam, the 10 Bouncelands, Undiscovered Paradise, Thawing Glaciers, Meloku the Clouded Mirror etc...) It's also a pet card for another person in my playgroup, but it's done surprisingly well, so I have no qualms with leaving it in. It's like a less explosive but more permanent/consistent green Plated Geopede.
Necropotence was a card that got cut because the rest of the playgroup doesn't like it that much. It's competing for a spot against cards like Yawgmoth's Bargain and Phyrexian Arena, both of which do a better job (in the cube). BBB is pretty rough, but I used to consider it a "pet card" to justify it. I wouldn't be opposed to putting it back in, but the rest of my playgroup would *****... and this cube is built for all of us to enjoy. Honestly, I'd love to get Necro back in the cube.
They are, but the archetypes they go in don't mind. They're solid, but not amazing. With a little help, the power-level and consistency rises quite a bit with these two guys. It's amazing how much better they can be with a few fetch/bounce lands. Even without, they're solid, but with the right support, I've seen them do crazy cool things.
I redid my OP with some cool new banners and color headers. Check it out!
Also, I'm in the middle of writing color summaries for each color outlining supported archetypes, color strengths, a top 10 list and some other stuff. I'm also going to write a cube article for my thread outlining my cube philosophy and design criteria. It will also be updated with pictures when the other two cards come in. I should have a totally revamped cube OP in a couple weeks.
Nice banners, man. While checking out the banners I was browsing your list. I noticed that you took our Harm's Way to make room for Windbrisk Heights in your white section. How has Windbrisk Heights been working out for you? We've been testing it out for a couple of months now, and I can't say that I remember it ever being activated. It just doesn't seem to be as good as it's blue cousin. I think I'd much rather have the solid white removal spell than this land that's rarely activated.
Awesome banners. I especially like the black one. I'm really looking forward to your cube articles.
I noticed in your changelog that you added Innocent Blood but it's not in black spell list. Did you forget or did you subsequently take it out? I'm curious because I'm strongly considering adding this card to my Cube.
Innocent Blood is in the cube, I just forgot to add it to the OP when I took out Urborg.
Windbrisk Heights has worked out just fine for us... it's not that hard to activate, and it can be pretty good, depending on what goes under it. It's not as good as Shelldock Isle, but it's been solid.
Because it kills artifacts, creatures and lands for 2RR. No other red card can do this, and flexibility in cube cards is crucial. There really isn't anything like it, so there isn't really anything better. Aftershock is fantastic... I consider it a cube staple even at the 360 card level.
@ Miscalcul8edRisk: Ice Storm hasn't been drafted yet, but I've been drafting Stone Rain since the beginning. There was a short period without it (after the cubes combined up until now) but I'm sure it'll do fine. Ice Storm and Stone Rain fit RG's tempo disruption theme, and should allow those colors to compete more effectively against control and the almighty blue.
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I've thought about doing this too, because I really want to add in lands for four of the colors but I couldn't find a second (let alone a third) black land to run. This would allow me to bring in Conclave or Academy Ruins, Gaea's Cradle, and Barbarian Ring and possibly Kor Have or Heights. Definitely worth considering. Let us know how it works out.
Cheers,
rant
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Honestly, the card has been nothing short of outstanding for us in all kinds of G/X decks. I'd even run it if it only allowed you to blow up non-basics. I'd even swap out Ice Storm for it, or perhaps Vinelasher (you already know how I feel about him) or Fyndhorn Elves (duplicates in small Cubes are boring :p). I'd figure it might be even better for you as you're more likely to turn up fetchable duels than I am, haing a slightly smaller card pool.
I ws never too convinced by Contagion. I feel your mono-black aggro could use a Dauthi Marauder as back-up, on the other hand. Has Contagion really earned its keep? It's odd to see no love for Gifts Given too, but I assume you just would rather not run the HH promos. The card is unfair good, though.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I really like this idea
Kinda goes hand in hand with our discussion of the UW CIPT ManLand from WWK.
I think sometimes we get all get a bit short-sighted about where things have to go.
I just recently moved those blue artifacts (Vedalken Shackles and Crystal Shard to U section.
Tolarian Academy needs a spot in my cube.
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The problem with the Acid-Moss is the casting cost. Each turn you wait to play your LD spell, the weaker it becomes. At the 4 casting cost spot, I've got Creeping Mold, which I like a lot more because I can use it as a Disenchant too if need be. 3 casting cost LD spells are infinitely better than 4 casting cost LD spells, which are infinitely better than 5 casting cost LD spells and so on. If it's going to cost me 4 mana, it has to do something more than blow up lands... I want some strong flexability, and something that'll make the main-deck of a non-LD deck (Aftershock, Creeping Mold, etc.) Acid-Moss is not that card. Acid-Moss is a fine card, but I find my list too competitive at the moment. I'm glad you like it though.
Contagion is one of my favorite black spells. I'm planning on doing a write-up for my cube by color eventually, and part of that will be to explain my favorite "non-conventional" card from each section. Contagion is my card for that color. It's a free spell, often kills 2 targets, and can be used to cripple two targets to being functionally useless. Also, it's free. Did I mention it's free? It can be hard-cast at 5 occasionally too, often generating card advantage, or providing a more permanent defense than you can get from most other -X/-X cards, which usually only last until the end of turn. There is only the occasional black deck (when black is a splash color) where the Contagion doesn't make the cut. Otherwise, I'm always happy to draft it, main-deck it, draw it and play it.
And no on Gifts Given, or any other holiday-promo cards, and no Un- cards. They don't feel like real Magic cards to me.
I too use both of those artifacts as blue cards.
And yes, Tolarian Academy has been super. It averages tapping for UU to UUU. Sometimes more.
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I felt the need to second this. Un cards are funny, but I agree that they don't feel like real Magic cards at all. We did, however, sneak an Ashnod's Coupon into a draft once to mess with another player. (He's bad for saying "sensuous" if you get up to get a drink or go to the bathroom or something. Meaning "Since you was up... how about you get me a drink?") Other than that one time exception, no Un cards for my cube either.
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I also don't like the fact that they make the format feel casual and not serious, and I think that the first impression is more important than the potential gain. Many are not attracted to, and actually hate, un-cards. Even if I'm certain a few of the un-cards will be accepted as their game-play is tame enough they have the chance to scare off people from playing the cube again.
OTOH they definitely seem fine and I think I'd enjoy them in a different group or with different goals.
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I also need Tolarian academy, but can't afford one right now... proxy to the rescue!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
You don't think half a mana is strange? It just creates so many situations that can be interpreted in different ways.
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I know some players who include City of Ass. It's pretty much a playable rupture spire, but I'm sure 5-color decks don't need anymore help. How about an okay un-card like Blast from the Past?
Wow, 2 cards from complete pimp! Foil or foreign or both? I'm still a good bit away from foiling.
Foil where available, Japanese where foil not available and original (alpha-beta, AN, AT, LG, DK) and lots of altered art cards throughout.
I simply don't like the feel of un- cards. Even Blast From the Past is too ridiculous for me. But I don't fault others for running them, they're just not for me.
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This is how I feel exactly.
Congrats on the almost fully pimped Cube (although I personally don't like non-English cards).
Edit: I notice you don't run Necropotence, which seems like a card you would be all over. Care to comment? Also, how has Vinelasher Kudzu been for you?
Cheers,
rant
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Necropotence was a card that got cut because the rest of the playgroup doesn't like it that much. It's competing for a spot against cards like Yawgmoth's Bargain and Phyrexian Arena, both of which do a better job (in the cube). BBB is pretty rough, but I used to consider it a "pet card" to justify it. I wouldn't be opposed to putting it back in, but the rest of my playgroup would *****... and this cube is built for all of us to enjoy. Honestly, I'd love to get Necro back in the cube.
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Also, I'm in the middle of writing color summaries for each color outlining supported archetypes, color strengths, a top 10 list and some other stuff. I'm also going to write a cube article for my thread outlining my cube philosophy and design criteria. It will also be updated with pictures when the other two cards come in. I should have a totally revamped cube OP in a couple weeks.
Until then, enjoy the new banners/headers!
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I noticed in your changelog that you added Innocent Blood but it's not in black spell list. Did you forget or did you subsequently take it out? I'm curious because I'm strongly considering adding this card to my Cube.
Cheers,
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Windbrisk Heights has worked out just fine for us... it's not that hard to activate, and it can be pretty good, depending on what goes under it. It's not as good as Shelldock Isle, but it's been solid.
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