I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I'm actually looking to include Vannifar in my cube to add some redundancy to the POD deck and have some cross synergy with azorius etb/blink effects. We'll see how it goes over with my group. It's suddenly a very crowded color pair.
It seems really odd that you're taking out Vannifar but putting in Intruder Alarm?
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
If she's missed, we'll bring her back. But nobody was playing pod strategies, like ever. So I don't think she'll be making a return anytime soon, despite her cool synergy with Intruder Alarm.
I was wondering since you took out Enclave Cryptologist.. Was it too slow for you or unpopular? I've not had many drafts with it in play to the point I think I'm keeping it because it's the only 1CMC creature I've got with Blue.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Thanks for the response! I should have asked this in my first post, but I’m also seeing that you no longer have Field of Ruin. If you get a chance I’d love to know the reason for the cut.
Hey wtwlf, I really appreciate all the content you’ve put out over the years.
How have you liked persist combo in your cube (especially as compared to other supported combo decks?) I was contemplating adding persist combo to my cube and had few questions about how to implement it:
1. How many sac-outlets, persist creatures, and meliria/vizier effects would you run to support the combo at 540? Would something like 4-4-4 be enough, (along with additional creature tutors) or is one part of the combo more important than the others and should receive greater redundancy.
2. Does it make sense to support persist and not aristocrats or vis-versa? (I guess I’m mostly thinking about the roll of blood artist style effects here: are they necessary for persist combo to work, and are they good enough in sacrifice themed decks in cubes without any persist support?)
3: Are any of the cards you’ve used in your cube to support the combo significantly less valuable than the others? (If I include the combo I’d probably trim cards from those you’ve included and I’d love to know for example which of the meliria/vizier/unicorn effects are most important to include. Are finks, redcap, putrid goblin, and masticore the best persist creatures, with clique and blunderbuss as filler? Are the sac outlets with built in kill conditions more important than the one-drop black creatures?)
Sorry for the number of unfocused questions, I’d love any insight you have on any of them. Thanks!
I've loved the persist combo. It really adds some depth to creature decks, and there's combos all over the place.
1. The exact number will vary a lot from group to group. Too much for me to know without playtesting it at each specific size. Depending on how independently playable your group considers each piece to be, they might be more contested in one group than another. Draft format matters too, as does playgroup preference, hate-drafting tendencies and everything else. Too much variance for me to be able to put a number on it.
2. Aristocrats and Persist Combo play hand in hand, and they share a lot of tools. They can each work independently from one another just fine, but it's more economical to support both and share resources. Persist combo doesn't need Blood Artists. Aristocrats doesn't need altars. But supporting both at the same time will add depth and consistency to each deck, so I would recommend it.
3. Well, the ones that win on the spot are more valuable than the engines that need another card. So Finks/Redcap are tbe best persist creatures, and Dementia/Bombardment/Station are the best sac outlets. After that, prioritize the ones that are cheaper. Add the more expensive ones last. But I've been pleasantly surprised with all the cards; they've been valuable in more than just Persist Combo decks. The enablers that add +1/+1 counters are more valuable than the ones that prevent the -1/-1 counters because they're playable in more decks (but they also tend to cost more mana). Luminous Broodmoth will help this too, since it's another universally playable persist enabler (maybe the strongest one?).
The best change I've made for my cube recently has been getting white involved in more combo shells. It has really reinvigorated the color. And there's a LOT of sacrifice combos in white.
That’s super helpful! I think I’ll try it out and tune it over time to see how things feel. My main reason for wanting to include the combo is that white and particularly selesnya have felt kind of stale and underwhelming, particularly in the powered iteration of my cube where midrange is fairly mediocre; that’s great to hear that it’s worked well as a combo support color!
That’s super helpful! I think I’ll try it out and tune it over time to see how things feel. My main reason for wanting to include the combo is that white and particularly selesnya have felt kind of stale and underwhelming, particularly in the powered iteration of my cube where midrange is fairly mediocre; that’s great to hear that it’s worked well as a combo support color!
There are so many combos in those colors once you decide to explore them. It really adds a lot of depth to those colors. Good luck!
Since I'll be adding Broodmoth, I'm considering supporting Persist combo. I'm adding Woe Strider and probably Goblin Bombardment. Which of the colorless pieces do you like the best? Which ones play best outside of the Persist combo deck? At 465 cards, do you even think there's enough room?
It's going to be hard at 465 without a serious retooling of the cube. 540 is the spot where there's likely enough realistic openings to get the combo to work consistently without sacrificing too many other critical cards.
The spell eating delve whale looks pretty cool, but my tempo decks aren't delver-style/spell-heavy focussed enough to make full use of it, I don't think.
I'm kinda to see pod go.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Benalish Marshal -> Thraben Doomsayer
Linvala, Keeper of Silence -> Felidar Guardian
Eternal Dragon -> Journey to Nowhere
Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis -> Parallax Wave
Enclave Cryptologist -> Intruder Alarm
Vampire Nighthawk -> Bloodline Keeper
Avalanche Riders -> Krenko, Mob Boss
Embercleave -> Impact Tremors
Desolation Angel -> Corpse Knight
The Royal Scions -> Saheeli Rai
(Najeela, the Blade-Blossom moved to Red) Squee, Goblin Nabob -> Aminatou, the Fateshifter
(Golos, Tireless Pilgrim moved to Colorless) Lodestone Golem -> Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Lotus Bloom -> Altar of the Brood
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
It seems really odd that you're taking out Vannifar but putting in Intruder Alarm?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I was wondering since you took out Enclave Cryptologist.. Was it too slow for you or unpopular? I've not had many drafts with it in play to the point I think I'm keeping it because it's the only 1CMC creature I've got with Blue.
I like Cryptologist quite a bit still, but blue's cuts are agonizing.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
You could make a strong argument that:
Gitaxian Probe
Spellskite
Phyrexian Metamorph
should be moved to colorless rather than blue.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/817096-set-p-review-my-top-20-ikoria-lair-of-behemoths
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
How have you liked persist combo in your cube (especially as compared to other supported combo decks?) I was contemplating adding persist combo to my cube and had few questions about how to implement it:
1. How many sac-outlets, persist creatures, and meliria/vizier effects would you run to support the combo at 540? Would something like 4-4-4 be enough, (along with additional creature tutors) or is one part of the combo more important than the others and should receive greater redundancy.
2. Does it make sense to support persist and not aristocrats or vis-versa? (I guess I’m mostly thinking about the roll of blood artist style effects here: are they necessary for persist combo to work, and are they good enough in sacrifice themed decks in cubes without any persist support?)
3: Are any of the cards you’ve used in your cube to support the combo significantly less valuable than the others? (If I include the combo I’d probably trim cards from those you’ve included and I’d love to know for example which of the meliria/vizier/unicorn effects are most important to include. Are finks, redcap, putrid goblin, and masticore the best persist creatures, with clique and blunderbuss as filler? Are the sac outlets with built in kill conditions more important than the one-drop black creatures?)
Sorry for the number of unfocused questions, I’d love any insight you have on any of them. Thanks!
I've loved the persist combo. It really adds some depth to creature decks, and there's combos all over the place.
1. The exact number will vary a lot from group to group. Too much for me to know without playtesting it at each specific size. Depending on how independently playable your group considers each piece to be, they might be more contested in one group than another. Draft format matters too, as does playgroup preference, hate-drafting tendencies and everything else. Too much variance for me to be able to put a number on it.
2. Aristocrats and Persist Combo play hand in hand, and they share a lot of tools. They can each work independently from one another just fine, but it's more economical to support both and share resources. Persist combo doesn't need Blood Artists. Aristocrats doesn't need altars. But supporting both at the same time will add depth and consistency to each deck, so I would recommend it.
3. Well, the ones that win on the spot are more valuable than the engines that need another card. So Finks/Redcap are tbe best persist creatures, and Dementia/Bombardment/Station are the best sac outlets. After that, prioritize the ones that are cheaper. Add the more expensive ones last. But I've been pleasantly surprised with all the cards; they've been valuable in more than just Persist Combo decks. The enablers that add +1/+1 counters are more valuable than the ones that prevent the -1/-1 counters because they're playable in more decks (but they also tend to cost more mana). Luminous Broodmoth will help this too, since it's another universally playable persist enabler (maybe the strongest one?).
The best change I've made for my cube recently has been getting white involved in more combo shells. It has really reinvigorated the color. And there's a LOT of sacrifice combos in white.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
It's in the 3rd post of this OP under "CUBE NOTES" and it's also my pinned tweet on Twitter.
There are so many combos in those colors once you decide to explore them. It really adds a lot of depth to those colors. Good luck!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
370 Powered Cube on Cubetutor (it's not always up to date because I primarily use Drive).
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!