I'm convinced to test Awakening Zone in my cube. wtwlf, would you mind checking out my cube tutor list and suggesting a cut? I'm considering Basking Rootwalla or Vinelasher Kudzu. Boon Satyr may seem like the obvious cut, but it's still a sexy new card in my book so it's not on the chopping block just yet.
Ya, I'd go with Basking Rootwalla or Deglamer, unless you know you need the extra disenchant effect.
Frantic Search wasn't a great tempo card for us when we played it, more of a combo/reanimator card. But I do like that card; I'd never count it out forever.
Snap is decent, but I prefer my bounce to come with card parity in the cube. Silent Departure is a good tempo bounce choice if you're looking for another card to fill that role.
Frantic Search wasn't a great tempo card for us when we played it, more of a combo/reanimator card. But I do like that card; I'd never count it out forever.
Snap is decent, but I prefer my bounce to come with card parity in the cube. Silent Departure is a good tempo bounce choice if you're looking for another card to fill that role.
No problem. It's a good offensive bounce spell if you're looking for that kind of effect. And in a U-heavy tempo list, Withdraw can be back-breaking on some occasions.
I haven't gotten to cube in a while so I went ahead and drafted your list on CubeTutor. I feel like I didn't draft optimally, and now I can't decide how to build this deck. How would you (anybody) build this deck?
I haven't gotten to cube in a while so I went ahead and drafted your list on CubeTutor. I feel like I didn't draft optimally, and now I can't decide how to build this deck. How would you (anybody) build this deck?
Your build looks pretty good. I might take Ajani and put it in the sideboard in favor of Flames of the Firebrand, and I think I'd drop Spear of the Heliod for Mirran Crusader.
With only 15 lands and both Armageddons, I'd probably drop Cursed Scroll in favor of another business spell (maybe the Soltari) because long-term activations will be a problem.
Your build looks pretty good. I might take Ajani and put it in the sideboard in favor of Flames of the Firebrand, and I think I'd drop Spear of the Heliod for Mirran Crusader.
With only 15 lands and both Armageddons, I'd probably drop Cursed Scroll in favor of another business spell (maybe the Soltari) because long-term activations will be a problem.
Nice deck!
Yeah, the 3-drop slot was weird, not to mention the glut of 2-drops. I wanted both 'geddons, but otherwise the 3-drops feel like the curve-toppers. Would've liked a Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning; oh well. Good point on the Scroll; I've just auto-jammed it in my aggro decks since 1997.
Hey wtwlf123, just wanted to stop in and say I'm a big fan of your cube. I've shamelessly stolen your entire list, and only need 24 cards to complete it. I'm trying to decide what my next purchase should be, so I figured I'd get your opinion. I'm trying to decide between Imperial Recruiter, Burning of Xinye, and Rishidan Port. I'm leaning towards Burning of Xinye because I'd like to give Wildfire.dec as much help as I can, but any thoughts you had would be appreciated. Thanks!
Ya, Burning of Xinye is probably the most important of those cards simply because it doubles the tools for the Wildfire deck.
Port is a great card for all aggro and tempo decks, and Recruiter tutors for a lot of cards in the cube, and really helps out the BB/r Pox/Stax deck.
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Having that second Wildfire is really nice if you have drafters that like drafting that deck. Or Ravages for the aggro players. For those that don't proxy, it is rough getting some of the P3K cards. I was happy to see some of them get reprinted in the Commander product; it would be sweet if some of the P3K cube cards similarly would get reprinted in a future product.
Edit: I haven't tried the Master of Waves/blue devotion package yet. I tried drafting it in your list and ended up with this deck. It seems like it could be fun, with all the Elemental tokens from Pyromancer, Tempt, and Master of Waves pumping them all. I had a hard time deciding on the 22nd and 23rd cards in this deck. Is this the kind of deck that your group gets with Master of Waves? Seems like it needs more blue 1-2-drops. One of these times I'd like to try it with Opposition too.
I'd worry about how creature light that deck is. If you don't hit either of your token producers you basically have a lot of draw/counters/burn. Which will only suffice for so long. I'd also add Hellspark Elemental since it's an elemental and combos with the Master in addition to getting in some much needed early damage in a creature-light deck.
A lot of draw/counters/burn is a deck archetype in itself. When you have a certain threshold of X-for-1's you end up just burying your opponent in raw card advantage. In my early years of playing Magic, I thought the draw-go and Counter-Phoenix decks that Randy Buehler played were some of the coolest decks ever. Stalking Stones a single Rainbow Efreet and an avalanche of card advantage were good enough win conditions.
That said, I did think about how it is more or less 11 creatures (counting Control Magic and Tempt with Vengeance because they basically are creatures), but then I figured with Recall, Brainstorm, Ponder, looting with Cryptologist and Charm, draws from Jace and maybe Ice, I should be able to dig into a decent chunk of the deck and find some creatures. I did think about the Hellspark, but it seems like more of a burn spell with flashback in a creature-light deck; wouldn't you want a permanent body? I don't know, what would you cut for the Hellspark?
Basically I figure the deck has a bunch of X-for-1's that will give me time to dig into one of my token engines, and possibly set up a big combo turn with Hellrider and a bunch of tokens. Seems like Hellspark would be more at home in a curve-out aggro deck that has 2-power 1-drops. I'd also feel better with more than just one fetchland or other shuffle effect for the Brainstorm.
I've been using these CubeTutor drafts to try drafting decks that I don't usually draft. Having even 10 creatures in a deck is more than my average; I usually take mana rocks/fixing really high and end up with some kind of Wildfire or Upheaval deck, or a control deck that uses planeswalkers or a typical control finisher as the win condition, or a reanimator/Tinker style deck. I don't like drafting "fair" decks, except for mono-red. Sulfuric Vortex FTW!
Anyway, hope its cool to have more discussion on this thread! I'm learning a lot.
Being creature light in this deck is not that much worrying IMO, and if it was the case Hellspark Elemental is not the creature you would look to. It is indeed a burn spell with flashback.
I think the creature count looks pretty good, honestly. With the counters and removal, and bounce, and 10+ creatures of your own, it's pretty solid. I'd be happy to take that deck to the field as a UU/R tempo build.
I probably would've played the Black Vise over the Cryptologist. It gives me early game pressure, and works well with the bounce package.
I searched your thread to look at the thoughts on Geralf's Messenger, but it seems like most of the talk was inconclusive ideas from testing him out. I'm quite surprised on current inclusion given how narrow he is thanks to the restrictive mana cost. Has he impressed you enough to earn his keep as an incentive to play mono black?
Even outside of mono black, he's good enough in black decks that can cast him (even if it's later than turn 3). BB/x Pox/Stax decks, for example, make really good use of this guy. I'll play him in any black deck with enough sources of black to cast him. I mean, it's 7 power and 4 direct lifeloss for 3 mana.
Even outside of mono black, he's good enough in black decks that can cast him (even if it's later than turn 3). BB/x Pox/Stax decks, for example, make really good use of this guy. I'll play him in any black deck with enough sources of black to cast him. I mean, it's 7 power and 4 direct lifeloss for 3 mana.
It is in the Gravecrawler Pox deck. This isn't a plain aggro build. Thus why the other great 1-drops are on the outside, and only the recursion/GY based ones are present.
Even outside of mono black, he's good enough in black decks that can cast him (even if it's later than turn 3). BB/x Pox/Stax decks, for example, make really good use of this guy. I'll play him in any black deck with enough sources of black to cast him. I mean, it's 7 power and 4 direct lifeloss for 3 mana.
Hmm, I see. I guess when we tried running him, the B/R decks ended up being skewed more towards red rather than black which made him much harder to cast in comparison to the deck you gave as an example. I'd be willing to give him another try, but he was a consistent 15th pick for us.
Ya, I'd go with Basking Rootwalla or Deglamer, unless you know you need the extra disenchant effect.
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Since you are on the blue tempo plan, have you thought bout bringing in (or back) Frantic Search and or/ Snap.
I was thinking bout giving those a shot (my cube being at 500)
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Snap is decent, but I prefer my bounce to come with card parity in the cube. Silent Departure is a good tempo bounce choice if you're looking for another card to fill that role.
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Cool, appreciate the thoughts as usual
thanks for the heads up on Silent Departure !
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No problem. It's a good offensive bounce spell if you're looking for that kind of effect. And in a U-heavy tempo list, Withdraw can be back-breaking on some occasions.
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I haven't gotten to cube in a while so I went ahead and drafted your list on CubeTutor. I feel like I didn't draft optimally, and now I can't decide how to build this deck. How would you (anybody) build this deck?
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Your build looks pretty good. I might take Ajani and put it in the sideboard in favor of Flames of the Firebrand, and I think I'd drop Spear of the Heliod for Mirran Crusader.
With only 15 lands and both Armageddons, I'd probably drop Cursed Scroll in favor of another business spell (maybe the Soltari) because long-term activations will be a problem.
Nice deck!
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Yeah, the 3-drop slot was weird, not to mention the glut of 2-drops. I wanted both 'geddons, but otherwise the 3-drops feel like the curve-toppers. Would've liked a Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning; oh well. Good point on the Scroll; I've just auto-jammed it in my aggro decks since 1997.
Thanks for the input!
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Cheers
Yep! I was a huge World of Darkness fan when I created my first online handle, and it just kinda stuck with me.
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Ya, Burning of Xinye is probably the most important of those cards simply because it doubles the tools for the Wildfire deck.
Port is a great card for all aggro and tempo decks, and Recruiter tutors for a lot of cards in the cube, and really helps out the BB/r Pox/Stax deck.
After you've been drafting the list a while, please stop in with feedback! And feel free to ask any questions you come up with regarding card selection and the role(s) certain cards play. I'm happy to discuss cube 24/7.
Cheers, and happy cubing.
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Edit: I haven't tried the Master of Waves/blue devotion package yet. I tried drafting it in your list and ended up with this deck. It seems like it could be fun, with all the Elemental tokens from Pyromancer, Tempt, and Master of Waves pumping them all. I had a hard time deciding on the 22nd and 23rd cards in this deck. Is this the kind of deck that your group gets with Master of Waves? Seems like it needs more blue 1-2-drops. One of these times I'd like to try it with Opposition too.
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A lot of draw/counters/burn is a deck archetype in itself. When you have a certain threshold of X-for-1's you end up just burying your opponent in raw card advantage. In my early years of playing Magic, I thought the draw-go and Counter-Phoenix decks that Randy Buehler played were some of the coolest decks ever. Stalking Stones a single Rainbow Efreet and an avalanche of card advantage were good enough win conditions.
That said, I did think about how it is more or less 11 creatures (counting Control Magic and Tempt with Vengeance because they basically are creatures), but then I figured with Recall, Brainstorm, Ponder, looting with Cryptologist and Charm, draws from Jace and maybe Ice, I should be able to dig into a decent chunk of the deck and find some creatures. I did think about the Hellspark, but it seems like more of a burn spell with flashback in a creature-light deck; wouldn't you want a permanent body? I don't know, what would you cut for the Hellspark?
Basically I figure the deck has a bunch of X-for-1's that will give me time to dig into one of my token engines, and possibly set up a big combo turn with Hellrider and a bunch of tokens. Seems like Hellspark would be more at home in a curve-out aggro deck that has 2-power 1-drops. I'd also feel better with more than just one fetchland or other shuffle effect for the Brainstorm.
I've been using these CubeTutor drafts to try drafting decks that I don't usually draft. Having even 10 creatures in a deck is more than my average; I usually take mana rocks/fixing really high and end up with some kind of Wildfire or Upheaval deck, or a control deck that uses planeswalkers or a typical control finisher as the win condition, or a reanimator/Tinker style deck. I don't like drafting "fair" decks, except for mono-red. Sulfuric Vortex FTW!
Anyway, hope its cool to have more discussion on this thread! I'm learning a lot.
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I probably would've played the Black Vise over the Cryptologist. It gives me early game pressure, and works well with the bounce package.
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Something like this: http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/62821
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Is Carnophage better than Tormented Hero?
It is in the Gravecrawler Pox deck. This isn't a plain aggro build. Thus why the other great 1-drops are on the outside, and only the recursion/GY based ones are present.
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Hmm, I see. I guess when we tried running him, the B/R decks ended up being skewed more towards red rather than black which made him much harder to cast in comparison to the deck you gave as an example. I'd be willing to give him another try, but he was a consistent 15th pick for us.
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I probably lack some of the most important stax/pox bits, more of a minor subtheme.
Anyhow, I was just curious how he was performing for you. Thanks for the responses!
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