It can also be infinite ETBs but either way it's a three card combo. Nah, just throwing in random thoughts don't mind me. WGD doesn't belong in cube honestly. Why would anyone want WGD when they can just reanimate Griselbrand :/
If there was a little more redundancy with it, I would consider it. But it's a 1-shot effect, so it turns into a 3-card combo that only has one way to get it started, and it doesn't do much of anything on its own.
Cool card, neat combo for constructed, but my gut says it's still a miss ...even with the ETB/LTB matters cards in the cube.
Hi wtwlf123, thanks for all the effort you put into this cube.
I'm running an old list of it from when it was at 540 cards (I think it's pre-ELD), and I'm thinking about making some tweaks. I'm thinking about adding some of your changes to support aristocrats, flicker, maybe splinter twin combo, and adding in some newer cards, but without supporting storm. (I play with some newer players, and I think very few of them would draft it or like it being played against them).
Do you think it's possible to support those archetypes at 540 without dramatically changing the cube, or do you recommend keeping them out unless I increase the cube size? I mostly play with 3-4 players, so I think going to 540 could present challenges.
It depends. A lot of the new strategies require a lot of real estate to function at their full potential. I know it's possible, but I'm unsure if it would have too big of an impact on the balance of the rest of the cube or not.
Looks like you are no longer doing the Change Log. That makes me sad, although it also looks like you haven't been for a while. I guess I need to join the CubeCobra crowd now.
The deck has been coming together really nicely in my mock drafts. If you follow me on Twitter, I posted a couple of decklists that both look really nice.
That might be enough for me to consider it consistent, but are any of those other cards (outside of Solemnity) useful outside of Depths combo? I mean, Hexmage is okay, but the other ones are kinda a stretch, no?
Vampire Hexmage, IMO, is still a very playable/interesting cube card. It helps Thing in the Ice, too. Quoting Charlotte Sable, a Level 3 Judge, “It will transform the next time you cast an instant or sorcery. The transformation isn’t contingent on actually removing the last counter, just that there are no counters on it after you try to remove one.” (So if I have Thing in the Ice out, I use Vampire Hexmage to clear it off, will it transform the next time I cast an instant or sorcery or does it require there be a counter on it to remove to be able to do so?)
Very interesting... I will talk it over with my group and see if it's something we're interested in trying.
Btw, another card that’s good with Time Vault is Paradox Engine. Ever considered its applications in a combo-centric environment? It could go infinite with Sprout Swarm, and goes very well with Urza, Lord High Artificer. And maybe cards like Isochron Scepter. Oh, and, of course, Storm decks! Just to name a few.
Vampire Hexmage, IMO, is still a very playable/interesting cube card. It helps Thing in the Ice, too. Quoting Charlotte Sable, a Level 3 Judge, “It will transform the next time you cast an instant or sorcery. The transformation isn’t contingent on actually removing the last counter, just that there are no counters on it after you try to remove one.” (So if I have Thing in the Ice out, I use Vampire Hexmage to clear it off, will it transform the next time I cast an instant or sorcery or does it require there be a counter on it to remove to be able to do so?)
Dark Depths itself could MAYBE be a uncounterable long-term ramp payoff? Maybe? Or infinite mana payoff?
That is actually very interesting, I never thought about Time Vault and Mirage Mirror used like that.
Vampire Hexmage has been a "borderline card" for me for her ability to answer planeswalkers.
I've been reluctant about dark depths, but I never thought about the card as as an infinite mana sink.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Ya, the combo and the support cards are relatively narrow, but they're all narrow in multiple ways, if that makes any sense.
I've thought about the Depths Combo in my cube now. I think I'll stick to Depths, Hexmage, Mirage mirror and no thespian stage.
1. HexMage with incidental planeswalker hate
2. Depths 50% combo/ 50% heavy mana sink.
3. Mirage Mirror - Combo with Depths/ Decent card for Urza based artifact decks.
I'm going to be assembling the two card cube combos and coming up with all these cool overlaps.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Cool card, neat combo for constructed, but my gut says it's still a miss ...even with the ETB/LTB matters cards in the cube.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'm running an old list of it from when it was at 540 cards (I think it's pre-ELD), and I'm thinking about making some tweaks. I'm thinking about adding some of your changes to support aristocrats, flicker, maybe splinter twin combo, and adding in some newer cards, but without supporting storm. (I play with some newer players, and I think very few of them would draft it or like it being played against them).
Do you think it's possible to support those archetypes at 540 without dramatically changing the cube, or do you recommend keeping them out unless I increase the cube size? I mostly play with 3-4 players, so I think going to 540 could present challenges.
Best of luck with the tinkering!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Solemnity
Vampire Hexmage
Mirage Mirror
and
Thespian's Stage
That might be enough for me to consider it consistent, but are any of those other cards (outside of Solemnity) useful outside of Depths combo? I mean, Hexmage is okay, but the other ones are kinda a stretch, no?
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Vampire Hexmage, IMO, is still a very playable/interesting cube card. It helps Thing in the Ice, too. Quoting Charlotte Sable, a Level 3 Judge, “It will transform the next time you cast an instant or sorcery. The transformation isn’t contingent on actually removing the last counter, just that there are no counters on it after you try to remove one.” (So if I have Thing in the Ice out, I use Vampire Hexmage to clear it off, will it transform the next time I cast an instant or sorcery or does it require there be a counter on it to remove to be able to do so?)
Thespian's Stage this I don’t think is playable, though.
Dark Depths itself could MAYBE be a uncounterable long-term ramp payoff? Maybe? Or infinite mana payoff?
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Btw, another card that’s good with Time Vault is Paradox Engine. Ever considered its applications in a combo-centric environment? It could go infinite with Sprout Swarm, and goes very well with Urza, Lord High Artificer. And maybe cards like Isochron Scepter. Oh, and, of course, Storm decks! Just to name a few.
I'll think on the Engine for a bit.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I’m curious about Staff of Domination. What are the decks that want it?
Edit: Wait. I think I see the potential. How did it perform?
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
That is actually very interesting, I never thought about Time Vault and Mirage Mirror used like that.
Vampire Hexmage has been a "borderline card" for me for her ability to answer planeswalkers.
I've been reluctant about dark depths, but I never thought about the card as as an infinite mana sink.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I've thought about the Depths Combo in my cube now. I think I'll stick to Depths, Hexmage, Mirage mirror and no thespian stage.
1. HexMage with incidental planeswalker hate
2. Depths 50% combo/ 50% heavy mana sink.
3. Mirage Mirror - Combo with Depths/ Decent card for Urza based artifact decks.
I'm going to be assembling the two card cube combos and coming up with all these cool overlaps.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i