@eruci: Welcome and thanks for posting! Sword of fire and ice is a relatively high pick. All the other swords are typically all mid-pack pickups. They're good in the right decks/situations, but they're not overpowered cards.
@resarox: Thanks for posting! You're right about one thing, and that's that "powered vs. unpowered" is an antiquated metric for measuring cube experience expectations. My next major article will be about this very subject. There are better questions to ask regarding cube designs that yeild more valuable information.
As for your second question, it might be possible to attempt to homogenize the card powerlevel in a cube, but I've never seen it done correctly. There are always better cards. And there are always cards that are so much better than the bottom tier of cards that there are clear p1p1 choices. It makes for a neat thought experiment, but I have a hard time imagining it both working in practice AND stll having an environment that's intriguing to both draft and play.
I'll take a stab at a prediction: you value color fixing quite high (running all Signets, 5 lands per Guild, etc) and though there's lots of fixing, you're extremely cautious about the inclusion of cards with semi-difficult casting costs. In the end, I think you'll swap...if not for a few months for testing.
It took quite a lot of statistics to get the point across to my playgroup as well: being easy to cast on-curve is 90% of what matters with the Mystic Snake card 'archetype', and going from 2 to 3 power is usually irrelevant.
... And to be frank, I'm of the opinion that even Snake is bordering on too difficult to cast these days. Still haven't seen anything crazy to push it out in this set though.
Agreed on all accounts. I do like the WWBB Wrath though, since despite the card being about 12% harder to cast than Day of Judgment in an deck ...4cc Wraths are just so powerful that it might be worth it.
Not only would it be a huge task to assign cards to tiers, but powerlevel is so subjective that there would never be consensus anyways.
I have a different method in mind though.
Hello, I have a question not specifically related to your cube, please don't get mad at me
I have a 360 old school cube (93-94, abu to fallen empires): do you think it's better to make 15 cards packs totally random, o to divide the cards into 2 tiers (more than that will be to difficult to manage, at least for me): I think to a tier 1 with p9s and other bombs. could it makes sense? and if yes, how should the tier1/tier2 proportion be in packs? 3/12?
Random. All cube packs should be 100% random all the time.
Agreed but my caveat is that sometimes when I want to test certain cards, I make sure they are in the pool. I don't manipulate the packs at all. It's just if I know we are drafting with 8 and need 360 cards, the cards I'm testing will be in that 360. Beyond that, always random.
Same as expected, except I'm going to test out Hydroid Krasis as well, since I don't have much to lose by giving it some extended testing time. is even more of a mess than I remember.
I've drafted your cube multiple times and I generally like the overall balance and curve (it must have taken years of tuning and I'm looking into your cube as a basis for building my cube) but I noticed a general lack in diversity among creature/ midrange archetypes.
Is this more of a move to fit your particular play group or is supporting a more diverse creature based archetypes adds too many constraints to splashing and slotting the same cards into other strategies
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I'm not sure what you mean by a "lack of diversity among creature/midrange archetypes".
If you mean that there's less of a pre-defined path, than yes. That is by design. The concept of interchangeable parts I've designed my cube around allows players to approach a draft before it starts and know that they can build aggro/tempo, midrange, control or an archetype-specific strategy in any color or combination of colors and have a chance of putting a successful deck together. It allows players to avoid the "archetype-carousel" and be more creative with their deckbuilding. And often, we see some really interesting and unique decks/plays because of it.
If you mean that there aren't enough different things to do, than I completely disagree with your assessment.
Ya, I don't know if I'd cut Nekrataal for Spawn personally. I like Spawn just fine and am playing it at 540, but I don't think I'd cut Nekrataal for it in a head-to-head competition between those two cards.
And ya, Desolation Angel is out for now, but it's never out for good.
i have been in the same both with nekrataal. The problem is Nekrataal is basically a third copy of a redundant effect. Spawn is probably the heaviest beater for it's mana cost, and black aggro has struggled in that regard (at least for us). it can get there, but always with another color doing the heavy lifting
Edit: maybe this discussion should be moved to this or that thread
It's more that I was hoping to be able to draft stuff like Xerox aggro, delirium/ threshold/ dredge aggro, ckmpany/ pod midrange rather than focusing more towards curve and color
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
The problem with that, is that once you focus in on a specific subset of aggro/midrange creature deck for a certain color combination, that becomes the only way you can draft that deck. If my Golgari creature decks are all delirium-based aggro decks, my Orzhov aggro decks suffer, because white can't contribute to that deck in the same way. Like I said before, my creature-centric theaters are built around interchangeable parts so my drafters aren't handcuffed to a specific archetype they can't navigate away from.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
As for your second question, it might be possible to attempt to homogenize the card powerlevel in a cube, but I've never seen it done correctly. There are always better cards. And there are always cards that are so much better than the bottom tier of cards that there are clear p1p1 choices. It makes for a neat thought experiment, but I have a hard time imagining it both working in practice AND stll having an environment that's intriguing to both draft and play.
Cheers, and happy cubing!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I have a different method in mind though.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'll take a stab at a prediction: you value color fixing quite high (running all Signets, 5 lands per Guild, etc) and though there's lots of fixing, you're extremely cautious about the inclusion of cards with semi-difficult casting costs. In the end, I think you'll swap...if not for a few months for testing.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
... And to be frank, I'm of the opinion that even Snake is bordering on too difficult to cast these days. Still haven't seen anything crazy to push it out in this set though.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/804289-set-p-review-my-top-20-ravnica-allegiance-cards
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Hello, I have a question not specifically related to your cube, please don't get mad at me
I have a 360 old school cube (93-94, abu to fallen empires): do you think it's better to make 15 cards packs totally random, o to divide the cards into 2 tiers (more than that will be to difficult to manage, at least for me): I think to a tier 1 with p9s and other bombs. could it makes sense? and if yes, how should the tier1/tier2 proportion be in packs? 3/12?
Thank you if you give me your opinion on this
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Agreed but my caveat is that sometimes when I want to test certain cards, I make sure they are in the pool. I don't manipulate the packs at all. It's just if I know we are drafting with 8 and need 360 cards, the cards I'm testing will be in that 360. Beyond that, always random.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Same as expected, except I'm going to test out Hydroid Krasis as well, since I don't have much to lose by giving it some extended testing time. is even more of a mess than I remember.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Is this more of a move to fit your particular play group or is supporting a more diverse creature based archetypes adds too many constraints to splashing and slotting the same cards into other strategies
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
If you mean that there's less of a pre-defined path, than yes. That is by design. The concept of interchangeable parts I've designed my cube around allows players to approach a draft before it starts and know that they can build aggro/tempo, midrange, control or an archetype-specific strategy in any color or combination of colors and have a chance of putting a successful deck together. It allows players to avoid the "archetype-carousel" and be more creative with their deckbuilding. And often, we see some really interesting and unique decks/plays because of it.
If you mean that there aren't enough different things to do, than I completely disagree with your assessment.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I like the changes. I think I have to cut Nekrataal to fit in Spawn, which is also sad. I never thought that card would leave the cube.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
And ya, Desolation Angel is out for now, but it's never out for good.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Edit: maybe this discussion should be moved to this or that thread
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!