This has happened multiple times now. The Bloodghast player tends to win. Seriously though you need to try harder to convince them Calibretto, it is very close to auto-include in any size cube status for me.
Well our cube is pretty much a 50/50 split between he and I as far as decision making is concerned. He gives me a little room and I give him a little room. I really can't explain his problem with Bloodghast. When I asked him what he thought of it he told me that he took it out of Vampires for underperforming and that he thinks it's bad. He also said he'd rather have any of our current black 2-drops over Bloodghast. I would personally like to try it in place of Black Knight.
Well our cube is pretty much a 50/50 split between he and I as far as decision making is concerned. He gives me a little room and I give him a little room. I really can't explain his problem with Bloodghast. When I asked him what he thought of it he told me that he took it out of Vampires for underperforming and that he thinks it's bad. He also said he'd rather have any of our current black 2-drops over Bloodghast. I would personally like to try it in place of Black Knight.
Actually I think you could use another 2 drop creature. Just let him pick something to pull for it for testing purposes. And as we all know, underperforming in a standard deck =/= bad in cube.
Also, what's the harm of testing it? Calibretto, ask your friend if you can run it for the next two or three drafts and see how it does. If it fails to perform, you can always switch back.
Glad folks approve of the Bloodghast change. I do like Grinning Demon, but it is the weakest of my black 4-drops.
Chain Lightning is obviously awesome but I wouldn't try too hard to get in Arc Lightning, it either needs to cost 1 less or be an instant. Still missing Chandra Ablaze however...
Chain Lightning is obviously awesome but I wouldn't try too hard to get in Arc Lightning, it either needs to cost 1 less or be an instant. Still missing Chandra Ablaze however...
I would. It can often be three for one card advantage and that's just ridiculous. More often than not it takes out two guys and even then it's still excellent. Arc Lightning should be a cube staple imo.
I would. It can often be three for one card advantage and that's just ridiculous. More often than not it takes out two guys and even then it's still excellent. Arc Lightning should be a cube staple imo.
It could be that is has had a poor showing for me because it hasn't seen enough play/been in bad matchups/drawn at the wrong time/etc. but it is very rare that I see it gain card advantage other than the shock a creature and ping you for 1. I've still got it in my cube so we'll see how it does in the next few play sessions.
Shock a creature and ping for one is still good, because it offers you the choice to perform other actions. And besides, you're now level on cards and up one threat and one twentieth of someone's life total.
Shock a creature and ping for one is still good, because it offers you the choice to perform other actions. And besides, you're now level on cards and up one threat and one twentieth of someone's life total.
But even in this scenerio you are probably only killing a 1 or 2 drop so you're still losing a bit of tempo. It's not that it never gets card advantage for me or I think it is bad, I just think there are slightly stronger cards that could be run. I've got 62 red cards and it is the 62nd best red card on my list IMO.
I'd go for either Genju of the Spires or Sneak Attack. Both cards failed to perform for us. Arc Lightning has been excellent.
I had high hopes for Sneak Attack, but I've only seen it really go to work once (in a deck with Kokusho, Woodfall Primus, and Bogardan Hellkite). Sadly, that is my likely pull. The genju is also not that fantastic, but I don't want to replace it with a 3-cc spell, as I feel red's average CC is too high as it is. I'll probably pull the genju when I get a Hellspark Elemental (which I can't belive I don't own). And I still need to make room for Chandra Ablaze when I acquire one.
I agree with Donald_McDonald, arc lightning is neither effecient or particularly awesome, I run 95 cards of each colour and it doesn't make my red list
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I'm really surprised at the dissent against Arc Lightning ITT. I've always considered it a Cube staple... being any one of a volcanic hammer, a 2 for 1 or, 3 for 1, or a shock and ping is great for three mana IMO.
And Hellspark Elemental is really good, that definitely makes the grade. It's not strictly card advantage, but it is efficient. You'd be surprised how often people forget about it being in your graveyard, particularly if you discarded it the first time.
I always felt arc lightning is below par, you really want 2~3 damage for 1 mana, 3 damage almost always for 2 mana unless its on something awesome like magma jet, and for 3 mana I really need 4 damage on the burn spell for me to feel good about it, thats why I don't like it, if you are just sweeping small guys red has much better options.
and yes, hellspark is awesome.
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Well, I've said how much I like Arc-Lightning before, but I'll say it again. I definitely think it's one of the top 10 red spells in my cube (not counting creatures). It just gets card advantage so many times it's not funny. Too often it's the red Ashes to Ashes without the 5 life drawback (occasionally it's even better than that). Sometimes it's only a one-for-one, but even then, I'm always happy to have that kind of flexability in my hand.
I don't think that Arc Lightning is a top 10 (or even top 20) red card, but I really like it. You can get 3 damage for 2 mana, but the ability to divide it between targets is really helpful. I 2-for 1 with Arc Lightning all the time... which is something you can never do with the other 3 or less CC burn spells. In order to get the same effect out of Rolling Thunder, it would cost 3RR, so 2R is a great discount for that effect.
I feel arc lightning misses out because it is a sorcery. That's the main reason it never makes my cube. I think I was actually playing violent eruption over it for a bit until it got cut as well. You could consider playing volcanic fallout as a replacement if you aren't already playing it.
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I don't like Volcanic Fallout. Arc Lightning only hits targets I want it to, and I can kill 3 toughness creatures with it. I'm not looking for a burn spell that kills my own aggro creatures. I have better sweepers I can use to fill Fallout's role instead. Arc Lightning also only has 1 red mana in its cost.
And yes, Fire off of Fire // Ice can 2-for-1 as well, but only against 2 1/1 creatures. I can kill a Savannah Lionsand a Knight of Meadowgrain on my turn 3 with Arc Lightning, which is a nice thing to do against a common start for the white player. Especially when I want to be able to swing with both my 1 and 2 drops on T3 (which I do).
I don't like Volcanic Fallout. Arc Lightning only hits targets I want it to, and I can kill 3 toughness creatures with it. I'm not looking for a burn spell that kills my own aggro creatures. I have better sweepers I can use to fill Fallout's role instead. Arc Lightning also only has 1 red mana in its cost.
And yes, Fire off of Fire // Ice can 2-for-1 as well, but only against 2 1/1 creatures. I can kill a Savannah Lionsand a Knight of Meadowgrain on my turn 3 with Arc Lightning, which is a nice thing to do against a common start for the white player. Especially when I want to be able to swing with both my 1 and 2 drops on T3 (which I do).
Listen to this man. He speaks the truth. This is exactly why Arc Lightning finds a home in my cube. Plus it's almost always two for one card advantage and when it's not it's either three for one card advantage, death to an X/2 and ping for 1, or death to an X/3. All of which is easily worth 3 mana, even at sorcery speed.
Just posting that I have made the changes discussed over the last few pages, except I haven't brought in Arc Lightning yet. So, here's what's happened:
I also want to run Rolling Thunder, so other than Sneak Attack, I think the cut for it is Genju of the Spires. Comments? Oh, and please let's not reopen the Rolling Thunder vs. Fireball debate.
Sneak Attack got cut because it only worked every sixth draft or so. Genju of the Spires lost his place in the same sweep, but it was really good, when it was in the cube. The Genju is on my "Maybe-back"-List.
Ergo: I'd cut Sneak Attack in my cube.
I also want to run Rolling Thunder, so other than Sneak Attack, I think the cut for it is Genju of the Spires. Comments? Oh, and please let's not reopen the Rolling Thunder vs. Fireball debate.
Other than Sneak Attack, I think Genju of the Spires is an excellent cut for Rolling Thunder. Total upgrade, imo.
Because for virtually the same thing Common > Mythic. I'm running Rolling Thunder in my cube now with plans on replacing it with Comet Storm if my crew happens to open one.
This has happened multiple times now. The Bloodghast player tends to win. Seriously though you need to try harder to convince them Calibretto, it is very close to auto-include in any size cube status for me.
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Actually I think you could use another 2 drop creature. Just let him pick something to pull for it for testing purposes. And as we all know, underperforming in a standard deck =/= bad in cube.
@rantipole: Sorry for hijacking your thread with talk of Bloodghast.
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Glad folks approve of the Bloodghast change. I do like Grinning Demon, but it is the weakest of my black 4-drops.
I'm switching out Beacon of Destruction for Chain Lightning. Now, I also want to fit in Arc Lightning. What do you suggest I cut? I'd prefer to cut a spell rather than a creature and I'd like to retain Seal of Fire. Ideas?
Edit: @Calibretto: No problem. It reinforced that I'm making the right move with the critter.
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Chain Lightning is obviously awesome but I wouldn't try too hard to get in Arc Lightning, it either needs to cost 1 less or be an instant. Still missing Chandra Ablaze however...
This x 10. Sneak Attack is out my Cube too come WWK. Arc Lightning is 2 for 1 or even 3 for 1 CA.
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I would. It can often be three for one card advantage and that's just ridiculous. More often than not it takes out two guys and even then it's still excellent. Arc Lightning should be a cube staple imo.
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It could be that is has had a poor showing for me because it hasn't seen enough play/been in bad matchups/drawn at the wrong time/etc. but it is very rare that I see it gain card advantage other than the shock a creature and ping you for 1. I've still got it in my cube so we'll see how it does in the next few play sessions.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
But even in this scenerio you are probably only killing a 1 or 2 drop so you're still losing a bit of tempo. It's not that it never gets card advantage for me or I think it is bad, I just think there are slightly stronger cards that could be run. I've got 62 red cards and it is the 62nd best red card on my list IMO.
I had high hopes for Sneak Attack, but I've only seen it really go to work once (in a deck with Kokusho, Woodfall Primus, and Bogardan Hellkite). Sadly, that is my likely pull. The genju is also not that fantastic, but I don't want to replace it with a 3-cc spell, as I feel red's average CC is too high as it is. I'll probably pull the genju when I get a Hellspark Elemental (which I can't belive I don't own). And I still need to make room for Chandra Ablaze when I acquire one.
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And Hellspark Elemental is really good, that definitely makes the grade. It's not strictly card advantage, but it is efficient. You'd be surprised how often people forget about it being in your graveyard, particularly if you discarded it the first time.
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and yes, hellspark is awesome.
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And yes, Fire off of Fire // Ice can 2-for-1 as well, but only against 2 1/1 creatures. I can kill a Savannah Lions and a Knight of Meadowgrain on my turn 3 with Arc Lightning, which is a nice thing to do against a common start for the white player. Especially when I want to be able to swing with both my 1 and 2 drops on T3 (which I do).
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Listen to this man. He speaks the truth. This is exactly why Arc Lightning finds a home in my cube. Plus it's almost always two for one card advantage and when it's not it's either three for one card advantage, death to an X/2 and ping for 1, or death to an X/3. All of which is easily worth 3 mana, even at sorcery speed.
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-Grinning Demon
+Bloodghast
-Beacon of Destruction
+Chain Lightning
-Verdant Force
+Lotus Cobra
I also want to run Rolling Thunder, so other than Sneak Attack, I think the cut for it is Genju of the Spires. Comments? Oh, and please let's not reopen the Rolling Thunder vs. Fireball debate.
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Genju of the Spires lost his place in the same sweep, but it was really good, when it was in the cube. The Genju is on my "Maybe-back"-List.
Ergo: I'd cut Sneak Attack in my cube.
BUT: Why not Comet Storm?
Other than Sneak Attack, I think Genju of the Spires is an excellent cut for Rolling Thunder. Total upgrade, imo.
Because for virtually the same thing Common > Mythic. I'm running Rolling Thunder in my cube now with plans on replacing it with Comet Storm if my crew happens to open one.
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