Honestly, I haven't been able to cube much since adding him. The last time we drafted, we did a rotisserie draft and it wasn't drafted. Then, the pandemic hit and we haven't cubed since. In theory I like it a lot in aggro and it's good in any deck that wants cards in the graveyard. Sorry I don't have more feedback.
Honestly, I haven't been able to cube much since adding him. The last time we drafted, we did a rotisserie draft and it wasn't drafted. Then, the pandemic hit and we haven't cubed since. In theory I like it a lot in aggro and it's good in any deck that wants cards in the graveyard. Sorry I don't have more feedback.
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rant
Not a problem!
Thank you for the theory feedback, can't wait to get practice feedback when virus leaves!
I think Bloodbraid Elf is more easily replaceable than Rakdos Cackler for sure. Cackler isn't specifically critical, though, if there's enough support elsewhere. Maybe making Skinrender another 1-drop for black, and something similar for red if needed?
I was looking at adding at least one more 1-drop to replace Cackler, probably in red. I wouldn't rule out one in black too. The cuts are giving me fits but I want to see what the persist combo brings to the table. It will be nice to have white, green, and red have combo deck. Blue has Tinker and Black has reanimator, which can function like combo decks sometimes.
I'm curious what your persist combo package looks like and number of slots for each effect. I like the idea of giving white another interesting deck to contribute to (since reanimator/cheat/ramp are supported almost entirely across the other colors), but it's hard to imagine fitting anything substantial in at 360. I technically support it now via Kitchen Finks, Luminous Broodmoth, and Goblin Bombardment, all included for other reasons, but it's unlikely to ever occur.
Big overhaul of my cube is finally here. Most of these changes were made to support the persist combo deck, which takes up some serious real estate. Some good cards are getting benched to see if I can make this work. To bring in enough cards for persist, I'm also adding some hybrids. Each color is donating a slot to a hybrid card so I can run enough Persist creatures. These changes do not reflect M21, but from that set I thin, only Barrin and Hallowblade are coming in.
What we do is count hybrids as 1/2 for each color. Normally it works out where you can pair cards to make it add up.
So, for instance, Cackler and Redcap count as 1 red and 1 black while Militant and Finks count as 1 green and 1 white card. These slots are treated normally as mono-color slots and are independent of whatever your quota is for gold cards.
Just reading through that list of cuts, I can tell you put a lot of thought into the cards you chose here. You certainly cut some good cards, but it's hard not to at 450. With that said, though, I don't see any cut here that feels like blasphemy. These are all average power level cube cards, so I don't see anything here that looks like it'll be missed. That's probably especially true since you're adding in a sweet new archetype that your group will hopefully be excited to try out. I like this change and I'm intrigued by the recent interest among cubers in general in supporting this strategy.
Made a few more changes to bring in the M21 cards and give Persist combo a bit more redundancy. In Cube Tutor drafts I was finding it didn't come together as often as I wanted. I'd love to know how it will perform at the table, but that has to wait because of my stupid government's stupid response to the stupid virus.
Finding cuts for the persist combo is difficult, and I don't envy you for trying to do it at your cube size.
I do have some questions, though:
I'm surprised by the Winds of Abandon cut - I have generally found it to be a much better removal spell than Unexpectedly Absent. Even if it can only hit creatures at sorcery speed, it answers them permanently and can be overloaded. Do you find Unexpectedly Absent to perform strongly?
Similarly, has Liliana's Triumph performed better for you than Go for the Throat, or is it just that the first edict effect is better than the fourth doom blade?
The cut was definitely between Winds and Unexpectantly Absent. Absent tends to be better in tempo and aggro and I feel bad whenever I have to cast Winds for 2, so Winds got the cut. I'm not in love with either one of those cards.
Triumph is staying for the reason you state. Plus, reanimator and various cheaty decks come together often, and the Edict gives those decks a better out against Inkwell and Emrakul. It can also take out a Sword of X & Y equipped creature sometimes.
Do you think you have a high enough density of low CMC green creatures for aggro?
Experiment One, Hexdrinker, Kessig Prowler, Pelt Collector, Wolfbitten Captive, Dryad Militant, Wild Nacatl, and Warden of the First Tree are only eight 1-drops, and there aren't many aggressive 2-drops either.
Do you think you have a high enough density of low CMC green creatures for aggro?
Experiment One, Hexdrinker, Kessig Prowler, Pelt Collector, Wolfbitten Captive, Dryad Militant, Wild Nacatl, and Warden of the First Tree are only eight 1-drops, and there aren't many aggressive 2-drops either.
Also when can we expect to see your ZNR picks?
Best wishes!
Thanks. I view green as just dabbling in aggro. I want to give my players the option of having their aggro decks be Xg (Red usually works best). I think 8 green aggro 1-drops is plenty. That is equal or greater than the number in the more aggro-centered colors. I'm also considering cutting some of the green 1-drops to give green aggro a more T1: Dork, T:2 3cc Beater identity. So, as part of the ZNR addition, I'm adding Kazandu Mammoth and Boreal Druid. I'm considering another 3cc beatstick but haven't made up my mind on that.
ZNR picks still in the works. This set is causing an upheaval in my cube that is probably even more extensive than the MH1/ELD sets.
Thanks for the response! And yea I'm not sure what to do about the MDFCs :\ they seem like they would really power up the cube but they take up so much space. I do like that idea of mana dork into 3 drop beater identity! I'll be looking forward to if you implement it.
Another massive cube update below! The Persist combo is leaving. With only 465 cards, there wasn't room for the consistency it needs to be draftable. It was very common to be unable to assemble all the needed pieces and be left with a semi-jank deck. It also usually required three colors, which created other difficulties as well. I'm adding Kiki-Jiki and two combo pieces, and all those cards are reasonable draft picks outside the combo. Additionally, after looking at a bunch of cubes, I've decided to expand my guild section by one card per guild. Several of the guild cards are placeholders until I get the cards I really want to run in those sections (Fallen Shinobi, Deathrite Shaman, Simic Signet). The last significant change here is moving green away from strict aggro and embracing a mana dork-into-3drop strategy. I think I could use another 3cc beater in green. Is Thrashing Brontodon good enough?
Re: Thrashing Brontodon, it’s always on the edge for us. It never feels great at anything it does, but when it’s in the Cube it makes most maindecks because of the multi-purpose use as good stats against red aggro and flexible answer for many problem permanents.
I think I still like Stormblood Berserker more than Kargan Intimidator. This is probably the best swap to test, though.
I'm also not really a fan of Gilded Goose. It tends to play a lot like a one mana Lotus Petal. If your goal is to turn two three drop, it does that job ok, but it's utility after that decreases by quite a bit. What are your thoughts on Elvish Reclaimer? I'm thinking of giving this guy a shot.
What cards/types of cards are you looking for to replace those multicolor additions that you're not happy with?
I think Brontodon is better in unpowered lists (especially if they're also without Talisman/Signets). You might find yourself lacking for targets and the bigger body is nice to have. In powered lists with full suites of rocks, the Manglehorn variants played much better, since you almost always have a target so you get both the body AND the shatter effect.
Reclaimer has been cool in helping support Depths, but Goose is a monster of a card, and I like it a lot more.
I like Faerie Conclave more than Fall From Favor, personally.
I like Faerie Conclave more than Fall From Favor, personally.
That was tough cut, but I couldn't find anything else I could spare to make the blue changes I wanted. I didn't even find room to test Sea Gate Stormcaller. Blue cuts are an ordeal. I'm open to other suggestions.
Thanks for all the input on Goose and Brontodon. I really want a great green 3-drop beatstick printed.
These cuts all look like improvements to me! Sad to see persist go but I think at your cube size it's probably the right choice... I feel like I struggle to find room for all the supporting cards at 540 sometimes!
Cheers,
rant
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Not a problem!
Thank you for the theory feedback, can't wait to get practice feedback when virus leaves!
Cheers,
rant
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Cheers,
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The cuts are savage and I may change my hybrid classifications to make some room.
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WWWWW
Gisela, the Broken Blade -> Luminous Broodmoth
Glory-Bound Initiate -> Safehold Elite as white's hybrid donation
UUUUU
Search for Azcanta -> Saheeli, Sublime Artificer as blue's hybrid donation
BBBBB
Drana, Liberator of Malakir -> Woe Strider
Diabolic Edict -> Heartless Act
Skinrender -> Murderous Redcap as black's hybrid donation
RRRRR
Flames of the Firebrand -> Goblin Bombardment
Hanweir Garrison -> Rakdos Cackler as red's hybrid donation
GGGGG
Plow Under -> Nissa, Who Shakes the World
Verdurous Gearhulk -> Craterhoof Behemoth
Master of the Wild Hunt -> Renata, Called to the Hunt
Yavimaya Elder -> Kitchen Finks as green's hybrid donation
WUBRG
Wrenn and Six -> Rhythm of the Wild
Reflector Mage -> Teferi, Time Raveler
Rakdos Cackler (black slot) -> Judith, the Scourge Diva
Kitchen Finks (green slot) -> Good-Fortune Unicorn
xxxxx
Lodestone Golem -> Blasting Station
Sword of War and Peace -> Altar of Dementia
Sword of Truth and Justice -> Ashnod's Altar (Could cut Reflecting Pool instead?)
All feedback very welcome. This is new territory for my cube and I'm unsure all of these are the right moves.
Cheers,
rant
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So, for instance, Cackler and Redcap count as 1 red and 1 black while Militant and Finks count as 1 green and 1 white card. These slots are treated normally as mono-color slots and are independent of whatever your quota is for gold cards.
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Winds of Abandon -> Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
Imposing Sovereign -> Seasoned Hallowblade
Man-O'-War -> Barrin, Tolarian Archmage
Go for the Throat -> Putrid Goblin
Heir of Falkenrath -> Blood Artist
Reflecting Pool -> Lesser Masticore
Cheers,
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I do have some questions, though:
I'm surprised by the Winds of Abandon cut - I have generally found it to be a much better removal spell than Unexpectedly Absent. Even if it can only hit creatures at sorcery speed, it answers them permanently and can be overloaded. Do you find Unexpectedly Absent to perform strongly?
Similarly, has Liliana's Triumph performed better for you than Go for the Throat, or is it just that the first edict effect is better than the fourth doom blade?
I agree with all the other cuts.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Triumph is staying for the reason you state. Plus, reanimator and various cheaty decks come together often, and the Edict gives those decks a better out against Inkwell and Emrakul. It can also take out a Sword of X & Y equipped creature sometimes.
Thanks for the input!
Cheers,
rant
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Experiment One, Hexdrinker, Kessig Prowler, Pelt Collector, Wolfbitten Captive, Dryad Militant, Wild Nacatl, and Warden of the First Tree are only eight 1-drops, and there aren't many aggressive 2-drops either.
Also when can we expect to see your ZNR picks?
Best wishes!
Thanks. I view green as just dabbling in aggro. I want to give my players the option of having their aggro decks be Xg (Red usually works best). I think 8 green aggro 1-drops is plenty. That is equal or greater than the number in the more aggro-centered colors. I'm also considering cutting some of the green 1-drops to give green aggro a more T1: Dork, T:2 3cc Beater identity. So, as part of the ZNR addition, I'm adding Kazandu Mammoth and Boreal Druid. I'm considering another 3cc beatstick but haven't made up my mind on that.
ZNR picks still in the works. This set is causing an upheaval in my cube that is probably even more extensive than the MH1/ELD sets.
Cheers.
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Constructive criticism welcome!
Anafenza Kin-Tree Spirit -> Luminarch Aspirant
Archangel Avacyn -> Emeria's Call
Serra the Benevolent -> Court of Grace
Seal of Cleansing -> Palace Jailer
Enclave Cryptologist -> Thieving Skydiver
Jace Beleren -> Fall From Favor
Faerie Conclave -> Hullbreacher
Putrid Goblin -> Opposition Agent
Liliana's Triumph -> Agadeem's Awakening
Blood Artist -> Skyclave Shade
Stormblood Berserker -> Kargan Intimidator
Rolling Earthquake -> Shatterskull Smashing
Arc Lightning -> Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Jackal Pup -> Zelaous Conscripts
Renata, Called to the Hunt -> Gilded Goose
Wolfbitten Captive -> Tireless Traker
Den Protector -> Bala Ged Recovery
Tooth and Nail -> Turntimber Symbiosis
Kessig Prowler -> Great Oak Guardian
Experiment Once -> Kazandu Mammoth
Lesser Masticore -> Wrenn and Six
Altar of Dementia -> Reflector Mage
Ashnod's Altar -> Fallen Shinobi
Safehold Elite -> Mirari's Wake
Good-Fortune Unicorn -> Unburial Rites
Blasting Station -> Deathrite Shaman
Dust Bowl -> Simic Signet
Judith, the Scourge Diva -> Boros Charm
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Re: Thrashing Brontodon, it’s always on the edge for us. It never feels great at anything it does, but when it’s in the Cube it makes most maindecks because of the multi-purpose use as good stats against red aggro and flexible answer for many problem permanents.
I'm also not really a fan of Gilded Goose. It tends to play a lot like a one mana Lotus Petal. If your goal is to turn two three drop, it does that job ok, but it's utility after that decreases by quite a bit. What are your thoughts on Elvish Reclaimer? I'm thinking of giving this guy a shot.
What cards/types of cards are you looking for to replace those multicolor additions that you're not happy with?
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Reclaimer has been cool in helping support Depths, but Goose is a monster of a card, and I like it a lot more.
I like Faerie Conclave more than Fall From Favor, personally.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I like Reclaimer but I don't think I have enough land stuff going on. It's sitting on the bench currently.
I need to acquire The Scarab God, Fiend Artisan, Hydroid Krasis, and Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath. I'm considering Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger. I'm not 100% sure on Unburial Rites; bringing Desolation Angel back is tempting.
That was tough cut, but I couldn't find anything else I could spare to make the blue changes I wanted. I didn't even find room to test Sea Gate Stormcaller. Blue cuts are an ordeal. I'm open to other suggestions.
Thanks for all the input on Goose and Brontodon. I really want a great green 3-drop beatstick printed.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 36+ Commander Decks: TAPPEDOUT
Skymarcher Aspirant -> Usher of the Fallen
Accorder Paladin -> Starnheim Unleashed
Shatter the Sky -> Doomskar
Lavaclaw Reaches -> Blightstep Pathway
Needle Spires -> Needleverge Pathway
I'd like to try to find room for Crawling Barrens. Any suggestions for cuts in colorless or lands?
Cheers,
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My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963